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The fines could pay for another AMA official!
One AMA official per rider and one per mechanic.
The intent or spirit of rules mean nothing, if it's not specific it can't be enforced.
Most of the AMA rules are poorly written.
It doesn’t say you must be lined up with a center mark. And to your argument how are you going to prove that a rider isn’t 1 degree out of square with the gate?
It’s all based on an eye test and I think that is better than having insanely strict rules by having painted lines. That’s why I say if this wasn’t caught in the moment then they got away with one. Part of racing is pushing the boundaries in every single aspect.
They got away with one, great! Don’t make yourself look dumb by going “well hypothetically what is ‘center’ of the gate?”
Basic eye test... Is Line A centered on Line B? Or should we start arguing "Actually, we technically don't know what the center of Line B is!" If you were being tested and the question was "Is Line A centered on Line B?" and the answers were 'Yes' or 'No', which would you pick?
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Read my post before posting!
I did.. You said there is no center mark on the gate therefore the rider can line up wherever they want because it's unenforceable. And I'm saying no, they could penalize him for this, just like they could penalize a rider that's sitting at a 45 degree angle on the gate even though there are no distinct angle markings on the grate. And I'm also saying if it wasnt caught in the moment, then they shouldn't go back and apply a penalty.
Zero argument here, brother.
Using the eye test to enforce a rule is subjective, it opens the sport up to claims of favoritism, will the AMA turn a blind eye to Cooper, but enforce the rule for Anderson?
There are no tolerances in the rule for the position of the bike, if a bike is 0.001" off center it is braking the rule, every rider on the starting line would have been off center by at least 0.001", therefore the rule is unenforceable.
So are most rules in every other sport... I'm confused as to what you're advocating for... Zero rules? Laser guided rules? Why can't there be an obvious human element to some rulings in other humans performing sport?
What's wrong with going "They're obviously skirting the rules here" vs. "there should be zero enforcement because the rules are not specific enough and down to a 0.001" clearance?" I feel like I'm getting sucked into a "well actually ☝️🤓" debate so I'm out.
Final statement: No one should be penalized now that we're looking back at it but I think this could equally have been a justified penalty had they caught it in the moment.
"Why can't there be an obvious human element to some rulings in other humans performing sport?"
^^^ this is open to interpretation and potential favoritism.
I'm saying the rule as currently written is unenforceable, because it specifies a position, but no tolerance, rules need to be black and white, not open to interpretation.
This would be easily solved by stating a tolerance, take your pick ±0.001", ±1", ±100" within the center of the gate.
Or the gates could be marked with 2 lines, and the rules changed stating the bike's tires must be between the 2 lines.
Or the starting gate could be changed with grating in the center and flat sheet either side, no rule required, start where every you want, but there will be no traction on the flat sheet.
"...I'm confused as to what you're advocating for..."
I'll give my 2 cents on that (even though I wasn't asked) - more specifics in the rules. I realize you can red-tape stuff to death and make it like govt regulations, but there's a balance between too vague and too cumbersome. Most of the AMA rules currently fall into the former category.
"...So are most rules in every other sport..."
I disagree when it comes to serious motorsports - see my previous example. NASCAR has rules that make the IRS seem like amateurs. They define and specify virtually everything that can be called into question (but there is a lot of money in the sport and they have the resources to craft the rules to make it "professional"). It wouldn't take much to tighten up a lot of the AMA rulebook.
And I know my "angle" example seems silly but is 100% accurate - 90 degrees still meets their definition of "an angle" - even though it's not what they meant, they couldn't argue that it isn't. That's the area where trial lawyers live and make a fortune - splitting hairs and letter of the law stuff. Most of the AMA rules are so vague they would never hold up under under even mild scrutiny.
But hey, I just want to watch good racing, not argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
OP is right (but at the same time I don't care that it wasn't caught). You need to pay attention to the edges of the grates to get an accurate sense of where center is. You can't go off of the missing paint on the gates, which are up in the air (parallax error). These lines should help:
Parallax error for 7 and 18.
Leave it to retards on vital to argue that centered doesn't mean the fuckin middle of the gate lmao. Yall actually ARE this stupid 🤣
Doesn't everyone?
Well I don't mean to brag...
Its actually the same rule that applies in amatuer moto. If theres a rut you need to start in the rut and not just off to the side of it. They started really enforcing this at lorettas 10-12 years ago. Not so much because its an advantage, just annoying as hell for the guy you squish yourself next to. Very good chance of ruining that guys start and it can cause drama on the line if this rule isn't enforced
Pit Row
No one sane cares about this or Jett's incident.
Makes you wonder if Ken was so focused he didn't notice or he was simply ok with it. Now I want to watch a replay of their start tomorrow.
Because Aron and Jett are more on the other side… take a look on front Tyres
Very interesting where you placed the left red stripe in relation to the others
Kenny also placed a few inches more toward Cooper.
In any case, it might help if you look at the front tire and the gate of all three bikes
Thought the same thing. Half the time at our local races our bars are damn near touching ha
The left line is right on the GRATE gap. Added the original picture for easy comparison. If anything I'm off a bit with the far right line. It's a phone edit and my thumbs are fat. I'd update it but not sure how to delete a pic once posted via phone.
The GATES are in the air at an angle, and the camera shot is at an angle. Can't go off the missing paint, parallax error.
Obviously Cooper lined up off center to line up with the rut in front of the gate. He ends up spinning to the right sending him to the left into Plessinger.
^^End thread.
*Anderson
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