First Pro race with stark varg

Cygrace74 wrote:

What’s the ETA on the first batch? 2024?

Cliffy615 wrote:

I don’t think all (or at least majority) electric in 5 years is unrealistic, 4 strokes properly came in 2004ish and by 2007 2 major manufacturers...

I don’t think all (or at least majority) electric in 5 years is unrealistic,

4 strokes properly came in 2004ish and by 2007 2 major manufacturers stopped the production of 2 strokes all together. 

that was just 3 years, and things move much quicker now with the heavier use of social media.

You’ll always have the die hard petrol heads who will keep the gas bikes but with the UK being small and densely populated I’m not surprised we’re one of the first to approve these bike into competition because since the introduction of 4 strokes tracks close weekly because of noise.

It may have been wishful thinking to think we may see a varg at hawkstone, I’m exited to see them as I think it’ll elevate the sport. I don’t care about noise I ride downhill and never once got to the bottom and thought bloody hell that was fun but I wish it was louder. It’s not a factor and will soon be forgotten.

Bikes sound amazing in isolation, a factory 250f on the limiter is a dream, but on a race or practice day after 7 hours of 40 bikes at a time is exhausting and a drone to be perfectly honest.

I believe Steven Clarke has ordered 2 Vargs and I think he’ll be pretty high up the delivery list having been on of the riders that went to the media day in Spain, so I don’t think it’ll be long before we se them at a pro level and with the lap time improvements they were seeing on the media day (I think Dylan woodcock was 6 seconds per lap faster than he was on a 450, after just a few laps of ever getting on a varg) and the no (or little) maintenance factor they are a no brainier moving forward

BobPA wrote:

6 seconds per lap faster, hahahahahahaha. C'mon man. You think switching from a 450 to a Stark would make Mason Kerr as fast as Chase Sexton...

6 seconds per lap faster, hahahahahahaha. C'mon man. You think switching from a 450 to a Stark would make Mason Kerr as fast as Chase Sexton? Hint: they were 6 seconds apart in qualifying this weekend. 

 

Zero offense to Mason, he just happened to be 6 seconds off Chase is all. 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

Its not impossible for that to happen depending on the track. I love the idea of electric so it might blind me in some areas.  I...

Its not impossible for that to happen depending on the track. I love the idea of electric so it might blind me in some areas.  I would bet that Stark found a track that would allow the Varg to perform at its best. And have the biggest gains over a gas bike and or  have other reasons the electric was better at the certain location they picked.  They had said that the track they were at was closed because of sound. So maybe it was just that. But I also suspect that they picked a place that also gave some advantage to the Varg.  

 

I think it is too early to really say for sure that electric will be as transformative as  a long travel single shock bike VS an older twin shock bike with 4 inches of travel. But I suspect that those 2 bikes would have large changes in lap times like Stark claims for the Electric V gas.   I bet the biggest changes in laptimes with an Electric would come in the lower skill levels. Riders that can ride in the correct gear, and RPM all of the time will not have as much of an impact on lap times.  If Electric is as good as people say , it would not surprise me if there was a big reduction in lap times.  

 

Stark has said many times that they want to build the best motocross bike .  And that it will be electric. But the performance level is  the goal. Be better than every current bike.   Who knows if their first try will be the bike they are striving to build. I am looking forward to seeing how the bike works out in the real world.  On a track that has you shifting gears often , I bet it would knock a lot of time off of a lap. There was a video of a CRF250 drag racing an Alta and every shift the CRF made , the Alta pulled a bike  half to full bike length. Maybe I'm just being optimistic in my memory. But it was a dramatic and noticeable amount of time that the electric was pulling on the CRF.   

 

There is a local Pro that runs NESC and J-Day races that shows up to races with wholeshot awards and goes out and rips the starts and he rides an old Alta that has been abused and ridden for years now.  He can not get a full moto out of it so he doesn't finish very well.  This was a couple years ago the last I heard of him doing it. I think his Alta is the earlier model that was not as fast as the second version.

