Unpopular Opinion: I'm Okay With the 9 Whoop Rule

aeffertz
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Edited Date/Time 11/17/2024 2:35pm

Hear me out but I'm surprisingly conflicted on this the more I think about it. The number of whoops isn't the problem, it's how they are built.

I do think whoops should be difficult but at the same time I recognize how gnarly they are. I think I've figured out my initial backlash to the rule and how they've been put it into place. Outside of limiting them to just 9 whoops only, it seems as if Feld is building the whoops differently so they can be jumped easily at nearly the same speed which is the biggest problem in my opinion. 

WSX built small whoops that could be blitzed but not jumped through at nearly the same pace. The whoops were small but somehow Eli could crush them faster than everyone else and seeing him wheelie through them made it fun to watch. Right now it seems like AMA SX is building a 9 bump section that you can skim through or jump through at the same speed. Classic whoops like the ones we saw at Paris separate the field vs. dumbing down the track in multiple ways. If you want to keep it at 9 whoops, sure. That seems to be fine if you still build them like whoops but  they aren't even building them like whoops anymore. Make them peaky like they used to be which makes it slower to jump through.

Here's a video of Jett figuring out the whoops in Paris. I think these are sufficiently difficult but I don't see why there would need to be 5+ more.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm fine with a 9 whoop rule if they build them like actual whoops again, like we saw in Paris. Instead, they made a 9 whoop rule and then also made them not even whoops at the same exact time. Put 9 whoops like that on your AMA track and I don't think you will see many people complain about them. Just build ACTUAL WHOOPS again, even if it's just nine of them.

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Johnny Ringo
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11/17/2024 2:11pm

Fair point. 9 whoops are probably fine if they are legit. 

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aeffertz
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11/17/2024 2:33pm Edited Date/Time 11/17/2024 2:34pm

Fair point. 9 whoops are probably fine if they are legit. 

That's where I'm at! We don't need 15 rollers, we need an actual whoop section. Stop making the whoops a rhythm section. 

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lumpy790
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11/17/2024 2:39pm

The number of woops is not the answer.

Woops change shape through out the night so there are different challenges to them race to race.

At some point it is simply safer to jump through them instead of skimming out of control and wading yourself up.

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Kyzer138
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11/17/2024 3:03pm

Paris = real whoops (even if it’s 9)

AMA = rhythm section 

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The Shop

Pop Shmoke
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11/17/2024 3:47pm

If theyre going to keep it here it should at least be 10 so ppl cant just triple triple triple through.

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11/17/2024 4:01pm Edited Date/Time 11/17/2024 4:07pm

Super cool to see them roll those whoops in at the Paris track and see the dudes blitz them every lap.  Watching guys like Mookie shine in them is fun too.  Such a specific skill and dividing factor 


I’m with you.  Nine whoops that aren’t built for jumping are cool

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mtbkris2
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11/17/2024 5:12pm

Cooper Webb disapproves of this post 

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chad_111
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11/17/2024 5:19pm
aeffertz wrote:
Hear me out but I'm surprisingly conflicted on this the more I think about it. The number of whoops isn't the problem, it's how they are...

Hear me out but I'm surprisingly conflicted on this the more I think about it. The number of whoops isn't the problem, it's how they are built.

I do think whoops should be difficult but at the same time I recognize how gnarly they are. I think I've figured out my initial backlash to the rule and how they've been put it into place. Outside of limiting them to just 9 whoops only, it seems as if Feld is building the whoops differently so they can be jumped easily at nearly the same speed which is the biggest problem in my opinion. 

WSX built small whoops that could be blitzed but not jumped through at nearly the same pace. The whoops were small but somehow Eli could crush them faster than everyone else and seeing him wheelie through them made it fun to watch. Right now it seems like AMA SX is building a 9 bump section that you can skim through or jump through at the same speed. Classic whoops like the ones we saw at Paris separate the field vs. dumbing down the track in multiple ways. If you want to keep it at 9 whoops, sure. That seems to be fine if you still build them like whoops but  they aren't even building them like whoops anymore. Make them peaky like they used to be which makes it slower to jump through.

Here's a video of Jett figuring out the whoops in Paris. I think these are sufficiently difficult but I don't see why there would need to be 5+ more.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm fine with a 9 whoop rule if they build them like actual whoops again, like we saw in Paris. Instead, they made a 9 whoop rule and then also made them not even whoops at the same exact time. Put 9 whoops like that on your AMA track and I don't think you will see many people complain about them. Just build ACTUAL WHOOPS again, even if it's just nine of them.

I feel like I just read the same thing 3 times over like a high school essay trying to hit the 500 word count.

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soggy
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11/17/2024 6:08pm

All we need to do is maintain them through the night like everyone else seems to be able to do. They should also roll them during the track build so they hold up better. 

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aeffertz
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11/17/2024 6:42pm
aeffertz wrote:
Hear me out but I'm surprisingly conflicted on this the more I think about it. The number of whoops isn't the problem, it's how they are...

