Gypsy Tales/Glen Helen/ Bud Feldkamp Interview

cool_hand
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Bear Creek, NC US
7/22/2024 7:24pm

It's tough to listen to Jayce, he needs to learn how to interview people.

Outside of that, seems Bud was burned by Team Coombs, repeatedly, and decided he did not want to deal with that kind of people any longer. I get it. Moving forward, can they bury the hatchet and get all things in writing going forward? MXDN at Glen Helen 2025.......we can only hope. 

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8
Sully
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7/22/2024 7:28pm
j368 wrote:
When a lawyer says to you this is gonna take a lot of time, and to leave a check for a couple hundred thousand to get...

When a lawyer says to you this is gonna take a lot of time, and to leave a check for a couple hundred thousand to get started. Then they say to you we’ll let you know when we’ve went thru the money, and we’ll need some more. You’d think twice whether it’s worth it.  

Sully wrote:

I remember reading somewhere that Bud's net worth is north of $100m, he's not walking into Jacoby & Meyers for representation, he has lawyers on retainer.

j368 wrote:
Jacoby & Meyers, haven’t heard that name in a long time. Didn’t they used to advertise on tv like 20-30 years ago. Low budget hacks is...

Jacoby & Meyers, haven’t heard that name in a long time. Didn’t they used to advertise on tv like 20-30 years ago. Low budget hacks is what people used to call them. You were really scraping the bottom of the barrel if you called them. 

You must be from San Diego/SoCal if you got that one. I was either going to go with Jacoby & Meyers (definitely low budget hacks), or the king of the ambulance chasers himself, Sam Spitale.

2
brocster
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7/22/2024 7:50pm
I wonder why Bud and the NPG just did not make a more attractive bid when they were bidding. It sounds like they( DC/MX sports and...

I wonder why Bud and the NPG just did not make a more attractive bid when they were bidding. It sounds like they( DC/MX sports and NGP )  were talking about the bids they were putting in. He/NPG had to know what MX sports was offering. So why not make a better offer?  

 I am assuming that they had everybody who wanted to bid. Write up a proposal and make an offer money wise as well as some sort of plan for how they would run the races , etc. From what I remember seeing  online about the deal back then, there was a deadline that everybody had .  

After the bid process and DMG took over, they could do whatever they wanted to do as far as picking who they worked with.  Bud and the NPG could have also tried to work other angles that they accuse Davey of. From everything that is public , DMG reached out to MX Sports.  From the outside looking in I would rather pick MX sports to work with over Bud. But then on the other hand, sometimes the people who seem like Dicks are the most honest. I don't think that applies in this case though, it seems like a  grudge to me. 

 

I do hope that Bud  and MX Sports are able to put the BS aside and make something work. But only if it is very close to the same deal other tracks get. Glen Helen is an amazing track to watch the best guys in the world ride on. But Its not good enough that it should get a special deal.  Perhaps there are all areas that each track gets a better deal than the others in. And it evens out. I don't know. But From the sounds of it, they all have a deal that is very similar to each other.   

mxnick wrote:
This is a pretty accurate viewpoint of how it went down.  Every member of the NPG knew of, and approved (or did not speak up during...

This is a pretty accurate viewpoint of how it went down.  

Every member of the NPG knew of, and approved (or did not speak up during the bidding process) that both MX Sports and the NPG were putting in bids. This is a fact. There was no back room last minute proposals.  And it is has been said multiple times, DMG won the bid.  Both MX Sports and the NPG were losers in the process.  

As for some further background, it was largely believed within "the industry" that the outdoor nationals under NPG management were losing relevance in 2007/2008. Supercross had really gained some serious traction and the outdoor nationals appeared (in comparison) as outdated and failing to embrace many aspects of modern sporting events. Many stakeholders had concerns about the aging facilities and that certain track owners were resistant to change or invest in facilities (Note that this was also before many of the generational changes at the tracks happened, such Gene Richy leaving to Amy and Tim, Ward Robinson to Greg and Jill, Washougal from Ralph to Ryan and his family).  

With that in mind, the AMA leadership at the time who was in charge of the RFP, a guy named Dennis Rhee (along with Rob Dingman) was verbally favoring the Youthstream bid.  Youthstream were very polished Euro organization and were offering good money, and wanted a USA toe hold badly since MXGP had zero presence here, and since the USA is the largest dirt bike market in the world. Plus they had just promoted and delivered the largest outdoor race in America, the 2007 Des Nations. 

So when the final bids came into the AMA, the NPG's came in already in a weaker position. And this was given that the series was already on thinnish ice with the OEM's, and under the existing NPG custodianship. It is also worth repeating that the NPG also had no formal business structure - it was set up to aid and support the tracks with best practice ideas, but was not set up to make commercial, for profit decisions, such as sell series sponsorship, negotiate TV packages, nor do things like make a series wide website, or create and define a unified series ticketing platform (all tracks sold their own tickets back them, some of them were cash only even in 2007!). There was no dedicated NPG office, there was not a single full time staff member, it was nothing but ~11 track owners, who sat in a room 1-2 times a year to talk about how they can improve and protect their events. So if they won, they would have to quickly put in place a ton of organizational protocols and hire a bunch of people. And this would have been a business that would have owned by 11 families - decision making would have been complicated, to say the least. The winning bidder had 8 months to get everything off the ground before the start of the 2009 series...and in an economy that was quickly turning the wrong direction.  

It is also worth pointing out that Bud Feldcamp did not attend all of the NPG meetings - Lori usually did. Bud would usually only attend if they were held in So Cal and closer to his home. While I dont know his exact attendance over the years, it was maybe 50% or so. And it is not as though he even played a strong leadership role in that organization, he showed up when he wanted to, did his own thing and sometimes left the meetings early. Thus, Bud's grudge on this whole matter seems strange - its not as though he was pushing to be a leader at the NPG, or to run the new organization in the chance they won it.  And, in all of this discussion and podcasts, Bud has said very little or nothing about the overall health of the series, he just seems to care about what happens at his track. 

