Lake Elsinore Motocross Track Closing

yak651
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11/5/2024 4:26am

So who’s the promoter that leases the land and runs the track? Seems like that is the person that decided no more racing and is using the tragic accident as cover for his/their decisions. 

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PNWMXer
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11/5/2024 5:12am
yak651 wrote:
So who’s the promoter that leases the land and runs the track? Seems like that is the person that decided no more racing and is using...

So who’s the promoter that leases the land and runs the track? Seems like that is the person that decided no more racing and is using the tragic accident as cover for his/their decisions. 

Which if true, ironically could get them sued anyway…if they lied about the family suing and the family is now getting threatened/harassed as a result, I’d imagine they COULD sue for that.


Oh, and anyone who would threaten/harass the poor family of the deceased girl, even if they were suing, is a piece of shit of epic proportions. Unbelievable.

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aees
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11/5/2024 6:29am
In all my 20 years of riding, only two tracks scared me: El Cajon Speedway (mainly the night sessions) and Lake Elsinore. Perris was occasionally sketchy. If...

In all my 20 years of riding, only two tracks scared me: El Cajon Speedway (mainly the night sessions) and Lake Elsinore. Perris was occasionally sketchy. 

If I was the parents of that poor girl, I would sue the living bejeezus out of every irresponsible party involved in her death. Completely and totally inexcusable on every level.

 

rogers wrote:
Well you would only be suing your self and possibly the person that hit you in that case then.The primary FACT is that her parents knowingly...

Well you would only be suing your self and possibly the person that hit you in that case then.

The primary FACT is that her parents knowingly and intentionally put their child in harms way. The track did not force them to bring her to the track, , nor does the track imply that it is safe to ride there, nor did the track force them to knowingly sign a waiver that basically says they (the parents) are fully responsible for any injuries they or their child incurs at the track, period, end of story.

If you get run into on the highway, you certainly do not sue the City or State for allowing the road you got hit on to be placed there, nor do you sue the company that built the road etc. You only sue the person that hit you.

 

Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and in the controls they also did catch that same driver twice, and concluded he isn't suppose to be on the road, but let him go anyway instead of detaining, you would sue the police department or even the city for not keeping the roads safe. 

That's kind of what happened. 

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11/5/2024 6:55am
aees wrote:
Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and...

Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and in the controls they also did catch that same driver twice, and concluded he isn't suppose to be on the road, but let him go anyway instead of detaining, you would sue the police department or even the city for not keeping the roads safe. 

That's kind of what happened. 

That’s not at all what happened. The family hasn’t sued anyone. The track didn’t want to keep paying normal operating costs so they lied about being sued over a terrible tragedy, which is pretty shitty. They got caught lying and ran away with their tail between their legs 

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The Shop

11/5/2024 7:07am
aees wrote:
Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and...

Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and in the controls they also did catch that same driver twice, and concluded he isn't suppose to be on the road, but let him go anyway instead of detaining, you would sue the police department or even the city for not keeping the roads safe. 

That's kind of what happened. 

No dude, you’re missing everyone’s argument here which is that little girl and her family took a risk the moment they stepped foot on that motocross track. It’s on them. Life sucks. Shit happens. You just put your head down and you just carry on. At least we know little Brooke probably died doing what she loved, right fellas?

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aees
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11/5/2024 7:10am
aees wrote:
Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and...

Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and in the controls they also did catch that same driver twice, and concluded he isn't suppose to be on the road, but let him go anyway instead of detaining, you would sue the police department or even the city for not keeping the roads safe. 

That's kind of what happened. 

That’s not at all what happened. The family hasn’t sued anyone. The track didn’t want to keep paying normal operating costs so they lied about being...

That’s not at all what happened. The family hasn’t sued anyone. The track didn’t want to keep paying normal operating costs so they lied about being sued over a terrible tragedy, which is pretty shitty. They got caught lying and ran away with their tail between their legs 

That's kind of what happened in the way that the ones running the track should have taken that bike out of traffic. 

