How long before MX is only a rich mans sport?

JoJmoto
Posts
1783
Joined
11/8/2006
Location
Clarkesville, GA, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 1:47pm
Our sport now seems like it is becoming the "POLO" of mx riding. The cost of the four strokes and the cost of building even just one for an AMA event are just becoming unruly! Nowadays, the cost of a motor build for a National event will cost nearly as much as a new bike it's self. And then for a top B level rider or above, they need several bikes to be competitive. What does a kid with all the talent in the world and none of the money do these days? I personally know one such rider who just can’t catch a break because it’s so hard for him to keep the two bikes he has together all year long and certainly cannot afford to buy new ones. Actually, the ones he has are a couple years old and were bought as near new condition so he could get a price break on them in order to buy two for the price of one.

Makes me wonder, if there was another GOAT out there but did not have the money to keep his equipment together when he needed it, would our sport suffer from what could have been or just the kid?
|
Racer92
Posts
17965
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Central, TX, USA
7/15/2010 5:46am
Dont feel alone, its happening to the dirt track world also. Even the simplest entry-level bomber & street stock classes will cost you good money to run up front. And sprint cars? You dont even wanna know. Roundy, round costs bigtime, too.

mxrudi
Posts
178
Joined
2/5/2010
Location
SI
7/15/2010 5:47am
It already is rich mans sport. In Europe pretty much is like that who has the most money is the best. Amateur racing sure. But you need to go through amateurs, that you can become pro. So money all the way.
crf250pilot
Posts
2131
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Manning, OR, USA
7/15/2010 5:50am Edited Date/Time 7/15/2010 5:51am
I knew of one such kid here in Arizona years ago. His name was Larry Moore and he could run circles around anyone here locally when he was riding minis, but his folks didn't have the money to get him to any big events. He was a bad dude on a 80 though. I'm sure there's plenty more just like him. Your right though, It takes more than just being fast, especially these days.
ando
Posts
4591
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth, AU
7/15/2010 6:39am
If you mean "you need to be rich to win" then when has it ever been any different?

I don't think you need to be rich to just compete.

The Shop

JackLHyde
Posts
804
Joined
9/10/2006
Location
Nice Oak, DE
7/15/2010 6:48am
Good topic, but you are approaching it wrong in my mind. It's the average rider that keeps this sport alive, not the pros. They are just the representatives to the public.

Everything is getting more expensive, yet the annual incomes don't grow equally. That's the real problem. Wanna know what a new bike costs over here? The average 450 costs about 8000€, which is about 10,200$!!! Don't even start on gas prices. 1.45€ per litre, which is 7$ per gallon!
ando
Posts
4591
Joined
8/20/2009
Location
Perth, AU
7/15/2010 7:04am
JackLHyde wrote:
Good topic, but you are approaching it wrong in my mind. It's the average rider that keeps this sport alive, not the pros. They are just...
Good topic, but you are approaching it wrong in my mind. It's the average rider that keeps this sport alive, not the pros. They are just the representatives to the public.

Everything is getting more expensive, yet the annual incomes don't grow equally. That's the real problem. Wanna know what a new bike costs over here? The average 450 costs about 8000€, which is about 10,200$!!! Don't even start on gas prices. 1.45€ per litre, which is 7$ per gallon!
Good point, everything is relative.

A new 450 MX bike in Australia costs around $11,000 - $12,000. $AUD/$US = 0.88, therefore the bike cost in US$ = $9680 - $10560. For offroad versions you can add another $1500 or so.

Fuel in Australia is about $US5/gal.

Wanna finance your bike? Even if you're using equity in your home mortgage you're still paying around 7% interest. Unsecured loan - you're looking at at 12-13%.
Racer111
Posts
2766
Joined
5/23/2009
Location
Concord, NC, USA
7/15/2010 7:18am Edited Date/Time 7/15/2010 7:20am
I don't know about anyone else, but I can go down to the Local Honda shop here in Danville,KY and buy a brand new (current year) Honda CRF450R for 8099.00 out the door or a brand new CRF250R for 7199.00 out the door. This price includes the tax and all the other bs like destination charges etc.... When the 2011's come out, the deal will be the same. They make sure that you get out the door only spending whatever Honda has listed as the "Base MSRP". And this is anyone who walks through the door, not just me.
Larry
Posts
5092
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Fayetteville, GA, USA
7/15/2010 7:23am
If a kid cannot buy a bike working after school then its too expensive.
We are there now.
CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX, USA
7/15/2010 7:30am
Larry wrote:
If a kid cannot buy a bike working after school then its too expensive.
We are there now.
Agreed, there has to be a full size race bike that passes the lawn mower test. What's the lawn mower test? It's a new bike that any high school kid can buy with the money he made mowing lawns for one summer. 125's use to pass the test. Current 250F's do not.
Shawn142
Posts
2602
Joined
10/27/2008
Location
Burleson, TX, USA
7/15/2010 7:30am
I dunno, the high price of new bikes has really driven down the cost of old. Older 2 strokes and 4 strokes can be had for less than 2k all over the place, gear and the like hasn't gone up that much. Racing at the amateur national level is crazy expensive but it always has been. 15 years ago a trip to Lorettas was still several thousand dollars for us.
Shenzi
Posts
2697
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
SWFL, FL, USA
Fantasy
7/15/2010 7:31am
come on, it's never been a "poor man's" or "lower middle class" sport. How many people can afford 1 bike, the gear, the after-market parts, the long drives to a motocross track, the practice or race fees. Then you need the trailer, or pick-up truck to carry it all, then you have the maintenance, the spare parts, the tires, etc....

