Stark Varg Racing Debut

The haters seem shocked that the Stark isn’t the best option for every type of ride. 
 

Neither is a 450 MX bike. Shocking. Take that 450 MX bike where FE501s bikes are built for, won’t work.

its almost like the Stark wasn’t designed to do a 3 hour beach race…

How are you liking your Varg, Beagle? 

Oh that's right, you said you won't be speaking with your wallet on this fascinating and superior machine.  You just like to talk about it.  Meanwhile, the rest of us are speaking with our wallets... and gas cans.

I don’t understand why the power is such an issue for amateur and even 450 class racing. Marshal Weltin was talking on pulp that he has to slow down his 450 for super cross. Even if it was faster than a 450, it’s mostly down to the rider anyway. 
 

as a guy who races vet class I don’t care if a guy lines up to me with a 450 a 500 or an 80hp varg. I ride a 250 because 450s are too much I won’t go any faster on a faster bike. 
 

I can see the power limit in the 250 class where hp is important, but for 450 SX who cares how much power it has? There isn’t a limit on the gas bikes and they are trying to make them slower anyway. I bet most pros if given the option to ride the varg at 80hp or 60 they would probably pick 60 anyway.

I think that's a way to reassure everyone but you're right, IIRC Justin Bogle said he used about 55 hp for AXUK, no need for power limit in this championship .

I like Motorcycling Australia motto "Ride. Race. Enjoy." It's great to see more federations finding a way for electric bike owners to enjoy themselves, having fun on 2 wheels is what it's all about.

The Team owner , owns Bathmate. 

And he has a Stark as well.

They sponsored me for 3 years in the ADAC championship in Germany. 

I didn't get Mav's comment so had to Google the brand, assumed they were into bathtubs... I guess not 

Awesome for him to set up his own team 👍

I have to ask. If a rider wins a race or podiums, does he bring one on stage instead of a Monster Energy drink? ​​

Cool that he is supporting the sport and able to at what looks like a pretty high level.

That would be funny to see walk out carrying one instead of the normal bottle or can and or hear him thank them.  "I just couldn't have pulled off that win with out it. We have been hard at work testing ,and we have made some major gains. And most of all I would like to thank my wife and the big man upstairs" 

The  time that New England Keith Johnson thanked EZ wider rolling paper on the podium after a 3rd place moto is the most awkward podium speech I have heard. Maybe it was the teenage me, combined with a nervous rider that makes me remember it that way.  But I remember him sounding normal and than hesitating as he was thanking the rolling paper company. 

The 3d Racing team was able to get a decent amount of money from them to be a title sponsor back in the late 90's /early 2000's. It was rumored to be over a million bucks .     

He part sponsored the Superbiker Supermoto event last year, all the podium finishers got one.  

If you are a an athlete that works out , they are a proper health benefit, aside of all the jokes. 

He was up for running Alta's but they never made it to the UK, my personal sponsor in Germany was trying to become German importer , but it all went west. 

They have waited a long time for the Stark's , they are both well specced, i will get more photo's at the next race ain a few weeks time. 

I did not mean to offend anybody with my post. So I am sorry if I did. I was just trying to be funny.  

I went to the website to see what it was after Mavericks post. And I saw that there are Dr's quoted  saying how it can help benefit health. The style of the site and info on it has more of a medical device/ workout gear feel to it. It was not what I expected.  Amazing to see somebody take a device that  is often the subject of jokes and present it in such a professional way.  I defiantly have a new perspective on the device itself. And its awesome he is so involved in  racing.

Thank you for sharing the info.

Yeah that little piece of info certainly messed up my google search algorithm. I should have known better!

Great vid!

The Miot brothers are pro sand racers, Mathéo got 9th this year at Le Touquet beach race.

For those who don't speak French, the first words Florian can utter are "oh it's crazy" at 50 hp, then he tries 80 hp and says "I'm gonna buy one, it's a fighter jet, it pulls better than my 450 in the sand". He says he felt immediately comfortable on it (as you can tell from the vid), he loves the handbrake and praises the handling as well. He went up to about 140 km/h.

First words for Mathéo are the same "that thing is crazy". Then he got some kind of technical issue lacking power after about 15 min at such speeds.

These are possibly the most taxing conditions for an electric, as expected the Varg is absolutely not ready to race sand with such short range (30% in 6 min so maybe about 15 min range in the sand with a pro rider) and likely thermal issues under the Moroccan sun.

Yet both riders came away quite impressed with the bike, they were using regular dirt tires on the sand and can't wait to try it on the dirt.

None was taken, but its a serious subject that guys tend to laugh off. 

I know he has FDA approval to sell in the USA , everything is made here in the UK, he 3d prints all the prototype stuff , works 16 hour days , and is a proper motohead, worked hard to get where he is. 

They will sort the bikes out, one way or another, there was a point where he was going to just do his own, And he would have. 

I just wanted to make sure my intent was clear. It can be hard to know sometimes, just reading the text alone. 

