19-22 or 23-24 KTM 350SX-F --- Which to buy if you're finally going to get your "350F" fix?

Rider 5280 wrote:

Well guys, I was able to squeeze in another 1-hour MX ride tonight on the new-to-me, all stock 2022 KTM 350 SX-F.Current thoughts:(1) Still...

Well guys, I was able to squeeze in another 1-hour MX ride tonight on the new-to-me, all stock 2022 KTM 350 SX-F.


Current thoughts:

(1) Still loving the neutral, versatile handling that corners EXTREMELY well. Makes me feel like I don't suck. As bad. 😁

(2) I discovered the front wheel was VERY loose upon inspection after my first ride ---> Guess what? It helped handling! NO KIDDING. FCP --- are you hearing this? MAKE MORE FLEXIBILE WHEEL COLLARS like Yamaha played around with --- it works (this may be a perfect application for titanium)! I tightened things up before this ride and lost some of the sweet turning / not twitchy charm. The tightened-up front end definitely had more twitch to it, but still not terrible. Plus, the track was rough today, for sure.

(3) The engine is growing on me, but originally I was a little underwhelmed (preferring Map 2, no traction control) ... but ...

(4) Today I tried the TZR-programmed OEM ECU. Dayuuuum it's nice! At this time, this is the only mod on the bike, but I am very surprised at the level of performance improvement this resulted in. Not only does the bike start quicker + run more crisply all around + more stall proof, but TZR Map 1 = OEM Map 2 + 5-10%, and TZR Map 2 = OEM Map 2 + 10-15%. The bike sounds different and throatier/torquier, too - and it is. I am getting pretty happy with this engine at this point and expect a full exhaust system to round out the package nicely. And this was only a $110 modification! SO, SOOOOOO WORTH IT. If the Twisted Development mapped Vortex is even better, then I can start seeing myself joining the Church of 350 and tithing.

(5) With the TZR-mapped stock ECU, I actually really like traction control (TC) now. Especially with Map 2 - which is a bit prone to breaking loose. Never thought I'd say that, but I like TC. They've clearly put in a lot of effort to smooth the intervention when runaway RPM is sensed making it feel natural ---> I wonder if TZR modified this?

(6) The Brembo brakes, front and rear, are remarkably good. I am actually surprised how good they are. I've wasted sooooo much $$$ experimenting on my Japanese bikes to get brakes this good (multiple Motostuff V2 calipers + multiple Ride Engineering V2s chasing this feel!). Live & learn. The ergos of the bike enable better use of the brakes, too, no 2 ways about it.

(7) I'm getting better at dialing-in the WP AER forks and they are good, but not amazing like KYB SSS or KYB PSF-1 A-kit air forks (PSF-1s run ~ 35 psi vs. ~ 150 psi in AER forks --- waaay higher friction and tougher to tune for suppleness at those pressures). However, the bottoming resistance is outstanding. I overjumped the heck out of a tabletop tonight (because the TZR ECU is soooo damn good!) and landed on flat hardpack and expected bad things. I cracked the throttle just before landing to load the front a little less and it worked well and my confidence in the forks ratcheted up a tad (but I am still hesitant about jumps I don't think twice about on my KYB SSS forks). KYB-converted forks are in transit now - thanks CraigD!

(8) I need to do something about the additional vibration. As stated previously, FasstCo Impact pegs are on the menu (I have a set on hand), but I think XC Gear's MAKO 360 mounts need to be entertained, too. I just nabbed a MAKO 360 setup as well and plan to install in coming month(s).

(9) I really dig the gearbox / apparent gear integrity. VERY solid shifting, you can feel that it's F1 pedigree (Pankl). This goes a long way for me personally in terms of feeling like the bike is high quality.

(10) I prefer a cable clutch, just better feel to me. The hydraulic clutch is nice, likely leads to better clutch longevity, but cables are hard to beat for feel IMHO.