Not saying MX Sports is perfect - but had Youthstream (or the NPG) landed the series, there is no question that outdoor MX in the USA would look very, very different today. I doubt we would still have a RedBud or Washougal or Millville, and who knows if the OEM's would have stuck around with the big budgets. AMA Road Racing is a great example of what mistaken / misguided leadership can do to a racing series. That series took a massive blow when Edmonson ran off the OEM's in 2009-2012, and then he got run off himself. And now Wayne Rainey and his crew are doing a great job, but still struggling to make the series 1/2 of what it was in say, 2003 (who remembers 65,000 fans at Mid Ohio - I do!). So regardless of how Bud feels, the overall series is in a much, much better and healthier place. 

And, (in my personal opinion) Glen Helen - that place is pretty run down and tired. Sure they have a great hill at the place, thats cool, but the rest of the place is just kinda beat. And way more so then virtually every other national track.  There is an awful lot of peeling paint, broken fence lines, broken side walks, run down bathrooms, etc. And what do they do to invest in improving rider safety? 

As an example, here is the photo of the finish line pipe in the first 450 moto that Bud wanted the riders to ride through at that 2018 national. This was the day of the big race. It is a piece of broken concrete that looks like it was last painted in 2001, and it is placed at one of the most prominent / prestigious point on the track (finish line). Or how about the VIP viewing area - there is a banged up broken section of concrete jersey barrier that is buried just in front of the area, and the cobblestone in the VIP area is loose and unkempt with broken pieces floating around. 

Would the RedBud or Unadilla owners, or any of other promoters, allow this look to happen at the most prominent spot on the track? I doubt it. If Bud really wanted to make a difference, he could easily lead by example and have the nicest facility out there - and not just a nice uphill and downhill. By all means he has the financial resources to spruce the place up a bit and become a leader in safety innovation, etc. But the reality is that the Glen Helen of 2024 looks alot like the Glen Helen of 1999...not much has changed out there.

RedBud, Unadilla are what, 50+ years of hosting national races?  Millville and Washougal are since when, 1983? All these races still work and as best as I can tell, none of those promoters are sour that the NPG didn't get rights to the series. Bud needs to get over it, do some painting and carpentry work, and make the 2024 vet world championships the best it can be. 

GH1 0GH2.jpg?VersionId=s0hLvz2oLNVHZ9XL6fhe2Nyf8

 

Nice post with lot of good info. Thanks!

but to be fair.  GH could hold a National  in a few weeks, as is and with all the National “make up” it would look every bit as good or better than Pala that doesn’t even have a proper restroom or much else besides a few sets of Tee Ball bleachers that hold about 30 people each.  I am thankful for it but it’s not a place I encourage my friends from La. to come out and watch a National unlike what I tell them about GH and how the National was there. 

1
1
burn1986
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bossier city, LA US
7/22/2024 7:57pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2024 7:59pm
cool_hand wrote:
It's tough to listen to Jayce, he needs to learn how to interview people.Outside of that, seems Bud was burned by Team Coombs, repeatedly, and decided...

It's tough to listen to Jayce, he needs to learn how to interview people.

Outside of that, seems Bud was burned by Team Coombs, repeatedly, and decided he did not want to deal with that kind of people any longer. I get it. Moving forward, can they bury the hatchet and get all things in writing going forward? MXDN at Glen Helen 2025.......we can only hope. 

It was a power play and Coombs Sr seized it. Coombs Jr is just following in his footsteps. 

I don't blame Bud one bit. 

Even so, water under the bridge at this point.

3
9

The Shop

lappedrider
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7/22/2024 8:23pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2024 8:23pm
cool_hand wrote:
It's tough to listen to Jayce, he needs to learn how to interview people.Outside of that, seems Bud was burned by Team Coombs, repeatedly, and decided...

It's tough to listen to Jayce, he needs to learn how to interview people.

Outside of that, seems Bud was burned by Team Coombs, repeatedly, and decided he did not want to deal with that kind of people any longer. I get it. Moving forward, can they bury the hatchet and get all things in writing going forward? MXDN at Glen Helen 2025.......we can only hope. 

burn1986 wrote:
It was a power play and Coombs Sr seized it. Coombs Jr is just following in his footsteps. I don't blame Bud one bit. Even so, water under...

It was a power play and Coombs Sr seized it. Coombs Jr is just following in his footsteps. 

I don't blame Bud one bit. 

Even so, water under the bridge at this point.

I clearly listened to a different podcast than the two of you.  I don’t get you guys feel this way.  

5
2
ML512
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Fantasy
7/22/2024 8:39pm
cool_hand wrote:
It's tough to listen to Jayce, he needs to learn how to interview people.Outside of that, seems Bud was burned by Team Coombs, repeatedly, and decided...

It's tough to listen to Jayce, he needs to learn how to interview people.

Outside of that, seems Bud was burned by Team Coombs, repeatedly, and decided he did not want to deal with that kind of people any longer. I get it. Moving forward, can they bury the hatchet and get all things in writing going forward? MXDN at Glen Helen 2025.......we can only hope. 

burn1986 wrote:
It was a power play and Coombs Sr seized it. Coombs Jr is just following in his footsteps. I don't blame Bud one bit. Even so, water under...

It was a power play and Coombs Sr seized it. Coombs Jr is just following in his footsteps. 

I don't blame Bud one bit. 

Even so, water under the bridge at this point.

Coombs Sr. Passed away in 1998…

10
TeamGreen
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7/22/2024 8:50pm
Myke wrote:
They all knew MX Sports was putting in a bid also? I missed that, I thought that was Bud's biggest issue from that whole deal. I...

They all knew MX Sports was putting in a bid also? I missed that, I thought that was Bud's biggest issue from that whole deal. I also didn't pick up that publicly MX Sports existed before that time?

