Pro ATV's faster than Pro bikes at redbud!

hoopmx
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hoopmx 8/3/2010 6:11am
8/3/2010 6:11am
If you've never watched a pro atv national in person, you should. It's pretty gnarly. I've never been a quad fan, grew up hating them my whole life. This year I got hired to shoot and edit some of the ATVision web videos from the ATV nationals, so I've gotten to see them up close and personal and meet some of the riders and it definitely changed my perspective.
Paul-Africa 8/3/2010 6:45am
8/3/2010 6:45am
Let the quad riders do a moto after the last 450 bike moto, and let the bike riders do a moto after the last quad 450 moto.

I think the results will differ slightly.
Adam43
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Adam43 8/3/2010 6:59am
8/3/2010 6:59am
I am impressed by the lap times. The riders are awesome. But there is no way any of them could beat anyone in the National field on an identically prepared track on the same day. I think even most of the quad racers themselves could admit that.
bt260
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bt260 8/3/2010 7:07am
8/3/2010 7:07am
That You Tube link to the 'Dilla ATV race is the answer to this whole argument. I've been to every pro bike race at Unadilla since 1988, never once have i seen that track that smooth, not even by the end of the first practice. It's perfectly clear to anyone wiling to pay attention that the track at the ATV race is MUCH smoother and thus faster than it is at a bike race. Those guys peel it, I wouldn't jump that shit on my lawn mower, so don't get me wrong, but you're definitely comparing apples to oranges on this one.

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TerryB
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TerryB 8/3/2010 7:28am
8/3/2010 7:28am
Paul-Africa wrote:
Let the quad riders do a moto after the last 450 bike moto, and let the bike riders do a moto after the last quad 450...
Let the quad riders do a moto after the last 450 bike moto, and let the bike riders do a moto after the last quad 450 moto.

I think the results will differ slightly.
That right there is the only solution.

We have had a couple practice tracks where bikes and quads ran together. They are faster in different areas. Obviously quads are faster on flat turns, but can be faster in lower speed areas of real deep sand or mud. Bikes are pretty much faster EVERYWHERE else. The quads tend to smooth out ruts, and flatten the turns, (bad for bikes) except in real soft areas where they kind of scoop them out and turn them into big SX style bowl turns, that a bike can go around very fast.

The only "bike-made" obstacle that really slows down the quads at all were rutted jump faces.

In my experience bike riders have a much wider/deeper set of skills than quadtards who were raised riding atv's and don't ride bikes.

TerryB
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TerryB 8/3/2010 7:34am
8/3/2010 7:34am
bt260 wrote:
That You Tube link to the 'Dilla ATV race is the answer to this whole argument. I've been to every pro bike race at Unadilla since...
That You Tube link to the 'Dilla ATV race is the answer to this whole argument. I've been to every pro bike race at Unadilla since 1988, never once have i seen that track that smooth, not even by the end of the first practice. It's perfectly clear to anyone wiling to pay attention that the track at the ATV race is MUCH smoother and thus faster than it is at a bike race. Those guys peel it, I wouldn't jump that shit on my lawn mower, so don't get me wrong, but you're definitely comparing apples to oranges on this one.
Truth. This is settled.













Bring in the bears...
Blake
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Blake 8/3/2010 8:06am
8/3/2010 8:06am
slowvet wrote:
Formula 1 cars are faster than moto gp bikes also. Two entirely diferent disciplines between 2 wheels and 4.
This I can understand, but not quads vs dirt bikes.

You could ask Denton, or any pro ATV guy crossover that everything is harder to do on the quad.

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offspring22 8/3/2010 8:55am
8/3/2010 8:55am
I think that ATV Motocross is one of the last pure racing disciplines in the world. The racing is great, the people are great. I thought that the first turn of a 450 motorcycle national was crazy...then I watched the start of a 450 quad race. And to watch guys like Josh Creamer, Dustin Wimmer, or Chad Weinen ride quads is amazing.

