Rider Payout is Terrible - I know beating a deadhorse

4/15/2025 10:58am Edited Date/Time 4/15/2025 6:27pm
crt32 wrote:
We can't agree on what riders should make, but can we agree that the Riders should not have to pay entry fee or parking and they...

We can't agree on what riders should make, but can we agree that the Riders should not have to pay entry fee or parking and they should be able to sell merch/branded items in the pits? That would go along way. 

I just wish they would let them do this. It’s crazy when I go to a national Late Model/Sprint Car race, just about every driver in the top 20 has a small enclosed trailer that follows them to all the races just stocked full of T shirts, diecasts, etc.  Hell, even sometimes you can score Race Used body panels at the trailer if you catch them at the right time. 

The last big Late model race I went to cost me only $35 to get in the pits and get as close as I wanted to all the cars, crews, and rigs. I spent double what my ticket for Tampa SX cost me during intermission buying T shirts from all my favorite drivers. 

That T shirt money helps gets these guys driving $100k race cars to the next show, I couldn’t imagine what half that revenue would do for some of these guys going race to race in a van with a 450 with 100 hours on it. 

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inflammable
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4/15/2025 11:10am
crt32 wrote:
We can't agree on what riders should make, but can we agree that the Riders should not have to pay entry fee or parking and they...

We can't agree on what riders should make, but can we agree that the Riders should not have to pay entry fee or parking and they should be able to sell merch/branded items in the pits? That would go along way. 

Rickyisms wrote:
I just wish they would let them do this. It’s crazy when I go to a national Late Model/Sprint Car race, just about every driver in...

I just wish they would let them do this. It’s crazy when I go to a national Late Model/Sprint Car race, just about every driver in the top 20 has a small enclosed trailer that follows them to all the races just stocked full of T shirts, diecasts, etc.  Hell, even sometimes you can score Race Used body panels at the trailer if you catch them at the right time. 

The last big Late model race I went to cost me only $35 to get in the pits and get as close as I wanted to all the cars, crews, and rigs. I spent double what my ticket for Tampa SX cost me during intermission buying T shirts from all my favorite drivers. 

That T shirt money helps gets these guys driving $100k race cars to the next show, I couldn’t imagine what half that revenue would do for some of these guys going race to race in a van with a 450 with 100 hours on it. 

Could the privateers, or even the teams, pursue restraint of trade legal action against Feld?

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4/15/2025 11:11am Edited Date/Time 4/15/2025 11:11am

Could the privateers, or even the teams, pursue restraint of trade legal action against Feld?

What legal ground do you think they have to stand on?

inflammable
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4/15/2025 11:18am Edited Date/Time 4/15/2025 11:18am

Could the privateers, or even the teams, pursue restraint of trade legal action against Feld?

Rickyisms wrote:

What legal ground do you think they have to stand on?

Restraint of trade possibly? Other than that not sure, maybe one of our legal experts will see the comment and weigh in 🙂

I just think there is something there from a legal action standpoint that could be pursued, as the privateers are neither employees of Feld, or contractors for Feld. 

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The Shop

4/15/2025 2:12pm
UpTiTe wrote:

I said should be, not they are. Reading comprehension is a good thing. 

Chiz makes a good chunk of money, he’s far from broke. 

Doesn't he have a full time job though? I heard he worked all week and then travelled to SX on the weekends.

Chiz? No. He is a full time rider for his team. He test most of their stuff. 

In the off season he’s a real estate guy and flips and rents houses, and has done very well with it. 

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ktm129
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4/15/2025 2:18pm

I know its not a sanctioned event, but i saw that Glen Helen Raceway is putting up a $100,000 cash pro purse at something called Motofest in May the weekend in between Supercross and outdoors. These privateers should be all over this since most of the top pros probably won't be there. https://www.glenhelen.com/motofest

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Herr Lich
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4/15/2025 3:34pm
UpTiTe wrote:

The fact is, if you make the main every week, you should be pulling a quarter mill a year. 

I agree or close to 250k . 100k now for a traveling job is nothing now.  It’s not the 90,s 25.99 a night hotels. It’s 25...

