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What offset are the clamps ?
Did you machine just upper mounts of front too? Have pictures how much you took off?
stock 22mm
I had my machinist match the FCP mounts best he could visually from their website. Pretty basic actually. We just did the top hangers.
for reference we also did my Honda's in the past and my new 24 KTM. All seem to benefit from machining out the hangers but felt most on the YZF. One last note, the KTM is supposed to be so stiff, haha, the YZ felt way stiffer than the KTM, at least for me.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
I see you have a Honda in your profile picture. You think the current generation Yamaha is stiff? How does it compare to the Honda in your opinion?
that is a Honda 450X, not the moto version. But we do the off road bike too. On the 450X we usually just drill a hole. Its not as stiff as the moto version.
@GPrider - did you sell your 2023 YZ450F? I recall you having it almost dialed but maybe couldn't quite get there?
I did. It was awesome in every way except for the most important thing for me, a little twitchy. I ride off road, I know its not an off road bike haha, so speeds can be a little on the fast side. Just never could get the stability I wanted. Tried clamps, stabilizer, ect. Just always had a bit of hunt and peck up front and that's no bueno.
Was waiting for the 24 yzfx but its still MIA. So, KTM xcf it is and couldn't be happier!
@GPrider did it feel looser or have more “hunting and pecking” than your 23 KTM? I’m switching from 23 FC450 Off road to 2024 YZ450F and it sounded like both have stiff frames, 22mm triples, etc so would love your feedback.
Also did you ever try 100mm or less of sag to see if that put enough weight on the front off road? Or were you closer to typical off road 105-107?
Thanks!
so it was super nimble off road. You could dance around stuff, hit whoops hard, very playful and fun. Honestly when I would ride it on my Baja loop, 75 miles of just about everything, its was ridiculously good once I got it set up properly. But the issue was on high speed trails/roads, washes, it just didn't feel settled up front. You really had to concentrate and squeeze the bike as it felt it could go bad at some point. Even though it never did, its sketchy at speed. 14/47 gearing in fifth and looking for 6th gear kind of stuff.
The KTM, once I set it up, and that's a bunch of stuff, doesn't do that at all. It's so stable and does everything the YZ did on top of that. I have 15/48 gearing. On the same test loop it has never ever once got sketchy. Thats KYB forks, RE 23.5 split clamps, stabilizer, ect...
My opinion after hours of testing the YZ is 3mm fork height, no more no less. 104mm sag. This is for me though. Another note, the shop who did my yz suspension told me at first they were lowering the rear, shortening the shock, ect.. come to find out they say the rear needs to be up, not down like I had it. So who knows. That was six months ago so not sure where the suspension tuners are now.
I chased the traditional methods searching for more stability. Lowe rear and high in the front....Couldn't find it lol.
Local suspension guy did my suspension a few weeks back and stated "this bike needs more weight on the front" he ended up lengthening the shock and asked me to run 5-7mm fork height and 103 sag (or less if i can manage) Sadly the weather in Canada hasn't allowed any test time.
exactly what I was told too. The funny thing is the new 2024 FX comes stock 10mm lower in the rear!! Crazy
Pull the tampon pssy!
Calm down, were friends. Lol
I came from 23 Husky 350 and Yamaha chasis feels softer. I think the 23/24 Honda is more rigid than both bikes.
Yamaha for sure is the least stable, I’ve found good balence with 1-2mm of forks up in clamps and 103mm sag. The balence is very sensitive, because if you go too low in sag you don’t have front wheel traction. But if you go with front wheel traction you have lost stability.
My new thought is to try the Luxon link, 1 or 2mm longer which will lower the seat height 4-6mm. But then run 98mm of sag. This will keep the shock higher in the stroke, but not feel stink bug and over the front while riding. Any thoughts?
Tomorrow I’m going to test 14/52 gearing and also stock front mounts vs FCP. I like the top FCP mounts, but not sure if lowers are needed.
@CarlinoJoeVideo what are Ross and Will at Enzo saying about the balance?
For everyone trying to adjust their chassis by changing torque settings, please think about what you’re doing for a second. Changing the torque load in a bolt is not in any way changing its elastic modulus (aka how stiff it is), nor is it changing the stiffness of the mating components. What you are potentially doing is creating a slip joint where there was never intended to be one, and introducing an almost completely unpredictable source of error when tuning the bike. I find it extremely hard to believe that turning clickers or a revalve isn’t enough to make these bikes work, introducing even more variables to the equation like slip joints in the chassis is a great way to chase your tail.
