Do the bikes really make a difference?

MX7MX
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MX7MX
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 6:16pm
Take CP, Wilson, Barcia, Canard, Weimer, Rattray and put them all on say Yamaha's, say privateer yamaha bikes and put the rest of the field on the top of the class team bikes. Would you see any other bike win besides Yamaha?
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Rudeboy119
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Rudeboy119 8/26/2010 8:26pm
8/26/2010 8:26pm
several world champs have ridden those bikes for much less money then they could of gotten elsewhere. This tells me yes, the bikes are all that and a bag of peanuts!
jeffro503
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jeffro503 8/26/2010 8:42pm
8/26/2010 8:42pm
The PC bikes like the kawi's and Geico Honda bikes are badass for sure.......but you can buy every single part for those bikes.....it would just cost a shitload of money. And then.......you would have to know how set one of them up correctly.

All the guys messing around inside the top 15-20 ( more like the full gate ) have extremely hopped up 250's.......just not quite on par with the PC bikes.

It wouldn't matter though......the same guys would be winning no matter what they ride.

There are a lot of guys who barely crack the top 10-20 that have full blown PC bikes......but they lack the speed / skill / ability to go that fast as the top 1st -8th place guys.
hartebreak
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hartebreak 8/26/2010 8:47pm
8/26/2010 8:47pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2010 8:48pm
The bikes are definately bad ass but IMO its the small things that make a team like PC a champion factory. The ability to make the bike fit the rider, moving footpegs up 5mm, 1 off triple clamps with an offset that makes the rider feel comfortable. Special clutch levers, little bits of unobtanium parts here and there. I think its more than just the trick parts but more so the testing and handmaking and modifying existing parts and tweeking the bike in ways that an everyday Joe cannot. Even with a similar bike and buget I still doubt anyone could match what a high level team can do.
mag23
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mag23 8/26/2010 8:49pm
8/26/2010 8:49pm
jeffro503 wrote:
The PC bikes like the kawi's and Geico Honda bikes are badass for sure.......but you can buy every single part for those bikes.....it would just cost...
The PC bikes like the kawi's and Geico Honda bikes are badass for sure.......but you can buy every single part for those bikes.....it would just cost a shitload of money. And then.......you would have to know how set one of them up correctly.

All the guys messing around inside the top 15-20 ( more like the full gate ) have extremely hopped up 250's.......just not quite on par with the PC bikes.

It wouldn't matter though......the same guys would be winning no matter what they ride.

There are a lot of guys who barely crack the top 10-20 that have full blown PC bikes......but they lack the speed / skill / ability to go that fast as the top 1st -8th place guys.
I hear ya, but I'm thinkin no amount of money is going to get you CP's motor, or Canard's, or ............... I think we should ask Reed and Dungey if the bike really makes a difference. But, yeah, like you said, the best guys are gonna win, either way...

