Kove MX450

Press516
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11/30/2023 5:36am
Sparling wrote:

IMG 4512IMG 4511

-MAVERICK- wrote:
"ask me how I know" Why not post the amount of money he claims it takes to "play the game?" Why ask the owner of TM...

"ask me how I know"

Why not post the amount of money he claims it takes to "play the game?"

Why ask the owner of TM if he knows? 

I'd suggest he's just inferring that TM has the same issue with the process...  Not really expecting anyone to "ask" them. 

And yes, we have long said that the AMA homologation rule is absurd with the quality and race-ability that production bikes have today.  The cost to submit to the AMA and the number of bikes required, etc needs to be revisited. 

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studworx
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11/30/2023 5:51am
studworx wrote:
The website states 37.5hp and 237 pounds dry for the 250. I don't think it's supposed to be a mainstream competitor, but rather a good entry...

The website states 37.5hp and 237 pounds dry for the 250. I don't think it's supposed to be a mainstream competitor, but rather a good entry level motocross bike for a new rider. That segment is unfilled in this industry and it desperately needs to be filled. You can buy an entry level car (Mazda 2, Honda fit, etc), but when it comes to MX bikes (not trail) you are forced to go used if you can't spend 9-12k on a new 250F.

Rmz250 is $6900 after factory rebate.

Here they aren’t. $12k OTD Canadin. Around 9ish USD. 

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studworx
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11/30/2023 5:52am Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 5:52am
Sparling wrote:

IMG 4512IMG 4511

-MAVERICK- wrote:
"ask me how I know" Why not post the amount of money he claims it takes to "play the game?" Why ask the owner of TM...

"ask me how I know"

Why not post the amount of money he claims it takes to "play the game?"

Why ask the owner of TM if he knows? 

Press516 wrote:
I'd suggest he's just inferring that TM has the same issue with the process...  Not really expecting anyone to "ask" them.  And yes, we have long...

I'd suggest he's just inferring that TM has the same issue with the process...  Not really expecting anyone to "ask" them. 

And yes, we have long said that the AMA homologation rule is absurd with the quality and race-ability that production bikes have today.  The cost to submit to the AMA and the number of bikes required, etc needs to be revisited. 

Tm doesn’t have whatever issue. They just don’t produce enough of each model. Idk what he’s on about

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11/30/2023 6:01am Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 6:24am
studworx wrote:
The website states 37.5hp and 237 pounds dry for the 250. I don't think it's supposed to be a mainstream competitor, but rather a good entry...

The website states 37.5hp and 237 pounds dry for the 250. I don't think it's supposed to be a mainstream competitor, but rather a good entry level motocross bike for a new rider. That segment is unfilled in this industry and it desperately needs to be filled. You can buy an entry level car (Mazda 2, Honda fit, etc), but when it comes to MX bikes (not trail) you are forced to go used if you can't spend 9-12k on a new 250F.

Rmz250 is $6900 after factory rebate.

studworx wrote:

Here they aren’t. $12k OTD Canadin. Around 9ish USD. 

Wouldnt a Kove also see a similar price bump over its US price?

But the larger point is that there is a budget option that is already available in the US and is priced within a stone's throw of the Kove. It is proven reliable and competitive. And it has very poor sales that are based mostly on brand loyalty. So at least in the US, lack of an entry-level option doesn't seem to be the major driving marketplace force.

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The Shop

BoxcarWilly
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11/30/2023 7:21am
studworx wrote:

Here they aren’t. $12k OTD Canadin. Around 9ish USD. 

Not sure who is bending you over for a $12,000 RMZ250, but they're nowhere near that here. 

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FGR01
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11/30/2023 7:23am
Brent wrote:
Don’t support China by buying cheap knock off products using copied technology.   All you guys are always so Pro- American, yet when Cheap Chinese knock off...

Don’t support China by buying cheap knock off products using copied technology.  

All you guys are always so Pro- American, yet when Cheap Chinese knock off product  comes to the USA you want to jump on it because of the price?

KTM and the Japanese OEMs have spent billions of dollars building their brands and establishing a long standing presence in the United States and Europe.  These Kove guys just copy the best things from each brand, slap some of the copied parts together, and ship containers full of these bikes to America.

China is not our friend. 


Buy from companies who support our country by being here for decades.

 

soggy wrote:
This same argument was probably used in the 70s when Japanese manufacturers were breaking into the market. Open your mind to new possibilities. We are all...

This same argument was probably used in the 70s when Japanese manufacturers were breaking into the market. Open your mind to new possibilities. We are all on this small rock together. 

