The GPs are the better series.....

wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 4/26/2010 11:49am
4/26/2010 11:49am
I've really enjoyed watching the gp's on Freecaster so far.
kongols
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kongols 4/26/2010 11:56am
4/26/2010 11:56am
cpj36 wrote:
B-minus bikes too, and on their tracks. MXDN only settles it when the U.S. doesn't win. Team USA can never ride with the overall in mind...
B-minus bikes too, and on their tracks.

MXDN only settles it when the U.S. doesn't win.

Team USA can never ride with the overall in mind either, it's the smart thing when a GP rider does it but an excuse for getting beat when it's a U.S. rider.
Haha, poor americans came to MXdN with underpowered bikes! There`s a joke of the day.
neverwas 4/26/2010 12:09pm
4/26/2010 12:09pm
ky_savage wrote:
I would love to see some TV coverage here in the US. I love the AMA Nationals, but I'm growing tired of them at the same...
I would love to see some TV coverage here in the US. I love the AMA Nationals, but I'm growing tired of them at the same time. Same with SX. I just want more of a variety. With that being said, would some network here in the states please bring the GP's???
Altitude channel on Directv
burnside
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burnside 4/26/2010 12:16pm
4/26/2010 12:16pm
The biggest let down to me with the GP's is the TV coverage. Its so boring. Wish they could poach one of the producers from the Nationals TV package and spice things up a bit. I really struggle to stay glued to a full GP race, but won't miss a national. The Yanks deffo kick Euro ass at moto-TV thats for sure.

Saying that, from what I recall, the Yanks have a thing or two to learn about reliable live web coverage from the Euros, some of those ball ups last year were painful! Always seemed to screw up as the action was starting.

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JW381
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JW381 4/26/2010 12:32pm
4/26/2010 12:32pm
The MXdN is all we have as far as international competition (unless you count all the GP folk coming over to race in America) so everything else is just speculation.

There, case closed. Discussion over.
joe101uk
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joe101uk 4/26/2010 12:44pm
4/26/2010 12:44pm
What's with all the talk about GP bikes being better ?

I'd rather have one of Mitch's bikes than a CLS Kawasaki.

I'd rather have a Makita Suzuki than a TEKA Suzuki.

I'd rather have a GEICO/Red Bull Honda than a Martin/CAS Honda.
usa441
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usa441 4/26/2010 12:47pm
4/26/2010 12:47pm
burnside wrote:
The biggest let down to me with the GP's is the TV coverage. Its so boring. Wish they could poach one of the producers from the...
The biggest let down to me with the GP's is the TV coverage. Its so boring. Wish they could poach one of the producers from the Nationals TV package and spice things up a bit. I really struggle to stay glued to a full GP race, but won't miss a national. The Yanks deffo kick Euro ass at moto-TV thats for sure.

Saying that, from what I recall, the Yanks have a thing or two to learn about reliable live web coverage from the Euros, some of those ball ups last year were painful! Always seemed to screw up as the action was starting.
Go 2 this website ( jeffrey herlings his)
JEFFREY HERLINGS MOVIES
and watch " Supercross Schijndel: Zaterdag"
And watch the other 2005/2006 movies on his website. Anstie never had a change beating Herlings... herlings will still beat him at MX and SX. MX 4 sure.
joe101uk
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joe101uk 4/26/2010 12:58pm
4/26/2010 12:58pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
They had worked the corners Malin reported at one point.. But what you're saying is that they in fact do not leave the track alone if...
They had worked the corners Malin reported at one point.. But what you're saying is that they in fact do not leave the track alone if it needs attention.

And I think tis notion that the US tracks are constantly smoothed during the day is way overblown. Couple things; in the last decade of going to nats, the only real offense to the roughness of a track that I saw that went beyond what I thought was a safety issue was smoothing a high speed straight past the finish at Southwick (and even that wasn't enough to help DeReuver finish the moto without pooping out Wink ) IMO sand tracks should be

I hate seeing whoops taken out I dont have a real issue with ruts getting put down because in most cases at most tracks they aren't a natural feature; they're the byproduct of ripping the track deep and watering it to keep dust down. I don't think anyone objects to the improvements in dust suppression.