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aees
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11/5/2024 7:42am
aees wrote:
Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and...

Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and in the controls they also did catch that same driver twice, and concluded he isn't suppose to be on the road, but let him go anyway instead of detaining, you would sue the police department or even the city for not keeping the roads safe. 

That's kind of what happened. 

No dude, you’re missing everyone’s argument here which is that little girl and her family took a risk the moment they stepped foot on that motocross...

No dude, you’re missing everyone’s argument here which is that little girl and her family took a risk the moment they stepped foot on that motocross track. It’s on them. Life sucks. Shit happens. You just put your head down and you just carry on. At least we know little Brooke probably died doing what she loved, right fellas?

You take calculated risks. That's not in the calculation, that people that is not allowed on the track is there causing this issue. Specially after being dismissed twice. I could maybe buy it if he was unknown, sneaked into it once and it happend right away. 

It's like Nicky Lauda in formula 1 said, I accept 20% risk every time I step into the car, not more. That means you need to trust others to do their job. If they don't, that's not 20% risk anymore. 

I don't agree in not suing. People need to take responsibility. Either through insurance or pay up. 

If they would have fenced the tracks, this would not happend. One way in and out. If they would have banned the guy, would not have happend. If they would have had a person's at each track this would not have happend. 

Making this a thing about not suing instead of looking at the gross negligence that happend is ass backwards. 

It's like blaming the guy that gets hit by a drunk driver for being on the road at the same time as the drunk guy. It's not reasonable. 

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soggy
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11/5/2024 8:10am
aees wrote:
Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and...

Well, actually, if the police department had traffic stops some miles up the road from where a driver crashes into you and kill your doughter, and in the controls they also did catch that same driver twice, and concluded he isn't suppose to be on the road, but let him go anyway instead of detaining, you would sue the police department or even the city for not keeping the roads safe. 

That's kind of what happened. 

No dude, you’re missing everyone’s argument here which is that little girl and her family took a risk the moment they stepped foot on that motocross...

No dude, you’re missing everyone’s argument here which is that little girl and her family took a risk the moment they stepped foot on that motocross track. It’s on them. Life sucks. Shit happens. You just put your head down and you just carry on. At least we know little Brooke probably died doing what she loved, right fellas?

aees wrote:
You take calculated risks. That's not in the calculation, that people that is not allowed on the track is there causing this issue. Specially after being...

You take calculated risks. That's not in the calculation, that people that is not allowed on the track is there causing this issue. Specially after being dismissed twice. I could maybe buy it if he was unknown, sneaked into it once and it happend right away. 

It's like Nicky Lauda in formula 1 said, I accept 20% risk every time I step into the car, not more. That means you need to trust others to do their job. If they don't, that's not 20% risk anymore. 

I don't agree in not suing. People need to take responsibility. Either through insurance or pay up. 

If they would have fenced the tracks, this would not happend. One way in and out. If they would have banned the guy, would not have happend. If they would have had a person's at each track this would not have happend. 

Making this a thing about not suing instead of looking at the gross negligence that happend is ass backwards. 

It's like blaming the guy that gets hit by a drunk driver for being on the road at the same time as the drunk guy. It's not reasonable. 

I think macduff was laying on some thick sarcasm. 

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captmoto
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11/5/2024 9:28am

It's been brought up here many times by myself and others. You mostly don't have a choice in suing a track if you have insurance. Your insurance company sues for cost recovery. I wouldn't be surprised if the helmet, boot, bike companies etc. were all being sued. A friend of mine went through that as a promoter. He was surprised at how far insurance companies will reach to recover their costs. In this case it seems Elsinore knew there was a problem and didn't fully handle it. Something like that really opens them up to a lawsuit. What a fucking mess. RIP Brooke.

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mxnick
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11/5/2024 10:21am
captmoto wrote:
It's been brought up here many times by myself and others. You mostly don't have a choice in suing a track if you have insurance. Your...

