Washington Rider Shot and Killed

CalRMX
Posts
198
Joined
4/17/2015
Location
Brea, CA US
11/1/2023 11:13am
CalRMX wrote:
100% the security guy overreacted.  Probably ex police or sheriff with a bad record , bad attitude.and poor training. Most likely instead of trying to de-escalate...

100% the security guy overreacted. 

Probably ex police or sheriff with a bad record , bad attitude.and poor training.

Most likely instead of trying to de-escalate, they made it worse. Due to poor training when he/she was LE. It's a myth that LEO's are well trained, and being trained to de-escalate is very rare.

When it's all said and done, I think it'll be found that the security guy did something to the son and the father intervened.

The security guard could have taken their truck licence number and walked away, but instead had to go all Rambo.

next time the security guard see's the son I hope it's not down a dark alley or out in the boonies.

 

lostboy819 wrote:

Speculate much ? 

mxb2 wrote:

Ya think. Lol.  I guess he was there. 

No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor, it doesn't surprise me that this could have happened.

100% it's the security guard who caused the whole situation to spin out of control.

It's only now that some departements are starting to train de-escalation techniques. 100% the security guard never got trained to de-escalate.

 

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19
mxb2
Posts
22437
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Location
Bowie, MD US
11/1/2023 11:19am
lostboy819 wrote:

Speculate much ? 

mxb2 wrote:

Ya think. Lol.  I guess he was there. 

CalRMX wrote:
No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor...

No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor, it doesn't surprise me that this could have happened.

100% it's the security guard who caused the whole situation to spin out of control.

It's only now that some departements are starting to train de-escalation techniques. 100% the security guard never got trained to de-escalate.

 

Guess we will find out,when the facts come out.  

Coach529
Posts
396
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Coeur d'Alene, ID US
11/1/2023 11:23am
mxb2 wrote:

Ya think. Lol.  I guess he was there. 

CalRMX wrote:
No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor...

No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor, it doesn't surprise me that this could have happened.

100% it's the security guard who caused the whole situation to spin out of control.

It's only now that some departements are starting to train de-escalation techniques. 100% the security guard never got trained to de-escalate.

 

mxb2 wrote:

Guess we will find out,when the facts come out.  

If the facts come out.

 

1
11/1/2023 11:41am
lostboy819 wrote:

Speculate much ? 

mxb2 wrote:

Ya think. Lol.  I guess he was there. 

CalRMX wrote:
No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor...

No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor, it doesn't surprise me that this could have happened.

100% it's the security guard who caused the whole situation to spin out of control.

It's only now that some departements are starting to train de-escalation techniques. 100% the security guard never got trained to de-escalate.

 

So what you are really saying is that you dont know shit, we figured that out as soon as you posted. 

WVlw6Kv 1.gif?VersionId=.4Cxt67XBLUYYRuClgg Da8T5rClP

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3

The Shop

freeh
Posts
770
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
West Jordan, UT US
11/1/2023 11:43am
CalRMX wrote:
100% the security guy overreacted.  Probably ex police or sheriff with a bad record , bad attitude.and poor training. Most likely instead of trying to de-escalate...

100% the security guy overreacted. 

Probably ex police or sheriff with a bad record , bad attitude.and poor training.

Most likely instead of trying to de-escalate, they made it worse. Due to poor training when he/she was LE. It's a myth that LEO's are well trained, and being trained to de-escalate is very rare.

When it's all said and done, I think it'll be found that the security guy did something to the son and the father intervened.

The security guard could have taken their truck licence number and walked away, but instead had to go all Rambo.

next time the security guard see's the son I hope it's not down a dark alley or out in the boonies.

 

lostboy819 wrote:

Speculate much ? 

This entire thread is speculation.   I guess if someone's speculation is counter to someone else's, it's ok to call them out on it.  Typical vitard mindset for most in this thread.

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4
byke
Posts
2944
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA US
11/1/2023 12:45pm

Saying it's 100% this or that is the exact opposite of speculation.

1
11/1/2023 12:51pm
lostboy819 wrote:

Speculate much ? 

mxb2 wrote:

Ya think. Lol.  I guess he was there. 

CalRMX wrote:
No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor...

No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor, it doesn't surprise me that this could have happened.

100% it's the security guard who caused the whole situation to spin out of control.

