Deegan vs de Wolf

NVA57
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7/1/2024 10:26am
Press516 wrote:
Vialle won back to back MX2 world titles, but now you see posts that he only won because Geerts gave it to him….  That’s like saying...

Vialle won back to back MX2 world titles, but now you see posts that he only won because Geerts gave it to him….  That’s like saying Jett only won because Chase tucked the front too many times…. JFC people.  Then Vialle goes back and beats them at MXoN.  Give Tom the credit he’s earned as a 2 time WC.

Tom said last year that the AMA 250 class is no joke and he thinks stronger than MX2.

But, unless they race a series, we won’t know… I don’t like the results of a 1 off event used to claim who’s best…

 

People also make Tom out to be some sort of sand god with the whole "Southwick should be his" talk, while he's not.

Screenshot 2024-07-01 at 19.24.43Screenshot 2024-07-01 at 19.24.56Screenshot 2024-07-01 at 19.25.11Screenshot 2024-07-01 at 19.25.21

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soggy
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7/1/2024 10:31am

It’s Deegan and it’s not particularly close I don’t think. He is on another planet right now when it comes to his willingness to hang it out. I don’t see that from any other riders right now.  
 

I do feel like eventually it’s going to catch up and he might have a big get off, but I don’t think there is anyone that can match his aggression and speed right now. 

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Flatliner
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7/1/2024 10:34am

Have you seen De Wolfe ride the sand? Guessing not.

Southwick isn't lommel...... both sand but pretty different.  I like de wolf,  deegan's initial agression from the drop of the gate is really hard to match.

 

Would be interesting.

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LungButter
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7/1/2024 10:38am

Hard to compare when Deegs races 2 different disciplines in one year and De Wolf only races one.

That said, if we're talking best all around rider...it's obviously Deegan right?

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The Shop

7/1/2024 10:44am
Flatliner wrote:
Southwick isn't lommel...... both sand but pretty different.  I like de wolf,  deegan's initial agression from the drop of the gate is really hard to match...

Southwick isn't lommel...... both sand but pretty different.  I like de wolf,  deegan's initial agression from the drop of the gate is really hard to match.

 

Would be interesting.

That’s very true, Southwick looked flat compared with a GP at Lommel. 
 

I’m not disputing Deegan’s speed. It seems funny that people think that because Deegan won yesterday, all of a sudden he’s now the fastest 250 sand rider in the world. De Wolf grew up in the sand. He was showing Anderson & Osborne the fastest way around Lommel in 2018 when they went testing there. 
 

On a hard pack track, who knows? 

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mxxxeR1
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7/1/2024 11:03am

Deegan vs de wolf  i think de wolf would have a chance to win in america.........deegan has no chance to win in the netherlands ...if de wolf partcipates

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LungButter
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7/1/2024 11:05am
mxxxeR1 wrote:
Deegan vs de wolf  i think de wolf would have a chance to win in america.........deegan has no chance to win in the netherlands ...if de...

Deegan vs de wolf  i think de wolf would have a chance to win in america.........deegan has no chance to win in the netherlands ...if de wolf partcipates

de Wolf would have no chance to win at Anaheim....if like any one of 50 different Americans lined up Tongue

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DonM
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7/1/2024 11:13am
Flatliner wrote:
Southwick isn't lommel...... both sand but pretty different.  I like de wolf,  deegan's initial agression from the drop of the gate is really hard to match...

Southwick isn't lommel...... both sand but pretty different.  I like de wolf,  deegan's initial agression from the drop of the gate is really hard to match.

 

Would be interesting.

That’s very true, Southwick looked flat compared with a GP at Lommel.    I’m not disputing Deegan’s speed. It seems funny that people think that because...

That’s very true, Southwick looked flat compared with a GP at Lommel. 
 

I’m not disputing Deegan’s speed. It seems funny that people think that because Deegan won yesterday, all of a sudden he’s now the fastest 250 sand rider in the world. De Wolf grew up in the sand. He was showing Anderson & Osborne the fastest way around Lommel in 2018 when they went testing there. 
 

On a hard pack track, who knows? 

Pretty sure the comparison wasn't about the fastest sand rider....carry on....

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Press516
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7/1/2024 11:22am Edited Date/Time 7/1/2024 11:22am
Press516 wrote:
Vialle won back to back MX2 world titles, but now you see posts that he only won because Geerts gave it to him….  That’s like saying...