I agree or close to 250k . 100k now for a traveling job is nothing now.  It’s not the 90,s 25.99 a night hotels. It’s 25 bucks to shower at a s scuzzy truck stop. In 1983 u could make 250k as a 15 yr old playing bball.  I know quite a few that played in Europe & in the Middle East now . I just checked Honda parts some almost doubled & some r very cheap for my 04 cr125 DBP Double Boost Port it u forgot. Haha .  In 2015 a millionaire was considered someone with not 1 mil but 2.4 mil .  A mistake that made a d1 bball team can earn more than a guy racing in a stadium.  I,m a IC also & a former union buisness agent negotiated with all the unions.  It’s just not right a guy having to cover travel expenses to promote someone’s buisness.  I usually get my gas reimbursed driving to Chicago 4 a new job. If I get stiffed then the pay checks r usually not right . Like way off or not paid or paying 4 tolls 6 weeks after I quit. 

Had to read this like 3 times to even start to understand what you're trying to say...

Here's a summary. Thanks Grok.

The rant expresses frustration about the rising cost of living and stagnant wages, particularly for traveling jobs. The speaker notes that $100k today is insufficient compared to the past, citing high costs like $25 for a truck stop shower and expensive hotel rates. They compare this to 1983, when a 15-year-old could earn $250k playing basketball, and mention modern athletes earning more in Europe or the Middle East. The rant also touches on fluctuating Honda parts prices, the redefined threshold for being a millionaire (from $1M to $2.4M by 2015), and disparities in earnings (e.g., a college basketball player outearning a stadium racer). As an independent contractor and former union business agent, the speaker is frustrated by having to cover travel expenses for work, unreliable reimbursements (e.g., gas or tolls), and issues like incorrect or delayed paychecks, especially after quitting a job.
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Herr Lich
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4/15/2025 3:37pm
This is an interesting point of view. Could you elaborate please?I expected the consensus to be wanting to see the best and fastest. Do you feel...

This is an interesting point of view. Could you elaborate please?

I expected the consensus to be wanting to see the best and fastest. Do you feel the closer pace of the privateers would lead to better racing?

UpTiTe wrote:

Yes, way better. Plus some of those guys are willing to smash to move up. It would be great racing. 

Go watch arenacross, much better racing. 

Hell yeah I,m a racing fan I want to see racing .  Maybe a special class for factory riders only to keep the fan boys happy...

Hell yeah I,m a racing fan I want to see racing .  Maybe a special class for factory riders only to keep the fan boys happy.  And a privateer class for the racing fans , no 450,s allowed to make the racing better.  I watched a few of these 10-12 yr old Sleepy hollow big 125 races . I think the money was quite a bit higher then.  Every rider was at 100% every inch of the track.  Probably the funniest pre gate drops I ever saw . Jimmy D says it’s gonna b like this he uses a 125 screaming sound & hands to . Then says I,ll take those big goofy legs out . Haha The other  rider says no it’s gonna be like this,etc.  some shirtless fat kid laughs . IMG 2954 0.png?VersionId=d

The text expresses enthusiasm for motorcycle racing and suggests creating two racing classes: one for factory riders to please casual fans and another for privateers (independent riders) without 450cc bikes to enhance racing quality. The author reminisces about exciting 125cc races at Sleepy Hollow involving 10-12-year-olds, noting high prize money and intense competition. They describe a humorous pre-race exchange where riders, including someone named Jimmy D, trash-talked and mimicked bike sounds, with a bystander kid laughing.
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JustMX
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4/15/2025 3:50pm
I agree or close to 250k . 100k now for a traveling job is nothing now.  It’s not the 90,s 25.99 a night hotels. It’s 25...

I agree or close to 250k . 100k now for a traveling job is nothing now.  It’s not the 90,s 25.99 a night hotels. It’s 25 bucks to shower at a s scuzzy truck stop. In 1983 u could make 250k as a 15 yr old playing bball.  I know quite a few that played in Europe & in the Middle East now . I just checked Honda parts some almost doubled & some r very cheap for my 04 cr125 DBP Double Boost Port it u forgot. Haha .  In 2015 a millionaire was considered someone with not 1 mil but 2.4 mil .  A mistake that made a d1 bball team can earn more than a guy racing in a stadium.  I,m a IC also & a former union buisness agent negotiated with all the unions.  It’s just not right a guy having to cover travel expenses to promote someone’s buisness.  I usually get my gas reimbursed driving to Chicago 4 a new job. If I get stiffed then the pay checks r usually not right . Like way off or not paid or paying 4 tolls 6 weeks after I quit. 

Had to read this like 3 times to even start to understand what you're trying to say...

Herr Lich wrote:
Here's a summary. Thanks Grok.The rant expresses frustration about the rising cost of living and stagnant wages, particularly for traveling jobs. The speaker notes that $100k...

Here's a summary. Thanks Grok.