(11) The ergos of the KTM are great, but I honestly don't understand how 2014-2018 and 2019-2022 Yamaha YZ-Fs get so much bad press. They're ALL good IMHO, each having unique attributes you can leverage. I still laugh at how easily I am influenced to think certain bikes suck because of X or Y or Z. Just like Seth Enslow, "You have some serious issues you need to work out with yourself." <--- Anyone remember that from Crusty Demons? Prophetic.

(12) It is true that revving this bike is helpful in terms of getting around the track efficiently, but I am a fan of minimal chassis loading and gyro effect to preserve good handling, so I strive to ride the torque curve on all bikes I can ---> It seems I can get there with this bike, which was a primary goal

(13) I am still finding that the 350F doesn't wear me out quite as much as a 450F, but the additional vibration in my hands and feet is limiting my endurance.

(14) Nothing beats a 450F, just like nothing beats a 125 2T, 250F, 250 2T, or 300 2T. That said, I am still verrrrrry partial to 450Fs. Brap!

I usually mod the crap out of bikes before ever even riding them, so this journey of "ride it stock and incrementally mod/improve it" is fun and enlightening.
KTMs are different, for sure, but glad I finally tried one so far.
Overall I am really liking this experiment. 

Rider 5280 wrote:

Been working a ton, needed a mental break, took the afternoon off and rode 3 hours of singletrack at Rampart Range in Colorado today. Amazing weather...

Been working a ton, needed a mental break, took the afternoon off and rode 3 hours of singletrack at Rampart Range in Colorado today. Amazing weather, too!

Here was the configuration for the 2022 KTM 350 SX-F today - it's all stock except for below (I am still easing into the mods on purpose & keeping the bike as light as possible):
(1) FMF Titanium 4.1 RCT silencer with spark arrestor insert installed --- need for public lands, stock header
(2) Installed Acerbis skid plate for off-road (Rampart Range has some gnarly rocks)
(3) Twisted Development tuned Vortex ECU
(4) Installed 12-degree FasstCo Flexxbars + ODI V2 full-diamond grips (effing things still make my fingers go numb, but the convenience was necessary to ride spur-of-the-moment with bar swap) --- the stock bars were low and rigid for me
(5) Flo footpegs - great grip, not too hard on boots
(6) Dunlop MX53 rear, MX33 front
 

Ongoing Ride Report:

(1) Something in the first 30 minutes of riding today caused the fuel-delivery system to go haywire and the bike started bogging really bad on the low-end. Dangerous! Both times this behavior was triggered by sudden braking/slow-down events when I encountered other riders on the trail. In each case, normal fuel delivery would resume after ~ 5-10 minutes of riding, but man was I pissed. This type of thing is EXACTLY why I steered clear of KTMs for years --- literally. I read here on Vital about this same thing happening to a guy on the face of a jump - and he got seriously hurt as a result. I was ready to pack it up for the day and drive home, assuming things needed more investigation, but to my surprise the bike became rideable again and I seemed to be able to sort of "reset" things by doing a couple of cycles of <kill the engine with the kill switch / restart the engine>. After these 2 events, the bike ran great for the rest of the day. WTF?! I'll look into things more, change the inline fuel filter, and look for loose wires/electricalconnections, but there were never an error codes on the FI light. This very much causes you not to trust the bike, that's for sure. Has anyone here ever experienced this & know what the root cause was (i.e. and fixed it permanently)?

(2) This is hands down the best handling motocross bike I've ever ridden. I think my riding style is "generic" enough and all the work KTM put into creating a versatile, neutral, good handling machine hit the mark - BIG TIME for me. I still cannot believe how good it is in this regard - such flow-y, intuitive handling.

(3) The FMF Titanium 4.1 RCT silencer with spark arrestor insert installed was a pleasant surprise - no power loss, possibly some gain, and additional weight savings. I've got an FMF header for the 250 SX-F I'll be trying soon to get some more low-end (I hope). I'm also going to try a 53-tooth rear sprocket vs. the stock 51-tooth to get a tad more snap. Oh - I am going to try the 2-stroke air filter cage soon (and possibly the whole airboot) as well. I'm really close with the power being right where I want it, just needs more low-end snap to carry wheelies as long as needed at the drop of a hat.

