Forks bottoming out after factory connection work

rmracer289
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Not bashing factory connection at all, but I sent my suspension to them to have them set it up for me. I had it previously done by a local pro action guy and had no real complaints but wanted to see if a big name company with a good reputation could possibly make it better. 
 

I spent around $1600 for them to re-valve and they made some spring changes. They went down two spring rates on the front. They put one of those rings on the lower fork tube and within one lap it’s slammed to the bottom. If I even slightly over jump anything the forks bottom out hard. 

I contacted them about this and they sent me a shipping label and I sent them back. They said the chamber seals weren’t changed when they originally did the work and they were blown out on one of the forks. They asked me to pay for the seals and sent them back to me. 
 

I still feel as though they still bottom out hard if I even slightly over jump something. And that ring is always at the very bottom. I’ve never had that ring on the lower fork tube so I can’t say if that’s normal for that to be all the way to the bottom, even if I don’t over jump anything. Just going off of the way the bike feels it’s definitely harsh on landings. Is it normal for that ring to be slammed all the way to the bottom? Or is that a good indicator that they went too soft on the springs? 

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10/14/2023 1:49pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2023 1:49pm

Did you like and not bottom(thru feel, harshness, etc) the PA suspension? Sounds to me they went too light on the spring rate. 

rmracer289
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10/14/2023 2:31pm

Did you like and not bottom(thru feel, harshness, etc) the PA suspension? Sounds to me they went too light on the spring rate. 

Never had this issue with the suspension before… when I sent the forks back I sent the old springs with them incase they wanted to put them back in, but they said there was no need and the new seals would take care of the issue. It is a little better but definitely still feels very harsh on landings. I really don’t know that much about suspension so I question myself on questioning their work lol But I’d imagine having that o ring slammed all the way to the bottom is a dead giveaway I need stiffer springs no? 

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MxAddic
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10/14/2023 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2023 2:45pm

If you are happy with the rest of the travel you more than likely have the correct springs. Try increasing the oil by 20ml and keep going up by 10 until you are happy or reach the capacity of the fork.

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j368
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10/14/2023 4:17pm

How many clicks out did they set the compression clickers at? Have you adjusted those at all?

The Shop

rmracer289
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10/14/2023 4:34pm

Looks like compression is 12 clicks out from full hard, spring rate is .46, and looks like they increased the fork oil level from 355cc to 365cc. I am 6’2” and 220lbs without gear. I haven’t made any adjustments.. I had originally asked them if I should make some compression adjustments before sending it back but they said no and to just send them back, which I’m glad they did because it ended up having blown chamber seals. 

Bruce372
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10/14/2023 5:13pm

Unless it's a yz250 smoker, those springs sound too light for 220lbs.

Was it $1600 just for the forks? If so, thats a rip off. 

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MxAddic
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10/14/2023 5:22pm
Bruce372 wrote:

Unless it's a yz250 smoker, those springs sound too light for 220lbs.

Was it $1600 just for the forks? If so, thats a rip off. 

Selling springs is big bizness.

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Steve Austin
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10/14/2023 7:03pm

The best suspension, period! 

rmracer289
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10/14/2023 8:02pm
Bruce372 wrote:

Unless it's a yz250 smoker, those springs sound too light for 220lbs.

Was it $1600 just for the forks? If so, thats a rip off. 

It’s an RM250. It was $1600 for the forks and shock. 

OwenJakes
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10/14/2023 9:10pm

They go light on fork springs and it's a real issue imo. The bike rides deep in the stroke and gets harsh as well as bottoms. Im a similar weight and .46 spring is not right at all. You need a .50 pair. 100%.

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Bruce372
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10/14/2023 9:34pm
Bruce372 wrote:

Unless it's a yz250 smoker, those springs sound too light for 220lbs.

Was it $1600 just for the forks? If so, thats a rip off. 

rmracer289 wrote:

It’s an RM250. It was $1600 for the forks and shock. 

From memory, 46 springs is perfect for 220lbs.

Still, $1600 is a lot of money imo

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MxAddic
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10/15/2023 12:10am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2023 12:14am
Bruce372 wrote:

From memory, 46 springs is perfect for 220lbs.