It's always been a sport for people with spare cash. Of course, there are exceptions, like in everything.

Racer92
Posts
17965
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Central, TX, USA
7/15/2010 7:36am
Larry wrote:
If a kid cannot buy a bike working after school then its too expensive.
We are there now.
CamP wrote:
Agreed, there has to be a full size race bike that passes the lawn mower test. What's the lawn mower test? It's a new bike that...
Agreed, there has to be a full size race bike that passes the lawn mower test. What's the lawn mower test? It's a new bike that any high school kid can buy with the money he made mowing lawns for one summer. 125's use to pass the test. Current 250F's do not.
These two guys are correct.
AMA714
Posts
780
Joined
12/27/2007
Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
7/15/2010 7:44am
Dude, its been a rich mans sport for years..... Have you ever been to the practice track and looked at the bikes and trucks.... Race day is motor coaches and 5th wheels!!!

It has gotten progressively worse but it has always cost a lot of money, and yes there are thousands of kids that are super fast and will never get to a Mini O, Loretta's, Whitney, etc, etc... I was one of them!

Im fortunate that I have the means to do it now, I love having nice bikes and the ability to get a new one every year. Hell I wish that my parents could have helped me out and had the money when I was a kid.... I am sure the reason we see so much money in the sport now is from dads just like me that want to give their kids the things we did not have. I hope that if my 5 year old starts to really start ripping, that I will be able to support him... But I will not take him away from being a kid and having fun.... No home school and no Motorhome pulling a trailer full of Mini's... He'll be just fine with 1 really well prepped bike.....
mx317
Posts
5395
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
7/15/2010 7:59am
A lot of the expense is keeping up with the Jones'. Everything costs more these days.
Racer92
Posts
17965
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Central, TX, USA
7/15/2010 8:23am

AMA714 wrote: Dude, its been a rich mans sport for years..... Have you ever been to the practice track and looked at the bikes and trucks.... Race day is motor coaches and 5th wheels!!!



Yeah, but its a shame it has gone to that.

This is what it looked like in the pits when I started going to Rio in the 70s.




motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI, USA
7/15/2010 8:26am
Shenzi wrote:
come on, it's never been a "poor man's" or "lower middle class" sport. How many people can afford 1 bike, the gear, the after-market parts, the...
come on, it's never been a "poor man's" or "lower middle class" sport. How many people can afford 1 bike, the gear, the after-market parts, the long drives to a motocross track, the practice or race fees. Then you need the trailer, or pick-up truck to carry it all, then you have the maintenance, the spare parts, the tires, etc....

It's always been a sport for people with spare cash. Of course, there are exceptions, like in everything.

I beg to differ Shenzi,when I first started out (70's) it really was something that anybody with a couple extra nickles to rub together could go out and do. But there were a hell of a lot more decent paying jobs out there for anybody willing to put in a days work.
Racer92
Posts
17965
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Central, TX, USA
7/15/2010 8:32am
I beg to differ Shenzi,when I first started out (70's) it really was something that anybody with a couple extra nickles to rub together could go...
I beg to differ Shenzi,when I first started out (70's) it really was something that anybody with a couple extra nickles to rub together could go out and do. But there were a hell of a lot more decent paying jobs out there for anybody willing to put in a days work.
I hear that ! I cant speak for everywhere, but in our neck-o-the-woods, it didnt matter what brand of bike you had or anything else. If you were a motorcycle guy, you were in the club - we didnt discriminate. We had guys out there on Honda XL's riding the track with speedo & turn signals flapping around, Kawi & Yamaha enduros with oil injection, you name it. Most of us didnt have gear, just a helmet and if you hustled you could get some boots and a duckbill or raceface. Leathers and nice jerseys were for the elite. LOL
motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI, USA
7/15/2010 8:42am
I suggest we start a movement... a new class at the races... call it potocross (poor mans class)... have a 1000 dollar claiming rule on the bikes... require blue jeans and work boots be worn and demonstrate how much fun you can have riding some 20 year old 2 stroke on a serious budget!
flynbrian
Posts
358
Joined
7/16/2008
Location
Geff, IL, USA
7/15/2010 8:42am
AMA714 wrote:
Dude, its been a rich mans sport for years..... Have you ever been to the practice track and looked at the bikes and trucks.... Race day...
Dude, its been a rich mans sport for years..... Have you ever been to the practice track and looked at the bikes and trucks.... Race day is motor coaches and 5th wheels!!!