(4) The Twisted Development ECU continues to impress. I've only tried 2 maps (#1 and #2 in below image) --- and they are very good. I've also since picked up a Blais Racing reprogrammed stock ECU since I was so impressed the TZR reprogrammed stock ECU. Yes, I've gone overboard on ECUs, but I honestly would have sold the bike by now had I not tried different ECUs. Without a Vortex or reprogrammed stock ECU, the power wasn't ready for prime time IMHO.

(5) The Brembo brakes - dayuuuum I still really like them. I just bought a few systems to outfit my YZ-Fs with, they are that good for my riding style (and many of you may recall my brake quest with Motostuff V2 billet calipers, Ride Engineering V2 billet calipers, Motostuff 270 and 280 rotors, different master cylinders, on and on and on ... and $$$ on).

(6) Hydraulic clutch - meh. No feel, just on/off. It works, but not a super fan. A cable clutch is the only real way to get the feel I prefer it seems.

(7) The Pankl gearbox really is amazing. Such crisp, positive shifts. The bike does indeed seem to like Motorex 10W50 best. Amsoil 10W50 doesn't shift as smooth. I'm a Maxima guy, so I hope the oil tanker of Maxima 10W50 I just bought is as good as Motorex. The TV show "Hoarders" scares me. Deeply. Enough said.

(8) The stock AER forks combined with FasstCo Flexxbars are a really good combo offroad. I really like the ability to adjust the air spring and I very much use Flexxbars as a spring to preload to lift the front end readily. Great combo, loving it, but do have Enzo KYB cartridge converted spring forks (and shock) that I will try, a set of AEO revalved AER forks that look promising, and Dialed Mfg KYB cartridge lug adapters I'll use to convert the current stock AER forks to try. But as I've said before - these stock AER forks are pretty darn good if you learn their features IMO, and especially so for off-road it seems.

(9) 3 hours of riding almost continuously did "buzz me up" with the extra KTM vibration, but it's not much worse than my experience with Hondas and Yamahas. I'm way less concerned about this than I was initially, but I still have FasstCo Impact pegs I'll be trying that have elastomeric shock/vibe isolation.

(10) The KTM seat is waaaay better than a Yamaha YZ-F seat for me, but not as plush as a Honda CRF's. No complaints at all, just really highlighting the Yamaha's thinness/harshness.

(11) I really do miss the Rekluse RadiusCX 4.0 clutch that I typically install on all bikes I own right away (not on the KTMs though ... yet). I ride the Rekluse just like I ride without it, but love the anti-stall feature and the smooth engagement. It just makes flowing easier. I am enjoying the OEM KTM clutch pack quality, but now realize how well the Rekluse units work.

(12) I've been riding this chassis without a steering stabilizer happily, but plan to add one one anyway. I like to run them on the lower(est) setting to take some of the square edge hack away in terms of jarring the bars sideways suddenly. But truly no complaints with no stabilizer on this chassis, it's quite stable AND hs excellent turning.

(13) I've heard it said you can't ride this 350F like a 450F and lug / short-shift it. This is not the case for me. I ride it like a 450F for the most part and it does very well laying down effective, suuuuuper fun torque.

(14) With the additional chain slack KTM recommends, I am getting quite a bit of frame wear just above the swingarm with the way the chain moves around more. Anyone have a good fix for this?

(15) I've always needed to go to Hammerhead Designs shift levers with +10-mm or +20-mm shift tips for my size 11 boots (Alpinestars Tech 10s and Gaerne SG-12s) on Honda and Yamahas. Not so on the KTM, the OEM shift lever is perfect.

(16) You do need to check fasteners for looseness regularly on these KTMS. I found 1 engine bracket bolt loose today + 1 handlebar clamp bolt.