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lostboy819 8/26/2010 9:05pm
8/26/2010 9:05pm
I think you have to match the bike to the rider, only the guys like CP, Wilson, Barcia, Canard, Weimer, Rattray can ride them to the limit but if you take a mid pack rider I dont think it would make them a winner. They let Scott Champion ride a factory Yamaha and it made no diffrence for him.
blake-s
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blake-s 8/26/2010 9:19pm
8/26/2010 9:19pm
if everyone had the resources and time/money too test and try different set-ups on the bike to get it all dialed in, i doubt we would be seeing the same select few guys winning all the races.
rockcrawlerdude 8/26/2010 9:23pm
8/26/2010 9:23pm
i will say that james did lose some speed when he went to the yamaha... theres no denying that ....
blake-s
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blake-s 8/26/2010 9:24pm
8/26/2010 9:24pm
rockcrawlerdude wrote:
i will say that james did lose some speed when he went to the yamaha... theres no denying that ....
i think he lost the raw speed that he had because he had been on kawi's his entire career leading up to that point.
rockcrawlerdude 8/26/2010 9:55pm
8/26/2010 9:55pm
rockcrawlerdude wrote:
i will say that james did lose some speed when he went to the yamaha... theres no denying that ....
blake-s wrote:
i think he lost the raw speed that he had because he had been on kawi's his entire career leading up to that point.
i agree, his style of riding fit the kawasakis better... just like reeds fit the zukers better then the yamahas and perhaps the kawasakis did ...
MX Sports Medicine 8/26/2010 11:39pm
8/26/2010 11:39pm
rockcrawlerdude wrote:
i will say that james did lose some speed when he went to the yamaha... theres no denying that ....
blake-s wrote:
i think he lost the raw speed that he had because he had been on kawi's his entire career leading up to that point.
rockcrawlerdude wrote:
i agree, his style of riding fit the kawasakis better... just like reeds fit the zukers better then the yamahas and perhaps the kawasakis did ...
His style of riding fits a 2T better, WAY better.
rockcrawlerdude 8/26/2010 11:52pm
8/26/2010 11:52pm
blake-s wrote:
i think he lost the raw speed that he had because he had been on kawi's his entire career leading up to that point.
rockcrawlerdude wrote:
i agree, his style of riding fit the kawasakis better... just like reeds fit the zukers better then the yamahas and perhaps the kawasakis did ...
MX Sports Medicine wrote:
His style of riding fits a 2T better, WAY better.
Amen to that brother....
onenastynotch
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onenastynotch 8/27/2010 5:35am
8/27/2010 5:35am
jeffro503 wrote:
The PC bikes like the kawi's and Geico Honda bikes are badass for sure.......but you can buy every single part for those bikes.....it would just cost...
The PC bikes like the kawi's and Geico Honda bikes are badass for sure.......but you can buy every single part for those bikes.....it would just cost a shitload of money. And then.......you would have to know how set one of them up correctly.

All the guys messing around inside the top 15-20 ( more like the full gate ) have extremely hopped up 250's.......just not quite on par with the PC bikes.

It wouldn't matter though......the same guys would be winning no matter what they ride.

There are a lot of guys who barely crack the top 10-20 that have full blown PC bikes......but they lack the speed / skill / ability to go that fast as the top 1st -8th place guys.
mag23 wrote:
I hear ya, but I'm thinkin no amount of money is going to get you CP's motor, or Canard's, or ............... I think we should ask...
I hear ya, but I'm thinkin no amount of money is going to get you CP's motor, or Canard's, or ............... I think we should ask Reed and Dungey if the bike really makes a difference. But, yeah, like you said, the best guys are gonna win, either way...
pc does not sell their so called A motors ......u get the b motors which is most likely is last years or the year befores A motor geicos engines are changhed around after they get them back..they use pc as a starting point....
BikeGraphixKC 8/27/2010 5:46am
8/27/2010 5:46am
Its not always the Bike that makes all the difference. It's a package deal when you work with a team like one of the top ones. Being positive all the time, great bikes, great surroundings, nutritionist or trainer of some sort...you just have a lot more access to things that a privateer is being held back on because of money.

It really is a big dis-advantage and there are certain privateers out there, select ones, that with the package deal of one of those teams, could do just as much damage as anyone OR more. Because they don't grow up with it all in there hands.
JB 19
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JB 19 8/27/2010 5:48am
8/27/2010 5:48am
I think that the bike is more important than it used to be. The 4 strokes are capable of handling so good that bike setup is even more important. I think its because 2 strokes are rode best when the rear wheel is spinning......4 strokes wheel steered with the front wheel.

