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Not to debate the better rider look at the difference in track conditions between the 2 tests.
Not sure if the glowing reviews have anything to do with them but it's something to keep in mind.
My normal day is generally something like this:
20min Moto (approx 35% battery left)
Charge for 40min (approx 90% battery)
20min Moto (approx 30% battery left)
Charge for 40min (approx 80% battery left)
15min Moto (approx 15-20% battery left)
Those are just rough averages that can vary depending on conditions and track layout, but that’s about what I’m getting. There are some days when I’d like to get a longer final Moto in but get limited by the battery, and that’s just something that’s a fact of life with e-bikes right now. At the same time though I have buddies who can basically ride all day without charging, so draw is very speed dependent.
I’m not sure exactly how many hours I have on the bike now but I’d guess probably 10-15, not a ton but enough to get a general sense for how things are likely to hold up in the future and so far the bike still feels like brand new. Hell I’ve only adjusted the chain once
Guess who tell you they 'tell it like it is' and that they are 'the gold standard' ---
They do, at the beginning of every damn test write up.
They go on and on and on about why they are the best, either be the best or don't, the more you say it the more it seems like absolute bullshit, which it probably is... But gullible people do fall for it.
I’m slower than JM, Vet C. My typical day is:
arrive fully charged
25 min moto
20 min charge
25 min moto
20 min charge
each cycle I lose about 10 pct, so can run that cycle and get tired before I run out of battery. This was before the update from about a week ago. Supposed to add 14 percent range and it charges 20 percent faster according to my generator display. It was also slightly cold, which looses some battery range.
IMHO, everyone except for pros and super fit fast kids will get tired before bike runs out of battery.
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I have serious doubts about a 14% range increase, is that confirmed or just internet rumor?
Thanks for the first-hand accounts of life with a Varg, JM and Mike
JM,
I believe that’s what Anton said in a video. I may be confusing it with posts I read responding to Anton’s video. They are saying the voltage was increased, which makes sense if they used real world testing of a bunch of bikes and realized they can handle a little higher voltage. Most cells charge to 4.2 or 4.3V per cell. So if they increase the top voltage 7 pct and low voltage 7 percent, there is the range increase. Tesla was able to squeeze out some range via software update by improving their controller signals slightly. Maybe this as well.
tesla also is changing charge rates/etc on the Cybertruck 46800 cells because they are so new. Better safe than sorry when it comes to batteries for mass market vehicles.
Show us on the doll where Jody hurt you.....
You have a Jody doll?
That explains A LOT.
JW,
So I watched Stark CEO interview here: https://youtu.be/3AW_ik9YtPA?si=4p8CNncpOBhXMeuS
Range increase was confirmed to be voltage and slightly controller related.
The main tracks aren't open in Idaho yet due to weather, but check out my new riding pattern with 14% range (not confirmed with Stark, just some people on forums) and 20% charge speed increase (confirmed on my generator, when from 3.0kW to 3.6kW):
Before software update:
Battery : 100%
Ride 25 mins
Charge 20 mins
Battery : 90%
Ride 25 mins
Charge 20 mins
Battery : 80% and so on...
You can only do this for about 5-6 cycles, as you start hitting power taper at 20% battery. Still, 5 cycles is 125 mins of moto with 100 mins of rest. Most pros don't ride that hard.
After software update (adds 14% range and charges 20% faster)
Battery : 100%
Ride 28.5 mins
Charge 16 mins
Battery : 90%
Ride 28.5 mins
Charge 16 mins
Battery : 80%
This cycle is even better, with 142 mins of riding and 80 mins of rest. I will challenge any non-pro above age 30 to ride this duration at intensity. I will even buy a plane ticket to Idaho so I can film the "human battery" vs "Stark battery" shootout. I won't pay for some random trail guy to ride around at 40% pace for four hours straight, so please don't sign up if you are that guy...
Sign me up. I need room and board to .
If this 14% range increase through an update is actually true
Would it have a negative affect on battery life/degradation ?
Or is that too awkward a question to ask
I am glad to see owners are getting range that is adequate for their riding, I just hope they have the same range in 18 months time, considering the price of a battery
We have a spare room at the house and I'll happily buy you a burrito at the gas station on the way to the track. The burrito will help with the world class athletic performance you will be putting on.
DJR - I have not been able to test the range increase because the main tracks are still closed in Idaho. I'm quoting what other people have been saying on forums.