Hear me out but I'm surprisingly conflicted on this the more I think about it. The number of whoops isn't the problem, it's how they are built.

I do think whoops should be difficult but at the same time I recognize how gnarly they are. I think I've figured out my initial backlash to the rule and how they've been put it into place. Outside of limiting them to just 9 whoops only, it seems as if Feld is building the whoops differently so they can be jumped easily at nearly the same speed which is the biggest problem in my opinion. 

WSX built small whoops that could be blitzed but not jumped through at nearly the same pace. The whoops were small but somehow Eli could crush them faster than everyone else and seeing him wheelie through them made it fun to watch. Right now it seems like AMA SX is building a 9 bump section that you can skim through or jump through at the same speed. Classic whoops like the ones we saw at Paris separate the field vs. dumbing down the track in multiple ways. If you want to keep it at 9 whoops, sure. That seems to be fine if you still build them like whoops but  they aren't even building them like whoops anymore. Make them peaky like they used to be which makes it slower to jump through.

Here's a video of Jett figuring out the whoops in Paris. I think these are sufficiently difficult but I don't see why there would need to be 5+ more.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm fine with a 9 whoop rule if they build them like actual whoops again, like we saw in Paris. Instead, they made a 9 whoop rule and then also made them not even whoops at the same exact time. Put 9 whoops like that on your AMA track and I don't think you will see many people complain about them. Just build ACTUAL WHOOPS again, even if it's just nine of them.

chad_111 wrote:

I feel like I just read the same thing 3 times over like a high school essay trying to hit the 500 word count.

You’re not wrong. I was just yappin’

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11/17/2024 8:00pm Edited Date/Time 11/17/2024 8:05pm

The dirt used to build whoops is important. 

You can build three sets of 12 whoops using different dirt and you see them break down differently and start biting riders whilst one set may hold up just fine throughout the evening.

Suspension. Not everyone has access to the good stuff, the technicians and data required for a setup yet they need to try blitz the whoops and they get bit.

Whoops are part of the game. Roczen got hurt bad in a rhythm lane...Forkner got hurt bad in a rhythm lane. Go figure.

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KurtJ99
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11/17/2024 8:37pm

There were passes in the Paris whoops. I don’t recall any key passes in ‘24 SX. Most got a center rut or jump line everyone copied. The tabletop before the whoop section put riders side by side going into the whoops where nerve and skill gave opportunity for passing. Awesome track. 

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FIREfish148
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11/17/2024 9:22pm
mtbkris2 wrote:

Cooper Webb disapproves of this post 

He rode Paris pretty good though huh

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bvm111
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11/17/2024 9:43pm
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CPR
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11/17/2024 10:48pm
aeffertz wrote:
Hear me out but I'm surprisingly conflicted on this the more I think about it. The number of whoops isn't the problem, it's how they are...

Hear me out but I'm surprisingly conflicted on this the more I think about it. The number of whoops isn't the problem, it's how they are built.

I do think whoops should be difficult but at the same time I recognize how gnarly they are. I think I've figured out my initial backlash to the rule and how they've been put it into place. Outside of limiting them to just 9 whoops only, it seems as if Feld is building the whoops differently so they can be jumped easily at nearly the same speed which is the biggest problem in my opinion. 

WSX built small whoops that could be blitzed but not jumped through at nearly the same pace. The whoops were small but somehow Eli could crush them faster than everyone else and seeing him wheelie through them made it fun to watch. Right now it seems like AMA SX is building a 9 bump section that you can skim through or jump through at the same speed. Classic whoops like the ones we saw at Paris separate the field vs. dumbing down the track in multiple ways. If you want to keep it at 9 whoops, sure. That seems to be fine if you still build them like whoops but  they aren't even building them like whoops anymore. Make them peaky like they used to be which makes it slower to jump through.

Here's a video of Jett figuring out the whoops in Paris. I think these are sufficiently difficult but I don't see why there would need to be 5+ more.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm fine with a 9 whoop rule if they build them like actual whoops again, like we saw in Paris. Instead, they made a 9 whoop rule and then also made them not even whoops at the same exact time. Put 9 whoops like that on your AMA track and I don't think you will see many people complain about them. Just build ACTUAL WHOOPS again, even if it's just nine of them.

I feel like the guys who downvoted your post only read the the title.

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3strokemx
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11/18/2024 5:27am

Wouldn't 9 easy whoops benefit the privateers because they don't have access to factory suspension or proper whoops for training?

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Johnny Ringo
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11/18/2024 7:08am
3strokemx wrote:

Wouldn't 9 easy whoops benefit the privateers because they don't have access to factory suspension or proper whoops for training?

There is plenty of access to hard whoops for training. Privateers have been able to succeed with difficult whoops for the last 25 years. We don’t need to lower the bar to make it easier for everyone to step over it. 

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3strokemx
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11/18/2024 7:32am
There is plenty of access to hard whoops for training. Privateers have been able to succeed with difficult whoops for the last 25 years. We don’t...

