Tomac MXGP?

Mavetism
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3/21/2024 6:05pm

Except for when he rode US GP in 2017, he went 1-3 for 2nd overall.

I thought he took the overall that day. my memory is seriously F'ed.

Maybe you were thinking of 2016, because he completely dominated the two US GPs that year. That shit was mental. Sad Kenny didn't line up for these events aswell back then. 

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brimx153
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3/21/2024 7:22pm

Unless ducati offers him 50 million for a season.  It ain't happening imo

3/21/2024 7:53pm
Mavetism wrote:
Maybe you were thinking of 2016, because he completely dominated the two US GPs that year. That shit was mental. Sad Kenny didn't line up for...

Maybe you were thinking of 2016, because he completely dominated the two US GPs that year. That shit was mental. Sad Kenny didn't line up for these events aswell back then. 

The Jacksonville usgp was in my opinion a very european style track prep with the wet black sand and he seemed to match Herlings pace more or less. Tomac really impressed me that day so maybe that's why i thought he won it.

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3/21/2024 8:30pm
brimx153 wrote:

Unless ducati offers him 50 million for a season.  It ain't happening imo

That's true Ducati is monster affiliated and they have stupid money. Not unheard of for them to pay road racers close to 10 figures. Would they pony up $50 million for tomac? No, but they could easily get a few million together for him to make it worth his while

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The Shop

3/21/2024 11:41pm
Mavetism wrote:
Maybe you were thinking of 2016, because he completely dominated the two US GPs that year. That shit was mental. Sad Kenny didn't line up for...

Maybe you were thinking of 2016, because he completely dominated the two US GPs that year. That shit was mental. Sad Kenny didn't line up for these events aswell back then. 

The Jacksonville usgp was in my opinion a very european style track prep with the wet black sand and he seemed to match Herlings pace more...

The Jacksonville usgp was in my opinion a very european style track prep with the wet black sand and he seemed to match Herlings pace more or less. Tomac really impressed me that day so maybe that's why i thought he won it.

Definitely not on Herlings pace during the qualifying race, over a minute down on him. The qualifying race was very heavy because of rain, more like a Dutch national. The best sand riders rose to the top that day. 

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Park Boys
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3/22/2024 4:25am
studworx wrote:
And it's crazy to think the "Ghost of RV" with one foot out, won his 2nd event in the GP's ever. I don't subscribe to the...

And it's crazy to think the "Ghost of RV" with one foot out, won his 2nd event in the GP's ever. I don't subscribe to the narrative that he wasn't going to be in the running. But what ifs are dumb, it didn't happen and that's all.

I was rooting for Cairoli heavily that year and it didn't happen for him either.

I think it would be disrespectful for the 2015 MXGP riders to imagine that the "ghost" of RV would have been in the running for the...

I think it would be disrespectful for the 2015 MXGP riders to imagine that the "ghost" of RV would have been in the running for the world title that year... 

The top 4 racers including RV all had injury problems that year. Not that disrespectful to say such. Febvre didn’t start dominating until injuries picked guys off. 

Spoonguy
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3/22/2024 4:26am
brimx153 wrote:

Unless ducati offers him 50 million for a season.  It ain't happening imo

That's true Ducati is monster affiliated and they have stupid money. Not unheard of for them to pay road racers close to 10 figures. Would they...

That's true Ducati is monster affiliated and they have stupid money. Not unheard of for them to pay road racers close to 10 figures. Would they pony up $50 million for tomac? No, but they could easily get a few million together for him to make it worth his while

I thought Marquez's last Honda deal was for 8 figures over three years, let alone Ducati with their fleet of racers. 10 figures I believe is a billion dollars, surely you are exaggerating or using a different money than American dollars? 

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3/22/2024 6:40am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2024 6:42am
Park Boys wrote:
The top 4 racers including RV all had injury problems that year. Not that disrespectful to say such. Febvre didn’t start dominating until injuries picked guys...

