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Doping started much earlier, strychnine was used in the Ancient Olympics 776BC to 394AD, testosterone was used in the 1930s, Human growth hormone use started in the 1950s.
The teams would probably be very much against this but I would love to see these guys’ heart rates on screen while watching the race.
No amount of doping is going to help a rider with throttle control, braking technique, ability to scrub, and corner speed. It absolutely won't do anything for a rider's ability to find the fastest lines on an ever-changing MX track and be able to adjust to a track changing throughout the race and still being able to find the fastest lines. Fitness isn't what holds the regular top 5-15 place guys from being top 5 or top 3. It's technique, talent, skill, experience and what's between the ears. No PED on the market is going to be a magic pill to make top 5-15 guys be top 3.
A magic pill that removes fear may be beneficial for some riders!
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These responses just make me lol.
Sure, I guess being stronger, fitter and having a bigger ixegen supply won’t help one bit.
I don’t understand why they even train to begin with.
🤡
Stewie you really are missing the point.
You’re correct on the skill aspect.
If you give me PEDs and put me on the line with the pros, I won’t win.
But what happens if you choose two riders with the same skill, same level of fitness, give one a PED programme and the other goes naturally?
Do you still think there will be no advantage?
Well we’re all ears Matt.
Tell us how it is…
Tell us how we’re getting it wrong.
No need to hold anything back.
Why bring a rider’s name in to the discussion?
Why can’t this just be a discussion about doping in the sport?
Delete any post that mentions a riders name.
Totally missing the point.
Take Two riders.
With very similar, if not the same level of fitness and skill.
One goes on a EPO programme, the other stays natural.
Is there a benefit?
When EPO increases red blood cell production, oxygen supply to muscles is enhanced. This increases stamina – the ability to exert energy and remain active for a long period of time.
Hello, I am under the water
No, I didn't miss the point. I just don't believe one rider to the next will have the exact same level of skill and talent - no two riders have the exact same skill set. I believe the top 0.1% of riders at the Pro MX/SX level are differentiated by skill and talent over fitness, and no I don't believe having more fitness via an advantage from a pill will fix at talent deficiency with respect to throttle control, corner speed, line choice, race craft, braking, scrub skill, etc.
Can a magic pill take a regular LCQ rider and make him to the top 10-15? Ok, maybe - because the skills of the riders at that level are more common. But is Kevin Moranz going to take a magic pill and turn into Jett Lawrence? No, he's not. Good luck proving that.
If you are looking for an argument, look elsewhere. Nobody wins an argument. Both people walk away thinking they are right and the other person is wrong. I'm perfectly fine walking away from the discussion. You're not going to change my mind.
Chance Hymas showed last week that he can go as fast as Deegs.
But he couldn’t sustain it.
So what if Hymas was to use EPO? Would he have more stamina? Go for longer? Possibly win?
To say two riders have the exact same level of fitness is, as you say hugely unlikely. But they’re all extremely close once you get to the top tiers of a sport.
No one rider/trainer is getting it that wrong they’ll be that far off.
Happy not to argue. Interested to discuss..
The Kevin Moranz example is a bad one.
Moranz isn’t near to the skill level of Jett.
You need to compare two riders who are much closer in skill and fitness already.
“You won’t change my mind”
What the fuck is the point of having a discussion unless your willing to acknowledge something you might not have thought of, concede a good point, maybe adjust your viewpoint!?
Ok
Let’s compare two riders Webb and tomac. I think everyone would agree they have different skill sets but still manage to go about the same speed on a SX track over a 20 minute main. So while they might not have the same skill set it averages out pretty close over a 20 minute main. Your hypothesis is if one of them was on an EPO program that allowed them to get more oxygen to their muscles(and brain) it wouldn’t improve there stamina, decision making and focus? It wouldn’t influence the results at all?
👍🏾 good point , I was goona edit my post like 20 mins later cause i thought about it but i just left it be but yea u only goona see the difference if their both the same lvl playing field
Pit Row
Think about this, I’m going back about 10-15 years because it the most obvious. This is now out dated technology due to them blood testing too, but some continue because it’s cheap and will pass a piss test.
Secretion inhibitors in simple terms is used to mask anabol and testosterone by not letting the kidneys filter them out through urine, so it undetectable through a piss test.
The side effect of secretion inhibitors are the same symptoms of food poisoning, IBS, and stomachaches.
Go back as early as 2001 and look at the riders who continued to get mysterious stomach bugs, shit their pants during a race, missed a race in Vegas do to stomach problems, missed their race do to food poisoning etc etc.
The words blood testing is a huge flag too
Like I’ve said, there are tells, you just need to know where to look.
I would hope guys like Dungey, Canard, and Tomac wouldn't be doping. They all seem like stand up guys. The fact that John Tomac changed disciplines when he was racing makes me think Eli is clean, but I could be way off.
Someone like Deegan and Carmichael, they are so competitive I have no doubt that they would for the benefits they would receive. It's not like Deegan hasn't been caught cheating before. As the saying goes, "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying".
All I know is that @SteveUrchin is the fittest dude here and if anybody has a problem with that you can meet him in San Clemente and he'll prove it to you.
Is the SMX series affiliated with USADA still or any testing agency, and is it piss only or do they do blood too? I could see the top riders and teams taking advantage of blood doping to get an advantage at the end of a moto. There's a lot of money on the line.
Fact: If it didn’t help…nobody would dope.
They use a private testing lab called Aegis, they can test urine, blood, saliva, and hair.
What do you guys think of dudes hitting smelling salts on the starting line? I know its not illegal but it personally rubbed me the wrong way a tad bit. Didn't feel like a good look to see guys huffing it, on the line, on TV.
Even if PEDs only gave a 0.1% bump to physical performance, at the elite level that's huge. Also, how are people so dumb that they have never seen a pro rider get tired? if you can use PEDs to delay fatigue even by a tiny amount you have a better chance of winning. Speaking of winning, all this talk of PEDs not transforming 5th to 10th guys into winners misses the point! Maybe using PEDs is what's keeping them in 5th to 10th place, a place that means you can make a damn good living riding Moto.
Does that mean everyone is doping? No, but there's enough incentive that makes testing a logical thing to do.
The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Edit: Thinking more about the Eli/ Deegan comparison... it does mean something... Eli lives and trains at 6200 ft, Deegan lives at sea level. To be fair though, I have seen pics of Deegan training with an an apparatus over his face to impede his breathing, which would help with his red blood cell count, but I doubt is does anywhere near as much as living and training full time at high elevation.
Hockeys been doing it forever. It’s not like it’s cocaine.
Post a reply to: No Eli Talk - just fitness and why your're wrong