The Japanese did not copy and undercut existing products.  They designed and produced superior products at a more affordable price.

The US has things like intellectual property protection laws to encourage companies to invest in development.  China does not and assists and/or encourages stealing intellectual properties to undercut companies that did all the work for them and played by the rules.   If everyone just followed the China model soon you'd have no investment and development if the reward is to have your work stolen.

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1
11/30/2023 7:38am

Triumph didn't invent a 250 four stroke motocross bike in a vacuum. They literally evaluated what was there, borrowed proven ideas and tech, and put their own touches on it.

Probably the same as what Kove is doing here.

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enketchum
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11/30/2023 11:56am

how much does it cost? 

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soggy
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11/30/2023 12:16pm
FGR01 wrote:
The Japanese did not copy and undercut existing products.  They designed and produced superior products at a more affordable price. The US has things like intellectual...

The Japanese did not copy and undercut existing products.  They designed and produced superior products at a more affordable price.

The US has things like intellectual property protection laws to encourage companies to invest in development.  China does not and assists and/or encourages stealing intellectual properties to undercut companies that did all the work for them and played by the rules.   If everyone just followed the China model soon you'd have no investment and development if the reward is to have your work stolen.

This bike appears to be pretty unique so I’m not sure your argument holds any water here. 

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1
11/30/2023 12:23pm
enketchum wrote:

how much does it cost? 

The supplier in China says the 450 is selling for $3800 usd, and they hope the US distributors pass those savings on to the customer.

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FGR01
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11/30/2023 12:39pm
FGR01 wrote:
The Japanese did not copy and undercut existing products.  They designed and produced superior products at a more affordable price. The US has things like intellectual...

The Japanese did not copy and undercut existing products.  They designed and produced superior products at a more affordable price.

The US has things like intellectual property protection laws to encourage companies to invest in development.  China does not and assists and/or encourages stealing intellectual properties to undercut companies that did all the work for them and played by the rules.   If everyone just followed the China model soon you'd have no investment and development if the reward is to have your work stolen.

soggy wrote:

This bike appears to be pretty unique so I’m not sure your argument holds any water here. 

What bike?   Who said anything about a bike?  I was addressing the general subject of "cheap Chinese knockoffs" in the thread of replies I replied to.  All water is held and your comparison to the rise of Japanese products in the 70's is full of holes here.

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soggy
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11/30/2023 12:42pm
FGR01 wrote:
The Japanese did not copy and undercut existing products.  They designed and produced superior products at a more affordable price. The US has things like intellectual...

The Japanese did not copy and undercut existing products.  They designed and produced superior products at a more affordable price.

The US has things like intellectual property protection laws to encourage companies to invest in development.  China does not and assists and/or encourages stealing intellectual properties to undercut companies that did all the work for them and played by the rules.   If everyone just followed the China model soon you'd have no investment and development if the reward is to have your work stolen.

soggy wrote:

This bike appears to be pretty unique so I’m not sure your argument holds any water here. 

FGR01 wrote:
What bike?   Who said anything about a bike?  I was addressing the general subject of "cheap Chinese knockoffs" in the thread of replies I replied to. ...

What bike?   Who said anything about a bike?  I was addressing the general subject of "cheap Chinese knockoffs" in the thread of replies I replied to.  All water is held and your comparison to the rise of Japanese products in the 70's is full of holes here.

Well you quoted my post and I was talking about Japanese motorcycle manufacturers which you directly responded too. And it seems this Chinese bike is pretty unique to itself. 

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1
11/30/2023 12:53pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 1:00pm
enketchum wrote:

how much does it cost? 

Already discussed in thread.

Probably the typical mfg's increase over the 250:

1
studworx
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11/30/2023 1:20pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 1:20pm
studworx wrote:

Here they aren’t. $12k OTD Canadin. Around 9ish USD. 

Not sure who is bending you over for a $12,000 RMZ250, but they're nowhere near that here. 

Never said I paid that, I don’t currently own a Japanese bike and have no plans to.. but that is what they are being sold for. I just had a forum topic about these insane RMZ deals people talk about and not one person could back their claim with a screenshot. 

With all fees these are around 9200-9700 OTD USD. 12400-13k Canadian  

here’s local dealer listings. 73C3A863-82E5-4EC6-BE36-619994E984B1

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1
11/30/2023 1:35pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 3:10pm
studworx wrote:
Never said I paid that, I don’t currently own a Japanese bike and have no plans to.. but that is what they are being sold for...

Never said I paid that, I don’t currently own a Japanese bike and have no plans to.. but that is what they are being sold for. I just had a forum topic about these insane RMZ deals people talk about and not one person could back their claim with a screenshot. 

