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What about em?
My guess is that Yamaha is the company that brought out the first modern 4 stroke with the YZ400F.
They still sell 2 strokes, so I don't know.
Yamaha has been working on E bikes for a while. But either way, Yamaha didn’t kill its 2 stroke assembly like Honda, Suzuki, and Kawasaki.
Please Beagle, don’t hijack another thread and consider it as your personal echo chamber.
Thanks.
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Does that also count for the same couple of tools who are in every thread coming up with absolute batshit crazy theories to discredit e-bikes?
Yes.
When they are affordable, reliable and readily available, it will be time to get one….until then… I have to drill a hole in my KTM frame….
I'm sorry, do you mean that elaborating on your MotoE comment is hijacking the thread? Ok then let's not talk about MotoE or how "electrics will kill the sport" rehashed in every thread and let's go back to OP with Honda plans for electrification, shall we?
"Honda will begin the operation of dedicated electric motorcycle production plants, globally, beginning around 2027."
I would not expect many "big bikes" until then. That being said, as the CR-E would serve a niche market, they may not need to wait for dedicated factories for such relatively low production numbers.
"Honda will improve customer convenience by offering online sales that allow customers to purchase motorcycles without going to a dealer in person"
With all this clusterf*ck regarding Stark deliveries I find it amusing that they feel it's the way to go for them. Not to say they won't get it right, just funny. They are obviously trying to attract new and younger buyers, not old farts like myself.
"Honda will launch an all-solid-state battery test line in 2024, aiming to use the batteries in models to be introduced in the late 2020s."
This would enhance range and/or reduce battery weight and drastically reduce charging times. Of course this would be welcome for cars but I feel that for bikes it really could be key to produce performance motorcycles (beyond MX/SX). Obviously this has already been pushed back a few times so who knows when it will really come for production bikes?
Nb: quotes in italic come from Honda documents.
You know they put bigger tanks on the bike at southwick becuase the stock bikes can’t handle the speed and race time of a pro. You know they replace the clutch every moto becuase even an aftermarket clutch is fried by a pro….
And currently the rules make it not possible for the Stark Varg to even have a chance to reach your benchmark of what makes a motocross bike valid…
Are you a pro? Why would you only consider a bike valid for a weekend warrior IF a pro races it.
Alta and Stark are the only manufacturers who have made any effort to get their production electric motocross bikes into pro racing, the "industry" has not been welcoming.
Honda's CR-E is a prototype, it's only been raced in one race in the All Japan Motocross Championship, it' a prototype and is not ready for pro racing yet.
Yamaha is outsourcing electric motocross bike development, they have not publicly announced any in-house development.
Kawasaki has stated long term plans to go electric, but have not publicly stated anything about motocross bikes, or in-house development of motocross bikes.
Suzuki is focused on their largest markets in India and South East Asia, where there is not a lot of demand for motocross bikes, let alone electric motocross bikes.
KTM's CEO Stefan Pierer publicly stated in early 2023...
"he doesn’t see the firm developing anything above 11-kilowatt, 48-volt commuter bikes, in terms of power. In fact, he even characterized the idea of larger, high-powered electric motorcycles, at least for the moment, as “nonsense.” "
When Honda releases a production CR-E on the market, rules will change to allow electric motocross bikes into AMA and FIM Pro racing series.
I’m far from a pro, but I’ve found that a bike that has the range for a pro to finish a 30+2 has enough range for me to do shorter desert loops. I run a slightly bigger tank (2.4) on my current bike, it’s enough for me to do anything I want because I’m an out of shape grey beard.
Where could I get the equivalent of a 2.4 gallon tank for an electric bike without neutering the output? If it can’t do 50 miles that includes a bunch of tech and hill climbs, then it’s not ready for the average desert guy. That’s where the toy/novelty stuff comes from.
So because a motocross bike can't easily be set for your specific desert loop it is you still think of them as 'novelty/toy bikes.'
A streetbike is no good on a supercross track, a Harley Sportster is no good on road race circuit, a 1999 RM125 probably isn't that great for the Dakar race, do you consider them 'novelty/toy bikes' -- And the RM125 could be given a larger tank to give more range but with its 38hp and minimal torque your could turn the Stark Varg down to 30hp get a huge amount of range. Yet surely you consider a 1999 RM125 a real dirt bike even though it succeeds at your very specifc test better than a Stark would...
You are on a motocross forum and your litmus test on what a 'real' bike is, is a desert loop... cool.
He’s got a valid point though. More new dirt bikes that roll out of a dealership are gonna be trail ridden than taken to an MX track.
I’d hazard a guess that 70% of dudes buying bikes are play/trail riders and 30% are MX racers.
Im a fan of the Stark but it clearly has some limitations for a lot of real world use.
“Toy” may be harsh but “niche” is probably accurate.
I think you are definitely 'hazarding a guess' - with the amount of ride parks around, riding on a motocross track is easier than ever, and enduro are no longer the less capable cousin of motocross bikes.
Long gone are the days of KLX, XL, XR, LC4, DR, DRZ, TTR etc etc.
If you want to ride trail ride or desert ride or ride/race enduro/cross country, then theres a whole selection of purpose built high performance enduro bikes from almost every manufacturer with no mods required to do what you need. Stark is not competing with these, Stark is not an enduro/trail bike (at this stage) so you all you are doing is judging a motocross bike against the hazardly guessed perception of unintended use of a motocross bike where far better versions exist with that as the intended use, in the same stable of bikes...