There is plenty of access to hard whoops for training. Privateers have been able to succeed with difficult whoops for the last 25 years. We don’t need to lower the bar to make it easier for everyone to step over it. 

So more whoops would be better for privateers?

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Zycki11
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11/18/2024 8:05am

9-12 whoops not cookie cutter lame tracks the ama and Feld have conjured up. Sad state of affairs when our top boys go out of the states to find a legit track. 

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Zycki11
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11/18/2024 8:06am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2024 8:07am
3strokemx wrote:

Wouldn't 9 easy whoops benefit the privateers because they don't have access to factory suspension or proper whoops for training?

Not exactly. How many guys have you seen over the years with a privateer bike kill whoops? Bowers, Peick, Brayton(early years). These boys weren’t top prospects and they crushed whoops

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3strokemx
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11/18/2024 8:11am
Zycki11 wrote:
Not exactly. How many guys have you seen over the years with a privateer bike kill whoops? Bowers, Peick, Brayton(early years). These boys weren’t top prospects...

Not exactly. How many guys have you seen over the years with a privateer bike kill whoops? Bowers, Peick, Brayton(early years). These boys weren’t top prospects and they crushed whoops

Do you think more challenging whoops benefit privateers?

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Zycki11
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11/18/2024 8:12am
Zycki11 wrote:
Not exactly. How many guys have you seen over the years with a privateer bike kill whoops? Bowers, Peick, Brayton(early years). These boys weren’t top prospects...

Not exactly. How many guys have you seen over the years with a privateer bike kill whoops? Bowers, Peick, Brayton(early years). These boys weren’t top prospects and they crushed whoops

3strokemx wrote:

Do you think more challenging whoops benefit privateers?

I think more challenging whoops is what our sport is about. We have the most elite series and athletes yet they are on watered down lame tracks. Privateers are going to privateer. 

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3strokemx
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11/20/2024 6:08am
Zycki11 wrote:
I think more challenging whoops is what our sport is about. We have the most elite series and athletes yet they are on watered down lame...

I think more challenging whoops is what our sport is about. We have the most elite series and athletes yet they are on watered down lame tracks. Privateers are going to privateer. 

Exactly, the whoops don't benefit or advantage privateers.

It could be a flat oval and the best riders will still find a way to get to the top of the results.......
or it could be a hard enduro and the best riders will still get to the top of the results............

However, the easier tracks lend to closer racing and less lappers, while more difficult tracks lead to bigger time gaps between riders and less passing for the lead.

I think closer racing and less risk to the riders is in general in the interest of the spectators, riders, and promoters. The balance they had las year was pretty good with not many run away wins, the championship not decided until late in the season, and most riders staying healthy longer.
 

Zycki11
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11/20/2024 6:53am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2024 8:58am
Zycki11 wrote:
I think more challenging whoops is what our sport is about. We have the most elite series and athletes yet they are on watered down lame...

I think more challenging whoops is what our sport is about. We have the most elite series and athletes yet they are on watered down lame tracks. Privateers are going to privateer. 

3strokemx wrote:
Exactly, the whoops don't benefit or advantage privateers.It could be a flat oval and the best riders will still find a way to get to the...

Exactly, the whoops don't benefit or advantage privateers.

It could be a flat oval and the best riders will still find a way to get to the top of the results.......
or it could be a hard enduro and the best riders will still get to the top of the results............

However, the easier tracks lend to closer racing and less lappers, while more difficult tracks lead to bigger time gaps between riders and less passing for the lead.

I think closer racing and less risk to the riders is in general in the interest of the spectators, riders, and promoters. The balance they had las year was pretty good with not many run away wins, the championship not decided until late in the season, and most riders staying healthy longer.
 

I completely disagree, when you have 250 2 strokes hitting harder obstacles in years past and they weren't wadding themselves every weekend and the sport evolved. Crowds grew, and yet here we are with the most diverse field and elite riders with tracks that privateers train on being more difficult. There are many things that need to be changed for safety aspects,  but the whoops are not one of them. They are literally the damn staple of Supercross and what separates the men from the boys.

11/20/2024 11:48am

I'm fine with 9 whoops, then 9 more whoops...

Bring back 2003 Pontiac Supercross whoops with a jump at the end! Or 2012 San Diego whoops.

Flatliner
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11/20/2024 12:10pm

Hate saying it over and over, but A2 from 2000 shouldn't be harder than a modern track.  Personally not ok with 9, at minimum 10 to take away the triple triple triple.

 

Also loved the paris whoops.  Feld, take note.

64smoker
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11/20/2024 12:25pm

Fully agree , it’s the fact there so similar every round to it makes it far to predictable , them Paris whoops were awesome 

PRM31
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11/20/2024 12:27pm

We need real whoops, whatever the number or design. This 3-3-3 jumping and no other whoops takes away from supercross in my opinion. 

We also need different obstacles. The rhythm sections are getting old. 

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