Stark wins British Arenacross!

JM485
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1/8/2024 1:21pm
I know I have said it 100 times..  I am all for the OPTION of electric racing bikes, have at it - when Husky makes one...

I know I have said it 100 times..  I am all for the OPTION of electric racing bikes, have at it - when Husky makes one, I will buy one too.  What I can't stand, folks starting threads like this, trying to draw ICE and electric in parallel, like they are the same, and in the end declaring some sort of victory, like they get a big trophy and a million dollars personally.  They are NOT the same, one has the ability of 35% more freaking HP!  That is like bringing a 350z and a Bugatti to the track, and feeling like you are king of the hill when the Bugatti wins.  Seriously...

When the big OEMs start making them, things will get a lot more real.  Until then, these one-offs are just that..  And anybody who acts like any victory for a Stark over an ICE bike is a major award, well no shit, they are easier to ride and make a shitload more HP.  "Winning"!!  Dry

There are HP limits designated in each class.

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Beagle
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1/8/2024 2:31pm

Nice vlog by Tommy Searle who unfortunately got a bad race day. Great atmosphere at AXUK.

You can see Jack Brunell first ever race start on a Varg at 10:52 Laughing

Little glimpse of the main event at 17:55

 

 

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MxAddic
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1/8/2024 2:31pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2024 2:34pm
I know I have said it 100 times..  I am all for the OPTION of electric racing bikes, have at it - when Husky makes one...

I know I have said it 100 times..  I am all for the OPTION of electric racing bikes, have at it - when Husky makes one, I will buy one too.  What I can't stand, folks starting threads like this, trying to draw ICE and electric in parallel, like they are the same, and in the end declaring some sort of victory, like they get a big trophy and a million dollars personally.  They are NOT the same, one has the ability of 35% more freaking HP!  That is like bringing a 350z and a Bugatti to the track, and feeling like you are king of the hill when the Bugatti wins.  Seriously...

When the big OEMs start making them, things will get a lot more real.  Until then, these one-offs are just that..  And anybody who acts like any victory for a Stark over an ICE bike is a major award, well no shit, they are easier to ride and make a shitload more HP.  "Winning"!!  Dry

JM485 wrote:

There are HP limits designated in each class.

History has shown trying to hard limit HP is bad bizzness for racing. That is the very reason it's a displacement limit instead. I am sure you could imagine how great the racing would be if everybody made exactly the same HP, ect, ect, ect.

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Beagle
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1/8/2024 3:01pm
RACING wrote:
"That being said, the sooner the AMA allows Stark to race in SX, the sooner we'll really know what he Varg is worth against the best...

"That being said, the sooner the AMA allows Stark to race in SX, the sooner we'll really know what he Varg is worth against the best, and..."

...that's not going to happen anytime soon.

https://youtu.be/ulNzo1YypII?si=SAgJLNqrU025RFD-&t=319

"It's the future, it's great, but no, thanks."

Laughing

Did you really listen to this Dave Porter interview? What he says about electric racing is very promising indeed.

 

"I think electric is the future, I don't think there's any denying that, I'm excited about it, I think it's gonna open up motorcycling to a whole new generation.

I can live in a suburb, buy an electric motorcycle and ride it out, ride it down the street without upsetting my neighbors. I think it's gonna be huge.

I don't necessarily think it's a good idea, until maybe some time in the future, to mix the combustion engines and the electric motorcycles, but I think there's definitely something, and we're constantly talking to the OEMs about what we can do, there's definitely something that will happen, I would say in the future, in the near future, around electric and supercross.

Again I don't believe they'd be on the same track as a gas powered motorcycle but as a part of the event in some way, shape or form, supercross, motocross and SMX in general, I think it's just a matter of time."

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The Shop

RACING
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1/8/2024 3:06pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2024 3:08pm

Who the f*** is Dave Porter? 

Laughing

Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever been in any sort of business...

Maybe if he's nice, he'll get a nice intermission demo like the KTM kids?

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3
1/8/2024 4:33pm
RACING wrote:
Who the f*** is Dave Porter?  Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever...

Who the f*** is Dave Porter? 

Laughing

Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever been in any sort of business...

Maybe if he's nice, he'll get a nice intermission demo like the KTM kids?

Dave Prater, VP of SX...