It's only now that some departements are starting to train de-escalation techniques. 100% the security guard never got trained to de-escalate.

 

You are an absolute clown. "It's only now that some departments...."

Do you understand there are MANY career LEO and MIL guys in here that can contradict that nonsense claim? Are there bad cops, ABSOLUTELY, but your blanket statement and assumption of facts is so delusional it's actually pretty shocking.

By the way, most career leo/mil guys will be the FIRST to point out failures on the side of the cops. Why? Because it disgusts us more than it does the general public, honestly.

Only thing that's "100%" fact here is your self-righteous delusional bubble-living mentality. Get off the internet and click-bait news articles and go get some real world experience. 

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wwdiii
Posts
2534
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
League City, TX US
11/1/2023 1:14pm

Anybody have an update.  Where any charges filed or additional information, on going investigation as I recall.

11/1/2023 1:34pm
wwdiii wrote:

Anybody have an update.  Where any charges filed or additional information, on going investigation as I recall.

Ask CalRMX , it sounds like he was right there when it happened. Whistling

7
2
Richy
Posts
3086
Joined
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Location
UK GB
11/1/2023 1:51pm

"100%"

3
CalRMX
Posts
198
Joined
4/17/2015
Location
Brea, CA US
11/1/2023 1:52pm
mxb2 wrote:

Ya think. Lol.  I guess he was there. 

CalRMX wrote:
No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor...

No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor, it doesn't surprise me that this could have happened.

100% it's the security guard who caused the whole situation to spin out of control.

It's only now that some departements are starting to train de-escalation techniques. 100% the security guard never got trained to de-escalate.

 

You are an absolute clown. "It's only now that some departments...." Do you understand there are MANY career LEO and MIL guys in here that can...

You are an absolute clown. "It's only now that some departments...."

Do you understand there are MANY career LEO and MIL guys in here that can contradict that nonsense claim? Are there bad cops, ABSOLUTELY, but your blanket statement and assumption of facts is so delusional it's actually pretty shocking.

By the way, most career leo/mil guys will be the FIRST to point out failures on the side of the cops. Why? Because it disgusts us more than it does the general public, honestly.

Only thing that's "100%" fact here is your self-righteous delusional bubble-living mentality. Get off the internet and click-bait news articles and go get some real world experience. 

By the way, most career leo/mil guys will be the FIRST to point out failures on the side of the cops. Why? Because it disgusts us more than it does the general public, honestly.

 

Total Bullshit, when do fellow cops complain about fellow cops behaviour? Never in public. They close ranks, it's not done. Unless you want to make yourself very unpopular.

Look at what happens to people in the LA Sherriffs dept when they complain about bad behaviour. They get ostracised and threatened by their fellow sherriffs.

https://www.techdirt.com/2022/05/12/los-angeles-sheriffs-deputy-alleged…

from the article

And, like any gang, a failure to play by these rules is met with punishment. At best, breaking the rules will result in ostracism. In most cases, though, rulebreakers are subjected to violence. Apparently, LASD deputies who are members of LASD gangs aren’t immune from this immutable fact of gang membership.

------------------------

OK Nathaneil129, so what are you a Mall Cop?

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10
11/1/2023 1:58pm
CalRMX wrote:
No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor...

No I wasn't, but having seen LEO in action, and knowing people who do private weapons training and who think the LEO training is very poor, it doesn't surprise me that this could have happened.

100% it's the security guard who caused the whole situation to spin out of control.

It's only now that some departements are starting to train de-escalation techniques. 100% the security guard never got trained to de-escalate.

 

You are an absolute clown. "It's only now that some departments...." Do you understand there are MANY career LEO and MIL guys in here that can...

You are an absolute clown. "It's only now that some departments...."

Do you understand there are MANY career LEO and MIL guys in here that can contradict that nonsense claim? Are there bad cops, ABSOLUTELY, but your blanket statement and assumption of facts is so delusional it's actually pretty shocking.

By the way, most career leo/mil guys will be the FIRST to point out failures on the side of the cops. Why? Because it disgusts us more than it does the general public, honestly.

Only thing that's "100%" fact here is your self-righteous delusional bubble-living mentality. Get off the internet and click-bait news articles and go get some real world experience. 

CalRMX wrote:
By the way, most career leo/mil guys will be the FIRST to point out failures on the side of the cops. Why? Because it disgusts us...

