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Edited Date/Time
12/12/2023 3:47pm
Question, maybe dumb, maybe not.
With the KTM chassis needing 8-10 hours to "break in" for proper feel. Do the race teams have test riders ride a frame for a while, putting some hours on them before Sexton, Malcom, Christian hop on them? Obviously with engines and suspension, they have test rigs in the shop that can break them in, but frames???? Anyone got an actual answer? Keefer? ML?
Duhh, they have a "frame break-in guy"... he's almost as important as the "goggle guy".
They break in there race bikes before the season for a short time. Then all the ktm/husky teams change frames every 6 races or so and those frames dont get broke in. All apart of the rotation of parts they have along with wheels electrical and so on
So you're saying that at round 5 or 6, Chase will hop on a brand new chassis with 0 hours on it? I'm not saying you're wrong, but that seems unlikely to me.
Usually frame and swing arm. Clamps all that stuff will be same
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So like a fluffier?
Except they make it softer..
I don't think the team riders have the same frame issues that we're seeing in the std production bikes that are being ridden in these shootouts. They've got the new "opened up shock mount gusset" frames from the 2024 FE and they've got some different mounts, fasteners and other "optional" items to choose from to get the feel they want.
The factory KTM Off road team was running the 25 frame all this year. The ktm mechanics tell me that it's stiffer torsionally and softer laterally then the 23/24 frame.
I'm tired of KTM making frames for the factory teams best interest then the masses best interest...
According to the guys who bought 23's and 24's there are no issues.
I think the idea of a frame needing to be broke in is completely silly lol. Open to educated pushback on this one but its a chromoly steel fixture, not an old mans knees. It's not "getting warmed up" after 10 hours. Discuss. No keefer quoting either.
Rigidity is the new buzzword . Im tired of all these jack ass wannabes saying there frame is to stiff. Its all bs.
I think it’s more of the whole bike starts to loosen up some, suspension, engine ect. I never feel totally comfortable a new bike, always feels better after 5-10-15 hrs… the majority of riders couldn’t tell the difference between frame stiffness or having 50 psi their tires…
I agree. But I feel its 99% suspension freeing up. 1% frame
This is my position. The suspension absolutely does wear in and "self tolerance" as time passes. Stiction reduces some, bushings will open up a little bit. etc. I think this applies to other parts of the bike as well.
The idea of the triple clamps and frame braking in just scream "bro knowledge" to me lol
I agree, wouldn't the steel have to surpass its yield strength and start to actually deform in order to change the way it flexes at all? To me at that point the frame would have failed if it's reaching that level of strain and starts to plastically deform. With aluminum it makes more sense because that point between elastic and plastic deformation is wider. With steel once it stretches its done. Maybe it has more to do with the fasteners and stuff settling or something idk
I'm not sure about KTM, but I read where the Kawasaki MXGP team has someone put a couple hours on their frames before they are raced. I would think the flexing of the frame through riding would change the elasticity of it and create a little more movement over time. I think it would be like a spring that softens after hours of use. Your springs don't change size or length, but they lose some strength over time. I probably couldn't feel it, but maybe some can.
In also in that camp... I feel like if a steel frame was actually 'bedding in' in a noticeable, tangible way, the frame in question would be pretty sketchy.
Suspension and so on bedding in makes complete sense.
I guess it is a matter of rider psychological preference.
Also, there are so many factors at play here that it would take an exceptional rider to feel the difference between a new frame, a 15 hr frame or a 30hr....
I personally feel that it is more of a psychological thing when it comes to riders with fickle demands.
I'd like to take three frames, a zero hour, a 15hr and a 30 hr....sink them In mud so that the frames are stained and look equally used...then have a dude ride them and see if he can tell which is which.
