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I'd like to get an idea of all the options available on replacing the stock wp air fork. They have really came a long way, and I love the forks on most of the track. But it seems to either under steer or over steer in rutted turns no matter where I move the fork.
I have converted a 4cs fork with kyb ss internals, but that didn't really blow me away. Cone valves are not in the budget. What are some of the other things people are doing?
The bike is a 22 gas gas mc450
Chase Sexton is running Technical Touch's KYB cartridge kit...
https://technicaltouch-shop.com/kyb-cartridge-kit-for-wp-xplor-48-front-fork
The best fork is one that is revalved to suit your riding ability, riding style, track type and track conditions.
You have 3 options. Revalve the AER, 6500 kit ($1500), or tech touch KYB ($1600). I think tuners have a better understanding of the KYB option than the 6500 and there was a big price difference with KYB being around $2k but not so much now.
Don't overlook the possibility that the problem is coming from the rear. Some people don't get along with the KTM linkage rate.
Mx tech makes some good spring conversion options. Blackjack kit is there latest I think.
Getting the Cone Valve forks shouldn't be off the table. You buy them used for around $2200-2500. Run them on your bike until you are done....sell the Cone Valves. The only expense you will have is the difference in Cone Valve price from this year and the year you sell. If you take your forks and modify them for $1800 what are you going to do when you have to sell the bike?
The Shop
Free shipping: VITALMX
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Pull the 6500's back out and put the stock cartridges in and sell the 6500's just like you would with cone valve forks.
Good idea on the linkage. I had the technical touch kit and the front end was doing the same thing in ruts as the stock air setup. No matter what direction I moved the forks in, the bike would either over steer or under steer. Could never get it to work right in ruts.
What link are most people having luck with?
Is the cone valve better than the kyb kit? Because I can build a kyb ss fork setup for under 1k.
I've been told stock kyb is better than any cone valve setup.
It’s all dependent on set up. Neither is better than the other. They can both work very well. The KYB’s I’ve ridden have a lot more movement to them and the cone valve setups I’ve tried have had a more dead feel. If you can do kyb for under a grand it’s a no brained to go that route.
There are way more options than that. Luckies, Ravens, Blackjacks, Del Soggio, Lanier, Ohlins, etc. You can also do KYB for way less than $1600 now as well.
I’d be interested in hearing some unbiased review of the MX Tech Blackjack inserts
Have a look at these, works out to be $425 US + shipping.
https://krooztune.com/collections/ktm-sxf-sx-1/products/air-to-spring-f…
Luckies are open cartridge so not really meant for MX. Raven/Blackjack require a special tool to service the cartridge. If you do your own maintenance this is additional expense that is not necessary for WP/KYB.
If you have a source for KYB conversions for less than Technical Touch please post it. I am sure a lot of people will be interested.
Lots of folks were running Lucky Carbons for MX though they are now discontinued. Regardless of if you need tools to service on your own or not there are more options than you listed.
https://ride-engineering.com/KYB-Spring-Conversion-Kit-for-WP-XACT-Fork…
https://ride-engineering.com/new-wp-aer-lug-conversion-kit-for-kyb-fork…
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/salebazaar/ktm-gasgas-husqvarna-spring-f…
That's the way to do it if slightly mechanically inclined.....
That is very interesting! I get nervous with stuff I've never heard of, especially at that price point though. Seems almost to good to be true.
I don't know. The Cone Valves are not so amazing that they should be the only choice. They are decent but i think the forks on my 2024 YZ450F are better stock than revalved cone valves. I think it's all about track conditions, bike, rider experience, and comfort vs performance. so many variables that it's hard to say which is better
I wouldn't necessarily say I have a source...kyb internals fit right into 4cs forks with very minimal machining on the wp lug.
I got a set of 4cs a few years ago for a couple hundred, and a set of kyb from a bike being parted out for 300.
I think that's a single-side spring conversion and that is the rough price range for most single-side conversions.
Pit Row
I agree with this statement. I like the style of valving on the contemporary Yamahas.