With all fees these are around 9200-9700 OTD USD. 12400-13k Canadian  

here’s local dealer listings. 73C3A863-82E5-4EC6-BE36-619994E984B1

Wait, you were the one who couldn't back your claim with a screenshot in your thread.

In fact, still waiting on that screenshot for all the many posts on Vital you said were touting RMZ450s for 5k out the door 

3
Press516
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11/30/2023 3:08pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
"ask me how I know" Why not post the amount of money he claims it takes to "play the game?" Why ask the owner of TM...

"ask me how I know"

Why not post the amount of money he claims it takes to "play the game?"

Why ask the owner of TM if he knows? 

Press516 wrote:
I'd suggest he's just inferring that TM has the same issue with the process...  Not really expecting anyone to "ask" them.  And yes, we have long...

I'd suggest he's just inferring that TM has the same issue with the process...  Not really expecting anyone to "ask" them. 

And yes, we have long said that the AMA homologation rule is absurd with the quality and race-ability that production bikes have today.  The cost to submit to the AMA and the number of bikes required, etc needs to be revisited. 

studworx wrote:

Tm doesn’t have whatever issue. They just don’t produce enough of each model. Idk what he’s on about

That's part of the process and the expense.

1
studworx
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11/30/2023 3:13pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 3:21pm
studworx wrote:
Never said I paid that, I don’t currently own a Japanese bike and have no plans to.. but that is what they are being sold for...

Never said I paid that, I don’t currently own a Japanese bike and have no plans to.. but that is what they are being sold for. I just had a forum topic about these insane RMZ deals people talk about and not one person could back their claim with a screenshot. 

With all fees these are around 9200-9700 OTD USD. 12400-13k Canadian  

here’s local dealer listings. 73C3A863-82E5-4EC6-BE36-619994E984B1

Wait, you were the one who couldn't back your claim with a screenshot in your thread. In fact, still waiting on that screenshot for all the...

Wait, you were the one who couldn't back your claim with a screenshot in your thread.

In fact, still waiting on that screenshot for all the many posts on Vital you said were touting RMZ450s for 5k out the door 

There’s literally guys in the thread who said they also saw people touting those $5k RMZ’s. I can’t believe how emotionally invested you are in this. Seek mental help asap jesus christ

I’m not going through RMZ threads. It’s common around here to claim wild deals. Anybody as active as you would know this. Literally type “RMZ prices” and you’ll find plenty of examples. 
 

25391B63-3ED9-4FC4-B53F-7982FF8845F1.png?VersionId=B0YTpO4XQsc4i GnU.CuAWoygv7pN7

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11/30/2023 3:24pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 3:26pm
studworx wrote:
Never said I paid that, I don’t currently own a Japanese bike and have no plans to.. but that is what they are being sold for...

Never said I paid that, I don’t currently own a Japanese bike and have no plans to.. but that is what they are being sold for. I just had a forum topic about these insane RMZ deals people talk about and not one person could back their claim with a screenshot. 

With all fees these are around 9200-9700 OTD USD. 12400-13k Canadian  

here’s local dealer listings. 73C3A863-82E5-4EC6-BE36-619994E984B1

Wait, you were the one who couldn't back your claim with a screenshot in your thread. In fact, still waiting on that screenshot for all the...

Wait, you were the one who couldn't back your claim with a screenshot in your thread.

In fact, still waiting on that screenshot for all the many posts on Vital you said were touting RMZ450s for 5k out the door 

studworx wrote:
There’s literally guys in the thread who said they also saw people touting those $5k RMZ’s. I can’t believe how emotionally invested you are in this...

There’s literally guys in the thread who said they also saw people touting those $5k RMZ’s. I can’t believe how emotionally invested you are in this. Seek mental help asap jesus christ

I’m not going through RMZ threads. It’s common around here to claim wild deals. Anybody as active as you would know this. Literally type “RMZ prices” and you’ll find plenty of examples. 
 

25391B63-3ED9-4FC4-B53F-7982FF8845F1.png?VersionId=B0YTpO4XQsc4i GnU.CuAWoygv7pN7

So a guy that didn't purchase a 250 (not a 450) years ago before the market went up (just like you purchased one prior to the market going up) is proof of guys posting "all over Vital" are saying they are currently getting 450s for $5k, as you asserted?

7
studworx
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11/30/2023 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 3:28pm
Wait, you were the one who couldn't back your claim with a screenshot in your thread. In fact, still waiting on that screenshot for all the...

