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I have Ohlins suspension on my bike and I want to re-valve the setup for desert racing. I'm in SoCal and it seems like most shops don't work on Ohlins or very rarely do. I was looking at sending my suspension to ProPilot on the East Coast for work. On their site the list re-valves for mx/enduro/gncc but not for desert. Is there that much difference between GNCC valving to desert valving? I haven't called them yet but I was wondering if I really need a tuner that knows a good desert setup or am I just overthinking this?
Desert is kind of a broad term...desert hare and hound (generally high speed)...desert enduro (generally slow speed).
Which are you looking for?
Having raced eastern enduros and GNCCs many years ago and now riding in Utah and Colorado I can tell you there are a lot of differences in GNCC and Desert riding/racing and each requires specialized settings that have been researched and tested by the suspension tuner. As an eastern rider who used to ride/train near where ProPilot is based, I would NEVER have my suspension revalved by a desert racing specialist and I would recommend you not going with an eastern shop to do your work for your needs. GNCCs are raced at slower average speeds on generally softer terrain than desert while "dancing" the bike through trees, rocks, and mud. This is all done at generally more moderate RPMs which places less load on the suspension. Throw in the particular bike, your size and skill, and you have variables an eastern shop has no experience or consistent testing with. I would give Enduro Spec Suspension or Stillwell Suspension a call and talk it over with them as they both have lots of experience with suspension brands other than KYB, Showa, and WP. I have used Enduro Spec for Marzocchi forks and they work well for Rocky Mountain trails but the owner is a desert racer so he should have a good idea what would be good for you. Stillwell is based in AZ so they should know and test in desert conditions. Good luck!
https://www.endurospec.com/
https://stillwellperformance.com/
Desert will typically be quite a bit stiffer because of the high speed hits. Setting up suspension for Worcs/NGPC is tough because it’s a mixture of actual motocross (Glen Helen for example) then high speed g outs and square edges when you are on the off-road parts of the course. Then blessed with the 5th gear rocky sections like at the 29 palms track. GNCC stuff would be overall softer for the rocks/roots/logs.
I remember watching a GoPro of colton haaker i believe at king of the motos. He went from slow hills, going over any rock/boulder straight to 5th gear desert whoops. I’d imagine getting that setup good was extremely tough
I mean desert racing is mostly either flat or whooped out rollers. Motocross suspension would probably be best for high speed whoops/rollers. offroad suspension might be on the side of being too soft for desert racing and have the effect of making the bike compress too far into the rollers and therefore rebound too excessively.
then again maybe I'm biased because i use motocross suspension even for gncc offroad riding because its just so much better on braking bumps.
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Uhhh, no, desert racing is not flat or just whooped out rollers. That's like saying supercross is just nothing but triple jumps.
Yeah there is lower speed off road style trails in the hills and mountains where gncc suspension would work good, but in my experience actual desert racing is mostly through high speed rollers or just flat desert like dodging sage brush.
the guy who posted 2 minutes before me said more less the same thing as me
Desert racing (hare and hound) has whoops and rollers, braking and acceleration bumps, loose rocks and embedded rocks, small chop and massive g-outs, sand and hard pack, 100 mph flats and slow techy enduro sections, up hills and down hills, all in the same race…
It’s tricky to get a solid set up that works everywhere in a hare and hound desert race…hare and hound suspension set up is a game of give and take.
But if you race desert enduros…you get less of the fast flat stuff, g-outs and high speed whoops and rollers…so it would be an entirely different suspension set up…but I think it’s easier to get a set up that works almost everywhere in enduro.
Yeah i was talking about hare and hound style racing. I would never think to race one without straight MX suspension, even though most or at least half out there probably use a gncc style setup for hare and hound. I honestly don't know what expert running at these hare and hound but my guess is straight MX or stiffer off road style at the very least
I’ve been racing hare and hounds (and hare scrambles and GP’s and Enduros in the desert) for the past 13-14 years…currently racing 40+ Expert…And I acknowledge that It’s a bit personal preference…but I run what most would consider an off-road set up on my YZ450FX…I’ve raced MX suspension in the past and it’s just way to harsh and beats me to death after 3 hours…(plus because I ride/race other things besides hare and hounds, the softer suspension benefits there).
The desert might look smooth in GoPro and YouTube videos when you see guys dodging sage brush and pinned across dry lake beds…but trust me when I say it’s incredibly choppy and bumpy (outside of the whoops, rollers, and g-outs)…softer-than MX valving- suspension is needed…
Is that like Take 5?
Spot on. Then throw in the word “Baja”, and you’ve got an even broader meaning.
To the OP, what series or area of desert you talking about racing?