 

 

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JM485
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1/8/2024 5:28pm
I know I have said it 100 times..  I am all for the OPTION of electric racing bikes, have at it - when Husky makes one...

I know I have said it 100 times..  I am all for the OPTION of electric racing bikes, have at it - when Husky makes one, I will buy one too.  What I can't stand, folks starting threads like this, trying to draw ICE and electric in parallel, like they are the same, and in the end declaring some sort of victory, like they get a big trophy and a million dollars personally.  They are NOT the same, one has the ability of 35% more freaking HP!  That is like bringing a 350z and a Bugatti to the track, and feeling like you are king of the hill when the Bugatti wins.  Seriously...

When the big OEMs start making them, things will get a lot more real.  Until then, these one-offs are just that..  And anybody who acts like any victory for a Stark over an ICE bike is a major award, well no shit, they are easier to ride and make a shitload more HP.  "Winning"!!  Dry

JM485 wrote:

There are HP limits designated in each class.

MxAddic wrote:
History has shown trying to hard limit HP is bad bizzness for racing. That is the very reason it's a displacement limit instead. I am sure...

History has shown trying to hard limit HP is bad bizzness for racing. That is the very reason it's a displacement limit instead. I am sure you could imagine how great the racing would be if everybody made exactly the same HP, ect, ect, ect.

No, there's a displacement limit because it's all but impossible to accurately and repeatably build a gas engine to a given output limit, so it's much more convenient to limit displacement which can be easily measured and verified.  Electric doesn't have this problem because the output of the controller, battery, and motor are much more consistent than a gas motor, so limiting based on output makes more sense for them.  They also aren't effected by ambient condition variables like gas motors so the power limit set will remain consistent.  

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MxAddic
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1/8/2024 5:36pm
JM485 wrote:
No, there's a displacement limit because it's all but impossible to accurately and repeatably build a gas engine to a given output limit, so it's much...

No, there's a displacement limit because it's all but impossible to accurately and repeatably build a gas engine to a given output limit, so it's much more convenient to limit displacement which can be easily measured and verified.  Electric doesn't have this problem because the output of the controller, battery, and motor are much more consistent than a gas motor, so limiting based on output makes more sense for them.  They also aren't effected by ambient condition variables like gas motors so the power limit set will remain consistent.  

You talk out of both sides of your mouth...

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MxAddic
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1/8/2024 5:42pm
RACING wrote:
Who the f*** is Dave Porter?  Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever...

Who the f*** is Dave Porter? 

Laughing

Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever been in any sort of business...

Maybe if he's nice, he'll get a nice intermission demo like the KTM kids?

Dave Prater, VP of SX...    

Dave Prater, VP of SX...

 

 

Carpet Bagger..

Glad to see JT gargle his shaft.

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1
1/8/2024 5:55pm

Are we not gonna talk about the fact that Justin bogle can’t even win the British arenacross? (No offense to the other riders) 

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RACING
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1/8/2024 6:16pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2024 6:20pm
RACING wrote:
Who the f*** is Dave Porter?  Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever...

Who the f*** is Dave Porter? 

Laughing

Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever been in any sort of business...

Maybe if he's nice, he'll get a nice intermission demo like the KTM kids?

Dave Prater, VP of SX...    

Dave Prater, VP of SX...

 

 

Thanks so much for explaining me who's the guy Beagle doesn't know after Beagle explained me the Prater itw I posted.

Laughing

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1
1/8/2024 6:23pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2024 6:24pm
RACING wrote:
Who the f*** is Dave Porter?  Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever...

Who the f*** is Dave Porter? 

Laughing

Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever been in any sort of business...

Maybe if he's nice, he'll get a nice intermission demo like the KTM kids?

Dave Prater, VP of SX...    

Dave Prater, VP of SX...

 

 

RACING wrote:
Thanks so much for explaining me who's the guy Beagle doesn't know after Beagle explained me the Prater itw I posted.

Thanks so much for explaining me who's the guy Beagle doesn't know after Beagle explained me the Prater itw I posted.

Laughing

LOL, you of all people should understand Porter is Prater with a French accent!

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BJR74
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1/8/2024 6:24pm

Combustion bikes racing with electric, not sure if that's ok Wink

7eleven
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1/8/2024 6:27pm

IMG 4434I let 4 different riders try my Varg last weekend. 1 of the 4 said without a doubt, he would buy one. I said cool, go ride it again, because it keeps getting better. 
I’m at 8.4 hrs on the bike, I haven’t even tightened my chain yet. 