I would hazard a guess that 85% of current gen motocross bikes sold are being used on motocross tracks (or training on redneck moto tracks in order to race/ride on motocross tracks, and motocross IS the intended use for them), and anyone intending to ride trail are buying EXC, CRFX, KXX, WRF etc etc etc.
Again, these comes with the features you are looking for from Stark, and Stark isn't competing against them so it's weird to judge them against this. So weird.
Enduro bikes almost universally outsell motocross bikes so I would hazard a guess that your guess is a hazard.
They’re not ready yet to do a full pro moto at a competitive power level on a national level track. It’s gonna happen, probably soon, but they’re not ready yet, so by your logic there isn’t an e-bike that’s as good as a 1999 RM125, because you’re gonna need to program the battery bike to 85cc power levels to finish a moto.
I think e-bikes are really cool, but they’re not really ready to compete, not yet. I’m hoping they get there before I hang up my boots, I’d like to own one, but not until they’re ready.
And I still think Honda will have a 2025 model announcement during 2024. They already have the know-how, and Honda likes the green image.
Yes they are not ready to do a full pro moto at 450 power - about 0.01% of motocross races... - but turn the power to RM125 levels and defintiely could do that.
But what are 99% of races? 10 minutes? 15 minutes? at 55hp this bike will do that all day long, and with still so much more torque than a 450...
So no this is not a perfect racer bike for 0.01% of racers, we agree.
But its an absolutely viable option for 99.9% of motocross bike riders who use their motocross bike for motocross track riding/racing... That'w who they are ready for.
If thats not you then... Cool move along, not for you, you would probably better off on a 500exc.
And BTW, The last person to win a national championship on an RM125 thinks the Stark is cool. So. Cool.
2006 Suzuki RM 125 put out 41 hp @ 11,500 RPM at the crank, turn the Stark down to 41hp it would easily finish a 30 minute +2 lap race with a pro rider!
And have bucket loads more torque.
thats 41hp at one moment in a super short powerband. 35hp on the Stark would probably be a better comparison…
and nobody is trying to convince you an RM125 is not a real bike.
And again 99.99% of races are under 20 minutes and more likely 10-15mins. So…. Buying just because what pro does good on what bike is silly.
Pit Row
But, but, but, vitards think they are pros who race 30 +2 lap motos!
The Stark is an ideal motocross bike for 95% of riders, who ride motocross practice tracks or race local motocross races, that is the majority of the people buying motocross bikes.
Chill out everyone, right now we don't know much, and range is very rider- and track-dependent.
Competition is the best way to get answers (and extrapolate to mere mortal skills), right now we know that Trey Canard raced the Honda for 15 min + 1 lap to podium in Japan MX, that Zaragoza raced the Varg in +10 min to podium in Finland SX and that Do raced the Varg to top6 in France SX2 (48 hp) in +10 min races. He got about 1.5 s from Shimoda laptimes (also podiums in AX UK 5 min races lol)
Some of these questions about wether it's "ready or not", will probably be better answered in 2024 at the pro level in various national championships for the Varg, and maybe other Japan wildcards for Honda. Also at the amateur level by thousands of Varg customers (ex GP rider won 25+ min MX race in France regional league).
Then you'll know a bit more if it's "ready or not" depending on your personal requirements.
And wether you consider it ready or not, electrics will not be to everyone taste or personal preferences, it's cool, it's just another option to have fun on 2 wheels to add to 2 strokes and 4 strokes.
Considering I am the target demo for these bikes maybe the shills can tell me and Vital why I need something that cost double what I have ever spent on a bike and I always buy new. Lmao.
I have not seen proof the varg is the ideal anything other than a large tchotchke.
How often do you buy new? Or better yet, why?
Last purchase was a 2021 KX250. A new 450 is on the docket but I am not ready to move yet for the only advantage being a button. I own multiple bikes so I don't really pound a bunch of hours on any one machine in short order.
I like owning new shit that was not pounded by another and am willing to pay for that luxury. Makes even less sense to buy something with a used battery, the cost $7K but what do I know? I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept of entry level bikes costing $15K growing the "sport". Why does anybody buy a new bike is the question I ask of you. Maybe come back in a few years when the used vargs start hitting the market so you can play captain brake check some moe.
What we don't see and can't see from race footage is battery performance and durability.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree and that's fine as neither of us truly have a clue if we are right
BUT I do think you are underestimating the amount of uneducated buyers going into a dealership and buying moto models to ride on the farm, trail ride, etc. etc. especially because they are typically cheaper than the off road specific models you are thinking of.
A quick glance on Marketplace will show TONS of "moto specific" bikes for sale that have clearly not been ridden or raced on a moto track ever.
For the busy dads, e bikes free up lots of time compared to ice bikes. The potential for tracks in town is also a big plus.
The only Dads I know that are willing to spend $15K on a bike are going to Loretta's. The varg you buy today will be toast before there are any of the utopia tracks that are E-only.
They’ve been developing and e bike that we’ve seen in some videos and they partnered with kawi and other oems on a battery standard.
OMG just stop calling it that. Okay...does no one understand what the F in CRF means anymore? Let me educate you. The F means Four-stroke. Before that the models were just CR250/CR125. You can't have a "CRFe". That would be a hybrid electric and Four Stroke bike. Stop sounding stupid.
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