Alpinestars medic team doesnt know what theyre doing and is dangerous

2/2/2025 11:10am
1911 wrote:

Excellent, the Vital Doctors have showed up. 🤡

The device is used to keep your head still, my girlfriend is an ER nurse and immediately called it out. The photos clearly show it fitting...

The device is used to keep your head still, my girlfriend is an ER nurse and immediately called it out. The photos clearly show it fitting way too loose and him moving his head around, and don't say its standard procedure to put it on, when we have seen many many other riders being carted off aren't wearing one. If you suspect someone may have a chance of having a neck injury, put the dam thing on correctly. Not just "here's your frickin neck collar lets get this guy outta here"

surgical-collar-demonstration
gharmon wrote:
I'm an ER nurse as well and I've had a couple different paramedic friends tell me that the conventional wisdom about neck collars is changing for...

I'm an ER nurse as well and I've had a couple different paramedic friends tell me that the conventional wisdom about neck collars is changing for reasons you mention. Most times they are incorrectly placed.  Trust me, I've seen some of them on and be like wtf, why even bother. But the new thoughts is that a person, if conscious, will keep there head in the correct position due to pain/comfort. 

 Now whether or not that's true I don't know they place a lot more neck braces than I do but I've placed enough to know that they aren't made of steel and patients will still move their heads around and distort the braces location. They are only foam/plastic shit. While this is a skinny kid with a normal neck so it's easier to place correctly

 Half of today's fat, overweight, short-neck patients the shit is very hard to get a good fit. Some of those guys are md's and what happened to Brian is a tragic situation. . If you are going to put it on at least put it on correctly

ok so tell me this, would you waste your time working for A stars? i cant see them paying high enough to attract anyone with legit experience. As you know just because your a registered nurse that does not mean your trained well in emergency situations. That comes from real experience and i just dont see A stars paying enough to attract those people.

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gharmon
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2/2/2025 11:32am
The device is used to keep your head still, my girlfriend is an ER nurse and immediately called it out. The photos clearly show it fitting...

The device is used to keep your head still, my girlfriend is an ER nurse and immediately called it out. The photos clearly show it fitting way too loose and him moving his head around, and don't say its standard procedure to put it on, when we have seen many many other riders being carted off aren't wearing one. If you suspect someone may have a chance of having a neck injury, put the dam thing on correctly. Not just "here's your frickin neck collar lets get this guy outta here"

surgical-collar-demonstration
gharmon wrote:
I'm an ER nurse as well and I've had a couple different paramedic friends tell me that the conventional wisdom about neck collars is changing for...

I'm an ER nurse as well and I've had a couple different paramedic friends tell me that the conventional wisdom about neck collars is changing for reasons you mention. Most times they are incorrectly placed.  Trust me, I've seen some of them on and be like wtf, why even bother. But the new thoughts is that a person, if conscious, will keep there head in the correct position due to pain/comfort. 

 Now whether or not that's true I don't know they place a lot more neck braces than I do but I've placed enough to know that they aren't made of steel and patients will still move their heads around and distort the braces location. They are only foam/plastic shit. While this is a skinny kid with a normal neck so it's easier to place correctly

 Half of today's fat, overweight, short-neck patients the shit is very hard to get a good fit. Some of those guys are md's and what happened to Brian is a tragic situation. . If you are going to put it on at least put it on correctly

ok so tell me this, would you waste your time working for A stars? i cant see them paying high enough to attract anyone with legit...

ok so tell me this, would you waste your time working for A stars? i cant see them paying high enough to attract anyone with legit experience. As you know just because your a registered nurse that does not mean your trained well in emergency situations. That comes from real experience and i just dont see A stars paying enough to attract those people.

I wouldn't do it. But don't they have the Dr, a full time PT, that go to every race and then recruit people for each race to help out? I think they mostly use paramedics correct? I've meet some really good paramedics. I learned a lot from them.  The good ones are REALLY good. 

Here the last couple years, just like nursing there were shortages of medics as well. Both nursing and medics were ran thru accelerated programs because of the massive need during and after covid. Since then I've met some really bad ones especially while traveling. 

So I could see that being an issue. I'm not saying I'm a smart guy or better than anyone but I been in ER for 12 years now and experience does matter like you mentioned but I still wouldn't do that job. Lol

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devotid
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2/2/2025 12:41pm

And meanwhile the guy selling donuts in the pits is giving out 45k motorhomes to his friends and the Alpinestars Medical Unit employees are making just over minimum wage. I think thats the real problem here.

