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I will say in the last 6 months a good many Honda factory guys had the rear step out on them. Not saying there is a connection but it happened a bunch.
I remember something Keefer was talking about years ago about debuting some edges of the Honda shock tower to reduce rigidity. I can’t find any info on goggle but maybe you can reach out to him.
Did you try reducing torque on the swingarm nut?
I’d try from FCP mounts or reducing torque on stock mounts to see if you feel a change.
You can also loosen all the engine bolts including swingarm and rest all the torque spec, maybe things are bound up and just need to be reset
Thanks
Yes I have been after Keefer about this for a few months now. He agrees. He says they came to same conclusion a while back. He may not understand exactly whats happening and some designers get upset at his use of terms (sorry Kriss but word meaning matters ha) to describe things but his experience mirrors mine.
I did hear the podcast you talk about where they basically just break the square edge of the shock mounts structure with a file. I do understand at times a small change can make a useful difference BUT in FEA analysis just breaking that edge shows zero change in overall stiffness. Im struggling to believe that one but willing to try it as I see no possability of failure, just doubt it will do anything. The new shock tower is a seriously rigid and beefy structure. The older honda shock towers (2007) were long structures with quite a bit more flex than the new design so who knows
I have tryed changing torques on various parts including engine mounts and swing pivot but so far no significant effect, I will at some point goto extreems on torque and ride over mild terrane to see if can isolate the issue. Taking torques to low values that mean connection failure can help here but be carful ha.
As for FCP I have talked to them as well. My plan is the hack up and mod the stock mounts from stiffer to flexyer to see the difference before I shell out that much $ for mounts. Stock mounts are cheap. I actually have a design on paper for adjustable stiffness mounts that I may make crude protos of for test but first just loosen etc to see what happens
Nice, the adjustable stiffness mounts would be fun try! Be careful modifying the stock mounts, I think they are cast and will get brittle once they are drilled and can crack. Not a big deal if they do, just have extra on hand.
I agree on filing the shock tower but placebo effect is real also.
You might want to reach out to Colton Udall on IG, I’ve seen him do lots of mods to the CRF X to get them ready for racing at Baja 1000. He was chasing the old Honda chassis feel as well.
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placebo can be a bugga for shur
stock mounts are steel on the crf
might be cast on the crx? they are sure more expensinve on the crx than the crf
thanks for tip, whats "IG"?
It may be simplistic what I'm about to say, but isn't the fact that the Honda is very precise, turns extremely well, and is very flickable a corollary of this perceived 'rigidity,' given that other brands are more comfortable but don't have these qualities? Apart from the vibrations, what did you think of the Kawasaki's agility compared to the Yamaha?
I don't think you are going to get very far with the engine mounts. That will affect harshness in the front of the bike more than the rear. You probably need to chase the shock tower and linkage. KTM went after both on the 2025 frame, and it helped harshness on both ends of the bike.
"The more spending/testing you will need to do to get it dialed, and within that phrase "dialed" would include Triple clamps, suspension, linkage, chain guide, slider, Bearing races is a possible. Without that probably kiss getting the stock bike to handle well goodbye. sorry for the long post."
I have a 2023 crf450..chasing the harshness...what does Chain guide and sliders have to do with it? Any info on this an i'm all ears..
Thanks
Suspension should be your number one change. That will make by far the most difference of anything mentioned in this thread.
Reducing bolt torque - does nothing. Unless you go too low, then you significantly increase the rate of fatigue on the bolt and/or you get slipping of the joint, which is a bad thing. All your bolts should be properly torqued such that everything is connected as it's supposed to be. A loose engine mount bolt can cause a lot of vibration.
Chamfering edges of the frame - Simply breaking the sharp edges won't do anything. It won't hurt, but it's largely a waste of time.
Engine Mounts - Won't do much. You'll have to be REALLY sensitive to feel a change, and it won't at all be the massive change needed for you based on what you're after.
Split triple clamp - Will make things better, but won't be the magic answer to fix everything.
Bars - Can help if you're not running something good already. Twinwalls are the worst, Evo or similar are good.
Linkage - Won't do anything unless you're changing the actual linkage ratio. File this under suspension changes rather than structural changes.
Everything else - Wheels, tires, tire pressure, tubes, etc. can all change how things feel. You might try switching to a different brand of tire.