MX Sports has been running the GNCC's and Lorretta Lynn's for years before they started running the Nationals.  According to their company Bio they have been...

MX Sports has been running the GNCC's and Lorretta Lynn's for years before they started running the Nationals.  According to their company Bio they have been in the biz for over 35 years  as of 2020.  And it must have been on Davey's interview that they talked about the NPG knowing ahead of time if it was not talked about on Bud's. 

 LINK TO  MX sports COMPANY  bio info used  https://mxsports.com/company-bio

 Davy talked about the bidding and said how they told everybody in the NPG that they( MX Sports)  were also going to bid as a backup. Hoping that if the NPG's bid was not accepted that they had a second chance with MX sports placing a bid. I do not remember Bud or Lori saying that was not true in their interview.  

I remember the first time I drove out to the Highpoint National. Passing by the Racer-X Office and seeing a sign for a company that was not Racer-X

Racer Productions .  That was when I searched and found out that the guys behind Racer-X mag were into racing way deeper than I knew. I'm not sure of the exact company structure. 

 image 227     

Lori confirmed in the Glen Helen Podcast that DC called her and explained MXS making a back up bid.  

 

Weird post of the day…

Thought of you while watching “Lost in Translation”. 🤣

CE5C301A-0BE6-4F18-8DA8-F94B329BB924

Hope you are kicking ass and smiling.

Manny 

 

2
lappedrider
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7/22/2024 9:17pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Weird post of the day…Thought of you while watching “Lost in Translation”. 🤣Hope you are kicking ass and smiling.Manny  

Weird post of the day…

Thought of you while watching “Lost in Translation”. 🤣

CE5C301A-0BE6-4F18-8DA8-F94B329BB924

Hope you are kicking ass and smiling.

Manny 

 

Not sure if I love that movie, or if I just love everything with Bill.  

Unfortunately, suffering a slow recovery from surgery, but will be kicking ass soon.  Always smiling.  

1
burn1986
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7/22/2024 10:16pm
ML512 wrote:

Coombs Sr. Passed away in 1998…

Well, and the fact is, none of us (me) were (was) there, so its probably not fair on my part to make a judgement call.. Coombs Sr. might've been a very nice man, and I don't know what actually transpired back around 1980. So, I can only say that what has come of the move by the Coombs family has benefitted the sport. 

2
7/23/2024 8:03am
Myke wrote:
They all knew MX Sports was putting in a bid also? I missed that, I thought that was Bud's biggest issue from that whole deal. I...

They all knew MX Sports was putting in a bid also? I missed that, I thought that was Bud's biggest issue from that whole deal. I also didn't pick up that publicly MX Sports existed before that time?

MX Sports has been running the GNCC's and Lorretta Lynn's for years before they started running the Nationals.  According to their company Bio they have been...

MX Sports has been running the GNCC's and Lorretta Lynn's for years before they started running the Nationals.  According to their company Bio they have been in the biz for over 35 years  as of 2020.  And it must have been on Davey's interview that they talked about the NPG knowing ahead of time if it was not talked about on Bud's. 

 LINK TO  MX sports COMPANY  bio info used  https://mxsports.com/company-bio

 Davy talked about the bidding and said how they told everybody in the NPG that they( MX Sports)  were also going to bid as a backup. Hoping that if the NPG's bid was not accepted that they had a second chance with MX sports placing a bid. I do not remember Bud or Lori saying that was not true in their interview.  

I remember the first time I drove out to the Highpoint National. Passing by the Racer-X Office and seeing a sign for a company that was not Racer-X

Racer Productions .  That was when I searched and found out that the guys behind Racer-X mag were into racing way deeper than I knew. I'm not sure of the exact company structure. 

 image 227     

Lori confirmed in the Glen Helen Podcast that DC called her and explained MXS making a back up bid.  

 

I thought I heard it in both of the interviews. Thanks for posting and making things clear.

7/23/2024 8:45am
I wonder why Bud and the NPG just did not make a more attractive bid when they were bidding. It sounds like they( DC/MX sports and...

I wonder why Bud and the NPG just did not make a more attractive bid when they were bidding. It sounds like they( DC/MX sports and NGP )  were talking about the bids they were putting in. He/NPG had to know what MX sports was offering. So why not make a better offer?  

 I am assuming that they had everybody who wanted to bid. Write up a proposal and make an offer money wise as well as some sort of plan for how they would run the races , etc. From what I remember seeing  online about the deal back then, there was a deadline that everybody had .  

After the bid process and DMG took over, they could do whatever they wanted to do as far as picking who they worked with.  Bud and the NPG could have also tried to work other angles that they accuse Davey of. From everything that is public , DMG reached out to MX Sports.  From the outside looking in I would rather pick MX sports to work with over Bud. But then on the other hand, sometimes the people who seem like Dicks are the most honest. I don't think that applies in this case though, it seems like a  grudge to me. 

 

I do hope that Bud  and MX Sports are able to put the BS aside and make something work. But only if it is very close to the same deal other tracks get. Glen Helen is an amazing track to watch the best guys in the world ride on. But Its not good enough that it should get a special deal.  Perhaps there are all areas that each track gets a better deal than the others in. And it evens out. I don't know. But From the sounds of it, they all have a deal that is very similar to each other.   

mxnick wrote:
This is a pretty accurate viewpoint of how it went down.  Every member of the NPG knew of, and approved (or did not speak up during...

This is a pretty accurate viewpoint of how it went down.  

Every member of the NPG knew of, and approved (or did not speak up during the bidding process) that both MX Sports and the NPG were putting in bids. This is a fact. There was no back room last minute proposals.  And it is has been said multiple times, DMG won the bid.  Both MX Sports and the NPG were losers in the process.  

