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Again and again people ignore there is much student aid and grants for poor people as well. Income prevents nobody from going to college in this country. Loan forgiveness is for the people too wealthy to get student aid, not smart enough to get a good paying degree, and not enough foresight to recognize tomorrow's expenses.
Spoon guy what color spoon were you born with in your mouth? Can you see the ground from that high horse you're on?
No offense intended friend. I was born quite poor if it matters to you.
"Something must be wrong because we are agreeing"
Now I have to rethink my entire existence
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Father Guido Sarducci had it all figured out, long ago.
https://youtu.be/c00GPvns31U
What the actual fuq?
Is it just me or is this dude in dire need of a fucking mirror?
He's got a helluva lot more wrong with him than TDS.
Hell, maybe it's what they refer to as, long TDS.
It's funny watching him flip and flop around.
Makes a lot of noises, all of it indecipherable.
Perhaps the student loans are not the real problem but a symptom of a much larger problem. The financial illiteracy of most citizens of this country.
Joe Biden, I told you to stop talking. Seriously dude, you’re making yourself look worse with each letter you attempt to type. Not a good look.
until the gov stops printing money and we go back to sound money..expect more of this dystopian nonsense
Having a daughter go to college last year it was eye opening how predatory these colleges were recruiting kids. We were getting hard cover fully color books from schools promoting campus life and the “college experience”. Very little information about academics and nothing about career post college. It’s literally marketed like a spring break trip.
When it comes to paying tuition there is an option instead of paying you can automatically add it to a loan. There is zero information on the loan and what it will end up costing them. Colleges should be required to tell kids what their ROI is for their specific degree based on previous graduates at different time points.
If people feel like their loan should be forgiven they should be holding the school accountable, not the taxpayers.
Soooo spot on. Hold the university responsible not the tax payer.
TM
Good lord yes, hold anybody accept those that applied for the loans responsible. Lord knows young people shouldn't be prepared or made aware of predators to their progress. Let's make the world totally antiseptic to dangers for them. Despite the previous generation saving the world from facism, we should focus on protecting and isolating today's 18-45 year olds from responsibility and any danger. Whatever you do don't make them responsible for their decisions. Let's attack grandma and grandpa's saving so todays kids can "chase their dreams". Since the dawn of time predators have been tempting dipshit kids magic beans for the family cow. If these dumb asses don't waste their money on forensic science degrees it would be spring break, elaborate weddings/ honeymoons, good weed, cool concerts, or "finding themselves". Good lord, let's create perpetual cribs for extended childhoods where nobody pays property tax or any other responsibility until they suffer macular degeneration. Good grief. These poor kids/ young adults/ 40 somethings. So helpless.
Did someone piss in your cornflakes this week?
When a kid goes to school they pay money for a product. That product is an education. If the product is a lemon, there should be something called a breach of contract. A civil issue between the buyer and seller. We give loans to people to buy cars so they can get a job and pay for the car. If you buy a car and it's a lemon, it's between you and the dealer. The government does not wipe out your loan. Good God, where did you get such a resentment for other people that want to better themselves? I'm happy you did well but real successful people want educated kids because large companies need new talent to grow their company and wealth.
So the world doesn't need masons, electricians, plumbers, hivac techs, mechanics, and the thousands and thousands of other good paying jobs that don't need a degree? In my world there are tons of degreed people not able to find jobs in their field, and the majority of the trades are wanting for help desperately. My son is getting his doctorate in engineering soon and teaches, my daughter is a charge nurse in a cardiac ICU, both got through college on academic scholarships with no debt, they state often though what a scam college is for the majority of kids and their coworkers. You and I seem to agree on that point. Judging by enrollments, it seems kids are learning that as well. We seem to disagree on whose responsibility it is to pay for the mistakes made by others though. Thousands and thousands of times a day businessmen and women agree to contracts, if they misjudge their calculations it is their tough shit, and may cost them their business. Life is full of risks people take every day, financial decisions people make that are wrong, do you really think it is societies responsibility to pick and choose which bad decisions to support or fund? Do you really think people who have no student debt, never went to college, never had kids, are retired, veterans, or already employ people they are helping through college should help pay off loans for someone who flunked out of college and is living in mom's basement, chose to pay to live in a dorm rather than commute from home, or chose a college that was twice as expensive as another for the same degree? If not under what conditions do you propose paying off someone else's debt? Whose money do you propose taking to give to whom?
