Backfire BXF 450

Tiki
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Corona, CA, USA
Fantasy
6/16/2010 11:18am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Heres a closer look .

The motor mounts look scary. Nylocs? The welds dont actually look that bad. Need to see interior welds to really see the full scope. Do the Japaneses bikes harden or treat the welds on the current frames? Overall the motor looks odd and very over-bolted. Way too many parts that don't necessarily need to be separated. Three bolts were used where two were needed, the hubs look small, and is that a 100/90/19 on the rear?

OK Brass tax - whats it cost? $1200? $2200? if it priced low enough it might get adopted. What about spares? Who do you call? Replace the whole bike?
roomtofly
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Shreveport, LA, USA
6/16/2010 11:19am
More competition = lower prices
Bring on the Chinese, Senagalese, and all the other eses.
250 and 450's should cost half of what we pay.
Lightning78
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Huntington Beach, CA, USA
6/16/2010 11:44am
Applied used to have their triple clamps built straight outta china right? and ill bet you there are a lot of companies that did or still do....ya know why? Cheap labor!

Bash it all you want based on assumptions but if they are buying up frames from Honda then they are already made by Honda so unless I hear otherwise Im going to assume they are buying engines and frames from honda direct so the quality of those components shouldn't be suspect......Honda is making money hand over fist still mfg the frames and selling toem to a Chinese company....wheres the problem?

As for the clamps, again if they (China) were building the 1000's we consumed over here from the well reputed aftermarket companies then why would they not have the capability to biuld them over there?

The bolts? Well I dont know about them but even CCM buys engines from Yamaha So essentially the CCM is a KTM clone with a yamaha engine in it right?

and roomtofly, you are 100% correct more competition = lower prices....that helps all of us. Please let a reputable magazine test the bike before you bash the hell out of it based on zero facts ..... let someone that actually tests bikes for a living give an unbiased opinion on what appears to be an 05-08 CRF450 being assembled somewhere else. Looks like Honda is still making the parts and selling them to another company to make extra cash.
CamP
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Colleyville, TX, USA
6/16/2010 11:55am
Applied Clamps are made in California.

The Shop

Lightning78
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6/16/2010 12:11pm
Didn't someone say they used to have them made in china or am i wrong here?
newmann
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6/16/2010 12:40pm
Should be easy to homologate, they'll be making millions of them. Wonder if Honda will take their toys and go home when DC lets one of them line up for a national. LMAO!
TerryB
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Cambridge, MN, USA
6/16/2010 1:12pm
Just like the plethora of crf50 clones, I bet there are alot of Honda parts that will bolt right on.
Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX, USA
6/16/2010 1:33pm
If that thing is priced right in line w/ say a well used 2006 CRF450R they will sell a lot of them. I think most hobbyist will buy new Chinese bike over a used Japanese bike if it looks about the same and one is new and one isn't.

Also the bike doesn't have to have comparable in specs and performance to a 2011. Only needs to match a well worn in 2006ish model.

I rode a 2002 CRF recently. It was really a pile even though this example was in good shape. Should be easy for them to equal something like that.
zookrider62!
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Plano, TX, USA
6/16/2010 1:36pm Edited Date/Time 6/16/2010 1:37pm
shit, they cant even put graphics on decently, this bike terrifies me. Estimated price 4,999, no thanks
newmann
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6/16/2010 2:46pm
Wonder if it weighs 300 lbs. Should feel light as a feather if it has an extra 50 pounds of centralized mass. What would really be a shitter is if it weighed in less than the 1/8 ton pigs.
Gardner37
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Stuart, FL, USA
6/16/2010 3:11pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:26pm
285lbs dry and $5000 US


I will bet the farm Honda does not make that frame.


Please, all that garbage that came out a few years ago.. pitbikes...notice after 3-4 months they were all in a pile never to be seen again.


How about that carb.... and those forks and shock.


Its one thing to make cheap pitbikes....but its another to rip off a 450 design and pass it off as a legit, durability tested Motocross machine.