Vialle won back to back MX2 world titles, but now you see posts that he only won because Geerts gave it to him….  That’s like saying Jett only won because Chase tucked the front too many times…. JFC people.  Then Vialle goes back and beats them at MXoN.  Give Tom the credit he’s earned as a 2 time WC.

Tom said last year that the AMA 250 class is no joke and he thinks stronger than MX2.

But, unless they race a series, we won’t know… I don’t like the results of a 1 off event used to claim who’s best…

 

NVA57 wrote:
People also make Tom out to be some sort of sand god with the whole "Southwick should be his" talk, while he's not.

People also make Tom out to be some sort of sand god with the whole "Southwick should be his" talk, while he's not.

Screenshot 2024-07-01 at 19.24.43Screenshot 2024-07-01 at 19.24.56Screenshot 2024-07-01 at 19.25.11Screenshot 2024-07-01 at 19.25.21

I agree...  I think it was more based on that's his best track in the US at this point.  Or more importantly, it "was" Deegan's worst track.  Deegan is growing week by week and his craft is advancing at a very fast pace (pun intended).

There are certainly tracks where DeWolf and the Coenen's would be a good race for Deegan and maybe a Lommel where Deegan might not be a good race for DeWolf.  But overall, I think Deegs goes 7-3 if they race 10 times.  He's absolutely stepped it up.

Check the Southwick moto lap times if you don't think so.  Those numbers are real...  Even if the rest is just based on anecdotal evidence.

 

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1
7/1/2024 11:40am
DonM wrote:

Pretty sure the comparison wasn't about the fastest sand rider....carry on....

But it was though because people where saying have I watched Southwick, which just happens to be a sand(ish) track. 

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DonM
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7/1/2024 12:06pm
DonM wrote:

Pretty sure the comparison wasn't about the fastest sand rider....carry on....

But it was though because people where saying have I watched Southwick, which just happens to be a sand(ish) track. 

This is literally the OP....

 "Title says it all, who do y'all think is the best 250 rider in the world right now?".....I certainly don't see anything mentioned about sand....

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7/1/2024 12:24pm
DonM wrote:
This is literally the OP....  "Title says it all, who do y'all think is the best 250 rider in the world right now?".....I certainly don't see...

This is literally the OP....

 "Title says it all, who do y'all think is the best 250 rider in the world right now?".....I certainly don't see anything mentioned about sand....

Yeah & I said Deegan wouldn’t have won if De Wolf was racing Southwick. A sand track. The downvotes would suggest that De Wolf wouldn’t have beaten Deegan on sand. Then  someone said did I watch Southwick, which implies De Wolf wouldn’t have beaten Deegan in the sand. If people are suggesting the De Wolf couldn’t have beaten Deegan then that implies he is a better sand rider. 

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VHM
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7/1/2024 12:24pm
dboivin wrote:

de-who?

 
 
 

 

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DonM
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7/1/2024 12:38pm
DonM wrote:
This is literally the OP....  "Title says it all, who do y'all think is the best 250 rider in the world right now?".....I certainly don't see...

This is literally the OP....

 "Title says it all, who do y'all think is the best 250 rider in the world right now?".....I certainly don't see anything mentioned about sand....

Yeah & I said Deegan wouldn’t have won if De Wolf was racing Southwick. A sand track. The downvotes would suggest that De Wolf wouldn’t have...

Yeah & I said Deegan wouldn’t have won if De Wolf was racing Southwick. A sand track. The downvotes would suggest that De Wolf wouldn’t have beaten Deegan on sand. Then  someone said did I watch Southwick, which implies De Wolf wouldn’t have beaten Deegan in the sand. If people are suggesting the De Wolf couldn’t have beaten Deegan then that implies he is a better sand rider. 

And then you said that Soutwick was flat compared to Lommel and it's always the MXGP guys that try to make that comparison. What does Lommel have to do with Soutwick? if you're going to compare tracks you should be comparing Kegums with Southwick...Either way the question wasn't about who was the fastest in the sand....

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keinz
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7/1/2024 12:43pm
Flatliner wrote:
Southwick isn't lommel...... both sand but pretty different.  I like de wolf,  deegan's initial agression from the drop of the gate is really hard to match...

Southwick isn't lommel...... both sand but pretty different.  I like de wolf,  deegan's initial agression from the drop of the gate is really hard to match.