How about a more direct question, my kids got through college without debt. Do you think they should have to pay for other kid's debt? Yes or no?
Did anyone here suggest we didn't need trades people? Because your kids had their expenses paid by you is not indicative of "normal". Your son obviously has some smarts. If he grew up in the house next door without your resources, should he have been a plumber? Because he didn't have time to apply himself through high-school since he had to work a job? Your kids still incurred costs, those costs were just paid for by you.
In response to your "direct question" about something that's already been answered, I'll repost for your convenience,
"Disclosure, I was and am against student debt write off. I did however tell my kids do NOT pay on your loans this period because if they are going to hand out money to everyone else you may as well take it too p. Here's the thing, what makes you more valuable than a roofer that has the same struggles? Why should we give you $10k or $20k and not the roofer? What about the parent who worked the last 20 years to save and pay for their kid? Also, most of the money would be given to upper income families anyway. It's pretty disingenuous to argue student loans are bad and then still promote them. Convince me I'm wrong on that. If you want to claim you didn't get your money's worth, make the university refund your debt. They are the ones who took your money. Why should I pay for you? I already ponnied up a shit ton of hard earned $$s for the kids my wife and I brought into this world and call our own."
TM
Now, you answer, should your son have been a plumber because he didn't have your resources to pay his expenses?
family with 25,000 acres poor, or parents skipping meals so the chilren can eat poor?
Pit Row
I look at education, including vocational education, as an investment in our society. I think that we should be investing in apprenticeship programs as well as academic learning.
As for the question of whether someone who made it through college without debt should pay for someone else’s debt, I think that is a false perspective. I think that we should all help advance the education of our populace, just like those of us who may not have ever used the services of our local fire department help fund those departments for those who have needed them multiple times.
My kids have had jobs since they were 14, as did I. I have fatherless high school kids working for me grossing over a grand a week. Your notion that young people are powerless with out help from their parents displays your perspective of the topic.
Doesn't a large part of our tax money go to education now?
I don't know if my upbringing is germain to the topic, but your question is. If somebody had ever had any advantage in life it should be confiscated for the greater good because it is unfair is what you are implying. And the definition of advantage can be liquid and a moving target.
I see you conveniently avoided the question. Should your son have become a plumber had he not had your resources?
I'm not implying shit, and i'm not even posting about the original thread topic.
Earlier you said Bezos came from nothing, which he in fact, did not.
So when you say you also came from nothing, it raises some doubt.
Im just trying to better understand your definition of poor
Honestly if my kids didn't have scholarships, what is wrong with being a plumber? I am certain neither of my kids would have minded the trades. But they received scholarships and went to college. I am certain they would have chosen a trade if it meant no debt. Who knows, life brings twists, they still might.
How did we get to this notion plumbers didn't go to school after high school?
https://www.shamrockplumbing.net/2020/12/do-you-need-a-college-degree-t…
Any trade that pays well is going to be "skilled labor." Which generally means a trade school or 2 year program with some sort of apprenticeship.
So again, there's still student loans and debt that come from this.
We already do that in America…k-12 is “free” for any and all children.
Do you think Associates degrees should also be free? Bachelors? Masters? Doctorates? Why do you think “free” k-12 isn’t enough?
See, you didn't answer the question again. So I just have to call Bull Shit on everything you post.
You made it their choice what to do. You couldn't even answer the question and stay consistent with
your own drivel.
TM
I think community college is enough of the free. During that time period they can figure out which direction they want to go. But, if they've done decent marks in CC and need financial help to go further, (not free but help) we need to have a path forward. Our country will not be the super power we are in the future with and abundance of plumbers and a shortage of engineers. Why not incentivize a business to sponsor a kid (like Manny's company did), there are many solutions but right now we just give out money like candy. That has to stop. If we give a loan, what's the plan to pay it back? Why do we LET the colleges rip off the kids?
TM
That's the difficult part, where do we set the level at? Either way, it's going to be an arbitrary level. I don't have a hard and firm answer and obviously there should be some sort of requirement to make meaningful progress towards a finish of some kind.
I do think that there are areas of the arts and sciences, especially, that may not have as much financial upside as an MBA does but are very beneficial to society as a whole. In a 'perfect world' scenario, we would do the things we can to make those areas possible for study because of the benefits to society, even if they are harder to measure than your 401K balance, your toilet not being clogged, etc.
It's definitely not a topic that can be whittled down into a simple 'gotcha' question on a message board, that's for sure.
Post a reply to: Class Warfare