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Did you have to stiffen up the shock with the linkage? I went quite a bit stiffer on low speed compression with mine
If you're dropping that much coin to help the bike, maybe that's a sign that they've missed the mark.
The KTM is already significantly more expensive than the Japanese bikes. It should come...dare I say...ready to race.
So did the linkage help with the rear end stiffness? Im considering this linkage too. Overall the bike has a stiffer feel compared to a KX or YZ and its not a huge deal to me but the rear end is a bit too much on accelerating chop at the end of the day. Doesn't go away no matter what I do.
I noticed the same thing. Ive been riding my 23 TX300 in the woods for the last few months getting it dialed in. Feels pretty good I thought. Rode my 23 300xcw (old chassis) recently and was shocked at how much more forgiving the old chassis was. Huge increase in comfort! Bummed to hear the new xcw has lost comfort as well, as it has the new cutouts in the shock tower frame supports. Definitely keeping the older model!
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I had a 97 CR250 and thought it was great…you
guys don’t even know what stiff is….
Well I had my suspension done by REP as well but not sure if they adjusted it for the linkage. I was told you don’t have to mess with revalving or clickers with the REP linkage.
It definitely does make the top part of the stroke softer. I only have a couple hours on it so it’s hard to say how much better it is on chop (haven’t played with settings/sag much yet).
one thing I’ll say, I always felt like it was tough to accelerate hard out of flat sweeping corners, whether hard packed or soft and it hasn’t felt like an issue since putting it on, I’m able to just hold the throttle on and don’t worry about the back end stepping out
Unfortunately there isn’t a whole lot you can do about the acceleration stiffness. The design of the suspension kinematics (anti-squat- countershaft to swingarm pivot location) makes the shock stiffen under acceleration. When the track is soft this is a great characteristic, the bike is so balenced under load, but when it gets square edge bump coming of ruts, it’s not good a feeling.
I’ve only heard good things about the REP Link/Knuckle. It doesn’t fix the root of the problem, but I’d imagine it’s better than stock.
My 350 gearing was 14/52, but on the 450 it could help is you went to 14/53, might help with the chain binding on acceleration.
All the bikes have their issues because inversely the Yamaha 450 has a lot of squat under acceleration which feels nice on those squared edge, but it forces you to run a very stiff shock which could feel worse in other places on the track. Everything has been a give and take while trying different bikes.
just to make conversation, everyone complains about the stiff frame and anti squat, but the trade off is it rewards you with precise handling. I mean I can hit shit faster and it goes right through it. No kicks sideways, no pucker, nothing. Isn't that more important? It is to me. I can go faster, feel safer. I'll take that anyday over feeling plushness. If I want to just cruise around I can get an enduro bike.
I think it's a give and take. Depends on the rider, style, speed, track and what the rider wants out of their bike, ya know. I'm not saying the Austrian set up is terrible, just in some areas, in some situations it's not the best for me. I try to show the light on both sides of my opinions. Just like you wrote, in some areas it rewards you, with sacrifice for "plushness" or comfort.
I spent a day on the old chassis today. Still a fan of the new one. Maybe I’m just crazy. I ride mostly moto but not always.
Dirt looks good there!
You are fast and push the bike hard. So I can imagine how the 23-24 could feel better at that level.
Everyone says the Honda is stiff but it actual has the softest look 450 frame. Sometimes perception isn’t reality.
Joe you are the first to mention countershaft sprocket offset to swing arm pivot… was there a change from last to current gen frame? If yes would you expect the next gen to move again back closer to last gen?
Id rather have a chassis were its absorbing the shock better and I can stiffen/dial in the suspension to get precision etc rather than the other way and never getting a comfortable setting to my liking no matter what I do.
On the TX I had to go softer on valving settings compared to other bikes, spring or air and the new chassis still feels a little edgy in the woods.
Let me start off by saying, I'm not an engineer, just a hobbyist. So anyone who really knows, feel free to chime in..
I was under the impression and belief that the countershaft to pivot changed based on feel and rumors. A second reason why I believed that, is because 23-24 chain needs extra slack as the chain gets tight at bottom out. This wasn't the case on 2019, this means the axle path has changed.