I've been riding after the software update, but it's been on random turn tracks where I don't have great comparision from before the software update. The main tracks are closed around here due to weather.
Also, it's quite cold here, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison even if the tracks were open. I need to compare on the same track with weather at least in 60s or so to create an apples to apples comparison.
Yes, theoretically using more voltage in the battery will shorten the life slightly. Stark (just like Tesla) performs real world testing to determine if the incease in range is worth the decrease in battery life. My guess is it only decreased battery life by a few percent.
Remember, the Stark batteries are projected to go between 500-750 charge cycles. If you get 45 mins of ride time on a full battery that is 375 - 562 hours. I think the entire bike will need replaced at those hours. I've never had a gas bike last those many hours when practicing/racing motocross. There are certainly guys that have 500 hours trail riding on a gas bike, which the Stark will easily do, IMHO.
Anything over 300 is a win for Stark. I am more interested in how the battery will hold up to lower hours and more years. That is the life of many dirt bikes.
Hmm, that’s interesting, sounds like the range increase is significant. I knew that Stark was conservative on their charge cycle so I’m not surprised that they were able to increase the speed significantly, but the range is surprising to me. I would have to imagine they’ve done their homework to make sure it won’t adversely effect the battery over time but it seems crazy to me that they’re were so conservative with their voltages beforehand that they can get almost 15% more out of it just with a software update.
I’m curious to try mine out now, I’ll have to confirm I have the latest update though. Thanks for the info!
300hours my YZ450f has 10 pistons/ chains, 5 rods, 20 clutch sets, 60L oil, bearings and couple gear boxes. Stark should have some oil and coolant in same time.
Pit Row
You can use a socket with them…
10 pistons in 300 hours? You must use twin-air.
Or maybe follow the service intervals in the manual ? I think that is where a lot of people get confused. Real world maintenance VS what people are supposed to to do according to the maker of the bike.
When You compare the 2 the Varg clearly needs way less to keep going.
The unknown is if the Varg will run into reliability issues more often than a Gas bike or not ,while both are serviced to the book.
Yah You can sometimes get away with doing almost nothing to a gas bike for a longtime. Depending on where and how You ride. Right now we do not really know how much You can neglect a Varg .
If the manufacturer recommended service intervals are followed with both bikes( A Varg and a modern gas MX bike). The Varg needs much less done to it over a similar timeframe when doing everything by the book.
In a few years we will know for sure if it is a truly accurate comparison or if the Varg ends up needing more than the book says to keep going. I think that Stark has a very good idea of how the bike will last. Except for some of the wacky real world things that nobody would think of testing.
Long term storage with low battery charge may be an issue, the batteries self discharge at a rate of 0.35%-2.5% per month, if you're going to park it over winter, charge it first.
I put on 5 square an hour and Darren is an OG Canadian concrete guy. Let us ride it.
Sandusky/Darren - As a former framer, I can respect hard construction work. I can say, however, that working at a lowish heart-rate for 8 hours a day doesn't exactly translate to performing at 180 heart-rate for 140 mins with 80 mins of rest.
It's kind of like saying "because I can climb Everest I should be able to win a Crossfit competion". Both require a form of extreme physical fitness, but they are in entirely different time and intensity domains.
Or an ultra runner that performs 100k races is a great runner, however, they wouldn't even be competitive in a 100 meter or 400 meter race.
I'm down to buy one plane ticket, so you and Darren will have to fight it out...
Tek14 - I think many of the Vitards don't realize how much maintainence is required on bikes that used for practicing/racing moto at a decent intensity vs slow trail riding.
Many years ago I mostly trail rode with a buddy that had a quad. I could literally clean my air filter when it got dirty and motor oil twice a season. I never changed a clutch one single time in 100s of hours. My chains/sprockets would last years.
Because I was riding around at 2,000-5,000 RPM on trails that had a few small bumps/rocks.
That is literally what you should NOT do. It is widely known that storage of a lithium battery is optimal at 40%...which is why it is stated in the manual to store the bike at 30-50%
I'm not fighting that guy.
How many posts in the tech help section of vitalmx's forum are from posters who didn't follow the manual!
First piston/pin broke 40h and manual tells to put new one 12,5h. Im not going to do +40h anymore so yes 30h new piston. I used to ride KTM before 90h with same piston. Stark would make sense for me money wise as riding alot but havent got one yet.
Another 2 hours on my Stark over the weekend. Up to 4 now.
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