  Sounds like a great guy to be tinkering with the Varg. I'll have to try and watch some of those races. You said they livestream them right?  Since this is a thread about Varg racing. I hope that You will provide updates on his experiences with the Varg.  Other than the obvious lack of runtime being an issue. Electric power really can be amazing.  

Thank You for providing some translations. I had no idea what was going on as far as the issues. They sounded like they loved the bike. I thought they were just trying the power modes ,since I did not know what they were saying.  

There is a local kid that I used to bring to nationals. Well I guess he's not a kid anymore. But he was an on the bubble of qualifying at most tracks and made it into a few 250 and 450 nationals. He has an Alta and has had it for a few years now.  

He races some local  moto and Jday off road races with it. At Jday they run (2) 30 minute motos. And he almost always  holeshots every moto he is in. He is good on a gas bike too. But insane at starts on the Alta. In the Pro class , he can only make it about 15 to 20 minutes of the moto at Southwick before getting too hot or the battery dies .They run the moto track that is used for the national and trails mixed in. For a while he was looking for races with big  holeshot prizes and going to them and just getting  holeshots .

With NESC and other New England race series starting up , I'm sure its only a matter of time before I see some of them showing up in the results. NESC is at Southwick tomorrow , if there are any Vargs I'll post about anything I hear about as far as runtime. Its going to be cool so heat shouldn't be an issue.

Justin Bogle's mechanic, Ricard Caellas, competed in Catalunya championship this weekend, no problem to race two 30 min motos (25 min + 2 laps).

Same question to you.... if you aren't buying one, why do you care if other people talk about it?

Just wanna make yourself feel important?

The rest of us?

I speak with my wallet, my plug in and my gas cans. I ride them all. You know why, because they are all better at certain riding types and they all have 2 wheels so they are all a blast.

Get off your high horse and go complain that the 2022 CRF250r thread is so long with people still discussing the same bike over and over whether they have one or not. 

I'm just gonna leave this here. . .

Would you say that electrics are gaining traction with the AMA? 

Mate of mine just got one, no pre-order, just bought from a dealer over here after a test ride.

He's not some Tesla asshole, he's had a lot of badass cars and 250's, 350's, 450's and a few superbikes etc, so not your typical 'electric' bloke.

Reckons the Varg is the best bike he's ever had...

Nope 

Still holding out hope I can race Endurocross this year on the YZ-EMX, ya know, just like I did the last two years without issue. . .

Lengthy article in Moto verte about electrics, I won't copy and translate everything, here are a few snippets from industry players quoted in said article :

Jean-Luc Fouchet (head of events organizer JLFO responsible for France SX tour, Paris SX and much more):

“In the same way as for trials, I believe that electrics have a real future in enduro. For one reason only, the noise. The absence of noise solves a lot of issues. As an organizer, race schedules are disrupted for these reasons. I don't get into technology and pollution problems but the noise invites us to think that this is the solution. We don't get off on the noise. With downhill mountain bikes, you can enjoy yourself without noise. There will not be aggressive throttle and clutch dumping but we won't bother anyone. In certain areas, we ride or not depending on the noise. We must think. And then for trails, woods, it’s perfect. Let's let things happen without haste. Stark arrived and wasn't welcomed and then things settled down... It's an interesting development. We have a Surron to trace our routes. It's without fear. The older generations will be bothered but the new ones, not at all."

Eric de Seynes (Yamaha Europe):

“We are all convinced that there is no future for off-road motorcycles without considering electric. Staying only with a combustion engine approach will not be enough to protect our sport in the future. However, there is debate. Is the electrical technology best suited to our products? Battery technology costs an arm and a leg, remains heavy and bulky. But electrics have one virtue, silence. Our practice is much more threatened by noise than by pollution. Electric makes sense on a PW, even a TTR and why not on a competition motorcycle if the prices are contained or subsidized. It would be great if electric vehicles revived light trails as we knew them 30 years ago. A light enduro why not? But today’s enduro is very specialized. I can't imagine an electric WRF at the moment. We are an actor in electric-assist mountain bikes. This allows us to stay in touch with advances in this area. We are partners with the Dutch brand EMX which uses YZ-F chassis equipped with electric motors. But in terms of volume production, we have not announced that we are going there yet."

Philippe Aresten : Electric Motion CEO (french company specialized in electric trials bikes)

Will the future of off-road inevitably be electric?

"No not at all ! And I don't want that.  We are not some sort of sect that would like to impose this future. At Electric Motion, we also all have ICE motorcycles. We're just trying to offer an alternative. Tomorrow's off-road will be 2-stroke with perhaps new standards, 4-stroke with good control of the exhausts, and electric. I hope the automobile will never be “full electric” so let’s not think about it for off-road. You must remain free to make your choices. It is up to manufacturers to propose solutions. Porsche is working on synthetic fuels (Efuel)... In any case, electric power solves the noise problem even if it also has a host of disadvantages. You just need to know what the machine is intended for. “Long distance” off-road must remain ICE. Let’s just accept that some idiots offer this alternative.”