Actually, on the KTM 450 chassis, I have found that the valving on the 2019+ YZ250F valving works even better than the 450F valving.
The important thing is that in 2018 Yamaha introduced a 25mm cartridge in the YZ450F. Up through 2017, all the production KYB cartridges were 24mm. In 2019 Yamaha updated the YZ250F to that larger 25mm cartridge as well.
All KYB production stuff that's relevant has a 12.5mm cartridge rod.
I'm not aware of which cartridge size comes with each conversion kit out there since that information is never advertised.
Which KYB cartridge are they giving you with that kit? 24mm or 25mm? Do you have a choice?
The older cone valves were 23mm mid valves with 12mm cartridge rods and I don't think they're competitive with the older 24mm KYB production stuff. They must be super profitable since it takes substantially less labor to assemble a cone valve than it does to stack shims.
I haven't worked on the latest XACT Pro components, 6500 kits and Cone Valve forks yet. I'd love to know if WP has improved the internal design over the older 23mm stuff.
Showa uses 25mm mid valves on their most recent stuff with 14mm cartridge rods.
I believe the current Showa A-kit hybrid stuff (which I've ridden but never worked on) uses a 27mm mid valve and a 14mm cartridge rod.
Bigger isn't always better. I think the right shims and oil are the most important thing if you have a decent system.
A good tuner is super important if you dislike the standard valving or if you're very picky.
The lowest cost KYB conversion out there is probably Ride Eng... I think they're $150 ?
My kits are in the middle at $250
Tech Touch has a complete kit and I think retail is $1700 - ish (with cartridges).
Each of those have their pros and cons.
I'm betting on the ease of install for the average guy without special tools and flexibility to choose your own cartridges (24mm or 25mm) to make my stuff successful.
I run the ride engineering performance link. Getting the rear revalved and sprung for you weight and ability is the most important part. The AER on the 22+ bikes works really well if the back end is setup, I’d say they are right up there with my cone valves. The performance link drops the rear 5mm, but helps with swap going into a rough braking bump section. I run my sag at 103mm.
As for the wanting to climb out of ruts issue, ride engineering also has the Honda showa steering damper setup. That damper revalved (there is an how to with pics on thumper talk) and running 15w40 diesel oil fixed that problem for me.
Actually come to thinking about it, I think I have an extra link that I could sell you if you wanted. I also have the pro circuit link and knuckle. I liked it, you could feel the suspension get stiffer on the face of a jump if it was long enough. You need to go up a few spring rates to make it work tho.
I’ve been running cone valves recently and also playing with setup on them. I have them feeling pretty good (definitely not as good as they could be by a professional).
I picked up some 6500s setup by REP earlier this week and will get to try them out Saturday. I did a test ride in the desert and I have a feeling the cone valves will be up for sale, although I would really like to send them to REP to get a better comparison
Yes the Ride Engineering is $150. If you scroll up you will see that I provided a link to their kit and also to yours.
I run an ohlins Air/Spring hybrid fork on all of my KTM's. It replaces the stock dampening cartridge with an ohlins insert and keeps the stock air leg. It works amazing, best of both worlds. Feel and plushness of a spring fork and tunability, weight, and bottoming resistance of an air fork. Coppersmith racing makes a kit for I beleive around $1200.
I've never tried the hybrid setups personally since I'm 99% motocross, but one of my customers did a hybrid with a 2021 YZ450F cartridge and spring in his 300 two stroke. He says a hybrid is the best setup for the GNCC type stuff he rides.
I have the hybrid setup on both MX and offroad. I have a ktm 125sx and 250sx for mx and 250xc and 300xc for offroad. Work awesome for both. To me it’s on par with KYB or WP kit forks.
I appreciate that, I'll research it a little more then send you a pm. My setup is completely revealed and I really like it except in rutted corners.
I can't imagine I'd like the link though. I run 100mm of sag. I really didn't like how the bike felt at 105 and 103.
I have considered a different shock though. My suspension guy says there are allot of better options than the wp.
Try 110mm?
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