Another local pro raced the faster version and he did about the same as he did on his regular race bike. But he only had a day before the race to try and setup the bike. So it was all stock . With maybe sag set and some clickers. He had an oval with a small jump that he did a few laps on.  The Alta battery was not up to doing all of the motos at full power and there was barley enough time between moto's to get it charged from what I remember.  But he finished right around the same spot as he normally would have on his race bike that had suspension dialed in for him and many hours of time riding that same brand and model. So to jump on and finish in a similar spot on a bike that  was 100% stock  shows the potential to me. He might have DNFed his second moto because of lack of battery. And in the race he finished I know he turned the power level down for the last couple laps to conserve power. 

 

 If the Varg fixes the runtime issue that Alta had, then I could see it being a big advantage. And worst case the Varg is a sick playbike for people with just enough land for  track, but not enough space between them and neighbors. If the first real Electric dirtbike was that close to being a legit replacement for a gas powered bike, then I could see the second attempt being even closer.  But I still think we are in the early YZ400 days of Epower. Or maybe its still the modified XR days. Like back when they raced XR400's in the 4 stroke MX nationals.  The very early days of the modern 4 strokes.

 

As far as sound goes, I can see sound being a part of why people like to ride. But I feel like its crazy to say that riding would no longer be any fun without the noise.  I loved being out in the woods on my MTB and the silence . I rode a few races with 100's or 1000's of racers all on the track at 1 time. It was a 7 or so mile loop I think. I never passed so many people on a dirtbike track. And if everybody waso n Electric , You can hear somebody behind you. Tires, brakes, breathing .  For the people who say sound is everything, Do you get the same joy/rush from weed wacking  or cutting firewood with a 2 stroke chainsaw?  Or just revving it up ?   I am seriously wondering , if it is all about the sound shouldn't a similar sound provide the same feeling?   

The real Sasquatch wrote:

Its not impossible for that to happen depending on the track. I love the idea of electric so it might blind me in some areas.  I...

Its not impossible for that to happen depending on the track. I love the idea of electric so it might blind me in some areas.  I would bet that Stark found a track that would allow the Varg to perform at its best. And have the biggest gains over a gas bike and or  have other reasons the electric was better at the certain location they picked.  They had said that the track they were at was closed because of sound. So maybe it was just that. But I also suspect that they picked a place that also gave some advantage to the Varg.  

 

I think it is too early to really say for sure that electric will be as transformative as  a long travel single shock bike VS an older twin shock bike with 4 inches of travel. But I suspect that those 2 bikes would have large changes in lap times like Stark claims for the Electric V gas.   I bet the biggest changes in laptimes with an Electric would come in the lower skill levels. Riders that can ride in the correct gear, and RPM all of the time will not have as much of an impact on lap times.  If Electric is as good as people say , it would not surprise me if there was a big reduction in lap times.  

 

Stark has said many times that they want to build the best motocross bike .  And that it will be electric. But the performance level is  the goal. Be better than every current bike.   Who knows if their first try will be the bike they are striving to build. I am looking forward to seeing how the bike works out in the real world.  On a track that has you shifting gears often , I bet it would knock a lot of time off of a lap. There was a video of a CRF250 drag racing an Alta and every shift the CRF made , the Alta pulled a bike  half to full bike length. Maybe I'm just being optimistic in my memory. But it was a dramatic and noticeable amount of time that the electric was pulling on the CRF.   

 

There is a local Pro that runs NESC and J-Day races that shows up to races with wholeshot awards and goes out and rips the starts and he rides an old Alta that has been abused and ridden for years now.  He can not get a full moto out of it so he doesn't finish very well.  This was a couple years ago the last I heard of him doing it. I think his Alta is the earlier model that was not as fast as the second version.

Another local pro raced the faster version and he did about the same as he did on his regular race bike. But he only had a day before the race to try and setup the bike. So it was all stock . With maybe sag set and some clickers. He had an oval with a small jump that he did a few laps on.  The Alta battery was not up to doing all of the motos at full power and there was barley enough time between moto's to get it charged from what I remember.  But he finished right around the same spot as he normally would have on his race bike that had suspension dialed in for him and many hours of time riding that same brand and model. So to jump on and finish in a similar spot on a bike that  was 100% stock  shows the potential to me. He might have DNFed his second moto because of lack of battery. And in the race he finished I know he turned the power level down for the last couple laps to conserve power. 

