Stark Vargs (as in plural)

It's a new product, with new technology, it will have issues, just like other new technology (Windows, iPhone) the first 2 generations have issues, by the 3rd generation Stark would have sorted the bugs out!

It's ancient technology being used in the motor and battery. That is the problem. Not everyone is duped by Stark hype.

Permanent magnet motors, with wound stators, date from the 1830s. Then, as now if the rotor magnets are overheated, the motor can easily be ruined.

The lithium ion battery technology was first shown in 1912, revisited in the 1970s and commercialised in the 1990s. It long ago effectively maxed it's storage capacity, and is ruined if overheated

Telephones are ancient technology, they were invented in 1844...

no progress has been made in this technology either!

Has an average Joe taken their purchase yet, or just "influencers"? Something just seems off with that. 

Not sure about that. Tiny telephone devices are bouncing signals off satellites around the globe.

The state of the art batteries are akin to the old telephones, heavy, cumbersome devices full of metal and plastic, connected by wires, and ironically, relying on a highly inflammable liquid hydrocarbon electrolyte, and, much of the time, fossil fuel generators for a recharge.

A friend of mine got his last week, mine should be here by the end of next month.  Regular guys are definitely starting to get theirs now.  

Not really. The people who make a living by being the first to get an item and show their viewers are always lining up first, often paying over retail , etc. to be among the first.  While  a lot of more regular people are more cautious and do not want to shell out their hard earned money for a first generation item. I'm sure there are some regular guys in there. But You might never see them post anything, anyplace. 

These threads get 1000's of views , but there are maybe 100 people who post in them regularly. Are those view counts "fake"?  There was a 25 number jump from Bryans vin to one  the vin on the next persons bike that was posted about on here. So that shows they had about 50 or so bikes made at that point.  I have a customer who is one of the regular guys ,that should be getting his soon. I will try and get him to post about his impressions.  But he is not the type of person that likes to put himself out there . 

I really do hope that more people decide to post some videos and reviews of the bikes. Good and bad. 

I would say that just like when 4 strokes were "new" to MX bikes , electric  motors and batteries may not be new tech themselves. But they are new to being used on a high performance dirtbike in a mostly successful way. And electric/lithium are still newer to being used at a large scale like they are, which will expose hidden issues and allow more advancements.

Computer modeling,  simulated testing,  manufacturing techniques have also made new things possible with older base tech. Its still a new application that will expose new faults for them to work around.And result in improvements  Oil companies have been buying and killing electric vehicle concepts for years, and spreading the same old stories you are.  

And you are correct on the overheating that will damage the motor and battery. Just like a gas or diesel engine. 

And just like vehicles powered by those fuels , the Stark, and Alta have sensors to alert the user of  a high temp. and put the bike into a limp mode before it reaches temps high enough to qualify as overheating in the sense of  being a damaging event.

Can you see a problem with an automatic limp mode if you are leading a race by 5 seconds half a lap from home?

Goldmember, how come the Lohner-Porsches from 1900 have similar vehicle and battery weight as a model 3, but barely a tenth of the range? What did they do wrong back then if battery technology hasn’t evolved as you say?

they are out there. buddy of mine got one, and hes a pretty casual moto guy that mostly ridies at his house and ordered it just like anyone else could have on day 1.  i was lucky to throw  a leg over it for like 10 min but unfortunately only got to ride up and down a dirt / gravel path lol. 

Don't verbal me please.

I didn't say battery technology has not evolved.

Quick check on Google and youtube, various posts from Varg owners from Sweden, Germany, Italy...

Also guys doing woods, enduro, sand, rocks...

First win for a Varg in Germany, from what I understand it seems to be some kind of regional racing, not sure, still cool though, the guy was using 58-65 hp modes, tuned KYB kit forks from his KTM, got best lap in qualifying, holeshot in the race. In 3 races he got a win, 4th place (after fall) then 3rd place. Finished the 21 min races with 22-27% battery left. https://mxnews-online.com/stark-varg-holt-in-deutschland-ersten-laufsie…

Win for a Varg in France last weekend , regional league, two races (1st race was 8 laps, 12 km, 13 min, 2nd race was 9 laps 14 km, 15 min), about 70% battery left after each race, guy talks a lot, some race footage starting at 10'. With his qualifying time he would have started mid-pack in national (racing at the same event), national races were 13 laps, 18 min so battery wise seemed perfectly doable (although the rider does not have the level to win in this category... so he chose wisely 😉).

I mentioned that earlier, Virginie Germond just switched from KTM to Stark racking two 3rd places in her first race on the electric bike in France women championship. It's on par with the results she got with the KTM, she is currently 3rd in the France championship.

Interestingly she got podiums in +25 min races, so I don't think she finished in safety mode!