Ha! Fat fingers…
I want to set up my bike as a SCORE Baja prerunner and a desert hare and hound racer. Right now, my suspension on the small stuff is killing me, like sand ripples and hitting small 5 inch or so rocks. It works well on the really fast sections, like 5th gear pinned and hit a big unseen g-out or whoop, but even then, I've never bottomed out the suspension.
There are great tuners for desert racing here, but the Ohlins suspension is the hang up. I'm guessing they don't have allot of data for a good setup.
Does Precision Concepts work on Ohlins? They've always had a pretty good reputation for off road suspension work.
I called them a couple of times and the response was something like "let me see if we can gets parts for them" and I never heard back. I talked to Kreft since it's a KTM, but they don't work on Ohlins. I'm sure shops will work on them to get the business, but the only shop that specifically said they work on Ohlins was ProPilot.
Have you tried AHM in Yorba Linda? Best choice for Baja suspension if they will work on Ohlins.
Are you on an Austrian bike?
Rob at RD Suspension may be able to help. I’ve talked to him a few times about some ohlins setup; he specializes in ohlins and I think he’s in Oceanside. He was friendly and helped me with set up over the phone a few times.
https://motocrosssuspension.com
It's a 2014 KTM 450-SXF. I haven't heard of AHM, but I'll look into them.
Pit Row
MX Suspension would be horrible on the slower speed and rocky sections at a Hare & Hound.
This is just my opinion I suppose but I've raced at every Hare & Hound venue on the circuit....they are far from just flat desert and pounding whoops the whole time.
Try Noleen/J6, they have experience with Ohlins from the Hep team. Or the other option would be go back to the OE or a KYB fork. My son bought a YZ450 that had Ohlins components, which he was super excited about. Once we got into them though, they were so different internally, any prior settings we had(I do all of our own suspension) were of no use because there is basically no crossover. So instead of starting from scratch and developing settings for an unfamiliar component, we just bought a set of KYBs and lived happily ever after.
MX suspension isn't bad at all in low speed rocky off road terrain.
I can sort of hear the argument that MX suspension wears some guys out after 2 hours or so. But in my head when I think of someone using soft trail rider suspension to hit desert rollers at speed, all I can think of is a knees-way-too-far-forward riding style basically just wallowing into the next roller and inevitably panic revving and swapping out until chopping the throttle and saving it
moral of the story: get real suspension for your bike if you live in the desert so you can actually wheel tap stuff and carry decent speed. Don't believe the panty gang with G strings hanging out there riding gear that soft af wallowing out suspension is what you need for a desert race
You might try tracking down https://www.dicksracing.com/
I get the feeling you’ve never raced in the desert, nor have much experience riding there? And/or assume desert racers can’t ride?
Suspension valved for off road RACING isn’t the same suspension you’ll find on an off-road trail bike (Honda XR, or Yamaha TTR or Kawasaki KLX trail bikes)…it very much is real suspension, and can handle whoops and rollers just fine, but is softer in the initial stroke to take the beating out of the chop and rocks in the desert…it works far better than motocross suspension.
I’m curious…What class do you race? You talk like you’re a bad dude on a bike, so I’m curious…
I'm actually not in the business of taking questions. But i raced 250 A in caliente this year
You’re probably right and probably way faster than me
I only know enough to have about a dozen A class podium trophies in my garage from various Hare & Hounds the last couple decades.
Well, at least you can ride…If you like moto suspension better than off-road valved suspension in the desert, then more power to you. I think you’ve either never ridden good off-road suspension before, or are a glutton for punishment…but we can Agree to disagree…
I heard back from AHM and they don't work on Ohlins but recommended Noleen. I've heard of Noleen before but haven't found much about their suspension work. Do you have any experience with them? Just doing a search here and other online forums, I haven't found much as far as reviews or their suspension work that's recent or not about vintage bike setups.
Noleen has the experience to hopefully make your suspension really good, but I will throw out that I had a friend get some shady work done by them on one of his builds. If I remember correctly, the biggest thing was him getting charged for all wear parts, and the dirt on the dust covers showed the fork tubes were never separated from each other to “replace the seals and bushings”. I think the other thing was them not shortening the shock, but charging for it. I’ll see if I can find the post
Exactly who I would approach about setting the Ohlins up.
I’ve always told whoever does my suspension that I race SRA gps at glen Helen and race a coupe desert races a year. What I end up with seems to be a couple clicks away from working everywhere. I also use the same bike for all my dualsport trips and trails and I’ve had a Honda, KTM, and currently a Yamaha. Used different shops for each brand and never had any issues.
Post a reply to: Whats the difference between GNCC and desert suspension re-valving?