Stark Varg is just a Toy

Magoofan
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Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA, USA
10/16/2024 5:55pm

Branch Stark Vargians out in full force here

Hilarious title.... that has to stick.🤣

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14
10/16/2024 6:34pm
Dirtydeeds wrote:

Shit, and here I thought all dirt bikes were toys

NV825 wrote:

Did you just assume a role for your bikes!?

Read it again, it says all dirt bikes are toys not all dikes are boys. 

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vdrsnk04
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10/16/2024 6:55pm
Smith246 wrote:
I weigh around 95kg so I new this was going to increase battery usage a bit. I'm willing to accept my battery range given all my...

I weigh around 95kg so I new this was going to increase battery usage a bit. I'm willing to accept my battery range given all my circumstances. If I could go out and get 20 mins solid at any hp and regen setting I wanted then I'd be ok with that. I would like longer because I hear these stories of how long other people get but it is what it is.

vdrsnk04 wrote:
I retract my first statement in this thread now knowing that info. From my testing on my Stark, a persons body weight has a big effect...

I retract my first statement in this thread now knowing that info. From my testing on my Stark, a persons body weight has a big effect on battery range. 

Smith246 wrote:
Looks like its time for me to loose some weight 🤣Do you think running a scoop tyre would help or hurt battery life? On one side...

Looks like its time for me to loose some weight 🤣

Do you think running a scoop tyre would help or hurt battery life? On one side it will get more traction and probably create more load but on the other it will lessen wheel spin which may help.

lol I didn’t mean that my bad!


Hmm good question, your philosophy behind that thought makes sense to me. Although I’ve never been a scoop guy even in the beach sand I ride, I still prefer the mx34. But that’s so subjective for people. 

The Shop

Smith246
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Jerramungup, WA, AU
10/16/2024 10:10pm
ando wrote:

Totally off topic…

Do you ride at Southern Cross?  Is the MX track at Norseman still open?

Nah have never ridden Southern Cross and not sure about the Norseman track sorry.

When I was racing i mainly rode the Southwest series but I don't race too much anymore and just ride local tracks.

Smith246
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10/16/2024 10:13pm
MxAddic wrote:

That looks like beach sand. The front tire is plowing the whole time.

Yeah it is basically beach sand, we call it drift sand. It's mainly the soft top soil blown off all our paddocks. It's almost like powder when it dries out but is awesome during the winter when wet.

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Motofinne
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10/16/2024 10:45pm
7eleven wrote:
Less regen will definitely help your cause. Zero it out and crank out another moto. This is all part of understanding this technology and how to...

Less regen will definitely help your cause. Zero it out and crank out another moto. This is all part of understanding this technology and how to have it perform its best in whatever conditions you have. 

I live in the land of perfect dirt, here in TX. At 50% regen and 55hp, I will smash 30min moto's all day. When outside temps were high 80's, usually around the 3rd moto I would see the heat light pop on. Outside temps are finally coming down now and the heat light is no longer coming on. 

Smith246 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback I will definitely try the less regen for sure. I am still not sold less regen will somehow gain me 50% more...

Thanks for the feedback I will definitely try the less regen for sure. I am still not sold less regen will somehow gain me 50% more battery life. I hope it can help with the heating issue but.

When you say perfect dirt what do you mean? I can see this lasting 30 mins in dirt like softish loam. I think people's idea of what sand is must vary alot.

Your last centence is the issue here. The talk about a fairly quick rider being able to do full motos on a proper sand track with full (or close to full) power is just false. These people have very strange definitions of what a sand track is and/or they completely overestimate their actual riding level.

I love everything about the Stark bike, but every single real life anecdote from a proper sand track with a good rider on the bike results in 20-25 minute motos at the maximum in its current state. Now for most people that is enough, because you need to be in really good shape to do over 20 minutes on a proper sand track with some deformation.

Personally the range is most likely good enough for me, and that is why i will most likely buy one in 1-2 years time.

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Smith246
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10/16/2024 11:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/16/2024 11:45pm

So here is my last response from Stark. It sounds like it is a known issue and maybe if I'm lucky they may be able to fix it one day. But if I was aware of this before I may not have purchased it. I was well aware of my battery life not being great and that was something I was willing to accept. What I was not aware of and there is not much information about at all is the bike derating quiet quickly under certain conditions. I believe Stark should be making this more clear to potential buyers.