 

Would be interesting.

That’s very true, Southwick looked flat compared with a GP at Lommel.    I’m not disputing Deegan’s speed. It seems funny that people think that because...

That’s very true, Southwick looked flat compared with a GP at Lommel. 
 

I’m not disputing Deegan’s speed. It seems funny that people think that because Deegan won yesterday, all of a sudden he’s now the fastest 250 sand rider in the world. De Wolf grew up in the sand. He was showing Anderson & Osborne the fastest way around Lommel in 2018 when they went testing there. 
 

On a hard pack track, who knows? 

At age 14

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7/1/2024 12:46pm
DonM wrote:
And then you said that Soutwick was flat compared to Lommel and it's always the MXGP guys that try to make that comparison. What does Lommel...

And then you said that Soutwick was flat compared to Lommel and it's always the MXGP guys that try to make that comparison. What does Lommel have to do with Soutwick? if you're going to compare tracks you should be comparing Kegums with Southwick...Either way the question wasn't about who was the fastest in the sand....

Someone else brought up Lommel, I didn’t. I was just replying to them. 

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7/1/2024 1:35pm
LungButter wrote:
Hard to compare when Deegs races 2 different disciplines in one year and De Wolf only races one. That said, if we're talking best all around...

Hard to compare when Deegs races 2 different disciplines in one year and De Wolf only races one.

That said, if we're talking best all around rider...it's obviously Deegan right?

Who knows. Maybe Kay is a natural in SX? He could learn it in 12-16 months and be just as good as Vialle who beat Deegan to the title his second try.

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5
7/1/2024 1:37pm
Press516 wrote:
Vialle won back to back MX2 world titles, but now you see posts that he only won because Geerts gave it to him….  That’s like saying...

Vialle won back to back MX2 world titles, but now you see posts that he only won because Geerts gave it to him….  That’s like saying Jett only won because Chase tucked the front too many times…. JFC people.  Then Vialle goes back and beats them at MXoN.  Give Tom the credit he’s earned as a 2 time WC.

Tom said last year that the AMA 250 class is no joke and he thinks stronger than MX2.

But, unless they race a series, we won’t know… I don’t like the results of a 1 off event used to claim who’s best…

 

I’m a big Tom fan even from his GP days. The thing is, he was never the fastest guy out there despite winning lots of races. His biggest advantage was getting starts and putting in a couple sprint laps, while Geerts was either making mistakes or coming through the pack. Geerts was wicked fast but made mistakes and was to inconsistent. The problem is now he’s appears to have lost his start magic and is up against someone just as consistent and prob a better starter right now. If vialle got a bad start in GPs he never really came through the pack well. I still think he will figure it out, but be to little to late is year. As much as I’m not a fan, Degan has it figured out just now. I do keep waiting on the wild riding style to catch up with him eventually, but he appears strong enough and fit enough to muscle the bike about. 

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LungButter
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7/1/2024 2:11pm
crusty_xx wrote:
Who knows. Maybe Kay is a natural in SX? He could learn it in 12-16 months and be just as good as Vialle who beat Deegan...

Who knows. Maybe Kay is a natural in SX? He could learn it in 12-16 months and be just as good as Vialle who beat Deegan to the title his second try.

Oh, I missed the part where it was about who could be the best 250 rider in the next 12-16 months.  I thought we were talking about right now.

 

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NateDawg241
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7/1/2024 2:21pm
crusty_xx wrote:
Who knows. Maybe Kay is a natural in SX? He could learn it in 12-16 months and be just as good as Vialle who beat Deegan...

Who knows. Maybe Kay is a natural in SX? He could learn it in 12-16 months and be just as good as Vialle who beat Deegan to the title his second try.

LungButter wrote:
Oh, I missed the part where it was about who could be the best 250 rider in the next 12-16 months.  I thought we were talking...

Oh, I missed the part where it was about who could be the best 250 rider in the next 12-16 months.  I thought we were talking about right now.

 

I mean Deegan was probably the 3rd or 4th best SX rider on the East Coast alone this year so it's not like he's some dominant force in Supercross. And the East Coast was undoubtedly weaker than the West this year

And I think de Wolf is better outdoors than Deegan even though that's Deegan's biggest strength

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Chris_Buehler
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7/1/2024 2:26pm

We'll never know unless they race a series together. The MXdN doesn't settle anything.  Both amazing young talents. I just know what I've seen from watching Deegan. Especially after seeing him Sat, being at the race. His desire to win is second to none. I wouldn't bet against him

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LungButter
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7/1/2024 2:34pm
I mean Deegan was probably the 3rd or 4th best SX rider on the East Coast alone this year so it's not like he's some dominant...