Stiffness may not be your main issue, it might be damping; not a whole lot you can do about that, though. It's not like you can change the location of the gas tank or how the subframe mounts up... You can try (carefully) filling the frame rails with foam to help dampen out vibrations.
Have you tried standing up more?
Hmm not sure. I suspect the "quicker" geometry of the honda is not really the reason for what I feel. It is a definite harshness in the rear only that you wont notice on soft tracks.
The Kaw turned better and is more agile than the Yamaha IMO but the Kow motor was anemic, especially when comparing to the yamaha. I suspect however the Kow may be a better bike for many. The yamaha is a handfull at times
I had a 2025 sxf350 for about a month, sold it because I didnt like the motor BUT yes compared to the harshness I feel in the 2022SXF they did overcome it somewhat in the 2025
Tested LUXONs knuckle for the 2025 sxf and would recommend it for most people in most conditions.
Cause they wear out and they are weak.
Thanks Billy
So far this is what I have found as well. Suspension changes (clicks ,sag, oil levels) have made the most change but still the issue is there. Surprisingly the biggest change has been running a higher rear (102sag) vs say 105-7 sag. BUT I like 105 sag and 2mm fork ht best for handling on this one. however I am working the stock stuff still. Havent tryed a different tire yet BUT did go to extremes with pressures as a test and the issue remains.
The issue seems to be solidly in the rear end.
I just got my suspension back from Factory connection for a revalve to address the harshness issue I felt on stock settings. Their recommendation for sag is 113mm with a fork height of 2.5 -5mm. Seems a bit extreme but I'll give it a try. 165lbs intermediate rider.
113mm?
On the new honda or some other bike?
I was talking to them the other day and they said they liked 105mm on the honda
They told me to start at 107 and increase until i noticed a difference of turn in
Edit: Fork Height of 2.5.
you might get different settings depending who and what shop you are talking too.
Pit Row
2025 crf450r
hmmm well 107 start is in the ballpark, I guess play and see. Ive been from 101 to 108. I found anything more than about 105 and the rear feels like its ridding on the bumper. Very harsh BUT thats on stock suspension
I find this bike to responded well to fork height changes. There was a suprising difference between 2 and 5 mm.
Im VERY curious to hear if the FC suspension mods reduce the harshness to your satisfaction. Will you be riding the bike soon?
Fascinating. Congratulations on the patents.
Im sorry everyone but I really get a kick out of imagining The Hurricane reading this thread.
How fast are y’all?
what do ya think he would say?
speed has nothing to do with this one
goto 11:35
bold statement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L02wEP2YK5c
lowmass - Still waiting for some basic information: Current hours on the bike, rider size/weight/ability, vet or main track riding, moto/off-road/sx!, changes from stock, etc. If on the bubble, weight-wise, the Honda usually prefers a stiffer shock spring and less preload over a heavily tensioned spring. If spring rates have already been updated, what brand? Even springs aren’t apples to apples…
Comparing the RWE and R is fruitless, by the way. 18mm shock shaft, coatings, setup are completely bike specific. You mentioned CRF450 in your original post, just verifying it’s an R and not RWE we’re talking about.
I'd be curious to see how an 18" rear affects this sensation.
crf450R not the WE
all stock , 12 hrs on bike on quite rough tracks both sand and hardpack
fork at 2mm sag at 103 , Ive been from fork at 5mm and sags from 101-108. I find 105 best but 103 is a bit less harsh I have to run the stock forks rebound clicker at only 2-3 out from full hard ( comp clicker does next to nothing stock so using the crossover effect of the rebound circuit to get some comp damp) and added 50cc oil in outers to get a fork that had anywhere near enough hold up to ride the bike at speed. Believe it or not the fork , even in this config, isnt all that bad
Im 182lbs vet expert, I no longer huck the big triples ( can but usually dont) BUT can still give local fast guys a go. however I dont ride there most of the time. Probably more a fast intermediate AND I dont ride like an old guy. Blessed with a youthful build and I ride light on the bike
Out of all the settings the sag has had the largest effect on the rear ends harshness. Blowing out comp and HS comps on shock can help BUT no control at speed with such a setting and even the stock settings blow through too easily in the deeper power on stuff anyway
Also perhaps important I dont use hands /arms as my strength to hang on. I never get arm pump
and btw no matter what speed Im at I can feel the rear ends issue. Its not simply overloaded
me too. a bit more meat and damp
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