 

Also... I have never seen those BR104 pics either. Just gutting to see him treated like that. Straight up carrying him like a ragdoll. 

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Nairb#70
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2/2/2025 12:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2025 12:59pm

Wow, this situation is a lot worse than I ever thought or imagined, and you think they have the best medics available due to the nature and complexity of our sport and the potential for serious injury. A red flag is better than the alternative.

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The Shop

2/2/2025 12:54pm
what are the qualifications required to be on the floor as an A stars medic? they are certainly not getting the best and brightest to do...

what are the qualifications required to be on the floor as an A stars medic? they are certainly not getting the best and brightest to do this,

 

Untitled1111111.png?VersionId=1

 

so here it says either be a licensed nurse, athletic trainer, EMT, or paramedic. So im going to say theres almost no way they have nurses out on the track and they are in the medic rig, so one of the other three is out there dragging dudes off the track. Paramedics are more highly trained than EMTs, and the best in their field isnt jumping at the chance to do this kind of job, most likely theyre getting guys that are the bottom of the barrel here

Splat03 wrote:

You are more than welcome to write your resume and apply for a position with A-stars. 

You completely missed the point of this thread because you are illiterate and too ignorant to figure it out. 

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Splat03
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2/2/2025 1:24pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2025 1:27pm
what are the qualifications required to be on the floor as an A stars medic? they are certainly not getting the best and brightest to do...

what are the qualifications required to be on the floor as an A stars medic? they are certainly not getting the best and brightest to do this,

 

Untitled1111111.png?VersionId=1

 

so here it says either be a licensed nurse, athletic trainer, EMT, or paramedic. So im going to say theres almost no way they have nurses out on the track and they are in the medic rig, so one of the other three is out there dragging dudes off the track. Paramedics are more highly trained than EMTs, and the best in their field isnt jumping at the chance to do this kind of job, most likely theyre getting guys that are the bottom of the barrel here

Splat03 wrote:

You are more than welcome to write your resume and apply for a position with A-stars. 

You completely missed the point of this thread because you are illiterate and too ignorant to figure it out. 

Me? Barking up the wrong tree boss. 

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2/2/2025 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2025 1:55pm
2020 sx tampa essais lbu -1200x800.jpg?VersionId=28Aty.obrian LeBigUSA 2 186695772 2789702637744903 1061856691714260992 o-1200x800 1EQ KzThX0AE2s7F 0.jpg?VersionId=a31VL1A3diy7vA6y5Id
Mossy940 wrote:
I’m just going to ask because I don’t ever recall seeing these photos of BM104…..Was Bryan paralyzed during the crash (or at least loss of feeling)...

I’m just going to ask because I don’t ever recall seeing these photos of BM104…..


Was Bryan paralyzed during the crash (or at least loss of feeling) and then moved liked that? Or did he still have feeling/mobility?


I’m fully aware the above is poorly written but phrasing that question is difficult….I just can’t fathom ANYONE, let alone medical staff, move someone like that if there was the slightest indication of a neck or back injury 

Reports were that he was screaming the he couldn’t feel while they were moving him. And recall, they were hustling him off the track to not impede practice.

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1
2/2/2025 2:50pm
what are the qualifications required to be on the floor as an A stars medic? they are certainly not getting the best and brightest to do...

what are the qualifications required to be on the floor as an A stars medic? they are certainly not getting the best and brightest to do this,

 

Untitled1111111.png?VersionId=1

 

so here it says either be a licensed nurse, athletic trainer, EMT, or paramedic. So im going to say theres almost no way they have nurses out on the track and they are in the medic rig, so one of the other three is out there dragging dudes off the track. Paramedics are more highly trained than EMTs, and the best in their field isnt jumping at the chance to do this kind of job, most likely theyre getting guys that are the bottom of the barrel here

Splat03 wrote:

You are more than welcome to write your resume and apply for a position with A-stars. 

You completely missed the point of this thread because you are illiterate and too ignorant to figure it out. 

Trust Devin Davis, he a expert and the biggest blow hard vital ever had. s1200 ABFEF19C AD11 4007 A0D4 6D7C680BBC18 1.jpg?VersionId=A Yz2ZbGgqPvrJv nMPV

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MXATC
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2/2/2025 3:13pm
what are the qualifications required to be on the floor as an A stars medic? they are certainly not getting the best and brightest to do...

what are the qualifications required to be on the floor as an A stars medic? they are certainly not getting the best and brightest to do this,

 

Untitled1111111.png?VersionId=1

 

so here it says either be a licensed nurse, athletic trainer, EMT, or paramedic. So im going to say theres almost no way they have nurses out on the track and they are in the medic rig, so one of the other three is out there dragging dudes off the track. Paramedics are more highly trained than EMTs, and the best in their field isnt jumping at the chance to do this kind of job, most likely theyre getting guys that are the bottom of the barrel here

Athletic trainer, really?