Personally, I would love to see a racing weekend with both quads and bikes.
Tbteam
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Tbteam 8/3/2010 8:59am
8/3/2010 8:59am
Kind of like the difference between stand up jet ski racing and sit down (couch) racing. One is fun and requires skill (like mx), the other requires that you have a pulse and can steer a big overweight pig (like 4 wheelers).
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jeffro503 8/3/2010 9:01am
8/3/2010 9:01am
MX45 wrote:
atv's have been known to run faster lap times on an identically prepped track. That doesnt mean it breaks in the same. Here's unadilla video from...
atv's have been known to run faster lap times on an identically prepped track. That doesnt mean it breaks in the same.

Here's unadilla video from the atv national. It does looks broken in pretty smooth. Same for Steel City and Millville. There's usually one main smooth line through every corner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ-ZtaZDCFk

Redbud video will be up in 2 days. Judge the track then.
WOW.....I have never seen Dilla that smooth before!

BTW.....I don't hate ATV riders....if that's your thing , then good for you. But i don't care for riding on a track with them at all. Every damn corner is like what you see on a speedway roundy-round track. It takes all the technique out of an MX track with no ruts , corners blown out , no braking bumps ( very small anyways ).

That video of the ATV national on youtube is pretty cool to watch , and it shows these guys are hauling butt , but that track is like pavement.

Also....yeah , it's apples to oranges .....I don't think comparing laps times against the two is even possible.
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Torco1 8/3/2010 9:03am
8/3/2010 9:03am
munsch121
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munsch121 8/3/2010 9:06am
8/3/2010 9:06am Edited Date/Time 8/3/2010 9:12am
I love this thread, can we nail it to the top ?



You CANNOT compare ATVs and Bikes int he same manor as Formula one and the GP bikes.....are the formula one cars running the same engines as the Bikes ?? ...thought so.



You cant blame it on the track either, if the bikes were running the quad track, sure. If the quads were running the Bike track, sure but if the bikes were running the "smooth" atv track bikers would be blaming it on being too slick and having no berms, just like at the local track......its as simple as the fastest guy on a quad at red bud was faster than the fastest bike guy was WHILE carrying around 200 extra pounds and having to worry about twice the track....if you cant give a guy credit for that !!!! then look up denial in the dictionary.



panic revver 8/3/2010 9:14am
8/3/2010 9:14am Edited Date/Time 8/3/2010 9:15am
MX45 wrote:
atv's have been known to run faster lap times on an identically prepped track. That doesnt mean it breaks in the same. Here's unadilla video from...
atv's have been known to run faster lap times on an identically prepped track. That doesnt mean it breaks in the same.

Here's unadilla video from the atv national. It does looks broken in pretty smooth. Same for Steel City and Millville. There's usually one main smooth line through every corner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ-ZtaZDCFk

Redbud video will be up in 2 days. Judge the track then.
jeffro503 wrote:
WOW.....I have never seen Dilla that smooth before! BTW.....I don't hate ATV riders....if that's your thing , then good for you. But i don't care for...
WOW.....I have never seen Dilla that smooth before!

BTW.....I don't hate ATV riders....if that's your thing , then good for you. But i don't care for riding on a track with them at all. Every damn corner is like what you see on a speedway roundy-round track. It takes all the technique out of an MX track with no ruts , corners blown out , no braking bumps ( very small anyways ).

That video of the ATV national on youtube is pretty cool to watch , and it shows these guys are hauling butt , but that track is like pavement.

Also....yeah , it's apples to oranges .....I don't think comparing laps times against the two is even possible.
I actually watched that whole vid and if ANYONE thinks that is rough then you don't ride MX. typical lean and twist the throttle quad shit.
Void Main
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Void Main 8/3/2010 9:17am
8/3/2010 9:17am
Are we talking about 2T motorbikes or 4T motorbikes?
jpracer931
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jpracer931 8/3/2010 9:45am
8/3/2010 9:45am
just because the same yellow stakes were in the ground does not mean it was the same track,same lay out but not the same jumps,bumps etc...
uk125250
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uk125250 8/3/2010 10:37am
8/3/2010 10:37am
I'm in no way a fan of quads, but that is very impressive. I would have never thought in a million years something like that would happen. Anybody that can ride a quad that fast is just as impressive as any mxer.
crf250pilot
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crf250pilot 8/3/2010 10:45am
8/3/2010 10:45am
Just curious, but do the quad pros run two 30min+2 motos also.
munsch121
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munsch121 8/3/2010 10:57am
8/3/2010 10:57am
crf250pilot wrote:
Just curious, but do the quad pros run two 30min+2 motos also.
No they run 20 +2 .....just out of my own curiosity how many riders out there comparing what it is like to ride both have ever raced both ATVs and Bikes ??

