How long before MX is only a rich mans sport?

TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
7/16/2010 12:10pm
So that you can tell me how full of shit I am...

You can make a pretty damn compeptitive 250F with a Piston, a Program, a Pipe and some good fuel (VP Pro 4.1 for the Nat's/SX). Let's say...$1500 if ya do it smartly.

Making a competitive 450 is the same...or less.

Then there's Chassis/Suspension: You can get that with springs and a revalve. $1K on a bad day?

If ya HAVE to go for a Cam and some head-work...go for it; but, don't make gross assumptions that you HAVE to.

If you feel you have to respond and tell me that I'm way off...fine.

That's O.K., too. It's just like the Race-Dad that keeps sayin' his kid is gettin' beat by the other kid's "bike".

Fine.

Have a nice day.
CamP
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Colleyville, TX, USA
7/16/2010 12:37pm
Ya the way prices are going up on everything pretty soon the sport is going to belong to the rich or the ones who make the...
Ya the way prices are going up on everything pretty soon the sport is going to belong to the rich or the ones who make the most sacrafice. O wait thats the way it is now.
Blake wrote:
The rich don't do this sport.
That's the problem. We asked for champagne works bikes but we are on a beer budget. Less complex bikes are the future, if there is going to be a future.
RNagy052
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Bryceville, FL, USA
7/16/2010 1:11pm
Ing wrote:
One word: 4-strokes.
MSRP of a brand new 2010 YZ125 is $6,090 add in all of the dealer fees and taxes and you are probably close to 7k for a 125 2 stroke.

Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX, USA
7/16/2010 2:43pm
So a fast racer can't be competitive and continue to improve his/ her skills on a 1 year old 2 stroke?

And since when did the "next big thing" stop getting bikes, mechanics, and parts for cheap or even free?

I have relatives that got new bikes for free just a few years ago and they certainly were not the next big thing, just fast local Intermediates.

The Shop

Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX, USA
7/16/2010 2:43pm
So a fast racer can't be competitive and continue to improve his/ her skills on a 1 year old 2 stroke?

And since when did the "next big thing" stop getting bikes, mechanics, and parts for cheap or even free?

I have relatives that got new bikes for free just a few years ago and they certainly were not the next big thing, just fast local Intermediates.
JoJmoto
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1783
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Location
Clarkesville, GA, USA
7/16/2010 7:54pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
So a fast racer can't be competitive and continue to improve his/ her skills on a 1 year old 2 stroke? And since when did the...
So a fast racer can't be competitive and continue to improve his/ her skills on a 1 year old 2 stroke?

And since when did the "next big thing" stop getting bikes, mechanics, and parts for cheap or even free?

I have relatives that got new bikes for free just a few years ago and they certainly were not the next big thing, just fast local Intermediates.
A few years ago we were not in the shape we are today in this economy. Its pretty hard to find someone in the SE getting "Free" bikes now. Parts for the fast B rider I sponsor are 1/2 off at best.

This kid deos not run 2 strokes, he is on 250f's because most of the tracks being run turn into a thumper type track. Personally, I wish he would go back to the 2 stroke, but, bottom line is, he is faster on the thumper. We are hoping for a win or at least top three at LL this year to help him get a little more noticed.
7/17/2010 5:22am Edited Date/Time 7/17/2010 5:38am
TeamGreen wrote:
So that you can tell me how full of shit I am... You can make a pretty damn compeptitive 250F with a Piston, a Program, a...
So that you can tell me how full of shit I am...

You can make a pretty damn compeptitive 250F with a Piston, a Program, a Pipe and some good fuel (VP Pro 4.1 for the Nat's/SX). Let's say...$1500 if ya do it smartly.

Making a competitive 450 is the same...or less.

Then there's Chassis/Suspension: You can get that with springs and a revalve. $1K on a bad day?

If ya HAVE to go for a Cam and some head-work...go for it; but, don't make gross assumptions that you HAVE to.