I know that Don Maeda said on one of his shows, that a factory mechanic told him that on a particular Honda 450, swapping out the front engine mount bolt for a slightly larger diameter one would make the bike turn better. He was incredibly skeptical, but when he tried it, his bike did actually turn better.
I wouldn't personally leave a bolt loose, but it seems sometimes these minor things actually have an effect.
Linkage will help stabilize the rear snd maintain your balance of front end bite. Be weary of pitch though.
Pit Row
I rode today and really felt great on the bike and the balance. So I’m not sold on the long link idea, just kicking it around.
I rode the 14/52 gearing and it’s a great step in the direction I like. Made 3rd longer and then I drop to second for inside corners. The high end of 2nd/3rd chassis and shock was more forgiving. I didn’t feel any reason to go back to 13/49.
Such a fun bike, today was one of those days that I been looking for. Bike felt consistent from morning to dry/rough afternoon!
We're talking about two different things, a different diameter bolt can effect the stiffness of a joint, but if it still fits through the stock sized mounting hole I have to express extreme skepticism that anyone could actually tell the difference (assuming similar material and a rigid joint). Now, if they're drilling the hole larger then all bets are off, "slightly larger" isn't very specific. I think my point is people should pause for a moment and really think about what some of these media outlets are suggesting you should do, and what the intended "or unintended" effects may be. There's a shocking amount of suggestions in magazines/media and in this thread that absolutely do not pass the smell test, and people shouldn't judge blindly based on what someone does or doesn't "feel".
I mentioned this back in page 2,3, or 4......ideal set up for moto for '23 YZ 450F:
14-52 sprocket, Forks+2-3mm, Sag 103-105, Revalve F+R to remove stiff harness of stock valving/set up, Magic map if you prefer linear, of Stock Aggressive map if you prefer hard hit. AME grips, stock bars are stiff, and I have tall seat SDG (+.50").
Nothing more needed, except ride, and get used to the diff feel from '22 to '23.
I'm with you on the sag and fork height, but I can't really understand the 14/52 gearing. I know it's all pretty subjective, but one of the main gripes I have about this new bike is the gearing. 2nd and 3rd gear are taller than I'd like with the stock 13/49. I'm currently running 13/50 and still feel like I can't carry 3rd as easily as I'd like to on tighter tracks. Going to 14/52 is taller than the stock gearing and it seems like a step in the wrong direction to me. Maybe the advantages are more related to the leverage of the larger rings or where the axle sits in the swingarm? Maybe it's just better for larger, faster tracks? I love the bike regardless of how picky I am on gearing. I just would really love to run 3rd gear more.
That said, I rode a new Honda 450 the other day and while the suspension and chasis are not as good as my bike, I really loved the motor/tranny. 3rd gear everywhere!
I think the gear depends on tracks. Some of the California tracks are 3-4th gear so 14/52 works. I wouldn’t do that if I was riding tracks in 2-3rd. Also dirt is a factor, hardpack, tacky or sand.
As far as axle position with 14/52, it’s slightly forward from 13/49, I think it will stretch over time and be pretty close.
Yeah, it’s all very subjective. My local track is relatively tight and a little supercrossy, but my ‘19 and ‘21 worked perfectly on it @ 13/50. I ride the entire track in 2nd, but would much prefer 3rd 👍
Anyone tried thinner enduro rear axle yet? Stock is 25mm but enduro is 22mm and wheel spacers fit inside 25mm bearing and axle blocks to swingarm. That will give more flex for sure. I think KTM went to 22mm rear axle.
@CarlinoJoeVideo are you running Vortex ECU or OEM?
Sounds like your dialing her in
Vortex ECU From Twisted with “Rideable” map. Very good and easy to ride! So much roll on traction, it’s not touchy like the other maps, yet the connection is still there. Feels like a YZ400F
Is this mod from a 23 450FX?
Sounds interesting, but honestly don’t know if I need any more compliance on the rear end. It could possible help side angle rear wheel traction as you exit corners. Hummmm…
Awesome. Got one from Jamie showing up Friday with gear based mapping.
He mentioned your name. Appreciate the feedback.
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