So I think this whole don't work tracks/work tracks distinction is more myth than fact.

I don't understand the OP notion that all the US tracks have the same dirt. All the west coast races are pretty different, as are Texas, Millville, Red Bud and Budds Creeks. Unadilla ain't Hangtown.

The GP's have great racing and great riders. They're especially good when SX is the option here. I can't get enough outdoor racing.

joe101uk wrote:
Well if they worked on the corners then i hope they had a good reason for it. You can see what has been worked on and...
Well if they worked on the corners then i hope they had a good reason for it. You can see what has been worked on and what hasn't. What was your whole take on the track on Sunday ? You could see that the roughest parts of the track were left alone.

Wait until the Lommel or the Lierop GP. They are the roughest tracks i have ever seen and they really do leave those places to get torn up. But hey, I'm not the track workers so this year they might be taking a different approach to the track work. Send an email to Youthstream or something haha.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
Joe, I loved Mantova at the GP. After that rain the soil looked great and the lay out was nice. My point is that this tit-for-tat...
Joe, I loved Mantova at the GP. After that rain the soil looked great and the lay out was nice.

My point is that this tit-for-tat thing that goes on between the GPs and US Nats fans about tracks is more BS than not. People are grasping for issues to bash one another about. I'm still not sure where this line of thinking that "we're hard core because we don't touch our tracks and you do" came about and what it's based on other than internet ignorance getting recycled so many times people start treating rhetoric as fact.

I hope they don't treat Lommel or Lierop. The toss up for me for best MX tracks are any sand track and a grassy hill track. I was blessed to ride virgin grass tracks in the Nor Cal coastal foothills like Hollister, Sears, and one of the great US sand tracks, Plymouth, when I was growing up. But the best season for riding those tracks was, in Cali, November to April.

I can tell you from experiencing it too often here in the states in the 70's, and it wasn't any better in Europe then, that there's nothing worse than a baked dusty track. In the states, particularly the west where the rainy season ends by early May, running a series in the summer means you have to prep tracks. That creates issues in itself, but the trade off against dust makes it worth it, for the spectators and the riders.

Anyway, rambling now.

Mantova is great but I used to love the old Italian GP of Montevarchi. Cairoli and Philippaerts tried killing eachother around that place in 2006 and it was one of the best races i have ever seen.

Yeah I'm not too sure where all of the shit tossing started about the grooming of tracks but you honestly don't see it much in the GP's. The holeshot gets groomed after every start i know that. Ask Mccread because he probably knows.
THE mx addict 4/26/2010 12:59pm
4/26/2010 12:59pm
DC wrote :

"Pourcel would dominate the MX2 class in Europe right now, and I also think Barcia is still better than Roczen and Herlings."


Honestly, I really doubt about Barcia's superiority over Roczen and Herlings (in MX)...
Asher
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Asher 4/26/2010 1:15pm
4/26/2010 1:15pm
THE mx addict wrote:
DC wrote : "Pourcel would dominate the MX2 class in Europe right now, and I also think Barcia is still better than Roczen and Herlings." Honestly...
DC wrote :

"Pourcel would dominate the MX2 class in Europe right now, and I also think Barcia is still better than Roczen and Herlings."


Honestly, I really doubt about Barcia's superiority over Roczen and Herlings (in MX)...
agreed.... DC you have lost your mind.
englishman
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englishman 4/26/2010 1:37pm
4/26/2010 1:37pm
joe101uk wrote:
What's with all the talk about GP bikes being better ? I'd rather have one of Mitch's bikes than a CLS Kawasaki. I'd rather have a...
What's with all the talk about GP bikes being better ?

I'd rather have one of Mitch's bikes than a CLS Kawasaki.

I'd rather have a Makita Suzuki than a TEKA Suzuki.