If you feel you have to respond and tell me that I'm way off...fine.

That's O.K., too. It's just like the Race-Dad that keeps sayin' his kid is gettin' beat by the other kid's "bike".

Fine.

Have a nice day.
No, you are not full of shit TeamGreen, although think about what you are saying. You buy a 2010 250F for $7,000 and then have to put in another $2500 in motor and suspension just to be competitive? Is that what you said. I think that is what these guys are complaining about. In the old days a 2 stroke could be raced bone stock and be competitive, maybe suspension done. Todays 250f motors start out very dead and are brought alive with mods. 2 strokes modded added a little, but it wasn't like night and day change. The 250f it is.

What people aren't understanding, is the fact that you could buy a clapped out 2 stroke and still be fairly confident that you would be ok, maybe with a top end. Then if you wanted a pipe and intake mod, maybe another $200. You are competitive. Today, if you buy a clapped out 250F, you better hold on to the mod dollars, because you will need them for a total motor rebuild that will use all of that up. So for a real everyweekend racer, you can't have a used up 4 stroke. You have to buy a clean one or even new to be competitive. When I raced in 92 I wore jeans, work gloves and old boots I got with the 87 CR125. It was $700 plus I had a honda civic hatchback and a small trailer. (Edit: Better clarify this for some dumbasses here that always nitpick. I only had to wear the jeans etc for a couple of races. I bought the bike in Mar or April and then my birthday in May I received MSR gear.)
7/17/2010 6:10am
In general, motorsports are not cheap. Whether you are building a bracket racer, cart or MX bike, if you are trying to win, its always been expensive relatively speaking.

However, just to participate in the sport (i.e. ride for fun), it's pretty economical compared to other sports (golf, wave runners, boating/fishing, etc).

I am helping a neighbor 15 year old kid (single mom) get into the sport. We are starting with a 125 2T. We looked for a few weeks, found several good ones in the $1k - $1.5K range. Settled on a 03 RM125 for $1,000 from a local MX family. They will have to put in about $300 to get it up to date and safe and its a great bike.

Found enough used gear to get him on a track, $135 for a hitch hauler and they are on a track and having serious fun for $1,500. Now could he race that thing in 125 beg? Sure, but its no where a race bike.

So to have fun in the sport you do not have to be rich, but to race, it sure would help. We purchased my son's 2008 YZ125 from a Canadian kid trying to turn pro. He lives at MTF and had 7 bikes (and his own wrench when he went to LL), all on daddy's $$$. Last time I saw his name mentioned he was still not on a box anywhere.
mx317
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USA
7/17/2010 6:15am Edited Date/Time 7/17/2010 6:16am
With the new rule that allows you to run a 250 2-stroke with the 250F, why not get a 2-stroke? I know that this does not apply to pros (yet), but we are talking local here I thought. Other than the up front cost, 450s are not to expensive to maintain. Any bike can blow, I've had a 250 YZ 2-stroke break a rod and punch holes in everything. The big cost difference on a 4-stroke is when you tear up a head and start buying valves, cams, and the head itself.

Remember when they Yamaha a MX and a YZ with the MX being much cheaper? Why not build something that had XR style engines (run forever) with a somewhat modern chassis? Would it sell? I doubt it because kids these days have to have the best they think.
motogroove
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Location
Madison, CT, USA
7/17/2010 6:15am
Old sayings:

**********

Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

**********

The only way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big fortune.