Btw she was 17th at France MXGP earlier this year on the orange bike, don't know if she intends to race the Stark in this championship as well.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cu7ZHn2sI38/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

So if your 450 was steaming you would just keep twisting it to win a piece of plastic or potentially have it lock up on the face of a jump?  I'll take limp mode.......that being said if it overheated every ride that would be a problem, but it's not.  

i'm in the camp of batteries are awesome and i still enjoyed this. 

we just want to check in quickly to tell you that we received your payment 

Next Steps

️ Your VARG gets in line for production

️ In a couple of weeks your order will be produced

️ You will get notified when your bike is ready to ship"

we will see.  By the way if I don't like it I will be dead honest. I always try to be resistant to the buyers confirmation bias. My use case will be riding with my son who races little bikes off road (austrian 50s) and my wife who races big bikes off road (xtrainer 300). My current other off road bikes are a Beta 300 race, a YZ490, and a TW200. My expecations are I will wish it had more range. Config is 18" rear wheel, hand brake. It will be my 3rd electric vehicle. I've worked as an engineer in the electric vehicle/lithium ion battery industry for the last 9 years. I'm quite aware of their pros and cons. I'm excited about where industry is headed while aware of where it is right now. 

yeah this is the coverage I enjoy. He has no reason to throw praise, no reason to burn it down, just an honest rap about what's works for him and what doesn't. I'd love to be a fly on the wall back at Stark HQ as these ramp in in frequency. I'm sure they watch through half covered eyes. It's an interesting time when the narrative becomes one that isn't completely controlled by the company. Make the best product you can, support the folks that purchased it, and if you can keep enough runway to continue producing, iteriate based on the results. 

I am guessing that  Stark could add , if it is not already  a feature. A way of indicating when the temps are approaching the limp threshold. Then like a gas/Diesel  vehicle it would let you know and You can decide to keep pushing and hit that limp mode temp, or slow and pull off. 

     I have had a badly timed experience with my truck going into limp mode on the first big road trip I took it on. On the way to Florida I got some bad diesel , dirty and full of water. Pulling a 16K pound toy hauler down 95 from Ma it kept putting me in limp mode, pull over, drain the water seperator and get an hour before repeating until we got to a dealer and got a new fuel filter. Over 200K abusive miles later. Towing, plowing most of those miles. My duramax is still running great. My Buddy with a 6.0 powerstroke had his temp light come on, and before he noticed it and pulled over, he blew the engine. He had a programer that disabled some of the safety stuff. His truck ended up being sold for parts with well under 100K miles on it.

       So yes while that limp mode sucked on RT 95, forced to drive 25mph until safe to pull off. My truck is still alive and well , and original. And he now also owns a duramax . It should not be a common thing for it to go into limp mode. And if it is, well then I agree that would be an issue. But I'll take a couple DNF's over killing my battery or motor. Maybe You can disable that feature if You do not mind taking the extra risks.    

I don't think Stark would take the reputational risk of a discretionary limp mode setting. 

A race winning bike having a battery fire and explosion in the pits would be just too exciting.

If you're interested in enduro/woods/trail/off-road/whatever (it's too subtle for me, appreciate if someone can drop a link with some definitions) there are already some nice videos about the Varg.

First videos I've seen come from Enforcer Enduro from Sweden, they are incredibly detailed with lots of data. Check out his YT channel he's already at his 6th video dedicated to Enduro with the Varg, including 3 dedicated to range testing, here is the first one:

In these conditions he used 44% of the battery in 1h16min (average speed 14 km/h). On faster track he used 64% battery in 1h38min (average speed 31 km/h). That is about 2h30-3h00 playtime on a full charge. On sand track, he used 92% battery in 1h32 min, as expected playtime decreases a lot in such conditions.

Then Electric cycle rider posted his "first ride in the US" (he rode it before at Stark MX track) and he'll probably soon dwelve more on battery testing.

You are right, They probably will lock the control to make it almost impossible to damage the battery by letting it get close to the dangerous temp level. 

 It would make for an exciting podium burnout though. 

Thanks again for taking the time to find and post these videos. I do not know much about the offroad terms so I will not be much of a help.  Dirt Rider  or Dirtbike Magazine had  a feature I remember as a kid , where they had an article with off-road terms and definitions . I'm sure there is something online that somebody could point you towards. 

That is pretty good runtime if he is a fast rider in the woods. And no matter what his speed is, it's still some good info to give people an idea of what to expect in the trails.  I'll have to watch the videos.   

You beat me in putting that up by about an hour!

I stumble upon the Enduro Enforcer YouTube a few weeks ago.

That 1st (of the 3+) 'tests' , and, the "Hard Enduro Test"  Track one, pretty much  reflects my local riding. I can go out all day on my CRE500 (the 'all day' includes a Lot of trail maintenance - the others who use the single track, especially the MTBers, do bugger all - the MTBers also  just leaving so much garbage in their wake it's infuriating) , using only about 6 liters of fuel. The other 2 "Enduro Tests" reflect also a bit of my riding.

His results hold well for what I'd want, and, I'd probably get better Kms and time, as I'd need only around a 40hp setting for my terrain, given that the Torque is / could / can?  be set so high low down.

I'd say by the time I get my new knees, hips, shoulders and back worked on, there'll be other full sized, non toy E bikes from a few manufacturers.

Now, I can be pretty 'stealth' on my old 500, what with my 26" long muffler, and full chamber coverage, And with the lack of revs needed for my riding on the old Torque Monster, it's pretty bloody quiet. But  it's the relative / near complete silence from a E bike that will be the ticket for my continued riding, locally. Well, that and the lack of 2 stroke smoke (though, it puts out bugger all) that so upsets some.....

Our demos arrived

Thats great Keinz! Love it!

I do wonder, without having looked at the model in detail, if Stark sells directly to consumer, do dealers get them at a discount and then can add some services/value on top or what is the business for dealers? Cannot only be goodwill, right?

Does it run or just display? 

The percentage that can go flat out for 35 minutes is way less than 1%. Do you not watch MX and see all the guys in the fast 40 rolling around caused they are gassed, not the bike?  Yes they can smoke my ass just rolling around but the EGO trip of posters on this board is astounding thinking that battery life would change any of their current riding activity.