I'd rather have a GEICO/Red Bull Honda than a Martin/CAS Honda.
Why ???
Alex
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Alex 4/26/2010 1:39pm
4/26/2010 1:39pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:24pm
I dont think Pourcel would 'dominate' anything in Europe. Hes quick in SX but outdoors he was never that fast. He pretty much fluked his title in Europe by avoiding DNFs. He won 4 motos that year. Tyla won 5, David won 6 and Cairoli won 13 motos.


In 2007 up untill the Irish GP he had won 4 motos and Cairoli had won 19 motos. He wasnt in the same class as AC. Hes done well to come back to the speed he has after the injury but to assume he would 'dominate' MX2 GPs is a bit far fetched I think.
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Huckster 4/26/2010 1:48pm
4/26/2010 1:48pm
THE mx addict wrote:
DC wrote : "Pourcel would dominate the MX2 class in Europe right now, and I also think Barcia is still better than Roczen and Herlings." Honestly...
DC wrote :

"Pourcel would dominate the MX2 class in Europe right now, and I also think Barcia is still better than Roczen and Herlings."


Honestly, I really doubt about Barcia's superiority over Roczen and Herlings (in MX)...
Asher wrote:
agreed.... DC you have lost your mind.
what is your reasoning behind that doubt? Seriously, what makes you think Roczen and Herlings are both faster than Justin. You must throw Musquin in there as well as he has beaten both of them this year?

My reasoning for believing Justin is faster is simple. he has beaten Dungey straight up. He has also beaten Pourcel, Rattray and Searle and not to mention he smoked Roczen the only time the 2 have actually raced together. And dont give me the age BS because Pourcel is 4 yrs older than Justin and dungey is 3yrs older. That excuse is null and void IMHO.
THE mx addict 4/26/2010 2:08pm
4/26/2010 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 4/26/2010 2:09pm
THE mx addict wrote:
DC wrote : "Pourcel would dominate the MX2 class in Europe right now, and I also think Barcia is still better than Roczen and Herlings." Honestly...
DC wrote :

"Pourcel would dominate the MX2 class in Europe right now, and I also think Barcia is still better than Roczen and Herlings."


Honestly, I really doubt about Barcia's superiority over Roczen and Herlings (in MX)...
Asher wrote:
agreed.... DC you have lost your mind.
Huckster wrote:
what is your reasoning behind that doubt? Seriously, what makes you think Roczen and Herlings are both faster than Justin. You must throw Musquin in there...
what is your reasoning behind that doubt? Seriously, what makes you think Roczen and Herlings are both faster than Justin. You must throw Musquin in there as well as he has beaten both of them this year?

My reasoning for believing Justin is faster is simple. he has beaten Dungey straight up. He has also beaten Pourcel, Rattray and Searle and not to mention he smoked Roczen the only time the 2 have actually raced together. And dont give me the age BS because Pourcel is 4 yrs older than Justin and dungey is 3yrs older. That excuse is null and void IMHO.
Nobody's told you that Herlings and Roczen were faster than Barcia.
mxwrench66
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mxwrench66 4/26/2010 2:09pm
4/26/2010 2:09pm
There is no mx2/ lites rider in the world that is faster than Herlings in the sand. This is coming from someone who has watched all these kids in person as of late. On another note I would be surprised if Herlings could top 5 a national like hangtown, washougal, or Steel City. If they would let southwick get rough Herlings would smoke those boys hands down......Wait he is only 15. nevermind
ayearinmx
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ayearinmx 4/26/2010 2:19pm
4/26/2010 2:19pm
mxwrench66 wrote:
There is no mx2/ lites rider in the world that is faster than Herlings in the sand. This is coming from someone who has watched all...
There is no mx2/ lites rider in the world that is faster than Herlings in the sand. This is coming from someone who has watched all these kids in person as of late. On another note I would be surprised if Herlings could top 5 a national like hangtown, washougal, or Steel City. If they would let southwick get rough Herlings would smoke those boys hands down......Wait he is only 15. nevermind
listen...... just because you've seen all the riders involved in this discussion ride, doesn't mean your opinion is valid here.... pure speculation and 3yr old results are the solid basis for arguments when it concerns barcia/herlings/roczen

jeeeeez..... some people Wink
DC
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DC 4/26/2010 2:24pm
4/26/2010 2:24pm
I like to think I have a pretty good eye for talent, and I just personally think you guys are discounting how fast the kids over here really are. I saw Barcia do some incredible stuff last year as a rookie, and he's even faster now. So are Weimer and Canard, and certainly Pourcel.

