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Bradshaw made his premier class debut in San Diego 89.
Then won a1 90.
I'm confused, which way do I vote?
A side note.
So in theory, Hunter could also win in his 450 debut next week!
well done Jetson...but Ando and Coop both looked alot better than last season , just need Eli to find his groove and its on!
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I’m not sure about that, be he looked gassed those final few laps. He was going backwards.
Yes, his 2013 season in karts, where differences in equipment are similar to SX, proves this. He raced in the premier category against the pros, smashed them. He raced against his peers, smashed them too.
There were a few hiccups, but yes, Max when given conditions similar to Jett, produces similar levels of results.
Karts
There's no differentiation in driver talent really between the best karters in the world (many of which are professionals) and the people that make it to F1. Aridgo, Lammers, Fore, De Conto, Abbasse etc.... who Max raced with in 2013 are/were ridiculously good.
Look for yourself - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr-uwIj2TUI - Beumi and Piquet Jnr were further back than Schumacher. This is motorsport's dirty little secret, high level talent can be found in every corner (the industry suppresses to keep up appearances). BTW I think Schumacher did really well still. i was there, you can spot me in the middle of the track
This isn't like dirt biking. almost the entire SX main could got to a club MX race and be minutes down the road. Most of the F1 grid would struggle to top 5 in the UK at a decently competitive club kart event. 4-wheel racing works very differently than 2-wheel.
But that's a long way of saying Max, when given similar competitive conditions as Jett, is really that good.
There is no way you can spin it that Max having a great year in a kart at 15 can be compared to Jett going 22-0 in the premier motocross class in the world and then winning his first ever 450sx race. Would anyone even think to compare AC's supermini days as an amateur to Jett now? The entire SX main would definitely smoke the 'fast guy' at the local track.
As for MOST F1 guys would struggle at any given competitive UK Kart meeting - I mean I'm clearly not as much of a kart guy as you but I've never heard a take like this in my life. Is this a troll mate?
Edit: Also to say there's no difference in driver talent is a bit mental to me mate. A shit F1 car is a completely different animal to the best kart in the world
Great race by Jett. Impressive as always!
Also, great race JA21 and CW2. I’m fairly confident JA21 was holding CW2 up. CW2 really impressed being on a 100% new and different bike than he was previously and running that pace. Let the mind games begin from Coop!
Was such a fun race and the two guys kept Jett honest.
It is not a troll, I am 100% serious. i've seen it with my own eyes.
Schumacher would race his local track (Kerpen) now and again and get beat by locals/national drivers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1WYGwnt7x0 . Schumacher in 2001 World Kart Champs raced and was pretty much solidly mid-grid for most of the weekend (again at his local track and he was very prepared for it). It rained and he was fast, but in the dry he was so-so. I have HUGE respect for MIchael because he is pretty much the only F1 guy who would race karts without ego.
Here's a world champ karter pretty much catching Daniel Ricciardo with ease - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NssZmBWppC0&pp=ygURa3JlbWVycyByaWNjaWFy…
I've seen F1 guys at my local track and the occasional one is much further off the pace than you would imagine. Nigel Mansell would race 177s at his track he owns and compete on pretty much even terms with the locals (i.e plumnbers etc...)
Jack Doohan taced my local clubby a few years ago in KZ - https://www.apex-timing.com/goracing/results.php?path=/hkrc/2021/141121… he finished outside top 10. he was actually fast, but again, the point isn't that F1 drivers (or on F1-radar ) aren't fast, it's that motorsport isn't what people think it is.
What you have in F1 is specialization to an exclusive set of individuals who've played the game very well. Many excellent drivers, but in terms of raw driving skill, motorsport is very upside down. Put them in a scenario where a bigger group of individuals can specialise (i.e karts) then you see that most of them aren't quite as remarkable as you would assume. Again, they are very good, but we're trying to understand Max Vs Jett. Given similar situation, Max is very much like Jett.
Max is truly a freak of nature. I've raced Hamilton, I've been on track with Max.. I am 100% not trolling.
Finished up watching the mains this morning.
Hampshire ??
Seriously dude, why are you still rolling around with the kids ??
Great rides by,
Jett, Jason, and Webb.
Gutted by his late race endo.
Best part about the evening, friese with OUT next to his name at the bottom of the run down.
Eight seconds is honest?