As for some further background, it was largely believed within "the industry" that the outdoor nationals under NPG management were losing relevance in 2007/2008. Supercross had really gained some serious traction and the outdoor nationals appeared (in comparison) as outdated and failing to embrace many aspects of modern sporting events. Many stakeholders had concerns about the aging facilities and that certain track owners were resistant to change or invest in facilities (Note that this was also before many of the generational changes at the tracks happened, such Gene Richy leaving to Amy and Tim, Ward Robinson to Greg and Jill, Washougal from Ralph to Ryan and his family).  

With that in mind, the AMA leadership at the time who was in charge of the RFP, a guy named Dennis Rhee (along with Rob Dingman) was verbally favoring the Youthstream bid.  Youthstream were very polished Euro organization and were offering good money, and wanted a USA toe hold badly since MXGP had zero presence here, and since the USA is the largest dirt bike market in the world. Plus they had just promoted and delivered the largest outdoor race in America, the 2007 Des Nations. 

So when the final bids came into the AMA, the NPG's came in already in a weaker position. And this was given that the series was already on thinnish ice with the OEM's, and under the existing NPG custodianship. It is also worth repeating that the NPG also had no formal business structure - it was set up to aid and support the tracks with best practice ideas, but was not set up to make commercial, for profit decisions, such as sell series sponsorship, negotiate TV packages, nor do things like make a series wide website, or create and define a unified series ticketing platform (all tracks sold their own tickets back them, some of them were cash only even in 2007!). There was no dedicated NPG office, there was not a single full time staff member, it was nothing but ~11 track owners, who sat in a room 1-2 times a year to talk about how they can improve and protect their events. So if they won, they would have to quickly put in place a ton of organizational protocols and hire a bunch of people. And this would have been a business that would have owned by 11 families - decision making would have been complicated, to say the least. The winning bidder had 8 months to get everything off the ground before the start of the 2009 series...and in an economy that was quickly turning the wrong direction.  

It is also worth pointing out that Bud Feldcamp did not attend all of the NPG meetings - Lori usually did. Bud would usually only attend if they were held in So Cal and closer to his home. While I dont know his exact attendance over the years, it was maybe 50% or so. And it is not as though he even played a strong leadership role in that organization, he showed up when he wanted to, did his own thing and sometimes left the meetings early. Thus, Bud's grudge on this whole matter seems strange - its not as though he was pushing to be a leader at the NPG, or to run the new organization in the chance they won it.  And, in all of this discussion and podcasts, Bud has said very little or nothing about the overall health of the series, he just seems to care about what happens at his track. 

Not saying MX Sports is perfect - but had Youthstream (or the NPG) landed the series, there is no question that outdoor MX in the USA would look very, very different today. I doubt we would still have a RedBud or Washougal or Millville, and who knows if the OEM's would have stuck around with the big budgets. AMA Road Racing is a great example of what mistaken / misguided leadership can do to a racing series. That series took a massive blow when Edmonson ran off the OEM's in 2009-2012, and then he got run off himself. And now Wayne Rainey and his crew are doing a great job, but still struggling to make the series 1/2 of what it was in say, 2003 (who remembers 65,000 fans at Mid Ohio - I do!). So regardless of how Bud feels, the overall series is in a much, much better and healthier place. 

And, (in my personal opinion) Glen Helen - that place is pretty run down and tired. Sure they have a great hill at the place, thats cool, but the rest of the place is just kinda beat. And way more so then virtually every other national track.  There is an awful lot of peeling paint, broken fence lines, broken side walks, run down bathrooms, etc. And what do they do to invest in improving rider safety? 

As an example, here is the photo of the finish line pipe in the first 450 moto that Bud wanted the riders to ride through at that 2018 national. This was the day of the big race. It is a piece of broken concrete that looks like it was last painted in 2001, and it is placed at one of the most prominent / prestigious point on the track (finish line). Or how about the VIP viewing area - there is a banged up broken section of concrete jersey barrier that is buried just in front of the area, and the cobblestone in the VIP area is loose and unkempt with broken pieces floating around. 

Would the RedBud or Unadilla owners, or any of other promoters, allow this look to happen at the most prominent spot on the track? I doubt it. If Bud really wanted to make a difference, he could easily lead by example and have the nicest facility out there - and not just a nice uphill and downhill. By all means he has the financial resources to spruce the place up a bit and become a leader in safety innovation, etc. But the reality is that the Glen Helen of 2024 looks alot like the Glen Helen of 1999...not much has changed out there.

RedBud, Unadilla are what, 50+ years of hosting national races?  Millville and Washougal are since when, 1983? All these races still work and as best as I can tell, none of those promoters are sour that the NPG didn't get rights to the series. Bud needs to get over it, do some painting and carpentry work, and make the 2024 vet world championships the best it can be. 

GH1 0GH2.jpg?VersionId=s0hLvz2oLNVHZ9XL6fhe2Nyf8

 

brocster wrote:
Nice post with lot of good info. Thanks!but to be fair.  GH could hold a National  in a few weeks, as is and with all the...

Nice post with lot of good info. Thanks!

but to be fair.  GH could hold a National  in a few weeks, as is and with all the National “make up” it would look every bit as good or better than Pala that doesn’t even have a proper restroom or much else besides a few sets of Tee Ball bleachers that hold about 30 people each.  I am thankful for it but it’s not a place I encourage my friends from La. to come out and watch a National unlike what I tell them about GH and how the National was there. 

I believe his point in saying the bad stuff about GH's appearance was to point out what they looked like when they have held Nationals in the past. Those images were taken at the nationals  he references in the post. He was not saying that the track could not be made to look amazing. Just that even when they had Nationals in the past  they were not making it look amazing and putting on their best like the other Nationals do. 

 

 I've never been to GH, but I have been to 6 other Nationals multiple years in a row. Southwick for over 20 years .  Unadilla , Highpoint, Budd's Creek, Steel City, Broome between 04 and 12 or until they stopped having a National . And all of them were always better the next year than the previous year as far as facility's go starting around the time MX Sports got involved. I remember hearing that there were required upgrades at each track , a certain amount of change per year. and other things that the people that were running Southwick back then were not super excited about having to spend the money on. I was racing locally and at local races every weekend back then from March -November when I was not at a National . I'm friends with some of the people who have run NESC over the years so I've been able to hear some of the inside things that go on locally with races.  But it looks like it was all worth it now. I have never heard anything about the current people that run Southwick having any complaints , but I also have not been around local races like I used to be. 