I mean Deegan was probably the 3rd or 4th best SX rider on the East Coast alone this year so it's not like he's some dominant force in Supercross. And the East Coast was undoubtedly weaker than the West this year

And I think de Wolf is better outdoors than Deegan even though that's Deegan's biggest strength

If we're gonna claim de Wolf to be a better rider he'd need to prove he was somewhere in the same league at SX right?

My whole point is, it's Apples to Oranges to compare these Euros who are one trick ponies to the guys in the US who race 2 disciplines.  US based guys spend 7-8 months of the year concentrating on a different discipline than Motocross and still hold their own with the MXGP guys in Motocross, which is the only discipline MXGP guys ride....US based guys are clearly better riders

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philG
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7/1/2024 2:53pm

Southwick is no  Lommel, which is no Lierop. 

Deegan is a generational talent, who has made pretty much all of the rest of the 250 class also rans. Now he is in the position where he is expected to win, and he does, there arent enough guys who can run his pace to make it interesting .

If the Coenens, and DeWulf come to the US, there are going to be a lot of US guys looking for rides, maybe time for a few to come the other way. 

This is what happened in the 90's when Moore, Healey, Dymond , and Schmit came this way.  

There are less 'top level ' riders now ,  there are 6 guys in MX2 who can regularly win races,  KdW, Coenens,Laengenfelder, Everts,Benistant.  250 Class has 4, Deegan, Shimoda, Vialle and Kitchen (maybe)... Masterpool is still a maybe, i know he won, but that could be is as good as it gets for him, bearing in mind he could have been a 5th place guy in 450 base on the field and his rides last year had Factory Kawasaki done the right thing. That said, he could have realised, that Kawasaki isnt a great 450 team, and not wanted it. 

I would say MX2 isnt as strong as it was, when it had Geerts,Vialle, and Renaux in it, but its fair to say that Adamo as reigning champ is no Vialle. 

Pop Shmoke
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7/1/2024 3:28pm

I hope dewolf comes over that kid is soooo fun to watch! Prob my favorite rider right now.

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7/1/2024 3:37pm
Sully wrote:
Seems to me the des Nations at Matterley Basin is probably the most neutral grounds to find out. Plus when you mix in at least one...

Seems to me the des Nations at Matterley Basin is probably the most neutral grounds to find out. Plus when you mix in at least one of the Coenen brothers, the big winner is going to be the fans. 

Australia would be better, for obvious reasons.

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ML512
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7/1/2024 5:21pm
Pop Shmoke wrote:

I hope dewolf comes over that kid is soooo fun to watch! Prob my favorite rider right now.

Good chance for 2026...

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FastEddy
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7/1/2024 5:22pm
Sully wrote:
Seems to me the des Nations at Matterley Basin is probably the most neutral grounds to find out. Plus when you mix in at least one...

Seems to me the des Nations at Matterley Basin is probably the most neutral grounds to find out. Plus when you mix in at least one of the Coenen brothers, the big winner is going to be the fans. 

Yep. Matterley should be good.   In 2006 Team USA  did great there.  2017 we got 9th I think, ,but Eli & Blake sat it out...Zach was the best we had. But it seemed the track and soil could easily be an AMA track.

 

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Sully
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7/1/2024 6:59pm
Sully wrote:
Seems to me the des Nations at Matterley Basin is probably the most neutral grounds to find out. Plus when you mix in at least one...

Seems to me the des Nations at Matterley Basin is probably the most neutral grounds to find out. Plus when you mix in at least one of the Coenen brothers, the big winner is going to be the fans. 

FastEddy wrote:
Yep. Matterley should be good.   In 2006 Team USA  did great there.  2017 we got 9th I think, ,but Eli & Blake sat it out...Zach was the...

Yep. Matterley should be good.   In 2006 Team USA  did great there.  2017 we got 9th I think, ,but Eli & Blake sat it out...Zach was the best we had. But it seemed the track and soil could easily be an AMA track.

 

Seely's shock blowing up didn't help us much either. 

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