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FlaNard
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FlaNard 8/3/2010 11:41am
8/3/2010 11:41am
bt260 wrote:
That You Tube link to the 'Dilla ATV race is the answer to this whole argument. I've been to every pro bike race at Unadilla since...
That You Tube link to the 'Dilla ATV race is the answer to this whole argument. I've been to every pro bike race at Unadilla since 1988, never once have i seen that track that smooth, not even by the end of the first practice. It's perfectly clear to anyone wiling to pay attention that the track at the ATV race is MUCH smoother and thus faster than it is at a bike race. Those guys peel it, I wouldn't jump that shit on my lawn mower, so don't get me wrong, but you're definitely comparing apples to oranges on this one.
Agreed.
Cody24
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Cody24 8/3/2010 11:41am
8/3/2010 11:41am
jeffro503 wrote:
Factory Motorsports......sorry , you are right. I get the two confused some times. Ernie Valasquez ( << spelling??) has my white YZ450F sitting in the back right now with my name on it. I hope to be able to pick it up sometime this week or this weekend at the latest.

I haven't been to Albany since 04' I think. I got hurt pretty bad in 05' , rode a little bit after that , but left the track and the sport in April of 06'......I haven't been on a bike since then. So it's been close to about 4-1/2 years off. I don't know about racing much any more , just really miss the riding.

I'll try to make it down to Albany before this season is up for a few practice days. They still have them on Wednesdays?
Yeah I think thats the right spelling actually haha Ernie is the man! But yeah Albany still has wednesday night practice from 3 to dark weather permitting. Its a lot of fun to go down and just put in some motos. Lots of track time and the weather has been awesome the past couple months. I would highly recommend heading down there before the fall.
771
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771 8/3/2010 12:16pm
8/3/2010 12:16pm
They say the hardest part about being gay is telling your parents you race quads.
Nutty C
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Nutty C 8/3/2010 12:33pm
8/3/2010 12:33pm
Sorry Kenetic you got the wrong site you should post this on www. motorized junk on four wheels.com . A f- 18 hornet would go around that track faster than both.
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Torco1 8/3/2010 1:12pm
8/3/2010 1:12pm
worcsracer808
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worcsracer808 8/3/2010 2:07pm
8/3/2010 2:07pm
At the pro level they are gnarly dudes, and the WORCS pro quads run 2 hours just like the bikes. It gets super rough believe me. If you watch the Lake Havasu WORCS fastest 5 minutes from the Bikes then from the Quads you'll laugh at how smooth and not rough the bike track is and how the quads had gnarly deep whoops throughout the whole course, granted it is a sand track and the WORCS quads run bigger tires then the AMA guys
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troublebros 8/3/2010 2:08pm
8/3/2010 2:08pm
Torco1 wrote:
That's awsome, check the mullet!
Torco1
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Torco1 8/3/2010 2:43pm
8/3/2010 2:43pm
troublebros wrote:
That's awsome, check the mullet!
The guy riding never even lost his cigarette.
FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 8/3/2010 2:48pm
8/3/2010 2:48pm Edited Date/Time 8/3/2010 2:49pm
Ive hated quads every since they blew out my favorite rut in this one corner this one time like 10 years ago.
FHKRacingZ
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FHKRacingZ 8/3/2010 4:15pm
8/3/2010 4:15pm
I race Pro-Am Production for atvs I am telling you honestly Harve Whipple ( the AMA Pro Official ) told us we ran the identical track the bikes ran, jumps and everything. Sure the track may of shaped up different for each but it was the same.

And to be honest we ran it about 10 feet further than the bikes. After that knarly off camber corner where rattray crashed the bikes took an immediate left, while us quads went up to the next tree before turning back down. Just to clarify that.

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