 

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LungButter
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7/23/2024 10:46am

I hadn't really thought of it before but Glen Helen is kinda a dump aesthetically compared to most the other Nationals.  I'm not just talking about lack of greenery either it's SoCal can't expect much, but the facility itself isn't on "niceness" level of the other Nationals I've been to.

5
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soyMotero
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7/23/2024 12:28pm

Genuine Question, we know the relationship between Bud/Glen Helen and MxSports is bad, but how's the relationship with Infront/Luongo's? There were a few GP held at Glen Helen (2010, 2015 and 2016) and the 2017 MXoN was supposed to be held at Glen Helen, before it was cancelled and scheduled to Matterly Basin...  

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lappedrider
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7/23/2024 12:48pm
soyMotero wrote:
Genuine Question, we know the relationship between Bud/Glen Helen and MxSports is bad, but how's the relationship with Infront/Luongo's? There were a few GP held at...

Genuine Question, we know the relationship between Bud/Glen Helen and MxSports is bad, but how's the relationship with Infront/Luongo's? There were a few GP held at Glen Helen (2010, 2015 and 2016) and the 2017 MXoN was supposed to be held at Glen Helen, before it was cancelled and scheduled to Matterly Basin...  

I think Bud shot himself in the foot on this one now to.  When he scheduled the first GP in 2010 it was a screw you to MX Sports.  Even to the extent he was offering AMA riders extra money to skip the National. (Thinking about the NPG should be more upset about this than anything.)

But now, MX Sports and Youthstream have agreed to work together, so the MXoN or any MXGP will be organized through MXSports per my understanding.   Could be wrong.  

4
7/23/2024 1:44pm Edited Date/Time 7/23/2024 1:53pm

Anything that has its genesis with the AMA is going to be a shady deal.

 

from Cycle News:

INDUSTRY NEWS - Will Daytona Group Keep Properties?

By Henny Ray Abrams

More Groups 3/7/2008

The Daytona Motorports Group (DMG) won the bidding for all AMA Pro Racing properties except for Supercross, but will they keep them? Probably not.

A source with knowledge of the agreement said the plan was for the DMG to sublet most of the properties, while retaining hands-on control of just Superbike.

The group most likely to get the motocross nationals is the National Promoters Group (NPG), which was one of the most prominent bidders, along with Youthstream, the organizers of the Motocross World Championships.

The Daytona group may have wanted to keep motocross, but their plans conflicted with the AMA’s Supercross contract with Live Nation, which runs through 2019. The plan under consideration was to run motocross races at NASCAR Sprint Cup facilities, but a clause in the AMA’s contract with Live Nation prevents anyone from promoting motocross races in facilities with more than 32,000 fixed seats.

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DonM
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Anything that has its genesis with the AMA is going to be a shady deal. from Cycle News:INDUSTRY NEWS - Will Daytona Group Keep Properties?By Henny Ray...

Anything that has its genesis with the AMA is going to be a shady deal.

 

from Cycle News:

INDUSTRY NEWS - Will Daytona Group Keep Properties?

By Henny Ray Abrams

More Groups 3/7/2008

The Daytona Motorports Group (DMG) won the bidding for all AMA Pro Racing properties except for Supercross, but will they keep them? Probably not.

A source with knowledge of the agreement said the plan was for the DMG to sublet most of the properties, while retaining hands-on control of just Superbike.

The group most likely to get the motocross nationals is the National Promoters Group (NPG), which was one of the most prominent bidders, along with Youthstream, the organizers of the Motocross World Championships.

The Daytona group may have wanted to keep motocross, but their plans conflicted with the AMA’s Supercross contract with Live Nation, which runs through 2019. The plan under consideration was to run motocross races at NASCAR Sprint Cup facilities, but a clause in the AMA’s contract with Live Nation prevents anyone from promoting motocross races in facilities with more than 32,000 fixed seats.

Apparently the article was wrong...

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7/23/2024 2:06pm
Anything that has its genesis with the AMA is going to be a shady deal. from Cycle News:INDUSTRY NEWS - Will Daytona Group Keep Properties?By Henny Ray...

Anything that has its genesis with the AMA is going to be a shady deal.

 

from Cycle News:

INDUSTRY NEWS - Will Daytona Group Keep Properties?

By Henny Ray Abrams

More Groups 3/7/2008

The Daytona Motorports Group (DMG) won the bidding for all AMA Pro Racing properties except for Supercross, but will they keep them? Probably not.

A source with knowledge of the agreement said the plan was for the DMG to sublet most of the properties, while retaining hands-on control of just Superbike.

The group most likely to get the motocross nationals is the National Promoters Group (NPG), which was one of the most prominent bidders, along with Youthstream, the organizers of the Motocross World Championships.

The Daytona group may have wanted to keep motocross, but their plans conflicted with the AMA’s Supercross contract with Live Nation, which runs through 2019. The plan under consideration was to run motocross races at NASCAR Sprint Cup facilities, but a clause in the AMA’s contract with Live Nation prevents anyone from promoting motocross races in facilities with more than 32,000 fixed seats.

DonM wrote:

Apparently the article was wrong...

Yep.

But that was the sentiment at the time, so you can see Bud's astonishment when it changed direction and went to one of the partners of NPG entity?

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DonM
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Anything that has its genesis with the AMA is going to be a shady deal. from Cycle News:INDUSTRY NEWS - Will Daytona Group Keep Properties?By Henny Ray...

Anything that has its genesis with the AMA is going to be a shady deal.

 

from Cycle News:

INDUSTRY NEWS - Will Daytona Group Keep Properties?