It has gotten progressively worse but it has always cost a lot of money, and yes there are thousands of kids that are super fast and will never get to a Mini O, Loretta's, Whitney, etc, etc... I was one of them!

Im fortunate that I have the means to do it now, I love having nice bikes and the ability to get a new one every year. Hell I wish that my parents could have helped me out and had the money when I was a kid.... I am sure the reason we see so much money in the sport now is from dads just like me that want to give their kids the things we did not have. I hope that if my 5 year old starts to really start ripping, that I will be able to support him... But I will not take him away from being a kid and having fun.... No home school and no Motorhome pulling a trailer full of Mini's... He'll be just fine with 1 really well prepped bike.....
I would say you missed it by about 35-40 years. Although with the vintage bike racing making a comeback there may be hope yet.
peelout719
Posts
2507
Joined
4/30/2008
Location
Ogden, UT, USA
7/15/2010 8:45am
it's always been a sport that requires a decent amount of money to participate, but it is ridiculous how expensive it is lately. there is no reason a new dirt skooter should cost over 6k. 8,500 is a joke.

and accessory costs aren't helping either. what a joke.
Blake
Posts
2934
Joined
9/11/2009
Location
USA
7/15/2010 8:55am
Larry wrote:
If a kid cannot buy a bike working after school then its too expensive.
We are there now.
CamP wrote:
Agreed, there has to be a full size race bike that passes the lawn mower test. What's the lawn mower test? It's a new bike that...
Agreed, there has to be a full size race bike that passes the lawn mower test. What's the lawn mower test? It's a new bike that any high school kid can buy with the money he made mowing lawns for one summer. 125's use to pass the test. Current 250F's do not.
Racer92 wrote:
These two guys are correct.
Hows a kid gonna mow the lawn?

All the illegals are doing the landscaping.

McDonalds? Hell they have so many illegals that ICE raids them constantly and area McD's are closed for days.

I remember when 2 Brand new KX80s were 1200 bucks in the crate.
Even Marc Pellagrino touched on that back when 80s were cheap.. Not happening today.
dl117
Posts
1547
Joined
2/8/2007
Location
Cambridge, MN, USA
7/15/2010 9:33am
My last new bike before I dropped the budget on my 07 450 was a 1985 YZ80 new in the box for $725 out the door


the 450 was a little more than that.
Shenzi
Posts
2697
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
SWFL, FL, USA
Fantasy
7/15/2010 10:26am
Racer92 wrote:
I hear that ! I cant speak for everywhere, but in our neck-o-the-woods, it didnt matter what brand of bike you had or anything else. If...
I hear that ! I cant speak for everywhere, but in our neck-o-the-woods, it didnt matter what brand of bike you had or anything else. If you were a motorcycle guy, you were in the club - we didnt discriminate. We had guys out there on Honda XL's riding the track with speedo & turn signals flapping around, Kawi & Yamaha enduros with oil injection, you name it. Most of us didnt have gear, just a helmet and if you hustled you could get some boots and a duckbill or raceface. Leathers and nice jerseys were for the elite. LOL
I know what you mean. I raced on borrowed XT with all the flapping stuff on and jeans for pants.


Nutty C
Posts
463
Joined
10/28/2009
Location
Waterdown, CA
7/15/2010 10:34am
It was a rich mans sport about year 2000.
Tiki
Posts
10668
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Corona, CA, USA
Fantasy
7/15/2010 10:59am
Nutty C wrote:
It was a rich mans sport about year 2000.
I agree. How long? It's been. When amateurs started hiring trainers and homeschooling it was done. Now if you are comparing it to polo, I am sure polo is still played in dirt paddocks just as some motocross races are held in out of the way places; the larger draw races are for those with disposable income or those eating franks and beans leveraged to the hilt. Hell the races are held during the work week and so close together, how do you manage six week long vacations a year? I feel this is consistent for both parents and competitors.
Adam43
Posts
3312
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
7/15/2010 11:24am
Shenzi wrote:
come on, it's never been a "poor man's" or "lower middle class" sport. How many people can afford 1 bike, the gear, the after-market parts, the...
come on, it's never been a "poor man's" or "lower middle class" sport. How many people can afford 1 bike, the gear, the after-market parts, the long drives to a motocross track, the practice or race fees. Then you need the trailer, or pick-up truck to carry it all, then you have the maintenance, the spare parts, the tires, etc....