By the way, most career leo/mil guys will be the FIRST to point out failures on the side of the cops. Why? Because it disgusts us more than it does the general public, honestly.

 

Total Bullshit, when do fellow cops complain about fellow cops behaviour? Never in public. They close ranks, it's not done. Unless you want to make yourself very unpopular.

Look at what happens to people in the LA Sherriffs dept when they complain about bad behaviour. They get ostracised and threatened by their fellow sherriffs.

https://www.techdirt.com/2022/05/12/los-angeles-sheriffs-deputy-alleged…

from the article

And, like any gang, a failure to play by these rules is met with punishment. At best, breaking the rules will result in ostracism. In most cases, though, rulebreakers are subjected to violence. Apparently, LASD deputies who are members of LASD gangs aren’t immune from this immutable fact of gang membership.

------------------------

OK Nathaneil129, so what are you a Mall Cop?

100%

3
1
byke
Posts
2944
Joined
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Location
Auburn, CA US
11/1/2023 2:08pm
Richy wrote:

"100%"

Basically a perfect 5/7. 

1
truck
Posts
3531
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
Louisville, KY US
Fantasy
11/1/2023 3:01pm

So much stupid in this thread. 

I have the misfortune of having to interact regularly with the darker side of society that most people pretend don't exist. As such, I carry a gun everywhere, just like pretty much everyone who sees this side of society does. Knowing that total scum exists in much larger quantities than most realize and knowing that I'm armed both lead me to avoid confrontation at all costs. It's really quite simple. Shut up. Walk away. Let the other guy think he's a tough guy for winning an argument. Simple shit. I have zero fear of getting shot by a police officer even when I am carrying a gun, because I don't behave like a jackass when I interact with them. These guys apparently bet their life that they could argue with and get physical with a guy placed in an authority position because they didn't want to shut their mouth and walk away. Even if the cop didn't handle it perfectly, making that bet is ignorant as hell and literally nothing positive can come of it. You cannot win that bet. Control what you can control and you go home in one piece even if the cop is a power hungry dumbass. Insane that people would argue otherwise but here we are...... 

24
3
freeh
Posts
770
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
West Jordan, UT US
11/1/2023 4:09pm
truck wrote:
So much stupid in this thread.  I have the misfortune of having to interact regularly with the darker side of society that most people pretend don't...

So much stupid in this thread. 

I have the misfortune of having to interact regularly with the darker side of society that most people pretend don't exist. As such, I carry a gun everywhere, just like pretty much everyone who sees this side of society does. Knowing that total scum exists in much larger quantities than most realize and knowing that I'm armed both lead me to avoid confrontation at all costs. It's really quite simple. Shut up. Walk away. Let the other guy think he's a tough guy for winning an argument. Simple shit. I have zero fear of getting shot by a police officer even when I am carrying a gun, because I don't behave like a jackass when I interact with them. These guys apparently bet their life that they could argue with and get physical with a guy placed in an authority position because they didn't want to shut their mouth and walk away. Even if the cop didn't handle it perfectly, making that bet is ignorant as hell and literally nothing positive can come of it. You cannot win that bet. Control what you can control and you go home in one piece even if the cop is a power hungry dumbass. Insane that people would argue otherwise but here we are...... 

You don't know any more about what actually happened than anyone else. Your personal experience has zero to do with this situation. 

4
10
11/1/2023 4:11pm

Maybe this post should be locked 🔒 

8
truck
Posts
3531
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
Louisville, KY US
Fantasy
11/1/2023 4:30pm
truck wrote:
So much stupid in this thread.  I have the misfortune of having to interact regularly with the darker side of society that most people pretend don't...

So much stupid in this thread. 

I have the misfortune of having to interact regularly with the darker side of society that most people pretend don't exist. As such, I carry a gun everywhere, just like pretty much everyone who sees this side of society does. Knowing that total scum exists in much larger quantities than most realize and knowing that I'm armed both lead me to avoid confrontation at all costs. It's really quite simple. Shut up. Walk away. Let the other guy think he's a tough guy for winning an argument. Simple shit. I have zero fear of getting shot by a police officer even when I am carrying a gun, because I don't behave like a jackass when I interact with them. These guys apparently bet their life that they could argue with and get physical with a guy placed in an authority position because they didn't want to shut their mouth and walk away. Even if the cop didn't handle it perfectly, making that bet is ignorant as hell and literally nothing positive can come of it. You cannot win that bet. Control what you can control and you go home in one piece even if the cop is a power hungry dumbass. Insane that people would argue otherwise but here we are...... 

freeh wrote:

You don't know any more about what actually happened than anyone else. Your personal experience has zero to do with this situation. 