Still, $1600 is a lot of money imo

It’s on the light side but typical for FC. They make it up with valving. Better than PC that sold me springs I didn’t need including a rear the same rate as stock because they didn’t trust stock rates. When I tested the stock spring as I am sure they could have done it was spot on. Now I have a $150 pretty blue paperweight. Enzo was $700 with springs and all I use now.

FGR01
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Fantasy
10/15/2023 6:27am

FC does typically go towards the plush/soft side, but this sounds like a pretty extreme example.  .46 sounds too light to me, especially if you are any kind of decent rider.  Race Tech spring calculator says you need .49 and I tend to agree in the .48 -.49 range.   For comparison, I weigh 175-180 and I was running .44 - .45 in a YZ250 and it was just right, not overly firm at all.  I think if you try to compensate for those light springs with clickers and oil it's just going to continue to ride low in the stroke and get harsh.

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rmracer289
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10/15/2023 6:46am
Bruce372 wrote:

From memory, 46 springs is perfect for 220lbs.

Still, $1600 is a lot of money imo

So would you say it’s normal for that o ring to be at the very bottom? Or is that a sign I’m completely blowing through the stroke and need to make an adjustment wether it be spring rate or clickers/valving? 

MxAddic
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10/15/2023 7:15am
FGR01 wrote:
FC does typically go towards the plush/soft side, but this sounds like a pretty extreme example.  .46 sounds too light to me, especially if you are...

FC does typically go towards the plush/soft side, but this sounds like a pretty extreme example.  .46 sounds too light to me, especially if you are any kind of decent rider.  Race Tech spring calculator says you need .49 and I tend to agree in the .48 -.49 range.   For comparison, I weigh 175-180 and I was running .44 - .45 in a YZ250 and it was just right, not overly firm at all.  I think if you try to compensate for those light springs with clickers and oil it's just going to continue to ride low in the stroke and get harsh.

He didn't say it was riding low in the stroke and harsh.

rmracer289
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10/15/2023 11:10am
FGR01 wrote:
FC does typically go towards the plush/soft side, but this sounds like a pretty extreme example.  .46 sounds too light to me, especially if you are...

FC does typically go towards the plush/soft side, but this sounds like a pretty extreme example.  .46 sounds too light to me, especially if you are any kind of decent rider.  Race Tech spring calculator says you need .49 and I tend to agree in the .48 -.49 range.   For comparison, I weigh 175-180 and I was running .44 - .45 in a YZ250 and it was just right, not overly firm at all.  I think if you try to compensate for those light springs with clickers and oil it's just going to continue to ride low in the stroke and get harsh.

I believe the springs they took out were .49. Im pretty sure they know more about suspension set up than I do but maybe I will have them put those back in. If they did end up putting stiffer springs back in, would that also require the valving to be changed? 

gristle568
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10/15/2023 11:32am

if your not happy with them send them back and they should make it right. i had the same issue with a racetech shop and they revalved my stuff 3 times before i was happy with no questions asked, for $1600 you should be happy with it.  make sure your honest about your weight and riding ability.

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j368
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10/15/2023 11:51am
rmracer289 wrote:
Looks like compression is 12 clicks out from full hard, spring rate is .46, and looks like they increased the fork oil level from 355cc to...

Looks like compression is 12 clicks out from full hard, spring rate is .46, and looks like they increased the fork oil level from 355cc to 365cc. I am 6’2” and 220lbs without gear. I haven’t made any adjustments.. I had originally asked them if I should make some compression adjustments before sending it back but they said no and to just send them back, which I’m glad they did because it ended up having blown chamber seals. 

I would turn the compression clickers in 2 at a time till you find the setting that you like. The best you can hope for from a tuner is to get it in the ballpark. Then you have to fine tune it. FC tends to be on the softer side. Don’t hesitate to adjust the clickers. That’s why we have them. 

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Moto520
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10/15/2023 12:33pm

Call them and communicate with your feedback.   Go stiffer on the compression and see if that helps.   Talk to Factory Connection about adding 10cc of fork oil until it feels right for you.   It could be that your previous suspension was stiff as hell and now the new stuff feels off.

FC normally does good work so I’d keep setting it up.

Bruce372
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10/15/2023 3:12pm

This whole thing stinks.... they've replaced every wear part on the fork, and then want them back to replace the cartridge seals..... even the oem manual shows that you add oil and self bleed the cartridge.  It's the simplest procedure ever and the manual states the damper rod should extend xxMM otherwise replacement is needed.