It's always been a sport for people with spare cash. Of course, there are exceptions, like in everything.

Disagree totally. Even ten years ago it was very common for modest families or even just kids with part time jobs to be in the sport. It's how I and almost everyone I know got into it.

You did not need to be rich or have huge amounts of disposable income at all.

You could buy a 125 that was a couple years old for cheap, and rebuild it for next to nothing. Take it to the races in dad's pickup truck. 8-10 years ago that's what EVERYONE did.

The race fees and vehicle expenses have never really been that far out of whack. It's the four-strokes man. They cost a fortune and are worth next to nothing a year later. Pipes for the fucking things can cost grand...every part is expensive. People will go on and on how the four strokes aren't to blame, but it is far and away the #1 reason why the sport is dwindling.

numba1 fan
Posts
165
Joined
2/17/2009
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
7/15/2010 11:33am
id say it pretty much is... there are guys out there that have the talent but do not have the funds to keep going. Parents that cant support them to get them to that next level, just struggling to go out and afford to practice during the week let alone all the parts to be maintain the bike and be competitive. Then comes the cost to go out and race and make it to the pro level. It is so much to go race am nationals and think of how many classes are needed to be raced to be noticed with all the top guys its almost impossible without a large bank account.

I think the only way for a kid to make it from an average family bank account is by racing 50s or smaller bikes and getting noticed early while its still affordable, pick up support and keep it going from there. Without the support its just to hard.
MXinOC
Posts
201
Joined
5/29/2010
Location
Anaheim, CA, USA
7/15/2010 3:08pm Edited Date/Time 7/15/2010 3:10pm
JoJmoto wrote:
Our sport now seems like it is becoming the "POLO" of mx riding. The cost of the four strokes and the cost of building even just...
Our sport now seems like it is becoming the "POLO" of mx riding. The cost of the four strokes and the cost of building even just one for an AMA event are just becoming unruly! Nowadays, the cost of a motor build for a National event will cost nearly as much as a new bike it's self. And then for a top B level rider or above, they need several bikes to be competitive. What does a kid with all the talent in the world and none of the money do these days? I personally know one such rider who just can’t catch a break because it’s so hard for him to keep the two bikes he has together all year long and certainly cannot afford to buy new ones. Actually, the ones he has are a couple years old and were bought as near new condition so he could get a price break on them in order to buy two for the price of one.

Makes me wonder, if there was another GOAT out there but did not have the money to keep his equipment together when he needed it, would our sport suffer from what could have been or just the kid?
JoJmoto...I think we have been POLO'd for a while and it is a crime that it is ignored by the AMA, Youthstream greed, and down the line, it seems to be easier for them to blame the economy instead of FACE IT and start to find the solution (s). Our sport definitely suffers as well as the kid!

Am I wrong? Is there any organization, company, association, any entity creating a Think Tank on this subject? ... besides RupertX and The Advanced ... Congratulations Rupert!
JoJmoto
Posts
1783
Joined
11/8/2006
Location
Clarkesville, GA, USA
7/15/2010 3:16pm Edited Date/Time 7/15/2010 3:24pm
Adam43, I agree 100%. The 2 stroke was/is so less to build and buy parts for. I feel when the thumpers came around, the sport began getting a little crazy. I like thumpers but cant afford to own one myself so I stick with the stroker. I actually did own a 450 but sold it before something happen and I could not afford to pay to fix it.

People have gone crazy and put themselves in so much debt to keep up with the Jones' its just plan silly. In a way, I fall into this catagory as well except, I cant even keep up with the Smith's let alone the Jones'.

Here is a phot from 1995 of Gatorback during the Gold Cup Series.... enjoy.




Photobucket
Jakes Dad
Posts
1864
Joined
6/22/2009
Location
Brooksville, FL, USA
7/15/2010 3:23pm
The only thing being near "rich" for my kid will be the memories of us going riding and racing when there's some extra cash. We're hitting a lot of new tracks to him this summer here in the Southeast. Old 94' Dodge van and no a/c and pitching a tent mostly.

He had fun racing last weekend at Lusk's track in Bainbridge Ga., had some of those MTF kids asking who he was.

But hey what I can't give him as far as new bikes he gets 2 fold in good Dad and kid time.

Post a reply to: How long before MX is only a rich mans sport?

The Latest