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-MAVERICK-
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1/8/2024 6:37pm
Dave Prater, VP of SX...    

Dave Prater, VP of SX...

 

 

RACING wrote:
Thanks so much for explaining me who's the guy Beagle doesn't know after Beagle explained me the Prater itw I posted.

Thanks so much for explaining me who's the guy Beagle doesn't know after Beagle explained me the Prater itw I posted.

Laughing

LOL, you of all people should understand Porter is Prater with a French accent!

He knows who Prater is, you missed the sarcasm. 

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1/8/2024 6:54pm
RACING wrote:
Thanks so much for explaining me who's the guy Beagle doesn't know after Beagle explained me the Prater itw I posted.

Thanks so much for explaining me who's the guy Beagle doesn't know after Beagle explained me the Prater itw I posted.

Laughing

LOL, you of all people should understand Porter is Prater with a French accent!

-MAVERICK- wrote:

He knows who Prater is, you missed the sarcasm. 

I got the sarcasm, I was poking fun at him supposedly being French.

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LungButter
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1/8/2024 7:10pm
MxAddic wrote:

Carpet Bagger..

Glad to see JT gargle his shaft.

Why not just go away if you don’t give a rats ass?

Talk about “talking out of both sides of your mouth”….

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JM485
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1/8/2024 7:39pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2024 7:41pm
MxAddic wrote:

You talk out of both sides of your mouth...

How in any way am I talking out of both sides of my mouth, what are you missing here?

 

Gas: Difficult to measure output consistently due to ambient condition changes, component wear, etc.  Hence, we have CC limits because that's easy to implement and consistent.

 

Electric: Easy to measure output and consistent across any foreseeable ambient conditions.  Hence, it makes sense to limit output because it's easy and consistent.

 

What is confusing about that?  It's two means aiming towards the same end, it's just a little easier with electric and we can skip some intermediary steps.

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jock
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1/8/2024 10:18pm
RACING wrote:

Wooooooah, I'm soooooooo impressed.

British Arenacross... Amaaaaaaaaaazing. 

 

msp332 wrote:

Haha where else is Stark allowed to race?

Australia, in all comps, including the National Championships.

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Beagle
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1/9/2024 12:31am Edited Date/Time 1/9/2024 12:34am
RACING wrote:
Who the f*** is Dave Porter?  Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever...

Who the f*** is Dave Porter? 

Laughing

Man, if you don't get that the guy's not willing to move an inch in Anton's direction, you've never ever been in any sort of business...

Maybe if he's nice, he'll get a nice intermission demo like the KTM kids?

Dave Prater, VP of SX...    

Dave Prater, VP of SX...

 

 

RACING wrote:
Thanks so much for explaining me who's the guy Beagle doesn't know after Beagle explained me the Prater itw I posted.

Thanks so much for explaining me who's the guy Beagle doesn't know after Beagle explained me the Prater itw I posted.

Laughing

Dear Racing,

I found the interview you posted so interesting that I wanted to write down the big guy's words. That's not an explanation, that's called transcribing.

I'm not exactly surprised we don't understand it the same way, just thought it was well worth reading. It does sound great to me to hear him say that electrics are coming, maybe in a separate class or event, in the near future in AMA.

Now about D-Dog, Dave Porter is the guy who wrote the score for Breaking Bad, f-ing autocorrect Silly

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RACING
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1/9/2024 4:59am Edited Date/Time 1/9/2024 5:01am

"I don't believe they'd be on the same track as a gas powered motorcycle"

Wether you listen to it or read it, that's rather clear; isn't it?

And Anton repeatedly made it just as clear that's absolutely not what he wants. He always said his goal is going against ICE bikes and prove the Stark is "the best motocross bike in the world"... He's not interested in a "Stark Trophy"... 

So, while he wanted to shake the top level racing world "as soon as 2023", he has to pretend he's extatic about having an old sod scoring a win in UK county fair cross... 

Laughing

 

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Alan Dove
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1/9/2024 5:43am Edited Date/Time 1/9/2024 5:43am
Beagle wrote:
Did you really listen to this Dave Porter interview? What he says about electric racing is very promising indeed.   "I think electric is the future...

Did you really listen to this Dave Porter interview? What he says about electric racing is very promising indeed.