As for the travel indicator, you should be at full travel for the biggest obstacle on the track... if it's bottoming everywhere,  then it's a bad setup.

It's been 15 years, my recommended spring for 220lbs on rm250 was 46kgmm, stock was 44 I think.  It's been a while tho....

rmracer289
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10/15/2023 4:42pm
Bruce372 wrote:
This whole thing stinks.... they've replaced every wear part on the fork, and then want them back to replace the cartridge seals..... even the oem manual...

This whole thing stinks.... they've replaced every wear part on the fork, and then want them back to replace the cartridge seals..... even the oem manual shows that you add oil and self bleed the cartridge.  It's the simplest procedure ever and the manual states the damper rod should extend xxMM otherwise replacement is needed.

As for the travel indicator, you should be at full travel for the biggest obstacle on the track... if it's bottoming everywhere,  then it's a bad setup.

It's been 15 years, my recommended spring for 220lbs on rm250 was 46kgmm, stock was 44 I think.  It's been a while tho....

Yeah I don’t know why they wouldn’t replace those seals when they had it originally… it wasn’t right from the first ride after getting them back so they could have been leaking after it was reassembled. I think you’re right about the stock spring rate, they said the springs they installed were two rates up from stock and two or three down from what I had in there. I’ll email them and see what they say but riding season is pretty much over here so even if they did take them back I wouldn’t be able to test them out until next year, and at that point I’m worried they’re going to say tough luck, now you gotta pay. 

Bruce372
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10/16/2023 10:40am

Are they bottoming hard? Are they bottoming over all obstacles? You can turn the clicker in and add more oil in 10cc increments.   The race tech book is very good for figuring stuff out and troubleshooting 

Bruce372
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10/16/2023 10:44am
Bruce372 wrote:
This whole thing stinks.... they've replaced every wear part on the fork, and then want them back to replace the cartridge seals..... even the oem manual...

This whole thing stinks.... they've replaced every wear part on the fork, and then want them back to replace the cartridge seals..... even the oem manual shows that you add oil and self bleed the cartridge.  It's the simplest procedure ever and the manual states the damper rod should extend xxMM otherwise replacement is needed.

As for the travel indicator, you should be at full travel for the biggest obstacle on the track... if it's bottoming everywhere,  then it's a bad setup.

It's been 15 years, my recommended spring for 220lbs on rm250 was 46kgmm, stock was 44 I think.  It's been a while tho....

rmracer289 wrote:
Yeah I don’t know why they wouldn’t replace those seals when they had it originally… it wasn’t right from the first ride after getting them back...

Yeah I don’t know why they wouldn’t replace those seals when they had it originally… it wasn’t right from the first ride after getting them back so they could have been leaking after it was reassembled. I think you’re right about the stock spring rate, they said the springs they installed were two rates up from stock and two or three down from what I had in there. I’ll email them and see what they say but riding season is pretty much over here so even if they did take them back I wouldn’t be able to test them out until next year, and at that point I’m worried they’re going to say tough luck, now you gotta pay. 

Fwiw, you can't even bleed the reassembled cartridge correctly if those seals are gone bad.  It's crazy they would miss that after replacing every other wear part on the forks .

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motomind132
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10/16/2023 11:29am Edited Date/Time 10/16/2023 11:30am
Bruce372 wrote:
This whole thing stinks.... they've replaced every wear part on the fork, and then want them back to replace the cartridge seals..... even the oem manual...

This whole thing stinks.... they've replaced every wear part on the fork, and then want them back to replace the cartridge seals..... even the oem manual shows that you add oil and self bleed the cartridge.  It's the simplest procedure ever and the manual states the damper rod should extend xxMM otherwise replacement is needed.

As for the travel indicator, you should be at full travel for the biggest obstacle on the track... if it's bottoming everywhere,  then it's a bad setup.

It's been 15 years, my recommended spring for 220lbs on rm250 was 46kgmm, stock was 44 I think.  It's been a while tho....

rmracer289 wrote:
Yeah I don’t know why they wouldn’t replace those seals when they had it originally… it wasn’t right from the first ride after getting them back...