I am not discounting Jeffrey and Ken, but you keep talking about how we have "no depth" here, but I think two 15-year-olds running up front says something about the depth in Europe in that particular class. It's not a slam, just an honest bench-racing observation...

Watching Herlings in the sand yesterday, yes, I am a believer. But Barcia's not bad in the sand either -- he came stuck-in-the-gate to winning Southwick last year, but everyone seems to have already forgotten about that!

DC
MX Sports

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Huckster 4/26/2010 2:34pm
4/26/2010 2:34pm
Asher wrote:
agreed.... DC you have lost your mind.
Huckster wrote:
what is your reasoning behind that doubt? Seriously, what makes you think Roczen and Herlings are both faster than Justin. You must throw Musquin in there...
what is your reasoning behind that doubt? Seriously, what makes you think Roczen and Herlings are both faster than Justin. You must throw Musquin in there as well as he has beaten both of them this year?

My reasoning for believing Justin is faster is simple. he has beaten Dungey straight up. He has also beaten Pourcel, Rattray and Searle and not to mention he smoked Roczen the only time the 2 have actually raced together. And dont give me the age BS because Pourcel is 4 yrs older than Justin and dungey is 3yrs older. That excuse is null and void IMHO.
THE mx addict wrote:
Nobody's told you that Herlings and Roczen were faster than Barcia.
What does this mean then? Please translate for clarity sake...

"Honestly, I really doubt about Barcia's superiority over Roczen and Herlings (in MX)..."

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Alex
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Alex 4/26/2010 2:38pm
4/26/2010 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 4/26/2010 2:41pm
250 class is stacked in the states everyone aknowledged that last year. I think the bench racing on depth comes from MX1 class and seing guys like Strijboss or whoever finishing outside the top 20 and comparing it to the 450 class ravaged by SX injuries etc.. Theres not much in it either way. Anyway. Davey. Now you have a 350 lining up in the '450' class soon are you guys gonna finally give in and do the sensible thing with the class names Wink
THE mx addict 4/26/2010 2:42pm
4/26/2010 2:42pm
Huckster wrote:
What does this mean then? Please translate for clarity sake...

"Honestly, I really doubt about Barcia's superiority over Roczen and Herlings (in MX)..."

Similar raw speed, I would say...
DC
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DC 4/26/2010 2:44pm
4/26/2010 2:44pm
We did the sensible thing: We named each one after the maximum CCs allowed! That means 250 and 450, right?

I know what you mean on the injuries too. We've had a tough run the last couple of years here to say the least. It's a HUGE change from when you just knew that RC was going to show up every single weekend, which he did for ten years outdoors.

DC
MX Sports
THE mx addict 4/26/2010 2:45pm
4/26/2010 2:45pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:25pm
DC wrote:
I like to think I have a pretty good eye for talent, and I just personally think you guys are discounting how fast the kids over...
I like to think I have a pretty good eye for talent, and I just personally think you guys are discounting how fast the kids over here really are. I saw Barcia do some incredible stuff last year as a rookie, and he's even faster now. So are Weimer and Canard, and certainly Pourcel.

I am not discounting Jeffrey and Ken, but you keep talking about how we have "no depth" here, but I think two 15-year-olds running up front says something about the depth in Europe in that particular class. It's not a slam, just an honest bench-racing observation...

Watching Herlings in the sand yesterday, yes, I am a believer. But Barcia's not bad in the sand either -- he came stuck-in-the-gate to winning Southwick last year, but everyone seems to have already forgotten about that!