By Henny Ray Abrams

More Groups 3/7/2008

The Daytona Motorports Group (DMG) won the bidding for all AMA Pro Racing properties except for Supercross, but will they keep them? Probably not.

A source with knowledge of the agreement said the plan was for the DMG to sublet most of the properties, while retaining hands-on control of just Superbike.

The group most likely to get the motocross nationals is the National Promoters Group (NPG), which was one of the most prominent bidders, along with Youthstream, the organizers of the Motocross World Championships.

The Daytona group may have wanted to keep motocross, but their plans conflicted with the AMA’s Supercross contract with Live Nation, which runs through 2019. The plan under consideration was to run motocross races at NASCAR Sprint Cup facilities, but a clause in the AMA’s contract with Live Nation prevents anyone from promoting motocross races in facilities with more than 32,000 fixed seats.

DonM wrote:

Apparently the article was wrong...

Yep.But that was the sentiment at the time, so you can see Bud's astonishment when it changed direction and went to one of the partners of...

Yep.

But that was the sentiment at the time, so you can see Bud's astonishment when it changed direction and went to one of the partners of NPG entity?

That was an opinion of whoever wrote the article at the time...it proved to be mostly wrong....at the end of the day time has shown that Bud is a lone wolf and difficult to deal with and who is someone that constantly wanted to change the deal/agreement...DC bent over backwards to try and accommodate to no avail....Time to move on as there won't ever be a national at GH as long as Bud's around...

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Gmyersdork
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7/23/2024 2:16pm
Yep.But that was the sentiment at the time, so you can see Bud's astonishment when it changed direction and went to one of the partners of...

Yep.

But that was the sentiment at the time, so you can see Bud's astonishment when it changed direction and went to one of the partners of NPG entity?

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Gmyersdork
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LungButter
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7/23/2024 2:23pm
Yep.But that was the sentiment at the time, so you can see Bud's astonishment when it changed direction and went to one of the partners of...

Yep.

But that was the sentiment at the time, so you can see Bud's astonishment when it changed direction and went to one of the partners of NPG entity?

And 16 years later he still isn't over it....meanwhile other tracks are making millions putting on Nationals.

Oh well.

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early
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7/23/2024 5:19pm

Interesting details from this 2012 MXA interview with Bud. The NPG bid to the AMA was only $2 million and now MX Sports has to come up with $1 million a year to pay DMG for the license before anything else happens. We dont know how much DMG invested in '08 but thats alot of money today for a name.

Bud said he ASSUMED NPG would negotiate with DMG about licensing the motocross series after the AMA Pro Racing bid was lost, well we can all see what happens when you assume like that. No NPG meetings on licensing MX rights after the failed bid?

https://motocrossactionmag.com/bud-feldkamp-breaks-his-silence-on-why-g…

Screenshot 20240723 200929 Chrome.jpg?VersionId=9gqq5CLjeq6OkixnLfR5tAW4xmEX
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bens 152
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I for one am happy and feel lucky with where the Nationals are right now with the current organisers and promoters. We have a fantastic series to watch. I was worried about the decline of the nationals a few years ago. It’s where the true fans who buy motorcycles are, and incredible to watch. 

Think what you want of DC, with rumours and stories, but he comes across genuine, and his passion for the sport is what we need at the helm. It’s a business, businesses need to make money.  It’s a hell of a lot healthier model then MXGP. 

We don’t need Bud and GH. As cool as it would be, it’s just one track. His vet nationals provide enough entertainment with its comedy of errors year after year.

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brocster
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7/23/2024 7:59pm
mxnick wrote:
This is a pretty accurate viewpoint of how it went down.  Every member of the NPG knew of, and approved (or did not speak up during...

This is a pretty accurate viewpoint of how it went down.  

Every member of the NPG knew of, and approved (or did not speak up during the bidding process) that both MX Sports and the NPG were putting in bids. This is a fact. There was no back room last minute proposals.  And it is has been said multiple times, DMG won the bid.  Both MX Sports and the NPG were losers in the process.  

As for some further background, it was largely believed within "the industry" that the outdoor nationals under NPG management were losing relevance in 2007/2008. Supercross had really gained some serious traction and the outdoor nationals appeared (in comparison) as outdated and failing to embrace many aspects of modern sporting events. Many stakeholders had concerns about the aging facilities and that certain track owners were resistant to change or invest in facilities (Note that this was also before many of the generational changes at the tracks happened, such Gene Richy leaving to Amy and Tim, Ward Robinson to Greg and Jill, Washougal from Ralph to Ryan and his family).  

With that in mind, the AMA leadership at the time who was in charge of the RFP, a guy named Dennis Rhee (along with Rob Dingman) was verbally favoring the Youthstream bid.  Youthstream were very polished Euro organization and were offering good money, and wanted a USA toe hold badly since MXGP had zero presence here, and since the USA is the largest dirt bike market in the world. Plus they had just promoted and delivered the largest outdoor race in America, the 2007 Des Nations. 

So when the final bids came into the AMA, the NPG's came in already in a weaker position. And this was given that the series was already on thinnish ice with the OEM's, and under the existing NPG custodianship. It is also worth repeating that the NPG also had no formal business structure - it was set up to aid and support the tracks with best practice ideas, but was not set up to make commercial, for profit decisions, such as sell series sponsorship, negotiate TV packages, nor do things like make a series wide website, or create and define a unified series ticketing platform (all tracks sold their own tickets back them, some of them were cash only even in 2007!). There was no dedicated NPG office, there was not a single full time staff member, it was nothing but ~11 track owners, who sat in a room 1-2 times a year to talk about how they can improve and protect their events. So if they won, they would have to quickly put in place a ton of organizational protocols and hire a bunch of people. And this would have been a business that would have owned by 11 families - decision making would have been complicated, to say the least. The winning bidder had 8 months to get everything off the ground before the start of the 2009 series...and in an economy that was quickly turning the wrong direction.  

