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If I find myself being comfortable at around 6-8 clicks out on my SSS forks (YZ250), what is the shim adjustment that is needed to bring things back closer to comfort in the middle? One face shim?
It's a gold valve setup but RT is closed today obviously. Feel free to be long winded, I like to learn. Thanks! I can post stack if needed.
Posting anyways. Could be a fruitful discussion. I can post shock too but feel that it is irrelevant.
The fork compression clicker lets you bypass the low speed compression shim stack. If you just want stiffer low speed add a shim or two. Assuming the 0.10x22 shim covers the floating piston try adding one more of those and see what you think. You are not that far off the the recommended 10 clicks though. Those forks only go out to about 16 clicks don't they? If so 8 is right in the middle.
You could also try adding 5cc of oil to each fork outer chamber or maybe the mid valve compression stack needs a shim. It depends what you are trying to do. If you like it with 6-8 clicks I would probably leave it alone. What is it doing at 10 clicks out that you don't like?
Why is 6-8 clicks too many? If it feels good there leave it?
I think I'm currently like 4 out. As things break in I end up going ever stiffer and want to still keep some adjustability.
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At 10-12 out it is a little too active and gets too deep in the stroke too easy. Going in just those few clicks does seem to make a pretty big difference. One thing I have been thinking about also is that by the time I hit the bike, I am closer to 215 pounds (food, water, fluid retention, etc) and I am using a .48 fork spring both sides. I have a line on some .50's. Would you address this first? I also pulled some oil out of the forks too.
I cannot remember the exact oil volume I am running but I would say maybe 325mL. It feels like concrete at 350mL. I am also using the SDi outdoor spring perches (great bottoming and low stroke holdup). When at 350mL, the chop was really noticeable and gave me arm pump much quicker. Feel free to comment extensively on this I have not had time to tinker with oil levels. I went from 350 to 325 with the ambition to add as needed but the 'as needed' never came along
48 springs seem too light at 215. I’m 165 ~185 w gear and I’m on .46.
I tend to agree. The damping is great but the holdup could be a bit better which would be the springs.
I also get this idea because I would consider the hold up being a low speed issue. I might botch this explanation.. If I am hard on the brakes or gentle landings it tends to move alot. I can comfortably OJ stuff or jump into braking bumps without worrying though. To an armchair bike tuner, the fast shaft speeds and compressions seem to be fine.
Race Tech is recommending.49kg spring rate. If you have .48 in there now, buy a single .50 spring and put it in one of the forks to put you at the .49 recommended for you. Different bike, but that’s what I had to do on my Kaw. It has a stock .51kg in one fork and a .53 in the other to achieve the .52 I needed.
I would get the spring rate corrected before messing with the valving. Stiffening the valving can increase the “harshness”.
Race tech in the past was light on spring rates too. Not sure if they still are.
I feel like they are pretty dialed in at this point. I was surprised at how happy I was at the performance of the fork on my last bike.
I would say I am feeling the same with my stock yz250f. I’m running about 10-11 clicks out at 160lbs w/o gear. It’s quite a nice setting but I don’t have much confidence pushing it. It feels like it blows through the stroke and doesn’t hold up. Really kills forward momentum. Yet it seems to eat up the “oh shit” moments.
I am unsure if I address the spring, oil, or valve stack.
I would start with a little oil as it’s the most cost effective and will Increase bottoming resistance and hold up. Stock springs should be fairly close for you. I’d go in this order oil, springs (if needed), then valving.
I would definitely up the spring rate. At 208 lbs I’d be on .50 springs
I will give it a go tomorrow. Cheers!
When would you add fork oil to stiffen forks? Clickers and spring rates are good, but would more oil added be equal to stiffer springs?
Remember that RT Goldvalve flow rate is different than the stock pistons flow rate so shims are different.
IF springs are correct you could add a little more preload to stiffen it up a little.
Preload first part of stroke, ride height
Springs, first and middle part most
Valving, most of the stroke csn be affected.
Oil, most on the last 1/3 of the stroke, but, you will feel it even at the top of the stroke, specially if you are close to sweet spot.
From all the tinkering and research I have done I can testify that these are my exact findings and experiences.
Pit Row
While we are discussing suspension, what part or speed of the travel does the front fork compression clicker affect most? It's on a Showa fork if there is much if any difference.
Oil level gives the forks a more progressive feeling and helps later in the stroke. This is because it reduces the air volume in the outer chamber and causes the compression to ramp up more quickly. However, like aees said, this can have early stroke implications too. If it ramps up too quickly for your desired feeling, it may help with bottoming, but will also ramp up early enough to make the forks feel harsh as they try to move through chatter and braking bumps.
Using modified spring perches can help add adjustability because they provide better bottoming resistance which may allow for less oil. So the end result is a bike with a softer initial stroke due to the reduced oil volume while also having improved bottoming resistance. Suspension is often a trade off but I have not yet found the “bad side” of this approach yet.
Depends how sensitive you are, and where in the spectrum you are.
If you have a perfectly balanced bike, and forks where preload/spring/valving/oil is tuned well, clickers will feel like they are addressing overall stiffness/softness. More from early middle part of stroke to middle.
But if forks are stiff, and you go In a click, you will feel it more like they make the forks ride high in the stroke. Almost similar to adding preload.
If you have lack of oil and are bottoming, you will feel like clickers add more bottoming resistance.
For me, I can't go more that 1 click softer or stiffer from the setting I use, without me feeling like clickers was the wrong way of fixing what was needed. I also feel it gives a to harsch or soft feeling when going more than that.
Only exception I have is, when riding sand I might want to go 2-3 clicks in on rebound in rear to lower the rear and calm it down.
For a quick band aid fix try removing the clamp shim on the base valve .10x18
My approach....proper spring rate first. It's got to hold you up. Then damping to control the travel.
Think of it this way. If you took the springs out.....what clicks and shim stack will "hold it up". None. Get the spring rates correct and balanced, first.
What do you mean by preload on a fork? What are you adjusting?
Preload on the fork spring. It’s an internal adjustment on a lot of forks. Some have external adjustment.
With RT springs they usually give you two 2mm washers/spacers to achieve 4mm of preload on the spring.
This is in a nut shell here, an over view but in general. There are many outliers to this..
Say you had no spring or oil, the clickers should effect the entire stroke. The compression and rebound adjusters are just telling the fork how must resistance for compression and how much fast it should slide back in place. It’s like when you open a hatchback on the trunk of a car, the damper that slows the door from hitting you in the face, it gives it resistance the entire stroke.
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