After all this I still won't rag on the bike in the actual riding aspect, actually the complete opposite. The bike is absolutely awesome to ride. I just hope this may help anyone on the fence about buying one who rides the sort of sand I do. I really hope Stark can fix this issue but I hope in the meantime they can inform potential buyers before purchasing. Screenshot 20241017-134316 Gmail.jpg?VersionId=tR99VS0.C.p2NCIWdwteuolpS.P

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MxAddic
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10/17/2024 4:23am
Smith246 wrote:
So here is my last response from Stark. It sounds like it is a known issue and maybe if I'm lucky they may be able to...

So here is my last response from Stark. It sounds like it is a known issue and maybe if I'm lucky they may be able to fix it one day. But if I was aware of this before I may not have purchased it. I was well aware of my battery life not being great and that was something I was willing to accept. What I was not aware of and there is not much information about at all is the bike derating quiet quickly under certain conditions. I believe Stark should be making this more clear to potential buyers.

After all this I still won't rag on the bike in the actual riding aspect, actually the complete opposite. The bike is absolutely awesome to ride. I just hope this may help anyone on the fence about buying one who rides the sort of sand I do. I really hope Stark can fix this issue but I hope in the meantime they can inform potential buyers before purchasing. Screenshot 20241017-134316 Gmail.jpg?VersionId=tR99VS0.C.p2NCIWdwteuolpS.P

The old Anton shim. Who could have predicted? 🤣

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Smith246
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10/17/2024 5:43am
vdrsnk04 wrote:
I retract my first statement in this thread now knowing that info. From my testing on my Stark, a persons body weight has a big effect...

I retract my first statement in this thread now knowing that info. From my testing on my Stark, a persons body weight has a big effect on battery range. 

Smith246 wrote:
Looks like its time for me to loose some weight 🤣Do you think running a scoop tyre would help or hurt battery life? On one side...

Looks like its time for me to loose some weight 🤣

Do you think running a scoop tyre would help or hurt battery life? On one side it will get more traction and probably create more load but on the other it will lessen wheel spin which may help.

vdrsnk04 wrote:
lol I didn’t mean that my bad!Hmm good question, your philosophy behind that thought makes sense to me. Although I’ve never been a scoop guy even...

lol I didn’t mean that my bad!


Hmm good question, your philosophy behind that thought makes sense to me. Although I’ve never been a scoop guy even in the beach sand I ride, I still prefer the mx34. But that’s so subjective for people. 

Ha ha all good, I was actually having a little dig at myself. I've packed on a few unwanted kg's in the last year that I'm not happy about. This might be the kick in the ass I need 🤣

But about the scoop tyre, it will be something I'll have to test in the future for sure. 

1
10/17/2024 7:07am

Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to the bike. Air cooling was never going to cut it. But adding a system like that will add weight, which means they'll need to cut weight somewhere else.

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5
soggy
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10/17/2024 7:26am
Rosso391 wrote:
Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to...

Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to the bike. Air cooling was never going to cut it. But adding a system like that will add weight, which means they'll need to cut weight somewhere else.

I believe it already has a radiator for cooling. 

Interested to see OP results after a lowering regen. It could have a significant impact I think. 

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Smith246
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10/17/2024 7:34am
Rosso391 wrote:
Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to...

Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to the bike. Air cooling was never going to cut it. But adding a system like that will add weight, which means they'll need to cut weight somewhere else.

soggy wrote:

I believe it already has a radiator for cooling. 

Interested to see OP results after a lowering regen. It could have a significant impact I think. 

It has a radiator for cooling the powertrain but the battery is air cooled.

Tested lower regen today, it did make a bit of a difference but it still derated. Will post up more info on the ride tomorrow if you are interested? It's too late where I am now ha ha.

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10/17/2024 7:45am
Rosso391 wrote:
Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to...

Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to the bike. Air cooling was never going to cut it. But adding a system like that will add weight, which means they'll need to cut weight somewhere else.

soggy wrote:

I believe it already has a radiator for cooling. 

Interested to see OP results after a lowering regen. It could have a significant impact I think. 

Not for cooling the battery though...

soggy
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10/17/2024 8:26am
Rosso391 wrote:
Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to...

Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to the bike. Air cooling was never going to cut it. But adding a system like that will add weight, which means they'll need to cut weight somewhere else.

soggy wrote:

I believe it already has a radiator for cooling. 

Interested to see OP results after a lowering regen. It could have a significant impact I think. 

Smith246 wrote:
It has a radiator for cooling the powertrain but the battery is air cooled.Tested lower regen today, it did make a bit of a difference but...

It has a radiator for cooling the powertrain but the battery is air cooled.

Tested lower regen today, it did make a bit of a difference but it still derated. Will post up more info on the ride tomorrow if you are interested? It's too late where I am now ha ha.

yea for sure, its good for everyone to share your experience.  Sounds like stark is working on integrating  cooling system into the battery perhaps?  