(17) I really like how this engine doesn't seem to dirty/breakdown oil quickly like Yamahas (which only hold like ~ 740cc for the engine & tranny). Being able to safely run 5-10-hour oil change intervals = AWESOME! I can only get ~ 3-4 hours on Yamahas. Believe it or not - this is a big deal to me. It's the difference between getting a random ride in like today or not (largely attributable to the excellent clutch IMO). My older 2008 Honda CRF450R is good this way, too. 

(18) My ride yesterday highlighted my need to do some shock work. A long series of stutter bumps is giving it fits, so need to explore here. My Yamaha shocks do this at this riding area, too, so I'm not shocked. 

Summary:
Still loving the 2022 KTM 350 SX-F, but I need to get to the bottom of #1 - this is a safety issue.

 

Rider 5280 wrote:

Been working a ton, needed a mental break, took the afternoon off and rode 3 hours of singletrack at Rampart Range in Colorado today. Amazing weather...

Been working a ton, needed a mental break, took the afternoon off and rode 3 hours of singletrack at Rampart Range in Colorado today. Amazing weather, too!

Here was the configuration for the 2022 KTM 350 SX-F today - it's all stock except for below (I am still easing into the mods on purpose & keeping the bike as light as possible):
(1) FMF Titanium 4.1 RCT silencer with spark arrestor insert installed --- need for public lands, stock header
(2) Installed Acerbis skid plate for off-road (Rampart Range has some gnarly rocks)
(3) Twisted Development tuned Vortex ECU
(4) Installed 12-degree FasstCo Flexxbars + ODI V2 full-diamond grips (effing things still make my fingers go numb, but the convenience was necessary to ride spur-of-the-moment with bar swap) --- the stock bars were low and rigid for me
(5) Flo footpegs - great grip, not too hard on boots
(6) Dunlop MX53 rear, MX33 front
 

Ongoing Ride Report:

(1) Something in the first 30 minutes of riding today caused the fuel-delivery system to go haywire and the bike started bogging really bad on the low-end. Dangerous! Both times this behavior was triggered by sudden braking/slow-down events when I encountered other riders on the trail. In each case, normal fuel delivery would resume after ~ 5-10 minutes of riding, but man was I pissed. This type of thing is EXACTLY why I steered clear of KTMs for years --- literally. I read here on Vital about this same thing happening to a guy on the face of a jump - and he got seriously hurt as a result. I was ready to pack it up for the day and drive home, assuming things needed more investigation, but to my surprise the bike became rideable again and I seemed to be able to sort of "reset" things by doing a couple of cycles of <kill the engine with the kill switch / restart the engine>. After these 2 events, the bike ran great for the rest of the day. WTF?! I'll look into things more, change the inline fuel filter, and look for loose wires/electricalconnections, but there were never an error codes on the FI light. This very much causes you not to trust the bike, that's for sure. Has anyone here ever experienced this & know what the root cause was (i.e. and fixed it permanently)?

(2) This is hands down the best handling motocross bike I've ever ridden. I think my riding style is "generic" enough and all the work KTM put into creating a versatile, neutral, good handling machine hit the mark - BIG TIME for me. I still cannot believe how good it is in this regard - such flow-y, intuitive handling.

(3) The FMF Titanium 4.1 RCT silencer with spark arrestor insert installed was a pleasant surprise - no power loss, possibly some gain, and additional weight savings. I've got an FMF header for the 250 SX-F I'll be trying soon to get some more low-end (I hope). I'm also going to try a 53-tooth rear sprocket vs. the stock 51-tooth to get a tad more snap. Oh - I am going to try the 2-stroke air filter cage soon (and possibly the whole airboot) as well. I'm really close with the power being right where I want it, just needs more low-end snap to carry wheelies as long as needed at the drop of a hat.

(4) The Twisted Development ECU continues to impress. I've only tried 2 maps (#1 and #2 in below image) --- and they are very good. I've also since picked up a Blais Racing reprogrammed stock ECU since I was so impressed the TZR reprogrammed stock ECU. Yes, I've gone overboard on ECUs, but I honestly would have sold the bike by now had I not tried different ECUs. Without a Vortex or reprogrammed stock ECU, the power wasn't ready for prime time IMHO.