I'm plenty confident based on the reported description of events that poor decisions were made by those who were shot. If you'd like to believe they behaved saintly and 100% of the blame is with someone else, you do you..... 

1
4
Zacka 161
Posts
1618
Joined
7/30/2009
Location
Mount Waverley, VIC AU
11/1/2023 4:45pm
truck wrote:
So much stupid in this thread.  I have the misfortune of having to interact regularly with the darker side of society that most people pretend don't...

So much stupid in this thread. 

I have the misfortune of having to interact regularly with the darker side of society that most people pretend don't exist. As such, I carry a gun everywhere, just like pretty much everyone who sees this side of society does. Knowing that total scum exists in much larger quantities than most realize and knowing that I'm armed both lead me to avoid confrontation at all costs. It's really quite simple. Shut up. Walk away. Let the other guy think he's a tough guy for winning an argument. Simple shit. I have zero fear of getting shot by a police officer even when I am carrying a gun, because I don't behave like a jackass when I interact with them. These guys apparently bet their life that they could argue with and get physical with a guy placed in an authority position because they didn't want to shut their mouth and walk away. Even if the cop didn't handle it perfectly, making that bet is ignorant as hell and literally nothing positive can come of it. You cannot win that bet. Control what you can control and you go home in one piece even if the cop is a power hungry dumbass. Insane that people would argue otherwise but here we are...... 

freeh wrote:

You don't know any more about what actually happened than anyone else. Your personal experience has zero to do with this situation. 

truck wrote:
I'm plenty confident based on the reported description of events that poor decisions were made by those who were shot. If you'd like to believe they...

I'm plenty confident based on the reported description of events that poor decisions were made by those who were shot. If you'd like to believe they behaved saintly and 100% of the blame is with someone else, you do you..... 

A poor decision was made by the person doing shooting... A worse decision. 

Based on reading through this thread.
- One persons choice was to get uppity

- One persons decision was murder

Murder is a worse decision in my not very humble super woke liberal agenda opinion. 

2
15
truck
Posts
3531
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6/10/2015
Location
Louisville, KY US
Fantasy
11/1/2023 4:56pm
freeh wrote:

You don't know any more about what actually happened than anyone else. Your personal experience has zero to do with this situation. 

truck wrote:
I'm plenty confident based on the reported description of events that poor decisions were made by those who were shot. If you'd like to believe they...

I'm plenty confident based on the reported description of events that poor decisions were made by those who were shot. If you'd like to believe they behaved saintly and 100% of the blame is with someone else, you do you..... 

Zacka 161 wrote:
A poor decision was made by the person doing shooting... A worse decision.  Based on reading through this thread. - One persons choice was to get...

A poor decision was made by the person doing shooting... A worse decision. 

Based on reading through this thread.
- One persons choice was to get uppity

- One persons decision was murder

Murder is a worse decision in my not very humble super woke liberal agenda opinion. 

More than one person can make a poor decision, but you only control your decision. Make the decision that makes it less likely that you get shot. It's not complicated. 

This debate basically comes down to whether you believe in taking responsibility for your actions or if you go through life thinking you're a victim of circumstances and someone else is always to blame. 

3
2
Gmyersdork
Posts
322
Joined
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Location
Beverly Hills, FL US
11/1/2023 5:41pm

Don't trespass?

4
5
Sideways91
Posts
133
Joined
8/15/2022
Location
Dayton, NV US
11/1/2023 5:58pm

Remember when dirt bikes were cool? Shame to see so many pussy ass cops and boot licking friends in this thread. Glad to see y'all take time out of work and abusing your families to grace us with your presence.

Joking aside, I think we've all seen enough footage of cops lying and being trigger happy to cast doubt on anything police claim, so I can understand where some people are claiming the rent a cop was in the wrong.

 

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Coach529
Posts
396
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Coeur d'Alene, ID US
11/1/2023 7:11pm

With the little information out there how can anybody make a judgement on who was right or wrong?

I am local and have not heard a thing since the initial report. 