1
10/17/2024 8:49am
7eleven wrote:
Less regen will definitely help your cause. Zero it out and crank out another moto. This is all part of understanding this technology and how to...

Less regen will definitely help your cause. Zero it out and crank out another moto. This is all part of understanding this technology and how to have it perform its best in whatever conditions you have. 

I live in the land of perfect dirt, here in TX. At 50% regen and 55hp, I will smash 30min moto's all day. When outside temps were high 80's, usually around the 3rd moto I would see the heat light pop on. Outside temps are finally coming down now and the heat light is no longer coming on. 

Smith246 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback I will definitely try the less regen for sure. I am still not sold less regen will somehow gain me 50% more...

Thanks for the feedback I will definitely try the less regen for sure. I am still not sold less regen will somehow gain me 50% more battery life. I hope it can help with the heating issue but.

When you say perfect dirt what do you mean? I can see this lasting 30 mins in dirt like softish loam. I think people's idea of what sand is must vary alot.

Motofinne wrote:
Your last centence is the issue here. The talk about a fairly quick rider being able to do full motos on a proper sand track with...

Your last centence is the issue here. The talk about a fairly quick rider being able to do full motos on a proper sand track with full (or close to full) power is just false. These people have very strange definitions of what a sand track is and/or they completely overestimate their actual riding level.

I love everything about the Stark bike, but every single real life anecdote from a proper sand track with a good rider on the bike results in 20-25 minute motos at the maximum in its current state. Now for most people that is enough, because you need to be in really good shape to do over 20 minutes on a proper sand track with some deformation.

Personally the range is most likely good enough for me, and that is why i will most likely buy one in 1-2 years time.

The rider/poster 7eleven Austin Squires has raced a lot of nationals and scored points at Southwick. He is a Vet rider now. Anybody that has lived in New England has ridden on one of the deep sand practice tracks that existed in old sand pits or the private ones. Sand that is bottomless and more like beach sand. Not with a harder base like Southwick.   

 

 And that was the type of stuff I was wondering from the start if it may be a weak spot for an electric. I rode  my CRF450 for the first time in one of those dep sand pit tracks and hated it . I regrated buying one and kept my trusty CR250 around for a while. After riding it on a harder surface and getting it setup better for me, I loved it.   I liked the free feeling of the 2 stroke better in the sand. The engine braking resulted in stalling a lot at first.  I don't know why somebody would prefer more of that when they can reduce it and also increase the ride time.  But that's  a cool thing about electric. You can change it.    

10/17/2024 9:15am
Rosso391 wrote:
Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to...

Regardless of what I think of EV Bikes. Stark will figure it out. Sounds like they're going to need to add a radiator cooling system to the bike. Air cooling was never going to cut it. But adding a system like that will add weight, which means they'll need to cut weight somewhere else.

soggy wrote:

I believe it already has a radiator for cooling. 

Interested to see OP results after a lowering regen. It could have a significant impact I think. 

Smith246 wrote:
It has a radiator for cooling the powertrain but the battery is air cooled.Tested lower regen today, it did make a bit of a difference but...

It has a radiator for cooling the powertrain but the battery is air cooled.

Tested lower regen today, it did make a bit of a difference but it still derated. Will post up more info on the ride tomorrow if you are interested? It's too late where I am now ha ha.

How much less regen did You try?  In deep sand , why do you want so much regen?  To feel more like a 4 stroke?   With the heat issue derating the power and still sometimes still having over 50% of the charge left.  Why not try it with 0 regen and see if it helps with the heat a lot?  I doubt regen is really adding much power back to the battery on that style track. And since You have a heat problem more than a battery capacity problem  it should help more than it would hurt. 

   If You turn off the regen totally and can get the battery  down low enough that it starts to cut power because of the battery running low, then turn the regen back up to find a happy medium. 

 

If You have never tried it with 0 regen, try it and You might like it better?  Might help you carry more momentum . The only time I have on a Varg was with 0 regen on a hardpack( for New England) style surface. 

The poster 7eleven  has a lot of time on a Varg and was saying it should make a big impact. He was a local Pro in New England in the 2000's that won a local NESC race at Southwick against guys that had top 3, top 5 and top 10 finishes in the National at Southwick.  His  best finish for a season  in the Nationals was 28th  in the big bike class .   I only see a couple rounds of SX that he made mains in  .   

 

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MxAddic
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10/17/2024 9:20am Edited Date/Time 10/17/2024 9:20am

Turtleneck Guy claimed his toy was superior to ICE in every way. He is a liar and a fraud, PERIOD. Some folks just love being lied to.