Pit Row
Could also be the chassis bearings and motor mounts etc settling in. Frame stretch is definitely real on steel frames though.
average guy here. No brand loyalty, actually that's a lie, I bleed red. No dog in the fight. I was very skeptical of the new bike as I read all the websites, tests, people saying they are too stiff, all of it. But with a little research other than Vital, and some common sense I pulled the trigger on a 24 KTM 450. First ride was , well, different. Not that it was stiff, it just seemed the rear was overpowering the front. After spending a little time adjusting the clickers, mainly the high speed, the bike came to life. I did add some stuff, but honestly I just don't get what all this too stiff chassis stuff is all about. Actually I would say the majority is humans doing what humans do and repeating what someone else told them. The bike is so good I bought another, 2024 FE501w last weekend. Rode it Sunday, all stock minus a Vortex, and it is stupid good! So, again, average consumer here, no loyalties to any bike, and will say as loud as I can, these frames/bikes are fricken awesome! Believe an actual owner/rider or the sheep online.
Stoked you got joined the Orange brigade. To me, coming off a Honda the KTM wouldn’t “feel” stiff so that does make sense. I feel that the Honda has the second most stiff frame in the class, with Suzuki being the most.
10 hours of stressing the frame is way past the point of replacing it for every factory team.
I was going through tech inspection at a SX behind Stantons mechanic and when they measured center of swingarm pivot bolt to the center of the front axle the mechanic claimed the frame was stretched out as being the reason it was no longer within the homologation specs.…… ya right lol.
Like you no brand loyalty. I don't get wtf people are talking about. My 23 KTM chassis felt pretty damn good from the day I rode it.
Not everyone will feel like the frame is “stiff” or “rigid”, like it or dislike it. I try to explain to riders that it’s ok if they don’t feel something that another rider does or doesn’t. Sometimes people get so bent out of shape over this stuff.
There’s so many factors… riders speed, weight, sensitivity, track conditions, dirt type, dry or wet. Where I feel the KTM is best, is mornings when the track is fresh. Then in the afternoon, it feels like a whole different bike. This is when I feel it get it’s rigid frame character, hardpack square edge bumps and uneasy for me to ride.
When you directly compare the new Yamaha, the bikes character doesn’t change dramatically from morning to afternoon, you know what you are going to get each time you get on the track.
Adding to this, I have no brand loyalty. I just want a bike that is the most fun each time I ride. Like when I’m loading up, I want to be stoked to get out the next day. Some riders is KTM, some it’s Suzuki or Yamaha. Not sure why people take it personal if they think a bike doesn’t feel good to them?
Ready to race… after 10 hours and thousands in suspension
Not exactly the same thing but in the carting world, the top dogs routinely put only a couple races on their chassis and then move on to a brand new one. These are basically frame and suspension in one with a little flex built in, but similar move in respect to quickly timing them out.
Isn’t it funny how you never heard about the chassis “break in” before KTM became prevalent? Dudes weren’t bitching 20-30 years ago that their new steel frame YZ needed time to “break in”.
Can an engineer tell us if the stiffness of metal changes after pressure is repeatedly applied? I assume there is a period in which the metal slightly bends, and this changes the geometry of the frame a bit, and the stiffness? At the same time, if the metal is actually bending, why would this stop after a certain amount of time? I don't really buy that the frame gets looser, either because the metal is more bendy, or because the geometry changes slightly. But I am not sure.
Actually, every factory team has their riders ride their race bikes a couple days before A1 to break them in.
I'm a process engineer at a big machine shop (not a metallurgist). But I can see absolutely no reason why a frame would get softer with age, sure as hell not noticeably after 10 hours. Steel generally will not deform permanently until yield strength is surpassed, steel does not get softer the more it is used without going past fatigue or yield limits.
A lot of this has already been settled in the mountain bike world as well, aluminum frames do not get flexier, the only thing that could make them feel softer is removing/replacing bearings a ton potentially loosening the bearings interference fit in the frame.
The only softening is in the heads of people who believe that metal gets floppy with age.
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