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Zacka 161
Posts
1618
Joined
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Location
Mount Waverley, VIC AU
11/1/2023 7:13pm
truck wrote:
I'm plenty confident based on the reported description of events that poor decisions were made by those who were shot. If you'd like to believe they...

I'm plenty confident based on the reported description of events that poor decisions were made by those who were shot. If you'd like to believe they behaved saintly and 100% of the blame is with someone else, you do you..... 

Zacka 161 wrote:
A poor decision was made by the person doing shooting... A worse decision.  Based on reading through this thread. - One persons choice was to get...

A poor decision was made by the person doing shooting... A worse decision. 

Based on reading through this thread.
- One persons choice was to get uppity

- One persons decision was murder

Murder is a worse decision in my not very humble super woke liberal agenda opinion. 

truck wrote:
More than one person can make a poor decision, but you only control your decision. Make the decision that makes it less likely that you get...

More than one person can make a poor decision, but you only control your decision. Make the decision that makes it less likely that you get shot. It's not complicated. 

This debate basically comes down to whether you believe in taking responsibility for your actions or if you go through life thinking you're a victim of circumstances and someone else is always to blame. 

Notice you always put the onus of responsibility on the dead person.... not on the person who made the choice to murder... 

Perpetuating this idea that the victims choices are to blame for the murderers murdering is so so so dumb. And that people in America should live with the assumption that any point anyone no matter what could and will kill them, that fear of murder should be the default in any interaction. And that if they 'act incorrectly' being murdered is their fault.  

What a way to live.

Murder is bad maybe rotate your thinking to that. Murder is bad. That murderer chose murder.  His choice.  The worse choice.  Life is about choices don't make the worse choice and then blame the dead person for it...

 

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Coach529
Posts
396
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Coeur d'Alene, ID US
11/1/2023 7:29pm
Zacka 161 wrote:
A poor decision was made by the person doing shooting... A worse decision.  Based on reading through this thread. - One persons choice was to get...

A poor decision was made by the person doing shooting... A worse decision. 

Based on reading through this thread.
- One persons choice was to get uppity

- One persons decision was murder

Murder is a worse decision in my not very humble super woke liberal agenda opinion. 

truck wrote:
More than one person can make a poor decision, but you only control your decision. Make the decision that makes it less likely that you get...

More than one person can make a poor decision, but you only control your decision. Make the decision that makes it less likely that you get shot. It's not complicated. 

This debate basically comes down to whether you believe in taking responsibility for your actions or if you go through life thinking you're a victim of circumstances and someone else is always to blame. 

Zacka 161 wrote:
Notice you always put the onus of responsibility on the dead person.... not on the person who made the choice to murder...  Perpetuating this idea that...

Notice you always put the onus of responsibility on the dead person.... not on the person who made the choice to murder... 

Perpetuating this idea that the victims choices are to blame for the murderers murdering is so so so dumb. And that people in America should live with the assumption that any point anyone no matter what could and will kill them, that fear of murder should be the default in any interaction. And that if they 'act incorrectly' being murdered is their fault.  

What a way to live.

Murder is bad maybe rotate your thinking to that. Murder is bad. That murderer chose murder.  His choice.  The worse choice.  Life is about choices don't make the worse choice and then blame the dead person for it...

 

If you get physical with a security guard that has a gun, there can be consequences. 

Calling it murder means it was premeditated. 

 

6
truck
Posts
3531
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
Louisville, KY US
Fantasy
11/1/2023 8:28pm
Zacka 161 wrote:
A poor decision was made by the person doing shooting... A worse decision.  Based on reading through this thread. - One persons choice was to get...

A poor decision was made by the person doing shooting... A worse decision. 

Based on reading through this thread.
- One persons choice was to get uppity

- One persons decision was murder

Murder is a worse decision in my not very humble super woke liberal agenda opinion. 

truck wrote:
More than one person can make a poor decision, but you only control your decision. Make the decision that makes it less likely that you get...

More than one person can make a poor decision, but you only control your decision. Make the decision that makes it less likely that you get shot. It's not complicated. 

This debate basically comes down to whether you believe in taking responsibility for your actions or if you go through life thinking you're a victim of circumstances and someone else is always to blame. 

Zacka 161 wrote:
Notice you always put the onus of responsibility on the dead person.... not on the person who made the choice to murder...  Perpetuating this idea that...