Please someone school me.. what am I missing?



sxf138
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Lake Forest, CA, USA
6/16/2010 3:17pm
I wouldnt want my face showing in the video either
hacker 522
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Orangeville, PA, USA
6/16/2010 5:15pm
first company in history that can run " bold new graphics guaranteed to last the life of the bike" ad campaign.
mop
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Fountain Valley, CA, USA
6/16/2010 6:32pm
Of course this bike is garbage, but that is not the point. The point is that an inexpensive, entry level motocross bike that will bring new consumers into our sport who would otherwise never buy an mx bike is a positive. I'm sure that these gems will run for a limited amount of time, then self-destruct, but by then, the rider will be hooked and will beg, borrow or steal enough money to get a real mx bike! I once told a non-riding friend that motocross is not that big in the total picture. If MX was as popular as basketball, we would have 100 James Stewart level riders, and 10 more that were a step ahead (imagine THAT?!?!?). If our sport grows because a new, lower income consumer base enters, then more tracks will (should) open due to demand. If (and that is a big if) these bikes get more and more popular, then some smart guy will start making aftermarket parts for them that improve them and get rich......or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Hmmm...Never mind.
user760a
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Shelby, NC, USA
6/16/2010 8:18pm
all of the best products are always made in china. I think it is because they put so much time into making everything just so...
DrSweden
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Stockholm, SE
6/16/2010 8:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:26pm
If only they copied a smoker, they would prolly hold together better? Imagine buying the moulds (?) from the CR250 and do some new design and sell those for like 3k?


Smile

(CR125, but you get the picture)
Gazza
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NZ
6/16/2010 8:54pm
Im probably in a better position than any of you to comment on this, I work in China, designing motocross bikes... albeit, not for a Chinese company.

Unfortunately, due to the great firewall of China, I can't actually view the vids in this thread, but I can still comment on the general quality of Chinese bikes.

First off, the chinese manufacturers don't care so much about high performance, all that concerns them is high quantities, in my city alone over 8million bikes are produced each year.

Then we have the chinese market, it's a hell of a lot bigger market than the US, and the people don't demand the high performance and quality that us westerners expect.

Now in terms of the quality, I have been to some amazing places and seen parts produced to the highest standard. It's not that they cant do it, it's just that there is no need. For the bikes my company is designing, it has taken a long time to set up a supplier base purely because most say 'Why would I make 5 or 10 thousand units to a very high tolerance when I can make 100000 for a Chinese company with very loose tolerances.'

So the problem actually is with the engineers, not the manufacturers. If any of the large firms decide they want to raise their game and compete with the Japs, or if any new players come in with huge capital then we will see the entire industry up its game.

But most of these guys are pretty small fish and the chinese won't be taking over the industry just yet, but they have all the systems and capabilites should they chose to, it's just about when..

Hut
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6/16/2010 8:59pm
It's garbage, don't care if it does lower prices, fuck them commie bastards!
CamP
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Colleyville, TX, USA
6/16/2010 8:59pm
As long as the Chinese focus on high production numbers instead of quality, they will continue to sell us disposable shit.
TerryK
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CA
6/16/2010 9:02pm
#2 and #6?? Lammy and MC back together at last!!
OSJ
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Victoria, B.C, CA
6/16/2010 9:43pm
Gardner37 wrote:
285lbs dry and $5000 US I will bet the farm Honda does not make that frame. Please, all that garbage that came out a few years...
285lbs dry and $5000 US


I will bet the farm Honda does not make that frame.


Please, all that garbage that came out a few years ago.. pitbikes...notice after 3-4 months they were all in a pile never to be seen again.


How about that carb.... and those forks and shock.


Its one thing to make cheap pitbikes....but its another to rip off a 450 design and pass it off as a legit, durability tested Motocross machine.


Please someone school me.. what am I missing?



as far as the pitbikes go, the only thing left honda or kawi is the cases. everything else on all the higherend race bikes are made in china(aftermarket).

i am not saying i would buy a china big bike now, but maybe in a few years when they are even better.
TerryB
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Location
Cambridge, MN, USA
6/16/2010 9:53pm
Gazza wrote:
Im probably in a better position than any of you to comment on this, I work in China, designing motocross bikes... albeit, not for a Chinese...
Im probably in a better position than any of you to comment on this, I work in China, designing motocross bikes... albeit, not for a Chinese company.

Unfortunately, due to the great firewall of China, I can't actually view the vids in this thread, but I can still comment on the general quality of Chinese bikes.