Yeah I don’t know why they wouldn’t replace those seals when they had it originally… it wasn’t right from the first ride after getting them back so they could have been leaking after it was reassembled. I think you’re right about the stock spring rate, they said the springs they installed were two rates up from stock and two or three down from what I had in there. I’ll email them and see what they say but riding season is pretty much over here so even if they did take them back I wouldn’t be able to test them out until next year, and at that point I’m worried they’re going to say tough luck, now you gotta pay. 

Bruce372 wrote:
Fwiw, you can't even bleed the reassembled cartridge correctly if those seals are gone bad.  It's crazy they would miss that after replacing every other wear...

Fwiw, you can't even bleed the reassembled cartridge correctly if those seals are gone bad.  It's crazy they would miss that after replacing every other wear part on the forks .

Don't think they missed them. They probably went out when he bottomed the fork out. I've blown them out hitting knuckle on a face, getting shot way up and flat landing. Also have had the kyb blow out from a flat land. I drill little holes in all my kybs during their first rebuild now.

 

To the OP

Find out if the old springs were 49s from FC they should have that because of the rate change. If they are Just take one of your old springs and put it in there a spring swap is quick and easy once you buy fork cap tool.     Then if they feel better and your happy leave it if you feel like it could still be a little better throw the other one in and test it again. If you go with both original springs in it you'll need to swap the shock spring to see if that works better or worse then the FC spring.

That's what I would do if it was my bike. 

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rmracer289
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10/16/2023 3:50pm
Don't think they missed them. They probably went out when he bottomed the fork out. I've blown them out hitting knuckle on a face, getting shot...

Don't think they missed them. They probably went out when he bottomed the fork out. I've blown them out hitting knuckle on a face, getting shot way up and flat landing. Also have had the kyb blow out from a flat land. I drill little holes in all my kybs during their first rebuild now.

 

To the OP

Find out if the old springs were 49s from FC they should have that because of the rate change. If they are Just take one of your old springs and put it in there a spring swap is quick and easy once you buy fork cap tool.     Then if they feel better and your happy leave it if you feel like it could still be a little better throw the other one in and test it again. If you go with both original springs in it you'll need to swap the shock spring to see if that works better or worse then the FC spring.

That's what I would do if it was my bike. 

I did look on the original invoice and I don’t remember seeing those seals so they probably did reused them. I think you’re  right, they probably blew when I bottomed out… I know there were a couple times it bottomed out so hard I thought I was gonna knock my teeth out on my bars. 

rmracer289
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10/16/2023 3:56pm
Bruce372 wrote:
Fwiw, you can't even bleed the reassembled cartridge correctly if those seals are gone bad.  It's crazy they would miss that after replacing every other wear...

Fwiw, you can't even bleed the reassembled cartridge correctly if those seals are gone bad.  It's crazy they would miss that after replacing every other wear part on the forks .

Yeah I was kind of thinking the same thing motoman said… they could have blown out when I bottomed out. I wouldn’t say it’s brutal every time I jump but I definitely don’t feel too comfortable jumping with them.. 

MxAddic
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10/16/2023 4:00pm
rmracer289 wrote:
I did look on the original invoice and I don’t remember seeing those seals so they probably did reused them. I think you’re  right, they probably...

I did look on the original invoice and I don’t remember seeing those seals so they probably did reused them. I think you’re  right, they probably blew when I bottomed out… I know there were a couple times it bottomed out so hard I thought I was gonna knock my teeth out on my bars. 

Lol, my KX450 was like that until I added 20ml. Even busted up a Bell visor.

DD325
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10/30/2023 8:18pm Edited Date/Time 10/30/2023 9:03pm

What bike are you running?  We've had great luck with FC and Hondas.  Definitely on plusher side but my son still likes to go big and never complains about bottoming too hard.  

rmracer289
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10/31/2023 5:09pm
DD325 wrote:
What bike are you running?  We've had great luck with FC and Hondas.  Definitely on plusher side but my son still likes to go big and...

What bike are you running?  We've had great luck with FC and Hondas.  Definitely on plusher side but my son still likes to go big and never complains about bottoming too hard.  

2006 RM250. It’s not as brutal as it was when the cartridge seals were blown out. They did offer to take them back and possibly make a spring change… unfortunately the season is over here so I won’t be able to ride again for like another 6 months. They also recommended adding more oil and making clicker adjustments, which I was thinking maybe I should do that before sending them back, but again, won’t be able to try them out for another 6 months.

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