It's been brought up here many times by myself and others. You mostly don't have a choice in suing a track if you have insurance. Your insurance company sues for cost recovery. I wouldn't be surprised if the helmet, boot, bike companies etc. were all being sued. A friend of mine went through that as a promoter. He was surprised at how far insurance companies will reach to recover their costs. In this case it seems Elsinore knew there was a problem and didn't fully handle it. Something like that really opens them up to a lawsuit. What a fucking mess. RIP Brooke.

Um, except for the fact that her family explicitly said they chose not to sue?  And they did not hold fault with the kid that hit her? You might have missed that part.

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LungButter
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11/5/2024 10:31am
captmoto wrote:
It's been brought up here many times by myself and others. You mostly don't have a choice in suing a track if you have insurance. Your...

It's been brought up here many times by myself and others. You mostly don't have a choice in suing a track if you have insurance. Your insurance company sues for cost recovery. I wouldn't be surprised if the helmet, boot, bike companies etc. were all being sued. A friend of mine went through that as a promoter. He was surprised at how far insurance companies will reach to recover their costs. In this case it seems Elsinore knew there was a problem and didn't fully handle it. Something like that really opens them up to a lawsuit. What a fucking mess. RIP Brooke.

mxnick wrote:
Um, except for the fact that her family explicitly said they chose not to sue?  And they did not hold fault with the kid that hit...

Um, except for the fact that her family explicitly said they chose not to sue?  And they did not hold fault with the kid that hit her? You might have missed that part.

Did you miss the part where you don't have a choice, it's up to the Insurance company.

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mxnick
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11/5/2024 10:42am
LungButter wrote:

Did you miss the part where you don't have a choice, it's up to the Insurance company.

Um, no, because this family is not suing! They had a choice, and they chose not to! 

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captmoto
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11/5/2024 10:49am
mxnick wrote:
Um, except for the fact that her family explicitly said they chose not to sue?  And they did not hold fault with the kid that hit...

Um, except for the fact that her family explicitly said they chose not to sue?  And they did not hold fault with the kid that hit her? You might have missed that part.

I didn't miss that part. Insurance companies will sue whether you want them to or not. It's called insurance subrogation. 

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soggy
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11/5/2024 11:14am
LungButter wrote:

Did you miss the part where you don't have a choice, it's up to the Insurance company.

mxnick wrote:

Um, no, because this family is not suing! They had a choice, and they chose not to! 

The family can choose whatever they want it has no bearing. If the families insurance company paid a claim the insurance company can sue the track. 

The lawsuit wouldn’t be the family vs lemx. It would be whatever the insurance provider was vs lemx (or whatever it’s operated under)

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LungButter
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11/5/2024 11:17am
mxnick wrote:

Um, no, because this family is not suing! They had a choice, and they chose not to! 

Yeah broski....that's not the way it works unfortunately.

Soggy bro explained it for you.

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mxnick
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11/5/2024 11:44am
mxnick wrote:

Um, no, because this family is not suing! They had a choice, and they chose not to! 

LungButter wrote:

Yeah broski....that's not the way it works unfortunately.

Soggy bro explained it for you.

Yea - I get that and know that an insurance company can go after someone at fault, but - in this one single case, it has not happened! And the family said it is not going to happen. I am not talking about other situations, only this sad story from Lake Elsinore. 

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SLAPAHO
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11/5/2024 11:45am
LungButter wrote:

Did you miss the part where you don't have a choice, it's up to the Insurance company.

mxnick wrote:

Um, no, because this family is not suing! They had a choice, and they chose not to! 

soggy wrote:
The family can choose whatever they want it has no bearing. If the families insurance company paid a claim the insurance company can sue the track. The...

The family can choose whatever they want it has no bearing. If the families insurance company paid a claim the insurance company can sue the track. 