I did estimated basic lines for anti-squat values and they are so dam close between 19, 21 and 24. I threw in 24 Yamaha, which does look more different. But a few MM can be a world of a difference! Where the 3 lines meet is the bikes Instant Center. Where the red and blue cross is the anti squat value. The angle of the long blue line can also calculate the AS and these are all within 2 degrees.
These are also at free sag, so when the rider is on the bike it's different and the AS changes as the bike goes through its travel. So much to unpack here!
Here's some other factors we can throw in mix:
-Raise rear ride height or the entire motorcycle to increase swingarm angle
-Change gearing so that the chain angle is steeper or the top chain run is lower
-Raise the swingarm pivot to increase swingarm angle and chain angle
https://www.datamc.org/data-acquisition/suspension-data-analysis/anti-squat-geometry/
Yeah Joe it was good! But fucking cold!
Exactly. Its not the initial "stiff" or "soft" its how far it flexes and that rebound is what gives people an issue. Everything is just a piece of metal and at the end of the day, it all flexes. Getting all of those pieces (engine, frame, clamps, forks, swingarm, wheels, etc) to work in unison and controlling or anticipating the spring back is what we all focus on to control.
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Interesting info. Thanks for sharimg
Update: I'm on an XCW 300 so no linkage. Decided to do a complete rebuild on forks as I saw a little oil seeping past one seal. Prognosis: one bad fork seal and one bad inner chamber seal as well as the locktite had come loose on inner chamber piston and rotated. I think this totally changes dampening. Anyway back up and running and forks feel stiff but much better when pushing the issue. Rear feels more planted. Played with high speed dampening as well as traction control (at 22 in) I'm on WP Pro components and increased sag to 110. seems to help. Switched from NEKIN to MAKO 360 and see Zero difference, matter of fact I like NEKIN better but they leak down.
Riders who start to mess with linkage ratios and re valves before putting 12 to 15 hours on the 2023/2024 four stroke motocross bike might regret the changes you make later.
just sayin….
Not sure if this thread is still alive, but I'd agree that the rear and overall feel of the bike is stiffer, but I think its a more precise feel. I go back and forth between a 22 and 23. The 23 seems to let me lean over more on accel in flat bumpy corners without getting that surprise swap or rear end kick. I attribute that to the anti squat. I can also throw the thing around hooked corners and not feel like the frame recoils and throws me. That 22 frame would absorb all the little chatter better especially when you aren't leaning but any time I load the frame with pressure it seemed to recoil back and that was usually partnered with a quick view of a side number plate or two. Dropping a 6500 kit valved by Mark at REP was also a great move for front end traction and plushing out sharp hits on the 2023. I dig these bikes after you drops some springs in, but I hate buying the most expensive bike just to turn around and spend the most on suspension as well. Sadly I don't believe the 24.5 will be coming with what it really needs changed. Might be taking a peak at blu cru which is unfortunate because the Austrians have treated me so well.
According to the new factory KTM shoot I see almost all there guys on the “old” frame. Everts,Adamo Even at the husqy side like Hampshire,Mookie.. Prado,barcia are on the old framed the Gasgas.. I see there running the new engine mounts with the hole in it but not the frame. So would considered it an upgrade? If it’s really an upgrade everyone would pick it I guess?
My thought is if the new frame isnt too soft for Chase and Aaron in Supercross, it won't be for us in moto
The US side said they went through a lot of time riding and testing on the old frame and didn't want to make a big change right before the season. It's hard to go off GP guys because they can alter the bikes so much it really isn't comparable to the bikes we ride in my opinion.
When will the 2025 KTM Models unveiled? When are they in dealers? Thanks all.
Going off recent years, I'd say around May.
Thank you Mr. Lindsay.
If you are looking at a 2025 this summer, the '24 Factory edition isn't that much more expensive considering what it comes with. Once you start seeing deals on 2025s at the end of the year and into next year is where that price gap really starts to widen.
Yes. I wouldn't be asking the question if they made a 300SX FE
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