Kawasaki unveils hydrogen internal combustion motorcycle

The whole of Japan is making the move to hydrogen.  It makes sense since they have no oil, or other energy sources.  Hydrogen has 3x the energy potential of gasoline, so it will be cool to see what they come up with.

It’s cool but not really a viable alternative to gasoline ICE?

Hydrogen makes way more logical sense than electric for vehicles and dirtbikes. The technology is really close to being as good as oil. 

Can someone smarter than me tell me how this isn’t a giant explosion waiting to happen? Cool concept always just wondered about this part?

A gas motor literally carries around highly flammable explosive fuel. 

Hydrogen is stable and the tanks used are basically bullet proof. The tanks are designed to handle almost any impact. 

I always thought hydrogen was more easily ignited. But it works for rockets I guess? 

FYI- Hydrogen is generated by natural gas…so there’s that..just shifts the emissions out of sight, but it’s still there. Magic! 

In the USA, we won’t see hydrogen used very much in our lifetime- our pipelines are not built to carry hydrogen - hydrogen embrittlement is the problem. These days you can’t put a new pipeline anywhere- think you’ll see pipelines built to carry hydrogen ?! 

I don’t really have a huge issue with electric motorcycles, but hydrogen is a million times better imo. 

"work that is transcending corporate boundaries"

It's a cool research project, hydrogen will find its place, most likely in aeronautics. It will make sense when green hydrogen will become more affordable, maybe 10 years from now?

Not for bikes though, have you seen the size of those tanks on the Kawi? Can't downsize this.

Hydrogen again. To get equivalent energy storage compared to gasoline you need 3 to 4 times the storage volume with specially shaped tanks filled to 10,000 psi. H2 is the smallest dipole molecule in nature so sealing becomes an issue both in filling and in passing the fuel from storage to combustion. Filling tanks is an issue because nozzles freeze and get stuck to the fill tube, this may not be much of an issue with small motorcycle tanks but it is an issue with hydrogen cars. It's a fun project but I wouldn't count on it for a motorcycle, especially an off-road motorcycle 

The only issue with hydrogen is that when released under pressure it is explosive and highly volatile. 

Also, you can't see the flame.  It's extremely dangerous.

We went from large and heavy toxic batteries to hydrogen powered equipment at our Wal-Mart distribution centers. Way cleaner, less time wasted changing out batteries, and refueling is super quick. I like the concept, but I'm old and still enjoy my ICE KTM. 😀

Holy shit......that thing is massive. 

Maybe an alternative for off road and longer range bikes and aircraft, cars and trucks. And MX bikes or other vehicles that do not need longer range could be electric. 

One issue I see is the refueling issue. With the high pressure , would it be possible to even refuel a bike at a track or at Your house?  People complain about infrastructure with electric . Would a track have to install a hydrogen station?   Well there is nothing special needed for charging a Varg/ electric MX bike  while at home. And a $1000 generator can handle refueling one just about anyplace. 

I  don't drive as much lately so perhaps they are more common now. But as of a few years ago, I could only recall ever seeing 3 hydrogen stations around me.  All about an hour from me. 

Electric may not have the range needed for some uses. But I really think that it could be a perfect power source for MX bikes. And one that will allow for the cost of bikes to come down overtime. Electric powertrains are so much more simple to manufacture with many fewer parts. I am glad that there are alternative to electric being worked on that can also be more friendly to the environment.

 It is the sound emitted from Dirtbikes that is the bigger problem for tracks and riding areas in my opinion. And electric solves that problem . Race bikes /closed course ridden bikes do not have any emission control stuff on them already. Even in California. Sound is closing tracks in every state.     Range on a MX track will not be a problem in the not so distant future for electric MX bikes. But for long range street, boats, aircraft and cars and trucks ,hydrogen might be a better fuel. I would be more likely to buy a hydrogen powered truck than a full electric at this point. There are some semi trucks that are hydrogen electric that have crazy range and power. I would love a hydrogen electric Silverado HD. Electric motors instead of a transmission. Hydrogen generating the power with smaller batteries or capacitors. 

I was looking around to see how portable Hydrogen is. And the short answer is it is  not very portable. Because of how small the H2 molecules are its very difficult to seal tanks and they end up being very thick.  Toyota has a cartridge style system that would allow for refueling at tracks  by buying  multiple hydrogen cartridges.  I assume that someday they could have stations that would swap out a full cartridge for empties like you can do with Propane. 

 There are trailers that could be brought out to MX tracks to refuel hydrogen bikes. I have no idea the cost or how common they are. 

   It could be done , and maybe the manufacturing plants might not have to make big tooling or other changes to make hydrogen powered vehicles. But as far as refueling goes , electric is much easier right now.  And You can recharge much easier than refueling with hydrogen at a MX track  right now. 

As far as manufacturing goes. Electrics require fewer parts than a gas MX bike.  But still will use much of the same stuff .  I'm not sure if any of the current manufacturers make their own electric starters or batteries . So they could outsource those still. The motor and battery.  The rest of a dirtbike would not be much different as far as making the chassis and bodywork. Cables and hoses are most likely outsourced. As well as wiring. Casting a case for a battery could be done in a similar way to casting engine cases I assume. I do not know a lot about  that process. From the little I have learned about storing Hydrogen, I would think that the fuel lines and some aspects of that system would need to be changed. Different materials etc. for Hydrogen.  