The top 4 racers including RV all had injury problems that year. Not that disrespectful to say such. Febvre didn’t start dominating until injuries picked guys off. 

Febvre was a rookie that year in the 450cc category. Once he found his speed, he became unstoppable. Except RV who stopped his season, all the others injured top riders only miss a few races. And got defeated by Febvre at several occasions until the end of the championship. Facts.

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3/22/2024 7:59am
Spoonguy wrote:
I thought Marquez's last Honda deal was for 8 figures over three years, let alone Ducati with their fleet of racers. 10 figures I believe is...

I thought Marquez's last Honda deal was for 8 figures over three years, let alone Ducati with their fleet of racers. 10 figures I believe is a billion dollars, surely you are exaggerating or using a different money than American dollars? 

i misspoke / talking out my ass. point is they could pay tomac something to make it worth his while if he was serious and wanted to race

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teamddr
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3/22/2024 9:44am

Tomac in his prime in MXGP would have been great and podiums plus wins would not have been a problem but he’s way past his prime. Herlings the same in reverse for AMA he isn’t the force he was back in 2017 at Ironman. Time waits in no one especially dirt bike pros where injuries at their age is harder to recover from. I enjoyed watching Tomac in those beast years.

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Park Boys
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3/22/2024 5:05pm
Park Boys wrote:
The top 4 racers including RV all had injury problems that year. Not that disrespectful to say such. Febvre didn’t start dominating until injuries picked guys...

The top 4 racers including RV all had injury problems that year. Not that disrespectful to say such. Febvre didn’t start dominating until injuries picked guys off. 

Febvre was a rookie that year in the 450cc category. Once he found his speed, he became unstoppable. Except RV who stopped his season, all the...

Febvre was a rookie that year in the 450cc category. Once he found his speed, he became unstoppable. Except RV who stopped his season, all the others injured top riders only miss a few races. And got defeated by Febvre at several occasions until the end of the championship. Facts.

Sure but when DeSalle got hurt he was well over 50 points up, When Nagl when out he was nearly 40 points up on Febvre. Febvre did fantastic and outlasted everyone which is the first job you have to do. But the stats don’t lie, when Febvre had his first 1-1 Nagl, DeSalle and RV were out. Again, Febvre was the deserving champ but his “Dominance” was more to do with him staying healthy then dominating the other top riders. 

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3/23/2024 12:17am
Park Boys wrote:
Sure but when DeSalle got hurt he was well over 50 points up, When Nagl when out he was nearly 40 points up on Febvre. Febvre...

Sure but when DeSalle got hurt he was well over 50 points up, When Nagl when out he was nearly 40 points up on Febvre. Febvre did fantastic and outlasted everyone which is the first job you have to do. But the stats don’t lie, when Febvre had his first 1-1 Nagl, DeSalle and RV were out. Again, Febvre was the deserving champ but his “Dominance” was more to do with him staying healthy then dominating the other top riders. 

Stats don't lie ? Dont move, I will be back with more stats about this 2015 MXGP season. 

😉

Bearuno
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3/23/2024 1:51am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2024 2:18am

And here's the determination that got Febvre the World Championship that year:

https://youtu.be/9KFwsWjmWgk

Getting back up, to get a result that got him the overall that day, sure as hell shows a hard man, determined Not to give up.

People rave about Magoo racing with a bent to buggery set of Bars, and, Deservedly so.

Febvre deserves just as much, well, more praise, as the effort helped him win a World Championship.. 

As to Villos loop out, and loop out from the series - well, shit happens, especially when you are pushing so damned hard to keep in front of a bloke that was going to get past you.

Watch the bit of video put up earlier - see Villo cut across to put Desalle into the 'wall'. Well, he'd done that a few times, and I thought that Desalle was going to subject Villo to the same thing, especially if they had gone into the first turn that was coming up just after where Villo looped out. It's a corner just made for "rough justice", and Desalle was always one to hand it out, especially if he deduced you were f**king with him.