Adriaan Sinke, KTM product manager

"We're interested in what Stark Future is doing. It’s new and there’s a lot of buzz around them. Obviously, it's a start-up and we'll wait to see how they develop. They are ambitious and if their project succeeds, they will certainly develop this market. We are obviously interested because we were the first to manufacture a production electric motorcycle (the Freeride-E) in large numbers in 2014. We learned a lot from this experience. It's a very difficult market. It’s complicated to convert real ICE enthusiasts to electrics. We now have a range of electric mini-motorcycles because it is a market with a lot of potential. It’s easier to convince children and their parents. No fuel, no noise, no kick, low maintenance and an easy-to-ride motorcycle. And for the future, we have a plan!  We have a large team dedicated to electrics, to electric mobility in all its diversity. There are a lot of projects in the air. It’s easy to make a prototype, or even build a few motorcycles. But putting a motorcycle into production that people want to buy is much more complicated. Its price must be correct, as must its performance, its weight, its handling, etc. But above all, it must be profitable, generate profit. Concerning the competition, we are not yet convinced that an electric can fight against ICE in the same conditions. In an honest way. As for the E-Xplorer championship, it's not really an interesting format. It needs to be developed. We are not officially participating but we remain in contact with the FIM on the development of electric competition. Electric obviously has its advantages such as the absence of noise. For the moment, we remain cautious about the viability of this market. But we plan to have electrics in parallel with ICE."

Valentin Guyonnet : FIM E-Xplorer promoteur

“Honda is the first major manufacturer to get officially involved. For us, it is very important since it is the world leader. But I work with all the big brands, the four Japanese, the KTM group, Can-Am, Triumph, Ducati, Hero… etc. At the end of 2023, we had a meeting with the FIM and 24 manufacturers were present at this meeting. The question: “is the industry getting on board with this or not?  " is behind us. They all confirmed to us that they were going. We are now at: “how will they get there, when and by what means?  » Basically, the entire industry is making or will make an electric motorcycle. Why ? Partly because the age of motorcycle buyers is getting older. Electric off-road is a way of attracting young people who above all want to have fun and will not have problems with the absence of noise. Without necessarily ecological considerations but above all to be able to have fun without hindrance. Besides, the Sur-Ron is popular at the moment because it's like a moped, homologated, that you can ride on the road to highschool and allows you to have fun on trails without having too much knowledge of riding since it's so easy. The E-Xplorer World Cup is a laboratory that allows brands to test their prototypes and develop their products. For the moment, we are doing rounds of 8 minutes plus one lap, but the length and difficulty will increase as we progress. We are also here to promote parity, with team results of two male/female riders riding the same motorcycle."

Anton Wass (Stark CEO) confirmed their monthly production over 1000 bikes, still ramping up with a goal stated of 65 000 bikes produced annually (originally stated for the end of 2023, a tad bit ambitious, that would rival Ducati global sales). He says they're getting close from profit and should turn a positive EBITDA on a monthly basis later this year. Well, 1000 monthly sales would represent a steady revenue stream over 10 millions dollars a month, so that can only help. By comparison 1000 bikes was Alta total production.

I'm just gonna leave some obvious facts here. Stark guy kept his bike in the packed down rut the entire way. The KTM kid got way too much air, almost jumped off the course, had to turn, hit the wall to keep it going uphill and by then the race was over. He lost everything on the jump and the small turn after. Let alone the right lane has no packed down rut like the left has.

It doesnt matter what 'the industry thinks'. 

People have to want them.

The EV car bubble has burst , and the manufacturers that matter , are backing out of it before it breaks them. 

Its interesting to know that one the first big companies to produce an EV car was Toyota, and they already know it isnt the future. 

The E-MTB market is big, but that is fuelled by people who are too old and fat to ride a proper bike up a hill. 

The KTM Freeride was a good concept, but it hasnt taken off like it was expected. 

The sport may change, but i dont have to. 

Like so many people in the past, we will just find other stuff to do. 

To be fair, the Freeride came to the US with a pre-shot foot by not having any means of 110v charging.

I think that one of the big problems with electric cars  is they are either super expensive or  a crap car that nobody would want no matter what powered it.  As well as lack of easy charging on the road.   

I don't get the comparison of  saying that Electric car sales are down, so that means nobody wants an electric MX bike.  I've never heard people talk about car sales being related to MX bike sales in any other way before. ICE cars  can  be almost silent to begin with.

The lack of noise is a big reason for some of the people I know who have gotten a Varg or Alta.  They have a place they could ride  , if they had a bike that was not so loud. So they start looking at the Varg.

 Electric MX bikes can solve more  problems that directly and immediately impact  people than Electric Cars do. Noise is not an issue for cars, ICE or Electric, maintanance on cars is already very spread out compared to MX bikes , and more people who ride MX bikes perform that work themselves. Electric MX bikes can be easier for the end user to use, while electric cars, planning trips around charging etc. can be more work for people than their ICE counterparts. 

  And that is why I think that electric MX bikes will have a place.   

The free ride was not a good concept in any way. It wasn’t even a real dirtbike to do anything real on lol.