The rant expresses frustration about the rising cost of living and stagnant wages, particularly for traveling jobs. The speaker notes that $100k today is insufficient compared to the past, citing high costs like $25 for a truck stop shower and expensive hotel rates. They compare this to 1983, when a 15-year-old could earn $250k playing basketball, and mention modern athletes earning more in Europe or the Middle East. The rant also touches on fluctuating Honda parts prices, the redefined threshold for being a millionaire (from $1M to $2.4M by 2015), and disparities in earnings (e.g., a college basketball player outearning a stadium racer). As an independent contractor and former union business agent, the speaker is frustrated by having to cover travel expenses for work, unreliable reimbursements (e.g., gas or tolls), and issues like incorrect or delayed paychecks, especially after quitting a job.

holy shit

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JustMX
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4/15/2025 3:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2025 3:51pm
UpTiTe wrote:

Yes, way better. Plus some of those guys are willing to smash to move up. It would be great racing. 

Go watch arenacross, much better racing. 

Hell yeah I,m a racing fan I want to see racing .  Maybe a special class for factory riders only to keep the fan boys happy...

Hell yeah I,m a racing fan I want to see racing .  Maybe a special class for factory riders only to keep the fan boys happy.  And a privateer class for the racing fans , no 450,s allowed to make the racing better.  I watched a few of these 10-12 yr old Sleepy hollow big 125 races . I think the money was quite a bit higher then.  Every rider was at 100% every inch of the track.  Probably the funniest pre gate drops I ever saw . Jimmy D says it’s gonna b like this he uses a 125 screaming sound & hands to . Then says I,ll take those big goofy legs out . Haha The other  rider says no it’s gonna be like this,etc.  some shirtless fat kid laughs . IMG 2954 0.png?VersionId=d

Herr Lich wrote:
The text expresses enthusiasm for motorcycle racing and suggests creating two racing classes: one for factory riders to please casual fans and another for privateers (independent...
The text expresses enthusiasm for motorcycle racing and suggests creating two racing classes: one for factory riders to please casual fans and another for privateers (independent riders) without 450cc bikes to enhance racing quality. The author reminisces about exciting 125cc races at Sleepy Hollow involving 10-12-year-olds, noting high prize money and intense competition. They describe a humorous pre-race exchange where riders, including someone named Jimmy D, trash-talked and mimicked bike sounds, with a bystander kid laughing.

it is like a whole new world has opened up....................

maybe we should not fear AI

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inflammable
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4/15/2025 4:09pm

Vital's own Voynich manuscript, deciphered by AI.....

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8tensolutions
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4/15/2025 6:25pm

If you haven't, everyone should listen to the Phil interview on Pulp this week.  Someone who actually did this and had a long career in moto chimes in about Hicks because of social posts, but privateers in general.

Bottom line if you're too lazy to listen......nobody owes them shit and they should ride faster or add value another way so someone decides to pay them.  Basically like any other job.

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Spoonguy
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4/16/2025 4:45am

Feld can afford to pay more narrative is lame. We all could afford to pay more. More to our doctors, plumbers, dentists, lawyers, car dealers, carpenters, plumbers, colleges, our kid's allowance on and on. None of us get a bill from someone and states it is not enough and volunteers more. I love how so many in this nation spew platitudes about somebody wealthier than them not being "fair", and at the same time many never exceed the old 15% tip for the single mom that brings them lunch at the diner. Everyone on here is riding $10K dirt bikes and not starving. If you make $30K a year, you are in the top 1% of wage earners in the world. Feld pays as much as they do because that is what they have to pay, just like nobody is giving the kid who serves them a McDonalds an extra $20. Feld doesn't have to, so they don't.

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4/16/2025 6:50am
UpTiTe wrote:

Yes, way better. Plus some of those guys are willing to smash to move up. It would be great racing. 

Go watch arenacross, much better racing. 

Hell yeah I,m a racing fan I want to see racing .  Maybe a special class for factory riders only to keep the fan boys happy...