 

 If the Varg fixes the runtime issue that Alta had, then I could see it being a big advantage. And worst case the Varg is a sick playbike for people with just enough land for  track, but not enough space between them and neighbors. If the first real Electric dirtbike was that close to being a legit replacement for a gas powered bike, then I could see the second attempt being even closer.  But I still think we are in the early YZ400 days of Epower. Or maybe its still the modified XR days. Like back when they raced XR400's in the 4 stroke MX nationals.  The very early days of the modern 4 strokes.

 

As far as sound goes, I can see sound being a part of why people like to ride. But I feel like its crazy to say that riding would no longer be any fun without the noise.  I loved being out in the woods on my MTB and the silence . I rode a few races with 100's or 1000's of racers all on the track at 1 time. It was a 7 or so mile loop I think. I never passed so many people on a dirtbike track. And if everybody waso n Electric , You can hear somebody behind you. Tires, brakes, breathing .  For the people who say sound is everything, Do you get the same joy/rush from weed wacking  or cutting firewood with a 2 stroke chainsaw?  Or just revving it up ?   I am seriously wondering , if it is all about the sound shouldn't a similar sound provide the same feeling?   

BobPA wrote:

95% of the people who ride a 125 (adults) do it for the sound. Why else would we struggle to go fast on a slow machine...

95% of the people who ride a 125 (adults) do it for the sound. Why else would we struggle to go fast on a slow machine? They are a hoot to ride, and sound great doing it. Do you think a "small bore" electric bike will be as appealing as a 125? They (small bore electric) will not have a big weight advantage like their ICE counterparts, they will not have the rotating weight advantage of their ICE counterparts, they will not sound cooler than a more powerful electric bike. They will just be a slow, soulless electric turd.

 

BTW I also welcome the electric change, it just is not ready yet. 

mx313 wrote:

The same guys crying the stark is a POS and would never own one. Are the same guys crying they need to regulate the power output...

The same guys crying the stark is a POS and would never own one. Are the same guys crying they need to regulate the power output.

So is it crap and not needed or 2 fast??

Bearuno wrote:

From MXGeoffs site, MX Large  - one that a fair few here might not go to if I put up a link : *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** British motocross...

From MXGeoffs site, MX Large  - one that a fair few here might not go to if I put up a link :

***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

British motocross championship promoter Gareth Hockey spoke to us last week and while we got the first part of the interview out early last week, a busy end of the week and weekend meant we didn’t get part two our until now. So here it is, more information on this Stark Varg bike racing in the UK in 2023 and some ideas Hockey has for when it does arrive.

MXlarge: How do you see the future of the sport in the UK?

Hockey: For me, I am probably looking five years in advance. I can see us in five years’ time being all electric. I think that might change the game for the sport. Why can’t we be in the middle of Birmingham or the middle of London. If we can take our sport to places like that, it opens our World right up.

MXlarge: There was that video from Sebastien Tortelli about the ACU allowing Stark to race in the UK in 2023. It wasn’t full of too much information, so what is the situation with that bike for the major British races, will we see a Stark in the British motocross championship?

Hockey: Not this year. We have looked at it and spoken with the other manufacturers. Last year I tried to push to have Sebastien Tortelli over for the last round of the British championship as a wild-card rider on the Stark Varg bike. A lot of technical issues didn’t work, but to be fair to Stark, they have answered all those question to the ACU and the rules and regulations are now just about in place. That is for us to integrate the Varg Stark bikes into the British championship in 2024. If I can find the way to get one (Stark Varg bike) into a British championship round this year, just as a demonstration type of thing, we would do it. Stephen Clarke has two ordered and expects to have them very soon and he would be a good rider to have racing one. Of course, I also have to work with every other manufacturer on this.

MXlarge: Depending how good this Stark bike is, because it seems like everyone says it is amazing, so I can imagine the other brands saying this isn’t a bike of equal capacity of whatever. How will that work?