First off, the chinese manufacturers don't care so much about high performance, all that concerns them is high quantities, in my city alone over 8million bikes are produced each year.

Then we have the chinese market, it's a hell of a lot bigger market than the US, and the people don't demand the high performance and quality that us westerners expect.

Now in terms of the quality, I have been to some amazing places and seen parts produced to the highest standard. It's not that they cant do it, it's just that there is no need. For the bikes my company is designing, it has taken a long time to set up a supplier base purely because most say 'Why would I make 5 or 10 thousand units to a very high tolerance when I can make 100000 for a Chinese company with very loose tolerances.'

So the problem actually is with the engineers, not the manufacturers. If any of the large firms decide they want to raise their game and compete with the Japs, or if any new players come in with huge capital then we will see the entire industry up its game.

But most of these guys are pretty small fish and the chinese won't be taking over the industry just yet, but they have all the systems and capabilites should they chose to, it's just about when..

Thanks for the insight.

BTW, ATK?
6/16/2010 9:54pm Edited Date/Time 6/16/2010 9:55pm
mop wrote:
Of course this bike is garbage, but that is not the point. The point is that an inexpensive, entry level motocross bike that will bring new...
Of course this bike is garbage, but that is not the point. The point is that an inexpensive, entry level motocross bike that will bring new consumers into our sport who would otherwise never buy an mx bike is a positive. I'm sure that these gems will run for a limited amount of time, then self-destruct, but by then, the rider will be hooked and will beg, borrow or steal enough money to get a real mx bike! I once told a non-riding friend that motocross is not that big in the total picture. If MX was as popular as basketball, we would have 100 James Stewart level riders, and 10 more that were a step ahead (imagine THAT?!?!?). If our sport grows because a new, lower income consumer base enters, then more tracks will (should) open due to demand. If (and that is a big if) these bikes get more and more popular, then some smart guy will start making aftermarket parts for them that improve them and get rich......or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Hmmm...Never mind.
I agree with all of that especially the 100 JS's part.
zookrider62!
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Plano, TX, USA
6/17/2010 6:04am
mop wrote:
Of course this bike is garbage, but that is not the point. The point is that an inexpensive, entry level motocross bike that will bring new...
Of course this bike is garbage, but that is not the point. The point is that an inexpensive, entry level motocross bike that will bring new consumers into our sport who would otherwise never buy an mx bike is a positive. I'm sure that these gems will run for a limited amount of time, then self-destruct, but by then, the rider will be hooked and will beg, borrow or steal enough money to get a real mx bike! I once told a non-riding friend that motocross is not that big in the total picture. If MX was as popular as basketball, we would have 100 James Stewart level riders, and 10 more that were a step ahead (imagine THAT?!?!?). If our sport grows because a new, lower income consumer base enters, then more tracks will (should) open due to demand. If (and that is a big if) these bikes get more and more popular, then some smart guy will start making aftermarket parts for them that improve them and get rich......or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Hmmm...Never mind.
wait, so you think that someone who drops 5 grand on a POS bike will run back to the sport when his bike grenades 3 months into owning it?
roomtofly
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Shreveport, LA, USA
6/17/2010 6:21am
Thanks for the post Gazza. Between electric KTMs and Chinese knock-offs the Japs should be worried, and I'm glad.
mop
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13
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Location
Fountain Valley, CA, USA
6/17/2010 11:53am
mop wrote:
Of course this bike is garbage, but that is not the point. The point is that an inexpensive, entry level motocross bike that will bring new...
Of course this bike is garbage, but that is not the point. The point is that an inexpensive, entry level motocross bike that will bring new consumers into our sport who would otherwise never buy an mx bike is a positive. I'm sure that these gems will run for a limited amount of time, then self-destruct, but by then, the rider will be hooked and will beg, borrow or steal enough money to get a real mx bike! I once told a non-riding friend that motocross is not that big in the total picture. If MX was as popular as basketball, we would have 100 James Stewart level riders, and 10 more that were a step ahead (imagine THAT?!?!?). If our sport grows because a new, lower income consumer base enters, then more tracks will (should) open due to demand. If (and that is a big if) these bikes get more and more popular, then some smart guy will start making aftermarket parts for them that improve them and get rich......or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Hmmm...Never mind.