Despite diffy trying to hype the race, once again it was obvious that Jett was controlling his pace.
Now whether he kicked up the pace, or Jason eased up after Webb went down,
I guess the lap times will tell.
Would have been interesting to see if Webb could have closed the gap had he gotten around Jason.
Thanks for your earnest engagement with me here. I did enjoy the videos, hard not to go down a rabbit hole with the suggestions. Karting and F1 are obviously not the same accessibility wise and definitely not in terms of driving style, discrete entities. You've shown that performance does't always transfer stage by stage. With an indefinite amount of testing time could those locals hang with Michael over 70 laps around Monaco?
Your point about 'raw driving skill' intrigued me, suggesting that karting may be the purest representation of it? Correct me if I'm wrong. I just don't think this is something we can do in motorsports - every vehicle, every engine class harbours distinct demands. Personally on four 4 wheels rally drivers impress me the most, I'd say they have the most difficult job. But there's no concrete proof of this. Michael Schumacher giving it a go in his prime and not doing great certainly wouldn't be any sort of proof either.
I guess though that your wider point is about the versatility of Max which is ridiculous. I've even heard he's the top sim racer on e-tracks
Back to the Jett thing - I acknowledge that the pinnacles are not directly comparable but Jett to me exhibits a more significant gap over his peers in his field. Lest we forget that ANYONE can get themselves a 450 and try to make a main or a national. At 19 going on 20, navigating his 3rd season in F1, Max was outclassed by Daniel Ricciardo in the same car. At 19 going on 20, in his first half year of being on a big bike, everything Jett Lawrence touched turned to gold.
It's hard to explain without going down the rabbit hole, but this thread has served its main purpose so I can go off the end a bit. So we have the 'ladder to F1' that goes something like karting - F4/F3/F2/F1. That's the 'goal' of the FIA. But it's not that simple for a myriad of reasons, not least because karting isn't a homogeneous lump and you have various championships like Indycar, Super Formula etc... There's no clean ascent.
The thing that sends it all a bit sideways is karting is both the 'stepping stone' for a lot of drivers, but it is also its own fully fledged motorsport with European and World Championships with Professional drivers. So it's a mix of both 'future F1' stars and actual professional karters. It's a symbiotic relationship that over time is causing issues. It's not an easy relationship bvecause karting is seen as the bottom of the ladder, but dig deeper and you have guys in there racing at the highest levels of skill. To make it comparable imagine all MotoGP riders started in MX until they were around 14/15 and went to road racing. But you still had guys continue in MX similar to what you see now. This is an over simplification but it gives an idea. The current World KZ champion is older than Max Verstappen.
The thing about F1 is its highly specialised. So of course if you threw a top karter in an F1 car they'd be slow because you need a fair amount of testing a preparation in single-seaters. This preparation costs literally millions. The running costs of a kart on a test day are around £100 as long as you don't crash/blow up anything. Equipment does matter more in karts than SX, but its as close to dirtbikes in a 4-wheel form as you'll get. Engine tech is pretty much the same... TM are in karts.
So in 2013 Max wasn't just racing his peers, he was racing the professionals, specifically in the KZ class (again it does get overly complex). Think of KZ like you think of 250 or 450. It's the same kind of set up. Multiple makes, lots of top drivers, and relatively close performance. So we do have data of what Max can do given a similar kind of set up, and he dominates. No other driver in F1 did what Max did in karts, even Lewis Hamilton.
But the broader point is that yes motorsport is weird. I like it because of that to some extent.
This is a dirt bike forum ,nobody cares on your Max Verstapen adoration,just put him on the Williams car and see what he can do,(altough,ir won't never hapen)
Pit Row
🤦♂️
Other people (dirt bikers) made a comparison to Max Verstappen for Jett, others said you can't compare, I highlighted that if you understand motorsport and how it functions you can identify where there is a comparison (his 2013 season). By the way Max won his kart title on... TMs. A brand a LOT of dirt bikers will be familiar with. So a comparison can be made, and comparisons will be made because some are concerned about dominance of riders/drivers. I am less concerned about that because I like watching the very best do what they do.
Another good comparison to back up your kart/f1 point of view is the transition that super sport racers have to make when going into super bikes, there is a long list of next best thing talent that this transition has claimed
1+1 doesn’t always make 2
and let’s not forget the real big factor, mental game
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