 

"I think electric is the future, I don't think there's any denying that, I'm excited about it, I think it's gonna open up motorcycling to a whole new generation.

I can live in a suburb, buy an electric motorcycle and ride it out, ride it down the street without upsetting my neighbors. I think it's gonna be huge.

I don't necessarily think it's a good idea, until maybe some time in the future, to mix the combustion engines and the electric motorcycles, but I think there's definitely something, and we're constantly talking to the OEMs about what we can do, there's definitely something that will happen, I would say in the future, in the near future, around electric and supercross.

Again I don't believe they'd be on the same track as a gas powered motorcycle but as a part of the event in some way, shape or form, supercross, motocross and SMX in general, I think it's just a matter of time."

No one is 'excited' for electric bar a few early adopters. People are resigned to it rather than excited. I can assure you many promoters are very fearful about the future of spectator motorsport. 

Also "Bike built to no set of regulations beats bikes built to tight regulations" isn't a big racing story.

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early
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1/9/2024 5:59am
Alan Dove wrote:
No one is 'excited' for electric bar a few early adopters. People are resigned to it rather than excited. I can assure you many promoters are...

No one is 'excited' for electric bar a few early adopters. People are resigned to it rather than excited. I can assure you many promoters are very fearful about the future of spectator motorsport. 

Also "Bike built to no set of regulations beats bikes built to tight regulations" isn't a big racing story.

A "toy" and "scam" bike beating "real" bikes is the story here.

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Silas444
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1/9/2024 6:13am Edited Date/Time 1/9/2024 6:49am
RACING wrote:
"I don't believe they'd be on the same track as a gas powered motorcycle" Wether you listen to it or read it, that's rather clear; isn't...

"I don't believe they'd be on the same track as a gas powered motorcycle"

Wether you listen to it or read it, that's rather clear; isn't it?

And Anton repeatedly made it just as clear that's absolutely not what he wants. He always said his goal is going against ICE bikes and prove the Stark is "the best motocross bike in the world"... He's not interested in a "Stark Trophy"... 

So, while he wanted to shake the top level racing world "as soon as 2023", he has to pretend he's extatic about having an old sod scoring a win in UK county fair cross... 

Laughing

 

It's not "extatic," it's "ecstatic." If you're going to belittle someone's accomplishments, try not to foul the effort by misspelling a word so pivotal to your attempt, as it will cast a pall over it.

I wonder how long it takes for someone to notice they've cast themselves in the role of becoming a pimple on the lovely face of the future? Does it only happen in retrospect, or can they intervene and change their path during? And will all the time they wasted by becoming a pimple begin to seem tragic, or was becoming a pimple the aspiration they had in mind all along? 

Ah well, enough about that. Congratulations to Stark for having created something out of thin air so quickly that can not merely compete on a professional level with the OEMs ICE offerings, but win against them. It's mind-blowing stuff that would have seemed ridiculous and absurd only a few short years ago. 

I can certainly think of one guy who didn't see it coming. Pit Beier, I'm talking' to YOU! Grinning

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1/9/2024 6:17am
RACING wrote:
"I don't believe they'd be on the same track as a gas powered motorcycle" Wether you listen to it or read it, that's rather clear; isn't...

"I don't believe they'd be on the same track as a gas powered motorcycle"

Wether you listen to it or read it, that's rather clear; isn't it?

And Anton repeatedly made it just as clear that's absolutely not what he wants. He always said his goal is going against ICE bikes and prove the Stark is "the best motocross bike in the world"... He's not interested in a "Stark Trophy"... 

So, while he wanted to shake the top level racing world "as soon as 2023", he has to pretend he's extatic about having an old sod scoring a win in UK county fair cross... 

Laughing

 

Silas444 wrote:
It's not "extatic," it's "ecstatic." If you're going to belittle someone's accomplishments, try not to foul the effort by misspelling a word so pivotal to your...

It's not "extatic," it's "ecstatic." If you're going to belittle someone's accomplishments, try not to foul the effort by misspelling a word so pivotal to your attempt, as it will cast a pall over it.

I wonder how long it takes for someone to notice they've cast themselves in the role of becoming a pimple on the lovely face of the future? Does it only happen in retrospect, or can they intervene and change their path during? And will all the time they wasted by becoming a pimple begin to seem tragic, or was becoming a pimple the aspiration they had in mind all along? 