As for Tomac going to Lommel - well, that would be Something. It's Not a track that makes things easy for Anyone

Doing the GPs? At the end of his career - well, look to Villo's effort, and result he ended things with. Not the thing to do if you are near over racing, but heck, it perhaps could be a new lease on Moto life for Eli.

But, I really don't think it will Ever happen. He'll be staying in Colorado / wherever else he wants to be, Not battling it out in The World Championships Of Motocross.

PS : I broke my tailbone, in a DH prang  , years ago. Being a Typical Idiot Male, I thought it was nothing, and I should Harden the F**k up, and thus put up with a Lot of pain for a few months until I started to lose feeling in my legs, before I got it checked. It had 'set' outwards like a little puppies tail trying to poke through the skin, so I had to have it removed, entirely. I also did a lot of damage to my lower spine in the prang, that I'm dealing with now, it turned out.

The Doctors / Theatre Nurses showed it to me as I came to after the Op, and I (apparently) said to them "why'd you take one of my bloody fingers Off you silly blighters?" It looked like a skinned / flayed finger, it did. The mongrels wouldn't let me keep it - apparently whatever they take out of you, is No Longer Yours - what a rip off!

parkman
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3/23/2024 4:42am
I think in 2022 this would be true, but not anymore. Also Tomac has never ridden any of those tracks, it would take a year to...

I think in 2022 this would be true, but not anymore. Also Tomac has never ridden any of those tracks, it would take a year to adjust. Look at most GP guys' first year in America. It's usually an adjustment year

Yes there is quite a bit of muscle memory that the euros would have that Eli wouldn't have. But they have a full qualifying day in...

Yes there is quite a bit of muscle memory that the euros would have that Eli wouldn't have. But they have a full qualifying day in MXGP, so that would true that up a bit. 

To your other point, is Tomac really any worse this season than he was in 2022 or is Jett just better? Jett ran down everyone in the quali at mxon last fall handedly. If you compare Tomac to Sexton instead of Jett, he seems to be about the same in 2024 as 2022. These are very subjective comparisons since Jett is involved. 

Jett might be better, but let's not kid ourselves, Eli is 5th in the championship, and with the way he rode last week, he might even finish worse than that. Hardly comparable to his 2022 form.

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3/23/2024 7:22am
parkman wrote:
Jett might be better, but let's not kid ourselves, Eli is 5th in the championship, and with the way he rode last week, he might even...

Jett might be better, but let's not kid ourselves, Eli is 5th in the championship, and with the way he rode last week, he might even finish worse than that. Hardly comparable to his 2022 form.

Maybe he just needs to ride off quietly  into that gentle sunset then . .

3/23/2024 8:23am

Stats don't lie ? Dont move, I will be back with more stats about this 2015 MXGP season. 

😉

mx691 wrote:
I was bored, here is 2015 stats:  https://mxgpresults.com/mxgp/2015/  

I was bored, here is 2015 stats: Smile

https://mxgpresults.com/mxgp/2015/

 

And theres a lot to analyze about it.

3/23/2024 12:42pm
parkman wrote:
Jett might be better, but let's not kid ourselves, Eli is 5th in the championship, and with the way he rode last week, he might even...

Jett might be better, but let's not kid ourselves, Eli is 5th in the championship, and with the way he rode last week, he might even finish worse than that. Hardly comparable to his 2022 form.

Maybe he just needs to ride off quietly  into that gentle sunset then . .

Fastest in practice today. I heard he reads the threads about himself.

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lumpy790
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3/23/2024 2:39pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2024 2:39pm
Yamaha and triumph are both monster affiliated over there? Kawi might even take him back if he wanted to race. Cairoli stayed around until mid 30's...