The lawsuit wouldn’t be the family vs lemx. It would be whatever the insurance provider was vs lemx (or whatever it’s operated under)

Except for there's no lawsuit filed against the track in Riverside County records, as per the article. 

https://www.roadracingworld.com/news/no-motocross-lawsuit-found-in-rive…

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ns503
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11/5/2024 1:00pm

Lots of sure sounding things being said here by some that just don't know for sure.

soggy
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11/5/2024 1:01pm
mxnick wrote:

Um, no, because this family is not suing! They had a choice, and they chose not to! 

soggy wrote:
The family can choose whatever they want it has no bearing. If the families insurance company paid a claim the insurance company can sue the track. The...

The family can choose whatever they want it has no bearing. If the families insurance company paid a claim the insurance company can sue the track. 

The lawsuit wouldn’t be the family vs lemx. It would be whatever the insurance provider was vs lemx (or whatever it’s operated under)

SLAPAHO wrote:

Except for there's no lawsuit filed against the track in Riverside County records, as per the article. 

https://www.roadracingworld.com/news/no-motocross-lawsuit-found-in-rive…

Understood, we were kind of talking about two different things. 

If the track made up a lawsuit as reason for closing that’s a despicable move, especially because the family is being harassed. 

I’m not well versed enough in lawyering but could the supposed lawsuit be filed in a different court system?

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yak651
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11/5/2024 1:02pm

Sounds like a good story for a moto journalist, a track shutting down that HAS the support of the local city, something you rarely hear.

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mxnick
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11/5/2024 1:15pm
mxnick wrote:

Um, no, because this family is not suing! They had a choice, and they chose not to! 

soggy wrote:
The family can choose whatever they want it has no bearing. If the families insurance company paid a claim the insurance company can sue the track. The...

The family can choose whatever they want it has no bearing. If the families insurance company paid a claim the insurance company can sue the track. 

The lawsuit wouldn’t be the family vs lemx. It would be whatever the insurance provider was vs lemx (or whatever it’s operated under)

SLAPAHO wrote:

Except for there's no lawsuit filed against the track in Riverside County records, as per the article. 

https://www.roadracingworld.com/news/no-motocross-lawsuit-found-in-rive…

Exactly my point! 

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SLAPAHO
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11/5/2024 1:17pm
soggy wrote:
The family can choose whatever they want it has no bearing. If the families insurance company paid a claim the insurance company can sue the track. The...

The family can choose whatever they want it has no bearing. If the families insurance company paid a claim the insurance company can sue the track. 

The lawsuit wouldn’t be the family vs lemx. It would be whatever the insurance provider was vs lemx (or whatever it’s operated under)

SLAPAHO wrote:

Except for there's no lawsuit filed against the track in Riverside County records, as per the article. 

https://www.roadracingworld.com/news/no-motocross-lawsuit-found-in-rive…

soggy wrote:
Understood, we were kind of talking about two different things. If the track made up a lawsuit as reason for closing that’s a despicable move, especially because...

Understood, we were kind of talking about two different things. 

If the track made up a lawsuit as reason for closing that’s a despicable move, especially because the family is being harassed. 

I’m not well versed enough in lawyering but could the supposed lawsuit be filed in a different court system?

It wouldn't be the track making up any stories, they've been putting all kinds of time and money into the place in the last few months. Why would they make an all new flat track if they were planning on bailing out?  If anything, I think it would be the land owners wanting out. I also came across this. It says the lease is for 15 years starting back in 2011.

https://patch.com/california/lakeelsinore-wildomar/lake-elsinore-motocross-park-could-reopen-under-new-operator   

And yeah, the lawsuit would definitely be filed in the county where the track is located.   

PS.  I don't have any facts, It's all guess work at this point.  I do know first hand that the people running the track have puts tons of work into it recently, though. 

 

LungButter
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11/5/2024 1:27pm
yak651 wrote:

Sounds like a good story for a moto journalist, a track shutting down that HAS the support of the local city, something you rarely hear.

I suppose you're not wrong.

But moto journalists cover the sport at a professional level, I don't know of any that cover the business dealings of local tracks or anything to do with local tracks for that matter.

 

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mxnick
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11/5/2024 2:22pm
yak651 wrote:

Sounds like a good story for a moto journalist, a track shutting down that HAS the support of the local city, something you rarely hear.