To me , hydrogen for motocross and supercross makes very little sense. But perhaps like electric, the power that is made might be worth the added difficulties in refueling. I am not familiar with the style of power that hydrogen produces. Is it a wider spread out power , and easier to use like the way electric power is?  If they go with hydrogen, I hope that they can at least make them sound better, bring back 2 strokes?  To me I'm surprised at how little concern for refueling has been expressed , or what about the high PSI? 10K PSI. I will 100% learn more about hydrogen power though. I find it interesting but not practical for many of the same reasons people are pushing back against electric. The refueling part is much harder to do out where dirtbikes are ridden.      

Other than the size that it is currently . This system of aluminum pucks might just be the way of making hydrogen MX bikes not as difficult to refuel. 

Aluminum and gallium "pucks" are just what they sound like. A hunk of metal. When exposed to water  a chemical reaction starts and splits the water molecules into   hydrogen and oxygen . The entire process happens on the vehicle in place of a gas tank.  It does away with the high pressure storage tanks and the "pucks" can be reused over and over indefinitely by re adding the gallium to the leftover aluminum oxide and creating a new "puck".

Here is a link that talks about some real world trials they are working on   https://hackaday.com/2020/05/26/aluminium-pucks-fuel-hydrogen-trucks/

Factories use the steam methane reforming process, which means sure hydrogen has 3x the energy density of gas, but you have to burn three times itself in natural gas to make it. May as well bypass all the inefficiencies throughout the conversion process and just make more natural gas vehicles. But, the one big benefit from a pollution standpoint is that you have more opportunity to reduce pollution if it comes from one source, like a factory, as opposed to everywhere, like from the tailpipe. 

I doubt hydrogen internal combustion engines (HICE) would be a solution for motorcycles. Heavy duty vehicles yes, dirtbikes definitely not. Main issue is its low volumetric energy density.

Hydrogen tanks are heavy but also really high volume. Only a handful of HICE car prototypes have been built to this day, they need about 2 kg of hydrogen to get 100 km range. To store that, you need a 60 liters tank weighting around 50 kg. 

It means (heavy) 2 gallons tank may get you 8 miles range. Hence the sexy saddlebags.

That thing is huge....

I have nothing against hydrogen. But for MX bikes it seems like it would be more of a pain in the ass to refuel than an electric would.  Can You share the reasons why You think its a lot better?? I am really interested.  

I like the style of electric power output so for me ,I feel like the longer refueling time and shorter range VS gas bikes is a worthwhile trade off when You factor in the lack of sound, power style adjustability.  

Refueling and storing , sourcing a place to purchase Hydrogen all seem like a lot more work than regular gas and even electric. I am unfamiliar with how hydrogen may change the power of an ICE engine though. Or what advantages it provides over Gas or electric power other than emissions at the tailpipe and being able to possible convert current gas/diesel engines. I know so little , I don't mean to sound like I am totally against it.  So perhaps all that may be worth it.   

That's why CNG ICE makes more sense than hydrogen. T Boone Pickens was promoting CNG for long haul trucking 20 years ago as a way to diversify transportation fuel, downside is you need more of it. A methane (CH4) molecule is roughly 8x as big as an H2 molecule so sealing is easier. That's also why if you hear people say we should add hydrogen to our home natural gas lines don't listen to them. 

The benefit of having pure hydrogen is to run it through a fuel cell to make electricity to drive motors at >85% efficiency vs 30-40% efficiency of ICE. 

I'll tell you what though, if I could somehow get commercial hydrogen rates, I'd buy a Mirai in a minute. Not many places can find a nicely optioned 2017 Toyota for $4k-$5k.

That bike looks like it weighs 600+ lbs....what a joke.

The thing about hydrogen is that you don't have to change the ICE motors ACCEPT, that hydrogen burns at ambient pressure.  About 10 years ago I was deeply interested in the subject and there was a guy in Phoenix who was the expert.  He could get any ICE motor to run just fine, but only when he piped it directly into the combustion chamber. 

Storage is a problem, but I am sure someone will solve that. And I did buy a couple of HHO systems to test on my truck.  THe basics of it was an electrolosis unit to split the water and pipe the H into the intake.  It worked pretty well actually and a mechanic buddy of mine tested the units on a couple of different vehicles.  There were gains in hp/efficiency/emissions on all of them, depending upon the vehicle the results varied.  The less modern the engine, the better it worked.  Of course that was a mix of H and gasoline, but the Japanese wouldn't have made full commitment to it if it wouldn't work.

Turns out the bike has 2 tanks of 25 liters each so yep, with 13 gallons tank, this monstrosity may reach 100 km/60 mi range.

I am the VP of Operations and equity holder of a pipe manufacturer, and we can do exactly that. Our pipe is a fiberglass composite with an inner liner that can contain the hydrogen molecule. There is a whole lot of government funded research going on around hydrogen infrastructure, and we are working to secure grants to fund R&D and pilot projects. As you can imagine, it’s a long process. 

Our current clientele base is the large oil & gas producers, our product is being used in place of HDPE (plastic) and steel pipe. 

As someone who makes a living and my entire future is wrapped up in the oil & gas industry, I welcome another energy option. Oil and gas will always be needed for energy and petroleum based goods, I feel no threat. 

I just left a project we are kicking off in North Dakota, 15 mile pipeline running through farmland and a waterfowl production area. If one of our lines develops a leak in 20-30+ years, how many animals and humans would be impacted by a gas, produced water or oil spill? If we can limit that risk exposure, doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me for the long term health of humans, animals and this planet. 

Hydrogen powered vehicles are a hell of a lot more realistic than electric. The electric car movement is absolutely insane. 



 

Also, 700 bar is over 10,000 psi. I don't want that kind of pressure anywhere near my cock and balls.🧨

Setting boundaries is important.