Yamaha and triumph are both monster affiliated over there? Kawi might even take him back if he wanted to race. Cairoli stayed around until mid 30's and was competitive until the last season. On the contrary, i think MXGP would almost be more suitable for an older rider than AMA. More natural obstacles and arguably less race intensity

Tumic wrote:
All the teams are full of riders, and all the teams have mx2 riders waiting for a GP ride. they will not put those riders aside...

All the teams are full of riders, and all the teams have mx2 riders waiting for a GP ride.

they will not put those riders aside because of a American rider that have passed his prime want to race.

Remember that a Tomac in prime would have a REALLY hard time to brake it in to the top 3 at a full mxgp season.

 

And Cairoli was at his prime in his early 30’s, but Tomac ain’t…

The number of people waiting in a long line for an autograph could certainly sway that way of thinking.

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3/23/2024 2:45pm
Dan541 wrote:
Look at how RV did. No, he wasn't all in, but still, the competition is no joke. Add the fact that Tomac has 3 kids, I...

Look at how RV did. No, he wasn't all in, but still, the competition is no joke. Add the fact that Tomac has 3 kids, I can't see him moving his family to Europe to pursue that championship, way too much hassle.

RV was leading the championship up until his injury. Very very likely he would have won without the crash. Watching clips of Eli riding the last...

RV was leading the championship up until his injury. Very very likely he would have won without the crash. Watching clips of Eli riding the last few rounds and ignoring the Jett, he's actually riding extremely well. 

Yeah its a fair point about his family and the effort to pursue it. But its really more of an extended summer type of thing with a few extra races spring/fall. In my opinion, not that much more of an effort to pursue than SX/MX/SMX combined. If anything, probably less of a stress to do MXGP without considering the relocation to belgium (if that would even be needed). 

Lol. RV was not leading the championship before the crash. He was 20+ points behind 3rd place after just 7 motos and they'd only just got to Europe.

 

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3/23/2024 2:48pm
Yamaha and triumph are both monster affiliated over there? Kawi might even take him back if he wanted to race. Cairoli stayed around until mid 30's...

Yamaha and triumph are both monster affiliated over there? Kawi might even take him back if he wanted to race. Cairoli stayed around until mid 30's and was competitive until the last season. On the contrary, i think MXGP would almost be more suitable for an older rider than AMA. More natural obstacles and arguably less race intensity

Tumic wrote:
All the teams are full of riders, and all the teams have mx2 riders waiting for a GP ride. they will not put those riders aside...

All the teams are full of riders, and all the teams have mx2 riders waiting for a GP ride.

they will not put those riders aside because of a American rider that have passed his prime want to race.

Remember that a Tomac in prime would have a REALLY hard time to brake it in to the top 3 at a full mxgp season.

 

And Cairoli was at his prime in his early 30’s, but Tomac ain’t…

Cairoli was not in his prime early 30s IMO. He was not the same after the MXoN crash at Latvia when he dropped down to the 250 class.

3/23/2024 2:53pm
Cairoli was not in his prime early 30s IMO. He was not the same after the MXoN crash at Latvia when he dropped down to the...

Cairoli was not in his prime early 30s IMO. He was not the same after the MXoN crash at Latvia when he dropped down to the 250 class.

Interesting. Watched him battle Gajser pretty hard in trentino and win some other races pretty late career. Was he dominant? No. Championship contender? Sort of yes

3/23/2024 2:58pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2024 3:00pm
Mavetism wrote:
Maybe you were thinking of 2016, because he completely dominated the two US GPs that year. That shit was mental. Sad Kenny didn't line up for...

Maybe you were thinking of 2016, because he completely dominated the two US GPs that year. That shit was mental. Sad Kenny didn't line up for these events aswell back then. 

The Jacksonville usgp was in my opinion a very european style track prep with the wet black sand and he seemed to match Herlings pace more...

The Jacksonville usgp was in my opinion a very european style track prep with the wet black sand and he seemed to match Herlings pace more or less. Tomac really impressed me that day so maybe that's why i thought he won it.