Wait, you were the one who couldn't back your claim with a screenshot in your thread.

In fact, still waiting on that screenshot for all the many posts on Vital you said were touting RMZ450s for 5k out the door 

studworx wrote:
There’s literally guys in the thread who said they also saw people touting those $5k RMZ’s. I can’t believe how emotionally invested you are in this...

There’s literally guys in the thread who said they also saw people touting those $5k RMZ’s. I can’t believe how emotionally invested you are in this. Seek mental help asap jesus christ

I’m not going through RMZ threads. It’s common around here to claim wild deals. Anybody as active as you would know this. Literally type “RMZ prices” and you’ll find plenty of examples. 
 

25391B63-3ED9-4FC4-B53F-7982FF8845F1.png?VersionId=B0YTpO4XQsc4i GnU.CuAWoygv7pN7

So a guy that [u]didn't[/u] purchase a 250 (not a 450) years ago before the market went up (just like you purchased one prior to the...

So a guy that didn't purchase a 250 (not a 450) years ago before the market went up (just like you purchased one prior to the market going up) is proof of guys posting "all over Vital" are saying they are currently getting 450s for $5k, as you asserted?

79B1D526-BA3A-454F-B1AC-B4B0B55176ABNothing I post will satisfy a goof like you lol

2
11/30/2023 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 3:32pm
studworx wrote:
There’s literally guys in the thread who said they also saw people touting those $5k RMZ’s. I can’t believe how emotionally invested you are in this...

There’s literally guys in the thread who said they also saw people touting those $5k RMZ’s. I can’t believe how emotionally invested you are in this. Seek mental help asap jesus christ

I’m not going through RMZ threads. It’s common around here to claim wild deals. Anybody as active as you would know this. Literally type “RMZ prices” and you’ll find plenty of examples. 
 

25391B63-3ED9-4FC4-B53F-7982FF8845F1.png?VersionId=B0YTpO4XQsc4i GnU.CuAWoygv7pN7

So a guy that [u]didn't[/u] purchase a 250 (not a 450) years ago before the market went up (just like you purchased one prior to the...

So a guy that didn't purchase a 250 (not a 450) years ago before the market went up (just like you purchased one prior to the market going up) is proof of guys posting "all over Vital" are saying they are currently getting 450s for $5k, as you asserted?

studworx wrote:
Nothing I post will satisfy a goof like you lol

79B1D526-BA3A-454F-B1AC-B4B0B55176ABNothing I post will satisfy a goof like you lol

Once again, none of those are 450s, and all are describing deals offered years ago, prior to jump in prices, just like you purchsed one cheaper than current prices years ago. They even explicitly say that in the posts.

4
studworx
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11/30/2023 3:32pm
So a guy that [u]didn't[/u] purchase a 250 (not a 450) years ago before the market went up (just like you purchased one prior to the...

So a guy that didn't purchase a 250 (not a 450) years ago before the market went up (just like you purchased one prior to the market going up) is proof of guys posting "all over Vital" are saying they are currently getting 450s for $5k, as you asserted?

studworx wrote:
Nothing I post will satisfy a goof like you lol

79B1D526-BA3A-454F-B1AC-B4B0B55176ABNothing I post will satisfy a goof like you lol

Once again, none of those are 450s, and all are describing deals offered years ago, prior to jump in prices, just like you purchsed one cheaper...

Once again, none of those are 450s, and all are describing deals offered years ago, prior to jump in prices, just like you purchsed one cheaper than current prices years ago. They even explicitly say that in the posts.

Last year…

And all posts here are referring to 250’s. So what are you on about? 
 

Be a stalking goof somewhere else

2
11/30/2023 3:34pm
studworx wrote:
Nothing I post will satisfy a goof like you lol

79B1D526-BA3A-454F-B1AC-B4B0B55176ABNothing I post will satisfy a goof like you lol

Once again, none of those are 450s, and all are describing deals offered years ago, prior to jump in prices, just like you purchsed one cheaper...

Once again, none of those are 450s, and all are describing deals offered years ago, prior to jump in prices, just like you purchsed one cheaper than current prices years ago. They even explicitly say that in the posts.

studworx wrote:

Last year…

And all posts here are referring to 250’s. So what are you on about? 
 

Be a stalking goof somewhere else

Yes 250s and all are explicitly saying they were at no longer available pricing. YOU were referring to 450s for 5k otd in your thread.

3
studworx
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11/30/2023 3:36pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 3:37pm
Once again, none of those are 450s, and all are describing deals offered years ago, prior to jump in prices, just like you purchsed one cheaper...