lucero10x
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lucero10x 8/27/2010 8:11am
8/27/2010 8:11am
Ask JH100 and little Goose if the bike/team makes a difference.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 8/27/2010 8:17am
8/27/2010 8:17am
onenastynotch wrote:
pc does not sell their so called A motors ......u get the b motors which is most likely is last years or the year befores A...
pc does not sell their so called A motors ......u get the b motors which is most likely is last years or the year befores A motor geicos engines are changhed around after they get them back..they use pc as a starting point....
You also can't buy that transmission PC runs in those bikes. But yes the bike can make a huge difference. In a Racer X interview with Alex Martin last year from his 1-off ride at Millville he said the Geico bike was worth nearly 2 seconds a lap over anything he could buy and put together himself. He proved it by racking up two top 10s that day. The very best riders still have a raw speed advantage, but a stock or privateer bike really beats the shit out of you.
Ing
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Ing 8/27/2010 8:38am
8/27/2010 8:38am
Same as it's always been 90% rider, 10% bike.
xnationalwrench 8/27/2010 8:46am
8/27/2010 8:46am
BikeGraphixKC wrote:
Its not always the Bike that makes all the difference. It's a package deal when you work with a team like one of the top ones...
Its not always the Bike that makes all the difference. It's a package deal when you work with a team like one of the top ones. Being positive all the time, great bikes, great surroundings, nutritionist or trainer of some sort...you just have a lot more access to things that a privateer is being held back on because of money.

It really is a big dis-advantage and there are certain privateers out there, select ones, that with the package deal of one of those teams, could do just as much damage as anyone OR more. Because they don't grow up with it all in there hands.
.
You are completely right. I have seen Marty Tripes back in the day win on a bike that was 20% slower and he was 20 pounds overweight. But that was then and in the now world it takes a complete package to get it done. But it still takes a RACER to twist the throttle and you can't have the best of everything and win without a RACER

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Huckster
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Huckster 8/27/2010 8:50am
8/27/2010 8:50am
its all about the testing and set up at that level. That is the advantage of the PC's, FC's, and factory teams. It basically boils down to $ and how much each can spend to make their individual rider comfortable and keep the bike fresh. I was told by a mechanic that the PC motors were 2 hr motors, meaning they were built with such tolerance to only be good for 2 hrs. I have no idea if that is true, but he worked on the circuit for another team. That takes $$$$. Think about the man hrs of labor put into one of those bikes in testing the motors and suspension, etc.....
jimmie
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jimmie 8/27/2010 8:58am
8/27/2010 8:58am
It's all about maintaining the correct air pressure in the tires Tongue

Seriously, in order (imho also) it boils down to, Rider / Suspension / Motor. I feel motors are all pretty equal, only difference may be operator preference what "type" of power,ie mid-range, top end etc.

Plus a million other variables!













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jimmie 8/27/2010 9:03am
8/27/2010 9:03am
xnationalwrench wrote:
. You are completely right. I have seen Marty Tripes back in the day win on a bike that was 20% slower and he was 20...
.
You are completely right. I have seen Marty Tripes back in the day win on a bike that was 20% slower and he was 20 pounds overweight. But that was then and in the now world it takes a complete package to get it done. But it still takes a RACER to twist the throttle and you can't have the best of everything and win without a RACER
Exactly, put any one of us on Dungeys ride and we might even ride slower. (speaking for myself)

I know that's an extreme example but accurate non the less.
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 8/27/2010 9:14am
8/27/2010 9:14am
heck JBS beat everyone except the GOAT on a smoker 250 against 450s !!!!

joe101uk
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joe101uk 8/27/2010 9:38am
8/27/2010 9:38am
Jerry Burgess has a theory that in every motorcycle race it's 80% rider and 20% bike. He knows what he's talking about.
Hman144
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Hman144 8/27/2010 9:47am
8/27/2010 9:47am
Of course it makes a difference.

A factory bike with inadequate set-up can make even one of the best riders of all time want to just quit.

True story. I seen it happen.

H
SteveS
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SteveS 8/27/2010 10:19am
8/27/2010 10:19am
James Stewart said it was all because of the bike....Whistling
mxb2
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mxb2 8/27/2010 11:26am
8/27/2010 11:26am
Ask nick wey, he is 12th place on ti-lube or factory kawy!every week
downandup
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downandup 8/27/2010 11:33am
8/27/2010 11:33am Edited Date/Time 8/27/2010 11:35am
The great riders win on any bike. Doesn't matter. Reed, Carmichael, McGrath, Bubba, all have won on recently on different bikes. Enough said. (if it's tricked out)

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