LungButter wrote:
I suppose you're not wrong.But moto journalists cover the sport at a professional level, I don't know of any that cover the business dealings of local...

I suppose you're not wrong.

But moto journalists cover the sport at a professional level, I don't know of any that cover the business dealings of local tracks or anything to do with local tracks for that matter.

 

The cruel irony here is that it was Roadracing World Magazine who broke the story - not a more traditional So Cal moto journalist like Swap, MXA or any of the Vital guys... 

And RRW does not even really cover dirt bikes or dirt bike racing!  

I say that with one caveat, they are based out of Lake Elsinore, so they are very local to the track... 

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truck
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11/5/2024 2:57pm

Insurance subrogation is mostly insurance companies fighting over what insurance policy should have paid a claim. They're not filling wrongful death lawsuits and seeking big damages. From an insurance standpoint, death is pretty cheap unless someone has a large life insurance policy, so not going to be worth their time or effort even if there was someone to go after. 

Subrogation always gets thrown out there as the source of plausible deniability in these situations and it almost never has anything to do with it. And when it is involved, unless you're way under insured, it's an issue for your insurance company to handle and not something that should break you. That's the point of having the insurance. Your ability to get insurance is a different story. 

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2
11/5/2024 3:31pm Edited Date/Time 11/5/2024 3:33pm
yak651 wrote:

Sounds like a good story for a moto journalist, a track shutting down that HAS the support of the local city, something you rarely hear.

LungButter wrote:
I suppose you're not wrong.But moto journalists cover the sport at a professional level, I don't know of any that cover the business dealings of local...

I suppose you're not wrong.

But moto journalists cover the sport at a professional level, I don't know of any that cover the business dealings of local tracks or anything to do with local tracks for that matter.

 

mxnick wrote:
The cruel irony here is that it was Roadracing World Magazine who broke the story - not a more traditional So Cal moto journalist like Swap...

The cruel irony here is that it was Roadracing World Magazine who broke the story - not a more traditional So Cal moto journalist like Swap, MXA or any of the Vital guys... 

And RRW does not even really cover dirt bikes or dirt bike racing!  

I say that with one caveat, they are based out of Lake Elsinore, so they are very local to the track... 

As someone who was heavily involved in road racing for nearly a decade, I can attest to the fact that Road Racing World Magazine has always done a phenomenal job of getting to the bottom of a story and not caring who gets offended when they report on it.  No motocross media sources are even close.  John Ulrich and his crew have always been top notch, and as a National Championship winning professional race team, their technical content is second to none.

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mxnick
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11/5/2024 3:39pm
As someone who was heavily involved in road racing for nearly a decade, I can attest to the fact that Road Racing World Magazine has always...

As someone who was heavily involved in road racing for nearly a decade, I can attest to the fact that Road Racing World Magazine has always done a phenomenal job of getting to the bottom of a story and not caring who gets offended when they report on it.  No motocross media sources are even close.  John Ulrich and his crew have always been top notch, and as a National Championship winning professional race team, their technical content is second to none.

For sure! Nothing but respect for John and his family, as well as his crew (Gougis). They are really good. 

I just think its funny that with the amount of MX Media in So Cal, that it was a Road Racing publication that broke the story.  

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OneZeroFive
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11/5/2024 4:06pm

Not to mention RW is based in Elsinore. I'm sure they have their finger on the pulse.

CASH476
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11/5/2024 4:20pm

I may be missing something here as I haven't seen any of the prior social media posts.

Is it possible that the land owner has terminated their contract because of this accident and the legal ramifications caused by it? 

Is it possible that the land owner has said to Lake Elsinore management that they were being sued?

Would that not make the managements statements/reasons true as far as they know?  

Factor in the lease expiring in 2026? and maybe the land owners want to get a head start on whatever's next. I don't know the truth but it doesn't seem like a crazy scenario to me

 

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OldTech
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11/5/2024 4:54pm

Another option is the family that owns the land is completely horrified by the whole situation and wants nothing to do with it anymore.

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