Once again, none of those are 450s, and all are describing deals offered years ago, prior to jump in prices, just like you purchsed one cheaper than current prices years ago. They even explicitly say that in the posts.

studworx wrote:

Last year…

And all posts here are referring to 250’s. So what are you on about? 
 

Be a stalking goof somewhere else

Yes 250s and all are explicitly saying they were at no longer available pricing. YOU were referring to 450s for 5k otd in your thread.

Why in the fuck are you referring to a thread from weeks ago inside a Kove MX thread today? Where I specifically said I’m not going through the forum and grabbing screen shots, and had multiple people also say they had seen people mention those bikes

Dude go get laid or something 😂 i bet your wifes boyfriend hasn’t lost any sleep over rmz threads on vital while he rails her

3
11/30/2023 3:38pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 3:52pm
studworx wrote:

Last year…

And all posts here are referring to 250’s. So what are you on about? 
 

Be a stalking goof somewhere else

Yes 250s and all are explicitly saying they were at no longer available pricing. YOU were referring to 450s for 5k otd in your thread.

studworx wrote:
Why in the fuck are you referring to a thread from weeks ago inside a Kove MX thread today? Where I specifically said I’m not going...

Why in the fuck are you referring to a thread from weeks ago inside a Kove MX thread today? Where I specifically said I’m not going through the forum and grabbing screen shots, and had multiple people also say they had seen people mention those bikes

Dude go get laid or something 😂 i bet your wifes boyfriend hasn’t lost any sleep over rmz threads on vital while he rails her

Huh? You were the one who referenced your thread, dude.

2
TeamGreen
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11/30/2023 4:29pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2023 11:35am

If the 250 is $5999…I’m thinking the 450 will be $7599-$7999…

My biggest concern is the suspension components being “YU-AN” and I’m wondering what the internals are like. Then there’s the engine components. Read the 250 page on their website…

“The clutch has also been improved, featuring more plates and better material than Zongshen. The outer engine cases are also slimer to provide better feel and improved access to the foot controls.  So while visually it may look similar, this motor is nothing like the other Zongshen NC250/300 motors.”

After reading all this and comparing their Rally bike and it’s content versus other Rally bikes…

Their 250 should be $3599-$3999 on a bad day. 

Also, when I read the 250s weight and power output, I’m left questioning their 450 numbers. Note: I’ve built Gen 1 Honda 250 Xs (the old carb’d motor from over a decade ago) that made better numbers than their new MX bike. 

Go watch the Kove 450 video. It talks about the 450 being under $4K in China; so, I have to ask…how the heck does their 250 end up being $6K after all the hype they pumped out about a sub $4K 450…? 

New manufactures are a welcome occurrence in moto; but, the value aspect of this is a bit skewed. 

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yota
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Crystal River, FL US
11/30/2023 5:48pm
yota wrote:

if you take a look at chinese demographics, we may not be seeing nearly as much stuff coming out of china in 10 or 15 years.

burn1986 wrote:

You might be looking for different word in there (maybe) instead of demographics?

demographics.  their population is an upside-down pyramid.  not enough young people to keep the ball rolling pretty soon.  

2
12/2/2023 4:55pm

Kove Moto USA confirmed that the 450 will be in teal, probably here in Summer/Fall 2024

 

4
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Richy
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12/3/2023 1:31am
burn1986 wrote:
I still haven’t heard back from Kove 😏 I would imagine there are distributors around, but I haven’t found them.    So, you pay $500 deposit...

I still haven’t heard back from Kove 😏

I would imagine there are distributors around, but I haven’t found them. 
 

So, you pay $500 deposit, and then wait for container information.

No worse than Stark...

Granted China is MUCH less credible or trustworthy than a European country.

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12/10/2023 10:10am Edited Date/Time 12/10/2023 10:16am

Kove's parts ording system is trash.  They don't have a year/model selector like virtually every other major brand. So that means there isn't an easy way of looking up availability and pricing. 

The screenshot below is as close as they get. This listing is for a flange bolt, but no idea which bolt they it refers to. There aren't links to see all parts on the fiche, which is hugely annoying.

If Kove or other upstart Asian brands want to compete and sell in the West, there has to be an easy and robust parts fiche system, same as we expect and rely on with our Kawasakis, Hondas, and KTMs.

They can't say they wanna compete in the market and literally not offer a full inventory of parts for existing models. This is for a Kove Rally 450 which has been out a while. 

image-20231210130720-1

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early
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12/18/2023 9:28am

Who doesn't love watching Carson Brown rip on any kind of bike.

 
 

 

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