Notice you always put the onus of responsibility on the dead person.... not on the person who made the choice to murder... 

Perpetuating this idea that the victims choices are to blame for the murderers murdering is so so so dumb. And that people in America should live with the assumption that any point anyone no matter what could and will kill them, that fear of murder should be the default in any interaction. And that if they 'act incorrectly' being murdered is their fault.  

What a way to live.

Murder is bad maybe rotate your thinking to that. Murder is bad. That murderer chose murder.  His choice.  The worse choice.  Life is about choices don't make the worse choice and then blame the dead person for it...

 

First off, you need to look up the definition of murder, because this isn't it by anyone's account. 

Next ask yourself if there is such a thing as justifiable homicide. If not, we can stop talking because we've found our point of disagreement. 

Everyone is responsible for their choices. Everyone. Read it again. Everyone. If YOU are in a situation and the choice YOU make predictably increases the chance YOU end up dead, YOU should make a different choice. This is to say nothing about what the other person chooses, what is right or wrong, what we all wish the world looked like, etc. If YOU find YOURSELF in an interaction with an armed person, YOU should deescalate that situation as best YOU can or YOU might end up dead. This isn't so much an opinion or a commentary on the state of affairs as it is a fact of life, in the US or anywhere else.

But yeah I'm sure it's all a big conspiracy and the witnesses, local police, DA, etc are all in on covering for the security guard who executed the 100% blameless father to release his pent up desire to kill...... 

1
6
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
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Location
Bowie, MD US
11/1/2023 8:33pm
Sideways91 wrote:
Remember when dirt bikes were cool? Shame to see so many pussy ass cops and boot licking friends in this thread. Glad to see y'all take...

Remember when dirt bikes were cool? Shame to see so many pussy ass cops and boot licking friends in this thread. Glad to see y'all take time out of work and abusing your families to grace us with your presence.

Joking aside, I think we've all seen enough footage of cops lying and being trigger happy to cast doubt on anything police claim, so I can understand where some people are claiming the rent a cop was in the wrong.

 

So if someone supports law enforcement, they are boot lickers and pussys? What are you. 10 years old. Grow up. You sound uneducated. 

3
5
Zacka 161
Posts
1618
Joined
7/30/2009
Location
Mount Waverley, VIC AU
11/1/2023 9:51pm
truck wrote:
More than one person can make a poor decision, but you only control your decision. Make the decision that makes it less likely that you get...

More than one person can make a poor decision, but you only control your decision. Make the decision that makes it less likely that you get shot. It's not complicated. 

This debate basically comes down to whether you believe in taking responsibility for your actions or if you go through life thinking you're a victim of circumstances and someone else is always to blame. 

Zacka 161 wrote:
Notice you always put the onus of responsibility on the dead person.... not on the person who made the choice to murder...  Perpetuating this idea that...

Notice you always put the onus of responsibility on the dead person.... not on the person who made the choice to murder... 

Perpetuating this idea that the victims choices are to blame for the murderers murdering is so so so dumb. And that people in America should live with the assumption that any point anyone no matter what could and will kill them, that fear of murder should be the default in any interaction. And that if they 'act incorrectly' being murdered is their fault.  

What a way to live.

Murder is bad maybe rotate your thinking to that. Murder is bad. That murderer chose murder.  His choice.  The worse choice.  Life is about choices don't make the worse choice and then blame the dead person for it...

 

truck wrote:
First off, you need to look up the definition of murder, because this isn't it by anyone's account.  Next ask yourself if there is such a...

First off, you need to look up the definition of murder, because this isn't it by anyone's account. 

Next ask yourself if there is such a thing as justifiable homicide. If not, we can stop talking because we've found our point of disagreement. 

Everyone is responsible for their choices. Everyone. Read it again. Everyone. If YOU are in a situation and the choice YOU make predictably increases the chance YOU end up dead, YOU should make a different choice. This is to say nothing about what the other person chooses, what is right or wrong, what we all wish the world looked like, etc. If YOU find YOURSELF in an interaction with an armed person, YOU should deescalate that situation as best YOU can or YOU might end up dead. This isn't so much an opinion or a commentary on the state of affairs as it is a fact of life, in the US or anywhere else.

But yeah I'm sure it's all a big conspiracy and the witnesses, local police, DA, etc are all in on covering for the security guard who executed the 100% blameless father to release his pent up desire to kill...... 