Hell yeah I,m a racing fan I want to see racing .  Maybe a special class for factory riders only to keep the fan boys happy.  And a privateer class for the racing fans , no 450,s allowed to make the racing better.  I watched a few of these 10-12 yr old Sleepy hollow big 125 races . I think the money was quite a bit higher then.  Every rider was at 100% every inch of the track.  Probably the funniest pre gate drops I ever saw . Jimmy D says it’s gonna b like this he uses a 125 screaming sound & hands to . Then says I,ll take those big goofy legs out . Haha The other  rider says no it’s gonna be like this,etc.  some shirtless fat kid laughs . IMG 2954 0.png?VersionId=d

Herr Lich wrote:
The text expresses enthusiasm for motorcycle racing and suggests creating two racing classes: one for factory riders to please casual fans and another for privateers (independent...
The text expresses enthusiasm for motorcycle racing and suggests creating two racing classes: one for factory riders to please casual fans and another for privateers (independent riders) without 450cc bikes to enhance racing quality. The author reminisces about exciting 125cc races at Sleepy Hollow involving 10-12-year-olds, noting high prize money and intense competition. They describe a humorous pre-race exchange where riders, including someone named Jimmy D, trash-talked and mimicked bike sounds, with a bystander kid laughing.

Thank you kind sir

Crutcher
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4/16/2025 8:40am
IMG 8638

 

Here's a photo from 2021, the season ender of (then) Hoosier Tire Arenacross (now GT Arenacross) inside the halls of the Tunica Expo center before opening ceremonies.

At left, 682 Izaih Clark, 68 Branden Walther, myself on 37, and Hicks at right on 1.

This was the first year I competed in the full Hoosier series, and I kept track of the top guys income every week. Because this was on the heels of covid, and the industry was at an all time high, sponsorship money was really easy to find. I say this because as a guy coming back to AX with guaranteed midpack results, I generated about $12k in sponsorship cash before the season started-- by committing to being the best marketing agent in our series. I also worked off my entry fees by managing the series social media, did pre-race trackside reporting, wrote weekly recaps and emails for the series, and a litany of other tasks. Though I never finished high enough to get contingency, with sponsorship cash I made a hair under $20,000 racing a regional Arenacross series with minimal expenses.

The other riders in this photo made this much cash in the same season:
Clark - $5,350
Walther - $5,050
Hicks - $14,725

After it was over on Saturday night and we're all collecting our end of season bonuses and nightly cash, it was obvious amongst the racers who was the big swinging dick in the room- and it was not the guy who just clinched the series for a 3rd time in a row.

Is this post about me? No. It's about privateers who lean on racing for their money vs. those who brand for their money. Hicks, who is a friend of mine and I will forever be a fan of, is one of the most naturally talented motorcycle riders I've ever seen. I expect him to go the way of Durham, Brown, etc and leave Supercross behind and be an exhibition racer in a global market and stick to the hills and the pit bikes during the week.

Racing is gnarly, it's nasty, it takes insane dedication. But at the end of the day, it's a form of entertainment. In our current cycle - the top entertainers are not racers, but are content creators/vloggers etc, it's highly fragmented from authority, and they're absolutely murdering with income.

Hicks post, I believe, is not a complaint, but is a pull-the-curtain insight for what it's like to be a pro racer in the midfield of an SX main event. While being a guy that can make 5-10x doing other racing-- has every right to scratch his head and think "well, isn't this odd?"

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MXMattii
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4/16/2025 10:06am
I agree - the main need for Supercross is better/closer racing. Didn't the AMA try something in the 80s that produced more winners, but had the top...

I agree - the main need for Supercross is better/closer racing. 

Didn't the AMA try something in the 80s that produced more winners, but had the top riders complaining about holeshot to win tracks?

MXMattii wrote:
A "level field" makes sport also interesting, combine this with some show elements and in fact you've the receipt of what the ADAC supercross races are...

A "level field" makes sport also interesting, combine this with some show elements and in fact you've the receipt of what the ADAC supercross races are doing. They don't spend big money on the biggest names like Paris. But the local teams sign decent riders and that creates for most of the times an interesting start field and that results in that they're sold out for three days!

I'd like to see some ADAC supercross. Can you recommend any YouTube links please?

It are more arenacross like tracks. But this is a link.

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overdrive09
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4/20/2025 2:22pm

After reading about Jerry Robins weekend I can't help but think that the privateers don't make enough.  They are laying it all on the line every weekend and for what.......  One small mistake away from career ending and life ending injury.  

 

I pray Jerry makes a full recovery but its a small reminder of what these guys put on the line so someone other than them can make big money.

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overdrive09
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4/22/2025 6:27pm
After reading about Jerry Robins weekend I can't help but think that the privateers don't make enough.  They are laying it all on the line every...

After reading about Jerry Robins weekend I can't help but think that the privateers don't make enough.  They are laying it all on the line every weekend and for what.......  One small mistake away from career ending and life ending injury.  

 

I pray Jerry makes a full recovery but its a small reminder of what these guys put on the line so someone other than them can make big money.