DC
MX Sports

Like Xavier (Audouard) said in another thread, there won't be others "Herlings" and "Roczen" in Europe before a very long time...


They both are very "specials"...


So the "age argument" is not in my opinion an accurate one.
Alex
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Alex 4/26/2010 2:46pm
4/26/2010 2:46pm
Aah ok. I was thinking we were in for another name change.
mxwrench66
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mxwrench66 4/26/2010 2:48pm
4/26/2010 2:48pm
DC wrote:
I like to think I have a pretty good eye for talent, and I just personally think you guys are discounting how fast the kids over...
I like to think I have a pretty good eye for talent, and I just personally think you guys are discounting how fast the kids over here really are. I saw Barcia do some incredible stuff last year as a rookie, and he's even faster now. So are Weimer and Canard, and certainly Pourcel.

I am not discounting Jeffrey and Ken, but you keep talking about how we have "no depth" here, but I think two 15-year-olds running up front says something about the depth in Europe in that particular class. It's not a slam, just an honest bench-racing observation...

Watching Herlings in the sand yesterday, yes, I am a believer. But Barcia's not bad in the sand either -- he came stuck-in-the-gate to winning Southwick last year, but everyone seems to have already forgotten about that!

DC
MX Sports

For sure the Lites class in america is deeper! I just think europe has never had this much young talent at once. I agree that Canard and Pourcel are the two best lites riders in world along with Musquin. Barcia has the speed of those 3 IMO maybe even more raw speed than anyone for that matter but he has yet to show any consistency. On another note roczen is the most mature 15 year old I have ever encountered. His strong mentality and his ability to remain smooth under pressure reminds me of Trey. Also he actually shifts his bike which is refreshing. I came over here with alot of respect for the gp's and the riders and still I had under estimated the talent here. There is no way of knowing until you have seen both sides. Thats why i can respect Davey and Davids posts.
joe101uk
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joe101uk 4/26/2010 2:56pm
4/26/2010 2:56pm
DC wrote:
I like to think I have a pretty good eye for talent, and I just personally think you guys are discounting how fast the kids over...
I like to think I have a pretty good eye for talent, and I just personally think you guys are discounting how fast the kids over here really are. I saw Barcia do some incredible stuff last year as a rookie, and he's even faster now. So are Weimer and Canard, and certainly Pourcel.

I am not discounting Jeffrey and Ken, but you keep talking about how we have "no depth" here, but I think two 15-year-olds running up front says something about the depth in Europe in that particular class. It's not a slam, just an honest bench-racing observation...

Watching Herlings in the sand yesterday, yes, I am a believer. But Barcia's not bad in the sand either -- he came stuck-in-the-gate to winning Southwick last year, but everyone seems to have already forgotten about that!

DC
MX Sports

mxwrench66 wrote:
For sure the Lites class in america is deeper! I just think europe has never had this much young talent at once. I agree that Canard...
For sure the Lites class in america is deeper! I just think europe has never had this much young talent at once. I agree that Canard and Pourcel are the two best lites riders in world along with Musquin. Barcia has the speed of those 3 IMO maybe even more raw speed than anyone for that matter but he has yet to show any consistency. On another note roczen is the most mature 15 year old I have ever encountered. His strong mentality and his ability to remain smooth under pressure reminds me of Trey. Also he actually shifts his bike which is refreshing. I came over here with alot of respect for the gp's and the riders and still I had under estimated the talent here. There is no way of knowing until you have seen both sides. Thats why i can respect Davey and Davids posts.
Canard is awesome but i wouldn't say he's on the same level as Pourcel. When was the last time Canard completed a motocross season ?
mxwrench66
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mxwrench66 4/26/2010 3:12pm
4/26/2010 3:12pm
DC wrote:
I like to think I have a pretty good eye for talent, and I just personally think you guys are discounting how fast the kids over...
I like to think I have a pretty good eye for talent, and I just personally think you guys are discounting how fast the kids over here really are. I saw Barcia do some incredible stuff last year as a rookie, and he's even faster now. So are Weimer and Canard, and certainly Pourcel.