Yes! Athletic Trainer really. I am a Certified/Licensed athletic trainer. We are trained in the care and prevention of Sports Medicine injuries and this includes trauma related injuries. Who do think takes care of the football players that you see each and every week on TV? The athletic trainer. Who took care of Damar Hamlin when he had SCA on the field on TV? The athletic trainer. I could give all types of data and position statements from the NFL/NCAA and other professional organizations that state the importance of the athletic trainer. When it comes to concussions, the final clearance comes from the supervising physican or the athletic trainer. I can't speak for the Alpinestars Medical Staff or their procedures but I do know that without them things would be worse than you could imagine. 

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Tyler D
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2/2/2025 4:08pm

These medical arguing threads aren't as fun as the legal arguing threads. 

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1911
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2/2/2025 4:13pm
Splat03 wrote:

You are more than welcome to write your resume and apply for a position with A-stars. 

You completely missed the point of this thread because you are illiterate and too ignorant to figure it out. 

lostboy819 wrote:
Trust Devin Davis, he a expert and the biggest blow hard vital ever had.

Trust Devin Davis, he a expert and the biggest blow hard vital ever had. s1200 ABFEF19C AD11 4007 A0D4 6D7C680BBC18 1.jpg?VersionId=A Yz2ZbGgqPvrJv nMPV

He hasn’t changed a bit. He has just doubled down. 

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jemcee
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2/2/2025 4:13pm

I'm not gonna argue with them as they could be super qualified and I'm not that..

But if it's seen as important to put on, it SHOULD be important to put on properly and I too was shocked about how much it wasn't doing what it was put on to do  

1
2/2/2025 4:49pm

That's a Philadelphia collar, of course, it sucks. Nothing goods come out of that place except Geno's steaks. Kidding.

That collar would fit an adult just fine, but on a smaller person, it fits like shit. I've had patients with C3 fractures that come in looking like Darth Vader with their collars on. No clue how a medical professional can see that and give it the A-OK. 

Splat03
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2/2/2025 10:59pm Edited Date/Time 2/2/2025 11:13pm

I was not being sarcastic. Maybe that’s the way you took it but it was not intended that way. He is welcome to complete some medical training, get some experience and apply. The world needs more medical professionals from the lowliest emts to the highest cardio thoracic surgeons and every level of provider in between those. You can not look at one snapshot during one patient’s medical treatment and instantly say the entire system is inept. I’m not saying there aren’t sometimes mistakes. I believe medical malpractice including medication error is currently the 3rd leading cause of death in the US, could be wrong but I think I have that correct. Based on the pictures already posted on here by someone else, that rider was moving his head up and down on his own. The collar wasn’t great but I don’t know if it was placed before his helmet was taken off. Collars don’t fit well with helmets, especially that style.

For those not in the medical field, you can’t immobilize a neck with just a collar. Your head is a 10 lb bowling ball on top of an ice cream cone. Look at you hands and feet. Compare the ankle and wrist movement to the neck. Pretty similar right? All basically hanging out at the end of a limb. To immobilize those, feet, hands and head, you have to splint the entire thing. People that have surgery for UNSTABLE cervical fractures end up in a halo device post-op to immobilize. Most neck injury stuff tends to be soft tissue or spinous process fracture, inherently stable. Collars are put on with the direction that it is there to remind you to not move your head and neck. Patients then say ok while shaking their heads. They are itchy and uncomfortable so patients rub their chins up and down and generally use the collar as a fulcrum to move their head despite being told not to. Patients that have very real unstable cervical, thoracic or lumbar fractures absolutely KNOW something is wrong and are very vocal about it. They do not move around and they do not want you to touch them in any way. They have a completely different presentation than someone that has whiplash from a car accident. 