Ah well, enough about that. Congratulations to Stark for having created something out of thin air so quickly that can not merely compete on a professional level with the OEMs ICE offerings, but win against them. It's mind-blowing stuff that would have seemed ridiculous and absurd only a few short years ago. 

I can certainly think of one guy who didn't see it coming. Pit Beier, I'm talking' to YOU! Grinning

Pit Beier still doesn't see it!

KTM has the most to lose, dirt bikes are a small part of other OEMs business, not KTM!

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RACING
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1/9/2024 6:23am
RACING wrote:
"I don't believe they'd be on the same track as a gas powered motorcycle" Wether you listen to it or read it, that's rather clear; isn't...

"I don't believe they'd be on the same track as a gas powered motorcycle"

Wether you listen to it or read it, that's rather clear; isn't it?

And Anton repeatedly made it just as clear that's absolutely not what he wants. He always said his goal is going against ICE bikes and prove the Stark is "the best motocross bike in the world"... He's not interested in a "Stark Trophy"... 

So, while he wanted to shake the top level racing world "as soon as 2023", he has to pretend he's extatic about having an old sod scoring a win in UK county fair cross... 

Laughing

 

Silas444 wrote:
It's not "extatic," it's "ecstatic." If you're going to belittle someone's accomplishments, try not to foul the effort by misspelling a word so pivotal to your...

It's not "extatic," it's "ecstatic." If you're going to belittle someone's accomplishments, try not to foul the effort by misspelling a word so pivotal to your attempt, as it will cast a pall over it.

I wonder how long it takes for someone to notice they've cast themselves in the role of becoming a pimple on the lovely face of the future? Does it only happen in retrospect, or can they intervene and change their path during? And will all the time they wasted by becoming a pimple begin to seem tragic, or was becoming a pimple the aspiration they had in mind all along? 

Ah well, enough about that. Congratulations to Stark for having created something out of thin air so quickly that can not merely compete on a professional level with the OEMs ICE offerings, but win against them. It's mind-blowing stuff that would have seemed ridiculous and absurd only a few short years ago. 

I can certainly think of one guy who didn't see it coming. Pit Beier, I'm talking' to YOU! Grinning

Sooooooorry; it changes everything.

Still, I'd be willing to bet my english is far better than your french, my friend.

I'd even dare to say it's far better than many Vitard's, lol...

Wink

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Silas444
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1/9/2024 6:35am Edited Date/Time 1/9/2024 6:37am

Pit Beier still doesn't see it!

KTM has the most to lose, dirt bikes are a small part of other OEMs business, not KTM!

And when you consider the fact that the market they truly dominate is the Enduro/Cross-Country segment, it's easy to suss why they've felt the need to try to force a ban on the Varg in those types of competitions. They cannot afford to have it win. My guess is the next thing they'll try to ban is battery-exchanging in GNCC races. For obvious reasons.

As Bob Marley once sang so prophetically, "Every time I plant a seed, he say kill it before it grow, he say kill it before they grow."  

 

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MxAddic
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1/9/2024 7:07am
Silas444 wrote:
And when you consider the fact that the market they truly dominate is the Enduro/Cross-Country segment, it's easy to suss why they've felt the need to...

And when you consider the fact that the market they truly dominate is the Enduro/Cross-Country segment, it's easy to suss why they've felt the need to try to force a ban on the Varg in those types of competitions. They cannot afford to have it win. My guess is the next thing they'll try to ban is battery-exchanging in GNCC races. For obvious reasons.

As Bob Marley once sang so prophetically, "Every time I plant a seed, he say kill it before it grow, he say kill it before they grow."  

 

I would say it's more akin to Invasion of the Body Snatchers than Marley but what do I know.

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Alan Dove
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1/9/2024 7:34am
early wrote:

A "toy" and "scam" bike beating "real" bikes is the story here.

It didn't 'beat them'. They don't race to the same regulations. It wasn't built to a set of defined technical regulations. It wouldn't be hard for any manufacturer to build a dirt bike bike that's smash their current 250/450 line up.

I don't really know about the 'toy' or 'scam' stuff, but the notion this was a race is nonsense. If I was a competitor I'd be furious that the rules allow for a bike like that. It'd be no different what power it used. I'd be the same if they say you could 2 or 4 cylinder engines.

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