Not very European IMO. Pretty hot too!

Tomac wasn't in top 20 in practice. Tomac wasn't inside top 10 in timed. Tomac was a minute down in the qualifying race. Tomac was impressive during moto 1, but Cairoli and Herlings started outside the top ten. When they all started up front in moto 2, Cairoli and Herlings went past and he couldn't hang.

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3/23/2024 3:10pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2024 3:19pm
Cairoli was not in his prime early 30s IMO. He was not the same after the MXoN crash at Latvia when he dropped down to the...

Cairoli was not in his prime early 30s IMO. He was not the same after the MXoN crash at Latvia when he dropped down to the 250 class.

Interesting. Watched him battle Gajser pretty hard in trentino and win some other races pretty late career. Was he dominant? No. Championship contender? Sort of yes

It took him a while to get back on track after the crash. He was still competitive (and won the title in 2017) but he was fragile, wasn't grinding at away Lommel as much and favoured Malagrotta, had many off season distractions (which DV also highlighted on Pulp) and Cairoli himself admitted training had changed. Not in his prime during his 30s IMO.

3/23/2024 3:18pm
It took him a while to get back on track after the crash. He was still competitive (and won the title in 2017) but he was fragile...

It took him a while to get back on track after the crash. He was still competitive (and won the title in 2017) but he was fragile, wasn't grinding at away Lommel as much and favoured Malagrotta, had many off season distractions (which DV also highlighted on Pulp) and Cairoli himself admitted training had changed. Not in his prime during his 30s IMO.

What age did cairoli retire? 36? I want to say reed made it to 36-38 but hadn't been "competitive" four at least 4 seasons. Since these two are some of our only real examples of "max age" in mx, what do you reckon that is? Seems to be 31-33. 
 

Came a long way from a decade or two ago when no one really lined up after 27-28. That's just the age most sx lites riders are getting into their prime in the modern day.
 

3/23/2024 3:38pm Edited Date/Time 3/25/2024 4:50pm
It took him a while to get back on track after the crash. He was still competitive (and won the title in 2017) but he was fragile...

It took him a while to get back on track after the crash. He was still competitive (and won the title in 2017) but he was fragile, wasn't grinding at away Lommel as much and favoured Malagrotta, had many off season distractions (which DV also highlighted on Pulp) and Cairoli himself admitted training had changed. Not in his prime during his 30s IMO.

What age did cairoli retire? 36? I want to say reed made it to 36-38 but hadn't been "competitive" four at least 4 seasons. Since these...

What age did cairoli retire? 36? I want to say reed made it to 36-38 but hadn't been "competitive" four at least 4 seasons. Since these two are some of our only real examples of "max age" in mx, what do you reckon that is? Seems to be 31-33. 
 

Came a long way from a decade or two ago when no one really lined up after 27-28. That's just the age most sx lites riders are getting into their prime in the modern day.
 

Depends if you include his bus man's holiday in the Nationals. He retired from MXGP at 36. 

All very subjective. Injuries, kids and life play their part. As you allude though, there's definitely a trend where riders race longer.

It'll be interesting to see how far Jett goes. Rumour has it Herlings retires in 2025, which will make him 31 when the season is done.

3/23/2024 3:53pm
Depends if you include his bus man's holiday in the Nationals. He retired from MXGP at 36.  All very subjective. Injuries, kids and life play their...

Depends if you include his bus man's holiday in the Nationals. He retired from MXGP at 36. 

All very subjective. Injuries, kids and life play their part. As you allude though, there's definitely a trend where riders race longer.

It'll be interesting to see how far Jett goes. Rumour has it Herlings retires in 2025, which will make him 31 when the season is done.

I'm curious about Jett too. McGrath made the point that once you have so many millions in the bank, risking injury for the sake of ego becomes unappealing 

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