  

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18
LungButter
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10/17/2024 9:34am
MxAddic wrote:
Turtleneck Guy claimed his toy was superior to ICE in every way. He is a liar and a fraud, PERIOD. Some folks just love being lied...

Turtleneck Guy claimed his toy was superior to ICE in every way. He is a liar and a fraud, PERIOD. Some folks just love being lied to.

  

I just love how outraged you are about it.  Did your old lady run off with a dude with a turtle neck or what?

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2
10/17/2024 10:08am
MxAddic wrote:
Turtleneck Guy claimed his toy was superior to ICE in every way. He is a liar and a fraud, PERIOD. Some folks just love being lied...

Turtleneck Guy claimed his toy was superior to ICE in every way. He is a liar and a fraud, PERIOD. Some folks just love being lied to.

  

LungButter wrote:

I just love how outraged you are about it.  Did your old lady run off with a dude with a turtle neck or what?

I think the 2 other  guys that were in that class he podiumed were wearing Turtlenecks.   Its not the bike he hates, or the shirt itself , its The Turtle.  A nickname given to him in Highschool that has some tragic memories attached.    

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1
10/17/2024 10:41am
MxAddic wrote:
Turtleneck Guy claimed his toy was superior to ICE in every way. He is a liar and a fraud, PERIOD. Some folks just love being lied...

Turtleneck Guy claimed his toy was superior to ICE in every way. He is a liar and a fraud, PERIOD. Some folks just love being lied to.

  

So because 1 guy is having some unusual problems in a very specific  situation , NOTHINING is true about the Varg?   Should we assume that if somebody on here makes a mistake or 2 when posting info, that nothing they ever said was true?      

 I'm glad that there are some people on here that have been trying to help the guy out. And not just pile on and help fuel the disappointment. 

 But really there is nothing that will do everything the best. If there was, there would only be a single brand and model of that thing available.  Not a wide range of  brands and models that work better in different situations for different riders.  I would think that it would be obvious to anybody that looks into a Varg where they can expect it to "be the best".  Being the best, just means You did better than the competition in some sort of evaluation.  By looking at what Stark shows to prove their statements You can see where it may excel.   

 

 Its really a bummer that the OP has the issue he has.  There has to be some way of getting his bike to run cooler. Perhaps the aftermarket will come up with something? Or V 2 of the Varg will work on that. 

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soggy
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10/17/2024 10:51am

Did a Stark Vary fuck mxaddic’s boyfriend or something?

His hatred seems very personal. 

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LungButter
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10/17/2024 11:00am
soggy wrote:

Did a Stark Vary fuck mxaddic’s boyfriend or something?

His hatred seems very personal. 

Maybe we should cut him some slack, at one point he did say he was trying to stop childhood slavery by not riding an Electric bike so maybe his hatred is fueled by a burning desire to do good in the world.

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Toste
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Fantasy
10/17/2024 11:05am

I am pro e-moto and would own a Stark Vark (although not as my one and only bike) if I could afford it.

BUT... I really don't understand why the Stark leadership is so insistent on racing with gas bikes at the pro level when it's clear the bike could not do a full moto with a national caliber rider aboard.

For their own good, it seems like they should be advocating for a separate class/series with conditions that are more favorable to their bike.

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soggy
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10/17/2024 11:16am
Toste wrote:
I am pro e-moto and would own a Stark Vark (although not as my one and only bike) if I could afford it.BUT... I really don't...

I am pro e-moto and would own a Stark Vark (although not as my one and only bike) if I could afford it.

BUT... I really don't understand why the Stark leadership is so insistent on racing with gas bikes at the pro level when it's clear the bike could not do a full moto with a national caliber rider aboard.

For their own good, it seems like they should be advocating for a separate class/series with conditions that are more favorable to their bike.

It’d be much harder to start, fund, and field there own series. There’s so many hang ups, it’s just not practical. They are a manufacturer not a promoter.

It sounds like the varg would struggle with two 30’s but it would handle SX. 

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10/17/2024 11:57am
Toste wrote:
I am pro e-moto and would own a Stark Vark (although not as my one and only bike) if I could afford it.BUT... I really don't...

I am pro e-moto and would own a Stark Vark (although not as my one and only bike) if I could afford it.

BUT... I really don't understand why the Stark leadership is so insistent on racing with gas bikes at the pro level when it's clear the bike could not do a full moto with a national caliber rider aboard.

For their own good, it seems like they should be advocating for a separate class/series with conditions that are more favorable to their bike.

soggy wrote:
It’d be much harder to start, fund, and field there own series. There’s so many hang ups, it’s just not practical. They are a manufacturer not...