wait, so you think that someone who drops 5 grand on a POS bike will run back to the sport when his bike grenades 3 months...
wait, so you think that someone who drops 5 grand on a POS bike will run back to the sport when his bike grenades 3 months into owning it?
uh.....well, yeah! When I started riding, I was so hooked, I would do anything to keep doing it. That was the point I was trying to make. The situation you wrote is pretty bad, I know, but a kid doesn't think about it like an adult. If I were a parent that experienced that, I would never do it again, but a kid just knows he had fun and will keep bugging his dad to keep it going.
Along the lines of what you just said, think about this: modern 4 stroke mxers require alot of know how and money to participate in this sport. Let's say a total novice to the sport buys a new CRF250 for his beginner kid. He immediately crashes, bends the bars and breaks the lever. He goes to the shop and learns that new bars (Renthal stock) cost $100! and the lever is $10, whatever. Then he keeps riding, never reads the manual or talks to anyone for advice. Soon he runs dirt thru the airfilter (that he never cleaned) or just never changes the oil, and the bike blows up (probably longer than 3 months cuz it's a Japanese bike). Now he has a $7000.00 POS! This sport is super expensive! But we keep doing it because we are stupid and it is alot of fun!
zookrider62!
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6825
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Location
Plano, TX, USA
6/17/2010 12:18pm
mop wrote:
Of course this bike is garbage, but that is not the point. The point is that an inexpensive, entry level motocross bike that will bring new...
Of course this bike is garbage, but that is not the point. The point is that an inexpensive, entry level motocross bike that will bring new consumers into our sport who would otherwise never buy an mx bike is a positive. I'm sure that these gems will run for a limited amount of time, then self-destruct, but by then, the rider will be hooked and will beg, borrow or steal enough money to get a real mx bike! I once told a non-riding friend that motocross is not that big in the total picture. If MX was as popular as basketball, we would have 100 James Stewart level riders, and 10 more that were a step ahead (imagine THAT?!?!?). If our sport grows because a new, lower income consumer base enters, then more tracks will (should) open due to demand. If (and that is a big if) these bikes get more and more popular, then some smart guy will start making aftermarket parts for them that improve them and get rich......or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Hmmm...Never mind.
wait, so you think that someone who drops 5 grand on a POS bike will run back to the sport when his bike grenades 3 months...
wait, so you think that someone who drops 5 grand on a POS bike will run back to the sport when his bike grenades 3 months into owning it?
mop wrote:
uh.....well, yeah! When I started riding, I was so hooked, I would do anything to keep doing it. That was the point I was trying to...
uh.....well, yeah! When I started riding, I was so hooked, I would do anything to keep doing it. That was the point I was trying to make. The situation you wrote is pretty bad, I know, but a kid doesn't think about it like an adult. If I were a parent that experienced that, I would never do it again, but a kid just knows he had fun and will keep bugging his dad to keep it going.
Along the lines of what you just said, think about this: modern 4 stroke mxers require alot of know how and money to participate in this sport. Let's say a total novice to the sport buys a new CRF250 for his beginner kid. He immediately crashes, bends the bars and breaks the lever. He goes to the shop and learns that new bars (Renthal stock) cost $100! and the lever is $10, whatever. Then he keeps riding, never reads the manual or talks to anyone for advice. Soon he runs dirt thru the airfilter (that he never cleaned) or just never changes the oil, and the bike blows up (probably longer than 3 months cuz it's a Japanese bike). Now he has a $7000.00 POS! This sport is super expensive! But we keep doing it because we are stupid and it is alot of fun!
the scenario you mentioned, they would never ride again. Just like someone who buys a chinese bike and watches it fall apart every ride. Or worse, someone buys a chinese bike and it breaks in half causing serious injury. Either way they would be completely over the sport
RACEGUY
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Moncton, CA
6/17/2010 12:22pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
American made 450 Motocross bikes here. They don't look bad I have to say.

http://www.ushighland.com/
American made...except for some incedentals like the motor and various other attachments such as brakes and wheels and suspension...

Not Chinese, though!
Hut
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6/17/2010 12:29pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
American made 450 Motocross bikes here. They don't look bad I have to say.

http://www.ushighland.com/
Interesting

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