You want to down vote me but you won't put your career on the line for such crappy pay. Jerry and the privateers deserve more, Feld can help these guys who put their lives on the line.  Again I pray Jerry makes a full recovery but  its not worth what they pay!!! 

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5/4/2025 11:33pm
stewie94 wrote:
this needs to be a bigger topic in this sport imo! ima say the same thing I say in majority of my UFC podcast vids...

this needs to be a bigger topic in this sport imo! ima say the same thing I say in majority of my UFC podcast vids , how in the hell ( in this case ) a popular Motorsport organization / or  promoter ( FELD) can’t seem to pay enuff money to the teams & riders of the series of wht they are actually worth & valued 

What value does Michael Hicks bring to the show? Not trying to be a dick, but like what dollar amount would you put on him bringing...

What value does Michael Hicks bring to the show? Not trying to be a dick, but like what dollar amount would you put on him bringing in in terms of value?

he brings as much value as all the other non factory riders without them there wouldnt be any races its hard to only have 12 riders at any race ..so i would say they all have value at a supercross race..try selling tickets to a 12 rider per class show no matter who the riders are it wouldnt work 

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Tyler D
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5/4/2025 11:40pm

If they don't pay something for the spot the next generation's Michael hicks will be slower, not faster than current Michael hicks. Before you know it, we've got India-level supercross on our hands because all the talented people are doing something else with their time. They have to keep raising the level. Ktm and yamaha can't field 2/3rds of the gate forever. Energy drinks can't fund half the sport forever. 

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Mcflurry98
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5/5/2025 3:34am

The upper levels of the stadiums are pretty bare at most races these days. Riders need to create more demand for fans to pay to put their butts in those seats if they want the promoter to pay more money. Does it suck? Maybe. But if we take our blinders off, I think most could reasonably agree that the riders purse is in line with the market. 

This is a niche sport. 90% of the american population doesn't even know about it. About 2% even cares about it. You can't compare it to any other professional sport because the market is smaller, and as a result, so is the revenue. 

The top dudes make millions and are paid in such by the manufacturers to put their brands on the box. Everyone else gets the leftovers. It's no different from any other career path. 

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5/5/2025 3:47am

It's a bummer that the riders don't get paid enough.

In the 1980's (in South Africa) I'd make enough money from a 3rd place finish at National level to cover hotel, food, travel etc for the weekend and still have a little change. 

In the 1990's they got cheap on us and started handing out plastic trophies.

Nowadays in SA a win at National level 450 gets you $250.00. (R5000.00) It's a fucking shame.

Risking your neck on a SX track is no effing joke and it's a sin what the guys get as payout.

I really hope this changes. 

PS. FELD or whowever it is should at least cover the cost of ALL INJURIES that happen during a SX event.

With that said, I pray for Jerry and all the other guys that have been hurt. Some of these guys face a life long challenge health and monetary wise. 

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Beagle
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5/23/2025 3:19pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2025 11:19pm

The guy funds his SX habit by racing for a paycheck in other series.

5/23/2025 3:27pm
stewie94 wrote:
fuck no , bruh these boys need to be touching at least a mill , while Eli , Jett etc… need to get way more then...

fuck no , bruh these boys need to be touching at least a mill , while Eli , Jett etc… need to get way more then wht they getting now 

Kevin852 wrote:
I think what LungButter may be alluding to is that there is not enough money in the sport to support that pay structure. i mean if you...

I think what LungButter may be alluding to is that there is not enough money in the sport to support that pay structure. 

i mean if you have 6 top tier guys that is 100 million, then another 10 guys at 10 million each, then the 17-22 guys totaling say 10 million. So somehow you are going to fund 200+ million ( and we have not talked about what we will do with the guys who this post is about so another 10-15 million to spread out to them perhaps?). 

So where is Feld going to generate 20+ million after expenses to pay these salaries? 

I agree Feld show pay a bit more to the guys attempting to qualify. The problem is if Hicks doesn't show up the show goes on. Hell, we are missing about half of the top of the field and the show goes on. 

 

stewie94 wrote:
which is why I said ima do further research to see wht FELD is actually worth then I’ll go from there if my statements & analysis...

which is why I said ima do further research to see wht FELD is actually worth then I’ll go from there if my statements & analysis is wrong or right on par ,  but this my standpoint 

You can’t decide based on what FELD is worth- they have many things making them money. 

You need to look at what SX/MX is worth. 

FELD won’t make money from one thing to go subsidise another that’s not making enough to cover itself. 

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