Pre-hospital providers have been using an adapted NEXUS criteria in regards to managing the need to collar/backboard patients for 15-20 years.  That is criteria that started in hospitals to rule out the need for X-rays because radiation pointed at your head is bad for you. NEXUS is nationally accepted both medically and legally. The overwhelming findings in studies currently show almost all patients with spinal injuries sustained the injury during their event and immobilization pre-hospital had no effect, positive or negative, on their outcome. I’m not defending actions taken during BM104 but it probably did not change his outcome. Obviously the lawyers think differently so we will see. Jesse Nelson has huge deficits that were not changed one way or the other. Many cases, usually geriatric, had worse outcomes with backboarding. 

The doctor that runs the med program has done it for years. He is dedicated to medicine and motocross. He still works in the ED and then travels on the weekends. There is a core staff of providers that travel with them regularly, not all of them hit all the races. The program has begged for money and sponsorships and has been generally very well received by the racing community. Huge shout out to Asterisk and now A-Stars for keeping it going.  These providers care for these racers 31 weekends a year. They know the racers, team members, coaches, racers families, local docs and medics.  It’s like taking care of your favorite nephew and knowing his mom is going to come ask you questions the next weekend. These providers do this on top of their regular jobs and required training then throw some travel on top of it.  To imply they are not qualified, are not bright and to say they are the bottom of the barrel is ignorant never mind insulting. 
 

By the way, someone else posted that pic, not me. I am way to computer illiterate to find an old picture of you  

 

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ns503
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2/3/2025 2:09am
Splat03 wrote:
I was not being sarcastic. Maybe that’s the way you took it but it was not intended that way. He is welcome to complete some medical...

I was not being sarcastic. Maybe that’s the way you took it but it was not intended that way. He is welcome to complete some medical training, get some experience and apply. The world needs more medical professionals from the lowliest emts to the highest cardio thoracic surgeons and every level of provider in between those. You can not look at one snapshot during one patient’s medical treatment and instantly say the entire system is inept. I’m not saying there aren’t sometimes mistakes. I believe medical malpractice including medication error is currently the 3rd leading cause of death in the US, could be wrong but I think I have that correct. Based on the pictures already posted on here by someone else, that rider was moving his head up and down on his own. The collar wasn’t great but I don’t know if it was placed before his helmet was taken off. Collars don’t fit well with helmets, especially that style.

For those not in the medical field, you can’t immobilize a neck with just a collar. Your head is a 10 lb bowling ball on top of an ice cream cone. Look at you hands and feet. Compare the ankle and wrist movement to the neck. Pretty similar right? All basically hanging out at the end of a limb. To immobilize those, feet, hands and head, you have to splint the entire thing. People that have surgery for UNSTABLE cervical fractures end up in a halo device post-op to immobilize. Most neck injury stuff tends to be soft tissue or spinous process fracture, inherently stable. Collars are put on with the direction that it is there to remind you to not move your head and neck. Patients then say ok while shaking their heads. They are itchy and uncomfortable so patients rub their chins up and down and generally use the collar as a fulcrum to move their head despite being told not to. Patients that have very real unstable cervical, thoracic or lumbar fractures absolutely KNOW something is wrong and are very vocal about it. They do not move around and they do not want you to touch them in any way. They have a completely different presentation than someone that has whiplash from a car accident. 

Pre-hospital providers have been using an adapted NEXUS criteria in regards to managing the need to collar/backboard patients for 15-20 years.  That is criteria that started in hospitals to rule out the need for X-rays because radiation pointed at your head is bad for you. NEXUS is nationally accepted both medically and legally. The overwhelming findings in studies currently show almost all patients with spinal injuries sustained the injury during their event and immobilization pre-hospital had no effect, positive or negative, on their outcome. I’m not defending actions taken during BM104 but it probably did not change his outcome. Obviously the lawyers think differently so we will see. Jesse Nelson has huge deficits that were not changed one way or the other. Many cases, usually geriatric, had worse outcomes with backboarding. 

The doctor that runs the med program has done it for years. He is dedicated to medicine and motocross. He still works in the ED and then travels on the weekends. There is a core staff of providers that travel with them regularly, not all of them hit all the races. The program has begged for money and sponsorships and has been generally very well received by the racing community. Huge shout out to Asterisk and now A-Stars for keeping it going.  These providers care for these racers 31 weekends a year. They know the racers, team members, coaches, racers families, local docs and medics.  It’s like taking care of your favorite nephew and knowing his mom is going to come ask you questions the next weekend. These providers do this on top of their regular jobs and required training then throw some travel on top of it.  To imply they are not qualified, are not bright and to say they are the bottom of the barrel is ignorant never mind insulting. 
 

By the way, someone else posted that pic, not me. I am way to computer illiterate to find an old picture of you  

 

You're OK with how they handled Brian?