Yeah cool. 
 

if YOU have a gun and YOU feel threatened or scared and YOU kill someone’s that’s YOUR CHOICE.  The murderer is a murderer that made worse choices than the YOU, that YOU are capitalising to something weird.

If someone is riding somewhere they shouldn’t be, and YOU tell them to stop and they get aggressive YOU have a choice to step aside let them, call the additional authorities etc etc. or YOU decide instead to stand your ground and murder then YOU made a choice given the circumstances and YOU chose murder.  
 

Is there justifiable homicide, dono, maybe, in very specific circumstances where it’s very clear that if that person isn’t specifically killed you will specifically die. Then yes. Some breaks into your house to steal a TV, a bike, a car - not justifiable homicide.  A security guard preventing people accessing a trail. Not justifiable homicide. if you have an option to leave and no one is killed and you decide to kill, not justifiable.   In my opinion without considering the specific minutia and the American context of - anyone could have a gun therefore any amount of aggression from anyone could be consider or argued as a lethal threat and killing them is somehow then justifiable homicide.

 

A human life is worth more than any belongings

A decision to end a human life is a worse decision than the decision to get uppity

 

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mxb2
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11/1/2023 10:05pm
Zacka 161 wrote:
Notice you always put the onus of responsibility on the dead person.... not on the person who made the choice to murder...  Perpetuating this idea that...

Notice you always put the onus of responsibility on the dead person.... not on the person who made the choice to murder... 

Perpetuating this idea that the victims choices are to blame for the murderers murdering is so so so dumb. And that people in America should live with the assumption that any point anyone no matter what could and will kill them, that fear of murder should be the default in any interaction. And that if they 'act incorrectly' being murdered is their fault.  

What a way to live.

Murder is bad maybe rotate your thinking to that. Murder is bad. That murderer chose murder.  His choice.  The worse choice.  Life is about choices don't make the worse choice and then blame the dead person for it...

 

truck wrote:
First off, you need to look up the definition of murder, because this isn't it by anyone's account.  Next ask yourself if there is such a...

First off, you need to look up the definition of murder, because this isn't it by anyone's account. 

Next ask yourself if there is such a thing as justifiable homicide. If not, we can stop talking because we've found our point of disagreement. 

Everyone is responsible for their choices. Everyone. Read it again. Everyone. If YOU are in a situation and the choice YOU make predictably increases the chance YOU end up dead, YOU should make a different choice. This is to say nothing about what the other person chooses, what is right or wrong, what we all wish the world looked like, etc. If YOU find YOURSELF in an interaction with an armed person, YOU should deescalate that situation as best YOU can or YOU might end up dead. This isn't so much an opinion or a commentary on the state of affairs as it is a fact of life, in the US or anywhere else.

But yeah I'm sure it's all a big conspiracy and the witnesses, local police, DA, etc are all in on covering for the security guard who executed the 100% blameless father to release his pent up desire to kill...... 

Zacka 161 wrote:
Yeah cool.    if YOU have a gun and YOU feel threatened or scared and YOU kill someone’s that’s YOUR CHOICE.  The murderer is a murderer...

Yeah cool. 
 

if YOU have a gun and YOU feel threatened or scared and YOU kill someone’s that’s YOUR CHOICE.  The murderer is a murderer that made worse choices than the YOU, that YOU are capitalising to something weird.

If someone is riding somewhere they shouldn’t be, and YOU tell them to stop and they get aggressive YOU have a choice to step aside let them, call the additional authorities etc etc. or YOU decide instead to stand your ground and murder then YOU made a choice given the circumstances and YOU chose murder.  
 

Is there justifiable homicide, dono, maybe, in very specific circumstances where it’s very clear that if that person isn’t specifically killed you will specifically die. Then yes. Some breaks into your house to steal a TV, a bike, a car - not justifiable homicide.  A security guard preventing people accessing a trail. Not justifiable homicide. if you have an option to leave and no one is killed and you decide to kill, not justifiable.   In my opinion without considering the specific minutia and the American context of - anyone could have a gun therefore any amount of aggression from anyone could be consider or argued as a lethal threat and killing them is somehow then justifiable homicide.

 

A human life is worth more than any belongings

A decision to end a human life is a worse decision than the decision to get uppity

 

So if you trepass,illegal, and get confronted and told to leave. , you are gonna argue or leave. ?  

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