It is also worth pointing out that Bud Feldcamp did not attend all of the NPG meetings - Lori usually did. Bud would usually only attend if they were held in So Cal and closer to his home. While I dont know his exact attendance over the years, it was maybe 50% or so. And it is not as though he even played a strong leadership role in that organization, he showed up when he wanted to, did his own thing and sometimes left the meetings early. Thus, Bud's grudge on this whole matter seems strange - its not as though he was pushing to be a leader at the NPG, or to run the new organization in the chance they won it.  And, in all of this discussion and podcasts, Bud has said very little or nothing about the overall health of the series, he just seems to care about what happens at his track. 

Not saying MX Sports is perfect - but had Youthstream (or the NPG) landed the series, there is no question that outdoor MX in the USA would look very, very different today. I doubt we would still have a RedBud or Washougal or Millville, and who knows if the OEM's would have stuck around with the big budgets. AMA Road Racing is a great example of what mistaken / misguided leadership can do to a racing series. That series took a massive blow when Edmonson ran off the OEM's in 2009-2012, and then he got run off himself. And now Wayne Rainey and his crew are doing a great job, but still struggling to make the series 1/2 of what it was in say, 2003 (who remembers 65,000 fans at Mid Ohio - I do!). So regardless of how Bud feels, the overall series is in a much, much better and healthier place. 

And, (in my personal opinion) Glen Helen - that place is pretty run down and tired. Sure they have a great hill at the place, thats cool, but the rest of the place is just kinda beat. And way more so then virtually every other national track.  There is an awful lot of peeling paint, broken fence lines, broken side walks, run down bathrooms, etc. And what do they do to invest in improving rider safety? 

As an example, here is the photo of the finish line pipe in the first 450 moto that Bud wanted the riders to ride through at that 2018 national. This was the day of the big race. It is a piece of broken concrete that looks like it was last painted in 2001, and it is placed at one of the most prominent / prestigious point on the track (finish line). Or how about the VIP viewing area - there is a banged up broken section of concrete jersey barrier that is buried just in front of the area, and the cobblestone in the VIP area is loose and unkempt with broken pieces floating around. 

Would the RedBud or Unadilla owners, or any of other promoters, allow this look to happen at the most prominent spot on the track? I doubt it. If Bud really wanted to make a difference, he could easily lead by example and have the nicest facility out there - and not just a nice uphill and downhill. By all means he has the financial resources to spruce the place up a bit and become a leader in safety innovation, etc. But the reality is that the Glen Helen of 2024 looks alot like the Glen Helen of 1999...not much has changed out there.

RedBud, Unadilla are what, 50+ years of hosting national races?  Millville and Washougal are since when, 1983? All these races still work and as best as I can tell, none of those promoters are sour that the NPG didn't get rights to the series. Bud needs to get over it, do some painting and carpentry work, and make the 2024 vet world championships the best it can be. 

GH1 0GH2.jpg?VersionId=s0hLvz2oLNVHZ9XL6fhe2Nyf8

 

brocster wrote:
Nice post with lot of good info. Thanks!but to be fair.  GH could hold a National  in a few weeks, as is and with all the...

Nice post with lot of good info. Thanks!

but to be fair.  GH could hold a National  in a few weeks, as is and with all the National “make up” it would look every bit as good or better than Pala that doesn’t even have a proper restroom or much else besides a few sets of Tee Ball bleachers that hold about 30 people each.  I am thankful for it but it’s not a place I encourage my friends from La. to come out and watch a National unlike what I tell them about GH and how the National was there. 

I believe his point in saying the bad stuff about GH's appearance was to point out what they looked like when they have held Nationals in...

I believe his point in saying the bad stuff about GH's appearance was to point out what they looked like when they have held Nationals in the past. Those images were taken at the nationals  he references in the post. He was not saying that the track could not be made to look amazing. Just that even when they had Nationals in the past  they were not making it look amazing and putting on their best like the other Nationals do. 

 

 I've never been to GH, but I have been to 6 other Nationals multiple years in a row. Southwick for over 20 years .  Unadilla , Highpoint, Budd's Creek, Steel City, Broome between 04 and 12 or until they stopped having a National . And all of them were always better the next year than the previous year as far as facility's go starting around the time MX Sports got involved. I remember hearing that there were required upgrades at each track , a certain amount of change per year. and other things that the people that were running Southwick back then were not super excited about having to spend the money on. I was racing locally and at local races every weekend back then from March -November when I was not at a National . I'm friends with some of the people who have run NESC over the years so I've been able to hear some of the inside things that go on locally with races.  But it looks like it was all worth it now. I have never heard anything about the current people that run Southwick having any complaints , but I also have not been around local races like I used to be. 

 

My point was more that Pala is no different.  They put lipstick on a pig there too. Sure there are some nice big blue culverts/tunnels but there are naked jersey barriers every where, thrown up chain link fences and 100% porta John’s.  He tried to paint the picture that GH was a shithole whereas Pala is nearly the same.  Been to Washougal, red bud, gatorback and freestone and for the most part they are all the same in raw form. It was a shitty stab is basically my point. They are motocross tracks fro crying out loud. 

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mxnick
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7/23/2024 10:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/23/2024 11:03pm
brocster wrote:
My point was more that Pala is no different.  They put lipstick on a pig there too. Sure there are some nice big blue culverts/tunnels but...

My point was more that Pala is no different.  They put lipstick on a pig there too. Sure there are some nice big blue culverts/tunnels but there are naked jersey barriers every where, thrown up chain link fences and 100% porta John’s.  He tried to paint the picture that GH was a shithole whereas Pala is nearly the same.  Been to Washougal, red bud, gatorback and freestone and for the most part they are all the same in raw form. It was a shitty stab is basically my point. They are motocross tracks fro crying out loud. 

I never once mentioned, nor intended to draw any comparisons, between the infrastructure at Glen Helen and Pala in my previous post.  My comments were simply about the appearance of the Glen Helen facility on national race day.  I have attended every one of them since 2006. 