Hockey: Having spoken to the Starg Varg guys, they have everything to be able to map the bike to a 250’s power and they are open to share that with the organizations. I have had guys who have ridden the bike and as you said, it is awesome. We know the Japanese and the Austrians are chasing it and they won’t be far behind.

MXlarge: So then its maybe a job to find a rider who isn’t racing for somebody else and can ride the bike as a wild card?

Hockey: Stephen Clarke has two ordered and expects to have them very soon and he would be a good rider to have racing one. Of course, I also have to work with every other manufacturer on this. If we are going to do it in 2023, I would want somebody like Seb to come in, somebody who is a draw. I think they have to get the bike out the door to be honest and maybe run it first in some small events in the UK.

MXLarge: The transition from what we have now to electric is obviously going to be a pretty drastic change and a lot bigger than changing from 4-strokes to 2-strokes like we had in the past. How long do you personally think that transition can happen?

Hockey: We will be led by Japan and Austria, but I think maybe in five years. Stark sort of surprised everyone with this really competitive bike. I assume 2024 we will see a lot more in the market and I think 2026 or 2027 it will be all electric. We all love the noise, but for our sport to survive, we have to go that way.

MXlarge: You mentioned if we do end up there, and obviously we will, are you thinking running the motocross in stadiums, like maybe Birmingham or something like that?

Hockey: No, I am thinking more outdoor spaces and I know places near Cardiff which are suitable for an outdoor circuit. We can find spaces in the London area. I think the stadium thing is more Matts thing, but you take away the noise and nobody complains about motocross.

From, as I said, MX Large . 

***************************************************************************************************************************************

That should get some  people squealing - really, I do think Hockey is kidding himself with the time frame he suggests for it to be All Electric.

In earlier news, they set 48HP for an E Bike to be in among 250s, 60(?) HP for 450s. With controls that 'lock' the Horsepower - no 'upping' it during the event. How they'd do that, I can't say - as I so often write, I can't keep my Blinkers going for long on my Vibrationary CRE, as I'm an Electronic Idiot ........... But, I'm sure it can be done.

Richy wrote:

As far as not letting people change the power after scrutineering / inspection, I guess they'd follow most racing where ECU changes are prohibited. Either you'd...

As far as not letting people change the power after scrutineering / inspection, I guess they'd follow most racing where ECU changes are prohibited.

Either you'd have to remove the "map" switch and replace that little portion of wiring with a pre-set and non-adjustable version / module or you'd simply seal off the map changing facility with a skinny little plastic piece to make it inaccessible and then lockwire and tag it, like has been done with ECUs, turbos, throttle body / intake (restrictor plate access) in other motorsports.

I agree 5 years for "all electric" sounds absolutely mental, and contradictory to KTM's latest talk on the matter.

inthebadboycorner wrote:

I have to ask, some of the talk is that the lack of noise will keep the tracks open. I have watched many electric bike videos...

I have to ask, some of the talk is that the lack of noise will keep the tracks open.

I have watched many electric bike videos, the motor scream and suspension clunking doesn't seam much quieter to me?

I can't imagine 20 electric bikes in a stadium, or 40 bikes outdoors would be much quieter?

Rappstar932 wrote:

I have owned my Stark for about 6 months and love the bike.  It's a great alternative bike to have. The Dealership I work for has...

I have owned my Stark for about 6 months and love the bike. 

It's a great alternative bike to have. The Dealership I work for has 47 of them sold and the second batch coming in any day.

Our local Pro Alex Martin (Troll Train) rode mine and compared to his GG MC350F. 

He was amazed by the suspension, control, feel and handling.

check out his you tube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzMEDu6C0cs

It will never replace a gas bike , but I love the options I have.

MJ

Rappstar932 wrote:

I have owned my Stark for about 6 months and love the bike.  It's a great alternative bike to have. The Dealership I work for has...

I have owned my Stark for about 6 months and love the bike. 

It's a great alternative bike to have. The Dealership I work for has 47 of them sold and the second batch coming in any day.

Our local Pro Alex Martin (Troll Train) rode mine and compared to his GG MC350F. 

He was amazed by the suspension, control, feel and handling.

check out his you tube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzMEDu6C0cs

It will never replace a gas bike , but I love the options I have.

MJ