**********

Let's ride.
7/17/2010 6:31am
I agree with what has been said. It really comes down to where you plan on racing. If you compare the 1980 dollar to the 2010 dollar local racing isn't to far off and really if you look at Pro racing its not to far off either. Parts prices are close and while 2 strokes have less parts, at the national level it still was a major cost to build full race motors.
themrtoad
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1261
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Location
SE
7/17/2010 8:10am
Ya the way prices are going up on everything pretty soon the sport is going to belong to the rich or the ones who make the...
Ya the way prices are going up on everything pretty soon the sport is going to belong to the rich or the ones who make the most sacrafice. O wait thats the way it is now.
Blake wrote:
The rich don't do this sport.
CamP wrote:
That's the problem. We asked for champagne works bikes but we are on a beer budget. Less complex bikes are the future, if there is going...
That's the problem. We asked for champagne works bikes but we are on a beer budget. Less complex bikes are the future, if there is going to be a future.
We asked for champagne works bikes but we are on a beer budget...LOL great expression!!
MXinOC
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201
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5/29/2010
Location
Anaheim, CA, USA
7/17/2010 9:38pm
G-man wrote:
Oh yea I forgot to mention when you posted this pic, I thought it was you and you looked familiar.... lol :P [img]http://jerrybphotography.com/W%20Reid%20FMF%201975%20CMC%20at%20Saddleback%20copy.jpg[/img] Cool pics Bobby!
Oh yea I forgot to mention when you posted this pic, I thought it was you and you looked familiar.... lol Tongue



Cool pics Bobby!
Gman...Racer 92 is in this pic?
MXinOC
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201
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Location
Anaheim, CA, USA
7/17/2010 9:39pm
G-man wrote:
Oh yea I forgot to mention when you posted this pic, I thought it was you and you looked familiar.... lol :P [img]http://jerrybphotography.com/W%20Reid%20FMF%201975%20CMC%20at%20Saddleback%20copy.jpg[/img] Cool pics Bobby!
Oh yea I forgot to mention when you posted this pic, I thought it was you and you looked familiar.... lol Tongue



Cool pics Bobby!
Gman...Racer 92 is in this pic?
bg22
Posts
422
Joined
9/18/2009
Location
USA
Fantasy
7/17/2010 11:20pm
You guys are lucky. I haven't bought a new bike since my '02 CR250 because the economy and work uncertainties. It may not be the fastest out there but it gets the job done that I want it to do.
7/18/2010 12:38am
Ya the way prices are going up on everything pretty soon the sport is going to belong to the rich or the ones who make the...
Ya the way prices are going up on everything pretty soon the sport is going to belong to the rich or the ones who make the most sacrafice. O wait thats the way it is now.
Blake wrote:
The rich don't do this sport.
100% true Blake. Most the guys in the HUGE motorhomes towing the 50ft trailers filled with bikes are the "In debt" not "the rich".
BIGHEAD1
Posts
418
Joined
1/8/2009
Location
Compton, FL, USA
7/18/2010 8:10am
I don't see the price of the bikes coming down... Kawasaki just introduced the 1/2 fork to cut costs ...OOPS I MEAN TO INCREASE PERFORMANCE TO AMAZING LEVELS (Suckers). The single biggest increase in price to bikes in the last 10 years on the OEM has level come from suspension, most notably converting from open chamber to twin chamber forks. I feel if the OEM's would would go back to more simple forks they could cost the costs of bikes 700 maybe even as much as $1000. The second biggest cost? Frames..

Nagy pointed out to you guys that the YZ125 are way more expensive than they used to be and it's the same bike as 2005. In 2005 YZ125's were 5k now they are $6100 this was do to the phasing in of the costs of the aluminum frame and SSS forks. (OEM's don't increase the prices dramatically from year to year they slowly increase them)

You can buy a 250 two stroke for $2000 right now and have a bike that is lighter and faster than the guys you are racing. You guys blame DC for killing the sport by not letting 250 two strokes race in the 250 class but that's all BS. You can race a 250 two stroke and be at a horsepower advantage right now. If people wanted two strokes they would buy them...period. No excuses.

I don't really agree with the rich man's sport thing. It takes a huge investment initially now, but you can still sell your bike at the end of the year and with a job working construction get a new bike every year. The easiest way to get in is to finance initially with the 0 percent interest plans available, pay off $250-300 a month then sell your bike at the end of the year....and repeat. It's the way I used to do it when I raced... Financing long term is stupid especially if you pay the $100 a month...



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