It’d be much harder to start, fund, and field there own series. There’s so many hang ups, it’s just not practical. They are a manufacturer not a promoter.

It sounds like the varg would struggle with two 30’s but it would handle SX. 

You sure? I highly doubt it will do 20 minutes plus 2 on an AMA SX track ridden by a top 10 rider. It would either overheat or run out of juice.

Obviously, forget about outdoors. It would do great in arenacross though.

10/17/2024 11:57am
Smith246 wrote:
So here is my last response from Stark. It sounds like it is a known issue and maybe if I'm lucky they may be able to...

So here is my last response from Stark. It sounds like it is a known issue and maybe if I'm lucky they may be able to fix it one day. But if I was aware of this before I may not have purchased it. I was well aware of my battery life not being great and that was something I was willing to accept. What I was not aware of and there is not much information about at all is the bike derating quiet quickly under certain conditions. I believe Stark should be making this more clear to potential buyers.

After all this I still won't rag on the bike in the actual riding aspect, actually the complete opposite. The bike is absolutely awesome to ride. I just hope this may help anyone on the fence about buying one who rides the sort of sand I do. I really hope Stark can fix this issue but I hope in the meantime they can inform potential buyers before purchasing. Screenshot 20241017-134316 Gmail.jpg?VersionId=tR99VS0.C.p2NCIWdwteuolpS.P

Maybe it's a good idea to wait for the next generation Varg.

2
Beagle
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10/17/2024 11:58am Edited Date/Time 10/17/2024 2:12pm
soggy wrote:
It’d be much harder to start, fund, and field there own series. There’s so many hang ups, it’s just not practical. They are a manufacturer not...

It’d be much harder to start, fund, and field there own series. There’s so many hang ups, it’s just not practical. They are a manufacturer not a promoter.

It sounds like the varg would struggle with two 30’s but it would handle SX. 

Also they have zero interest racing against themselves, there's no value in that for any manufacturer.

30 min Nationals no but it would have no problem racing SX if it was allowed (racing and winning AX UK, racing and getting on the podium in France SX tour, Tampere SX...). Maybe they'll be allowed to race the international races at Paris this year instead of just the SX tour races?

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byke
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10/17/2024 1:32pm

They've given us everything we need to make informed decisions. 746 watts per horsepower, 80 horsepower is roughly 60,000 watts, battery is 6500 kilowatt hours, which basically means it will run for 6 minutes at full power. Also the lifespan of lithium-ion is greatly affected by the depth of charge and discharge, so if you're someone that uses so much power that you get very short run time, odds are you're going to get short battery life as well. 

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10/17/2024 2:00pm
Smith246 wrote:
Sorry for the long post and I'm probably gonna get some hate for this but I'm just sharing my experience incase it could possibly help someone...

Sorry for the long post and I'm probably gonna get some hate for this but I'm just sharing my experience incase it could possibly help someone else.

I'll start by saying I'm not a lover or a hater of electric, I like everything motocross related and just like trying new things. I've always been curious to try the stark and the recent sale has been enough for me to take the plunge. 

I was very hesitant because I mainly ride deep sand, and the sand is where I feel the stark will suffer the most as far as battery life goes. Anyway I purchased a stark last wknd and took it to my personal sand track for its first try. My track is a very deep fast sand track. 

Well one word to describe my first ride was disappointing. Although the bike was a blast to ride it had a battery warning light come up and was dropping the power after only 10 mins. Another 10 mins of riding slow and dicking around and the battery was empty. I thought maybe the first cycle on the battery is the not the best so I tried again the next day with very similar results. 

I sent an email to stark with my concerns hoping they could log into my bike and see if it is faulty or something. They got back to me and said my bike is fine. So after doing some more research and finding a few others with similar issues it seems that the stark can just not handle deep sand and higher HP settings. 

From all other reports if you are riding hardpack or lower hp settings the bike is probably fine. But to me this bike can not be considered as a serious motocross bike if it can't be ridden by a B grade Vet motocross rider in 60hp on a sand track, it is just a toy. 

Love this, what you have done here is accepted that times are changing and made a purchase to support the future path of our sport, not taken sides not jumped on bandwagons just had a open mind and embraced what the future may be, basically wanting to believe in the sports future! 
Then You have gave a honest review of you experience, A rider talking to other riders! You never condemn electric once you simply say it may not be what we where led to believe and gave a unbiased opinion to other every day riders to consider! 

You gave a honest opinion from a honest source I believe, Motocross is a challenge of skill over many terrains it isn’t a for gone conclusion and if the kit can’t do the job over the whole spectrum then maybe it’s not the kit to have YET! 

MY MAN!

 

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