But if you want to go there - lets do it!  

Lets first point out that (last year) Pala Raceway built a large 3 story permanent VIP tower building at the finish line. It is pretty nice inside, and houses several viewing rooms (with AC!). This is extra nice for the event production crew, which includes the timing and scoring crew, the live event announcers, course control, TV people, etc. Yes, they also had a temporary one right next to it, but that is because there was a ton of VIP tickets sold. 

Also at Pala is the Fox Pro shop, which is a nice new permanent building and looks good, and is always a fun place to visit. They also have small, well kept playground / mini moto track for the kiddo's, as well as a newer track office building over in the back that was recently built. They keep some fresh artwork on the sheds (which is designed by Fox Racing) as well. The entrance to Pala is clean and mostly free of garbage, the pavement and dirt roads are smooth and in good shape, and the various gates around the facility are not bent or damaged from people breaking chains and trying to open them.  

Oh, and the fences are painted (white) and in pretty good overall shape. Yea, they have Porta Johns, but they dont have a septic system onsite, let alone one that could handle the needs of 20,000 fans. I didnt see much, if any, Jersey Barrier at the national this year. But the Jersey Barrier that I did see (over by the freestyle track or whatever it is on the right side when you pull in), well, it wasnt all banged and broken up around the edges from being moved around with a dozer. Furthermore, they didnt have buried Jersey barrier along the finish line straight, and they made a big effort to fill in alot of the rain ruts around the facility and grade smooth alot of the areas surrounding the track.  

The only major improvement at Glen Helen in 20+ years that I am aware of - and please correct me if I am wrong - is the TLD Museum building that was built in ~2014, which is just an empty metal building that they dress up and host some VIP stuff. That was indeed a nice addition for the national. But the rest of the place is darn rough around the edges! 

Dont get me wrong - Pala is certainly no Redbud or Ritz Carlton, but the facility is cleaner and better taken care of then Glen Helen ever was. And they are making small improvements every year. 

But before someone freaks out, I am NOT talking about the track itself, just the presentation and maintenance of the facility!  

The lack of attention to infrastructure and investment at Glen Helen is obvious to anyone that visits that place. Yes it has some great elevation changes - but given the financial resources that Dr. Feldcamp is said to have, its surprising to me that the place looks the way it does. He obviously has the $$ (at least according to this thread) to make investments, if he wanted to. I assume his various medical practices are clean, tidy and well kept - but he could easily do much better for his riders and fans that attend his racetrack. 

 

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mx_563
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7/23/2024 11:47pm

It's difficult to follow Bud's side of the story. 

If shady stuff went down between the AMA, DMG and MXSports, then that's a real bummer and I would be upset just like Bud. However you can't change any of that now so the question is whether you take your ball and go home or accept it like all of the other promotors. 

If running a national at GH is more expensive than at other venues, and MXSports is unable to make exceptions for Bud's "side hustle" ideas (for lack of a better term), then maybe some other concessions could be made/negotiated to make it financially feasible for Bud while still being acceptable for MXSPorts? 

Dialogue is key methinks. But then again, I don't know the whole story and the above is little more than speculation/conjecture. 

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8tensolutions
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7/24/2024 5:17am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2024 5:17am
early wrote:
Interesting details from this 2012 MXA interview with Bud. The NPG bid to the AMA was only $2 million and now MX Sports has to come...

Interesting details from this 2012 MXA interview with Bud. The NPG bid to the AMA was only $2 million and now MX Sports has to come up with $1 million a year to pay DMG for the license before anything else happens. We dont know how much DMG invested in '08 but thats alot of money today for a name.

Bud said he ASSUMED NPG would negotiate with DMG about licensing the motocross series after the AMA Pro Racing bid was lost, well we can all see what happens when you assume like that. No NPG meetings on licensing MX rights after the failed bid?

https://motocrossactionmag.com/bud-feldkamp-breaks-his-silence-on-why-g…

Screenshot 20240723 200929 Chrome.jpg?VersionId=9gqq5CLjeq6OkixnLfR5tAW4xmEX

This article is clearly flawed and there is a very close relationship between Jody and Bud so that makes sense.  "Executive positions" of the NPG?  As mxnick described, that was the track owners who maybe met once or twice a year and Bud was only there a few times and left early often.  Not sure that constitutes an effective leadership strategy.....but regardless they AND MXS lost the bid.  This is not hard to understand.

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viking24
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7/24/2024 11:00am

I am curious about how AMA Pro ran the bidding process? All or none? Bids for one series or multiples?

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Ob917
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7/24/2024 11:17am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2024 11:19am
mx_563 wrote:
It's difficult to follow Bud's side of the story. If shady stuff went down between the AMA, DMG and MXSports, then that's a real bummer and I...

It's difficult to follow Bud's side of the story. 

If shady stuff went down between the AMA, DMG and MXSports, then that's a real bummer and I would be upset just like Bud. However you can't change any of that now so the question is whether you take your ball and go home or accept it like all of the other promotors. 

If running a national at GH is more expensive than at other venues, and MXSports is unable to make exceptions for Bud's "side hustle" ideas (for lack of a better term), then maybe some other concessions could be made/negotiated to make it financially feasible for Bud while still being acceptable for MXSPorts? 

Dialogue is key methinks. But then again, I don't know the whole story and the above is little more than speculation/conjecture. 

Pala is ten times nicer than GH. Just driving to Pala and smelling the orange grooves and being in the green mountains with the ocean breeze blowing up the valley is awesome. 

GH is surrounded by one of the dirtiest and worst areas in California. Plus GH is always 15 degrees hotter in the summer or 15 degrees colder in the winter. I just wish they could put the GH track at Pala. That’s what we need

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7/24/2024 12:52pm
LungButter wrote:

He got rich giving Abortions right?

Not sure why you got downvoted, but this is correct.

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