(5) The Brembo brakes - dayuuuum I still really like them. I just bought a few systems to outfit my YZ-Fs with, they are that good for my riding style (and many of you may recall my brake quest with Motostuff V2 billet calipers, Ride Engineering V2 billet calipers, Motostuff 270 and 280 rotors, different master cylinders, on and on and on ... and $$$ on).

(6) Hydraulic clutch - meh. No feel, just on/off. It works, but not a super fan. A cable clutch is the only real way to get the feel I prefer it seems.

(7) The Pankl gearbox really is amazing. Such crisp, positive shifts. The bike does indeed seem to like Motorex 10W50 best. Amsoil 10W50 doesn't shift as smooth. I'm a Maxima guy, so I hope the oil tanker of Maxima 10W50 I just bought is as good as Motorex. The TV show "Hoarders" scares me. Deeply. Enough said.

(8) The stock AER forks combined with FasstCo Flexxbars are a really good combo offroad. I really like the ability to adjust the air spring and I very much use Flexxbars as a spring to preload to lift the front end readily. Great combo, loving it, but do have Enzo KYB cartridge converted spring forks (and shock) that I will try, a set of AEO revalved AER forks that look promising, and Dialed Mfg KYB cartridge lug adapters I'll use to convert the current stock AER forks to try. But as I've said before - these stock AER forks are pretty darn good if you learn their features IMO, and especially so for off-road it seems.

(9) 3 hours of riding almost continuously did "buzz me up" with the extra KTM vibration, but it's not much worse than my experience with Hondas and Yamahas. I'm way less concerned about this than I was initially, but I still have FasstCo Impact pegs I'll be trying that have elastomeric shock/vibe isolation.

(10) The KTM seat is waaaay better than a Yamaha YZ-F seat for me, but not as plush as a Honda CRF's. No complaints at all, just really highlighting the Yamaha's thinness/harshness.

(11) I really do miss the Rekluse RadiusCX 4.0 clutch that I typically install on all bikes I own right away (not on the KTMs though ... yet). I ride the Rekluse just like I ride without it, but love the anti-stall feature and the smooth engagement. It just makes flowing easier. I am enjoying the OEM KTM clutch pack quality, but now realize how well the Rekluse units work.

(12) I've been riding this chassis without a steering stabilizer happily, but plan to add one one anyway. I like to run them on the lower(est) setting to take some of the square edge hack away in terms of jarring the bars sideways suddenly. But truly no complaints with no stabilizer on this chassis, it's quite stable AND hs excellent turning.

(13) I've heard it said you can't ride this 350F like a 450F and lug / short-shift it. This is not the case for me. I ride it like a 450F for the most part and it does very well laying down effective, suuuuuper fun torque.

(14) With the additional chain slack KTM recommends, I am getting quite a bit of frame wear just above the swingarm with the way the chain moves around more. Anyone have a good fix for this?

(15) I've always needed to go to Hammerhead Designs shift levers with +10-mm or +20-mm shift tips for my size 11 boots (Alpinestars Tech 10s and Gaerne SG-12s) on Honda and Yamahas. Not so on the KTM, the OEM shift lever is perfect.

(16) You do need to check fasteners for looseness regularly on these KTMS. I found 1 engine bracket bolt loose today + 1 handlebar clamp bolt.

(17) I really like how this engine doesn't seem to dirty/breakdown oil quickly like Yamahas (which only hold like ~ 740cc for the engine & tranny). Being able to safely run 5-10-hour oil change intervals = AWESOME! I can only get ~ 3-4 hours on Yamahas. Believe it or not - this is a big deal to me. It's the difference between getting a random ride in like today or not (largely attributable to the excellent clutch IMO). My older 2008 Honda CRF450R is good this way, too. 

(18) My ride yesterday highlighted my need to do some shock work. A long series of stutter bumps is giving it fits, so need to explore here. My Yamaha shocks do this at this riding area, too, so I'm not shocked. 

Summary:
Still loving the 2022 KTM 350 SX-F, but I need to get to the bottom of #1 - this is a safety issue.