I am not discounting Jeffrey and Ken, but you keep talking about how we have "no depth" here, but I think two 15-year-olds running up front says something about the depth in Europe in that particular class. It's not a slam, just an honest bench-racing observation...

Watching Herlings in the sand yesterday, yes, I am a believer. But Barcia's not bad in the sand either -- he came stuck-in-the-gate to winning Southwick last year, but everyone seems to have already forgotten about that!

DC
MX Sports

mxwrench66 wrote:
For sure the Lites class in america is deeper! I just think europe has never had this much young talent at once. I agree that Canard...
For sure the Lites class in america is deeper! I just think europe has never had this much young talent at once. I agree that Canard and Pourcel are the two best lites riders in world along with Musquin. Barcia has the speed of those 3 IMO maybe even more raw speed than anyone for that matter but he has yet to show any consistency. On another note roczen is the most mature 15 year old I have ever encountered. His strong mentality and his ability to remain smooth under pressure reminds me of Trey. Also he actually shifts his bike which is refreshing. I came over here with alot of respect for the gp's and the riders and still I had under estimated the talent here. There is no way of knowing until you have seen both sides. Thats why i can respect Davey and Davids posts.
joe101uk wrote:
Canard is awesome but i wouldn't say he's on the same level as Pourcel. When was the last time Canard completed a motocross season ?
Just wait homie! enough said.
THE mx addict 4/26/2010 3:13pm
4/26/2010 3:13pm
Alex wrote:
I dont think Pourcel would 'dominate' anything in Europe. Hes quick in SX but outdoors he was never that fast. He pretty much fluked his title...
I dont think Pourcel would 'dominate' anything in Europe. Hes quick in SX but outdoors he was never that fast. He pretty much fluked his title in Europe by avoiding DNFs. He won 4 motos that year. Tyla won 5, David won 6 and Cairoli won 13 motos.


In 2007 up untill the Irish GP he had won 4 motos and Cairoli had won 19 motos. He wasnt in the same class as AC. Hes done well to come back to the speed he has after the injury but to assume he would 'dominate' MX2 GPs is a bit far fetched I think.
That's not exactly the "same" Pourcel today..
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Albee702 4/26/2010 3:13pm
4/26/2010 3:13pm
Herlings and Roczen are just amazing in my book. 15 years old and winning is insane! But I do think that AMA has the GP's beat in the depth department in the 250f class. It seems to me like GP's have
Musquin
Herlings
Roczen
Paulin(injured)
Frossward(spelling)
Simpson
Tonus
Zack, who by the way was on the gas this weekend and had a shot at the podium if he would have stayed on two wheels.

In America you have...
Canard(2008 east sx champ)
Pourcel (world champ, two time east sx champ)
Rattray (world champ)
Searle (vice world champ)
Weimer (soon to be west sx champ and national winner)
Barcia (National winner/ Beast from the East)
Wharton (holeshot master/ hell of a racer)
Tomac ( I think will surprise a lot of people)
Tickle (seattle sx winner)
Stroupe (fastest at the races when he is on and not hurt)
Anstie (was roczen rival in europain amateur racing/ very young)
wilson (horizon winner)
Baggett (Dallas sx winner)
Hahn (new team, new attitude)
Izzi (could be fast, could be done)
Davalos (Great starter, so fast at times)

Note, Davalos and Rattrey would be out of the age limit in the GP's

Both series have good racers no doubt! But you won't see Roczen and Herlings in the US for another three years so I'm sure this will be a topic until then! lol


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Huckster 4/26/2010 3:27pm
4/26/2010 3:27pm
Thanks Albee. Nice to get an "opinion" from someone who has actually been there and done it.

Good luck the rest of the year!!!!
jamma10
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jamma10 4/26/2010 3:37pm
4/26/2010 3:37pm
Nicco Izzi is still an unkown quantity as far as Im concerned. There was alot of hype about him a few years back but I've yet to see what he's capable of - I hope he stays healthy for a while, I wanna see the guy race!

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