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2/3/2025 3:21am
Splat03 wrote:
I was not being sarcastic. Maybe that’s the way you took it but it was not intended that way. He is welcome to complete some medical...

I was not being sarcastic. Maybe that’s the way you took it but it was not intended that way. He is welcome to complete some medical training, get some experience and apply. The world needs more medical professionals from the lowliest emts to the highest cardio thoracic surgeons and every level of provider in between those. You can not look at one snapshot during one patient’s medical treatment and instantly say the entire system is inept. I’m not saying there aren’t sometimes mistakes. I believe medical malpractice including medication error is currently the 3rd leading cause of death in the US, could be wrong but I think I have that correct. Based on the pictures already posted on here by someone else, that rider was moving his head up and down on his own. The collar wasn’t great but I don’t know if it was placed before his helmet was taken off. Collars don’t fit well with helmets, especially that style.

For those not in the medical field, you can’t immobilize a neck with just a collar. Your head is a 10 lb bowling ball on top of an ice cream cone. Look at you hands and feet. Compare the ankle and wrist movement to the neck. Pretty similar right? All basically hanging out at the end of a limb. To immobilize those, feet, hands and head, you have to splint the entire thing. People that have surgery for UNSTABLE cervical fractures end up in a halo device post-op to immobilize. Most neck injury stuff tends to be soft tissue or spinous process fracture, inherently stable. Collars are put on with the direction that it is there to remind you to not move your head and neck. Patients then say ok while shaking their heads. They are itchy and uncomfortable so patients rub their chins up and down and generally use the collar as a fulcrum to move their head despite being told not to. Patients that have very real unstable cervical, thoracic or lumbar fractures absolutely KNOW something is wrong and are very vocal about it. They do not move around and they do not want you to touch them in any way. They have a completely different presentation than someone that has whiplash from a car accident. 

Pre-hospital providers have been using an adapted NEXUS criteria in regards to managing the need to collar/backboard patients for 15-20 years.  That is criteria that started in hospitals to rule out the need for X-rays because radiation pointed at your head is bad for you. NEXUS is nationally accepted both medically and legally. The overwhelming findings in studies currently show almost all patients with spinal injuries sustained the injury during their event and immobilization pre-hospital had no effect, positive or negative, on their outcome. I’m not defending actions taken during BM104 but it probably did not change his outcome. Obviously the lawyers think differently so we will see. Jesse Nelson has huge deficits that were not changed one way or the other. Many cases, usually geriatric, had worse outcomes with backboarding. 

The doctor that runs the med program has done it for years. He is dedicated to medicine and motocross. He still works in the ED and then travels on the weekends. There is a core staff of providers that travel with them regularly, not all of them hit all the races. The program has begged for money and sponsorships and has been generally very well received by the racing community. Huge shout out to Asterisk and now A-Stars for keeping it going.  These providers care for these racers 31 weekends a year. They know the racers, team members, coaches, racers families, local docs and medics.  It’s like taking care of your favorite nephew and knowing his mom is going to come ask you questions the next weekend. These providers do this on top of their regular jobs and required training then throw some travel on top of it.  To imply they are not qualified, are not bright and to say they are the bottom of the barrel is ignorant never mind insulting. 
 

By the way, someone else posted that pic, not me. I am way to computer illiterate to find an old picture of you  

 

ns503 wrote:

You're OK with how they handled Brian?

Did you read his entire post?

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Splat03
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2/3/2025 4:08am
ns503 wrote:

You're OK with how they handled Brian?

No I’m not. Conventional thought process leads to say he should have been collared and boarded plus whatever racing that was occurring at the time should have been red flagged. I don’t know if it was a practice, qualifying session or a race moto. A basic rule is first do no more harm to the pt. Another basic rule is life over limb. Maybe they moved him because the race directors would not stop the racing and they felt it was more dangerous for him on the track. As an outsider, I don’t know why they moved him without c-spine precautions. I don’t know what their findings were on their initial patient assessment. No one involved is talking about it due to pending litigation. 
If people are wanting to have open discussion it needs to be open both ways. BM104 and Nelson are both in situations that are tragic. You can include Fonseca, Button and Bailey in that list. They lost body function that makes their lives significantly more difficult than prior to their events.

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MXRalph
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2/3/2025 6:03am

Cut Devin a little slack he is just trying to defend his brother. I don't think BigDog needed help in this discussion but I've seen people do more for less regarding family. It'll be ok D'Dog! 

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