80hp Stark Varg Electric Dirtbike on the Dyno

mog
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6/5/2023 12:06am

A yzf 450 has about 32lbft at 7200rpm.

djr
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6/5/2023 1:37am

Okay, so the varg has more HP than a 450,

But the varg is also more heavy than a 450 ( even with "trick" inner tubes)

So if a pro rider was doing lap times, would the extra HP compensate for the extra weight , or would it just end up equal with a 450 ?

 

7
mx313
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6/5/2023 3:18am
djr wrote:
Okay, so the varg has more HP than a 450, But the varg is also more heavy than a 450 ( even with "trick" inner tubes)...

Okay, so the varg has more HP than a 450,

But the varg is also more heavy than a 450 ( even with "trick" inner tubes)

So if a pro rider was doing lap times, would the extra HP compensate for the extra weight , or would it just end up equal with a 450 ?

 

Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a 450

So all that extra power? Unless your pinned on a 450 it won't make any difference.

As for the highest level pro. It would probably be similar unless the power is much more user friendly.

No gears, no clutch. Would that make it harder thru corners, braking, ruts? It could make technical riding harder. It could make it easier. So that's where I think the main time will be made or lost.

3
mog
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6/5/2023 4:53am
djr wrote:
Okay, so the varg has more HP than a 450, But the varg is also more heavy than a 450 ( even with "trick" inner tubes)...

Okay, so the varg has more HP than a 450,

But the varg is also more heavy than a 450 ( even with "trick" inner tubes)

So if a pro rider was doing lap times, would the extra HP compensate for the extra weight , or would it just end up equal with a 450 ?

 

mx313 wrote:
Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a...

Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a 450

So all that extra power? Unless your pinned on a 450 it won't make any difference.

As for the highest level pro. It would probably be similar unless the power is much more user friendly.

No gears, no clutch. Would that make it harder thru corners, braking, ruts? It could make technical riding harder. It could make it easier. So that's where I think the main time will be made or lost.

In all the promotion videos the lap times for established media guys who are trusted to test all the other bikes , they saw a reduction of multiple seconds a lap 

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1

The Shop

mx313
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6/5/2023 5:16am
djr wrote:
Okay, so the varg has more HP than a 450, But the varg is also more heavy than a 450 ( even with "trick" inner tubes)...

Okay, so the varg has more HP than a 450,

But the varg is also more heavy than a 450 ( even with "trick" inner tubes)

So if a pro rider was doing lap times, would the extra HP compensate for the extra weight , or would it just end up equal with a 450 ?

 

mx313 wrote:
Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a...

Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a 450

So all that extra power? Unless your pinned on a 450 it won't make any difference.

As for the highest level pro. It would probably be similar unless the power is much more user friendly.

No gears, no clutch. Would that make it harder thru corners, braking, ruts? It could make technical riding harder. It could make it easier. So that's where I think the main time will be made or lost.

mog wrote:
In all the promotion videos the lap times for established media guys who are trusted to test all the other bikes , they saw a reduction...

In all the promotion videos the lap times for established media guys who are trusted to test all the other bikes , they saw a reduction of multiple seconds a lap 

OK...

So your telling me. In a stark promotion video they saw a reduction in lap time 🤯 what a surprise.

Also wasn't all the testing done at 1 place in a controlled test done by stark? From memory there was not ice bikes there for riders to compare it to. It was simply a stark launch. 

Not hating on the stark but your story sounds bs to me. And I would never believe any manufacturer saying this is how big the improvement is.

At the end of the day if I'm riding a track with a choppy straight I can do 40mph on Into a 15mph corner upto a 60ft jump. It doesn't matter if the bike can do 200 mph. You can only ride as fast as track conditions allow. And that doesn't matter if your a c vet or jett lawrence and that's why lap times between 250s and 450s are within a second.

1
11
davis224
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6/5/2023 5:25am
mx313 wrote:
Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a...

Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a 450

So all that extra power? Unless your pinned on a 450 it won't make any difference.

As for the highest level pro. It would probably be similar unless the power is much more user friendly.

No gears, no clutch. Would that make it harder thru corners, braking, ruts? It could make technical riding harder. It could make it easier. So that's where I think the main time will be made or lost.

mog wrote:
In all the promotion videos the lap times for established media guys who are trusted to test all the other bikes , they saw a reduction...

In all the promotion videos the lap times for established media guys who are trusted to test all the other bikes , they saw a reduction of multiple seconds a lap 

mx313 wrote:
OK... So your telling me. In a stark promotion video they saw a reduction in lap time 🤯 what a surprise. Also wasn't all the testing...

OK...

So your telling me. In a stark promotion video they saw a reduction in lap time 🤯 what a surprise.

Also wasn't all the testing done at 1 place in a controlled test done by stark? From memory there was not ice bikes there for riders to compare it to. It was simply a stark launch. 

Not hating on the stark but your story sounds bs to me. And I would never believe any manufacturer saying this is how big the improvement is.

At the end of the day if I'm riding a track with a choppy straight I can do 40mph on Into a 15mph corner upto a 60ft jump. It doesn't matter if the bike can do 200 mph. You can only ride as fast as track conditions allow. And that doesn't matter if your a c vet or jett lawrence and that's why lap times between 250s and 450s are within a second.

They had one of every brand 450 to use at the Stark media day if I remember correctly, a few people said they were faster on the 450 of their choice due to familiarity. It wasn't all ass kissing.

9
Brad460
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6/5/2023 5:51am

Results no surprise, but is anyone saying they need more HP than a 450?
 

Focus has to be on weight reduction and quicker charge times..

6
stremme12
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6/5/2023 5:53am
mx313 wrote:
Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a...

Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a 450

So all that extra power? Unless your pinned on a 450 it won't make any difference.

As for the highest level pro. It would probably be similar unless the power is much more user friendly.

No gears, no clutch. Would that make it harder thru corners, braking, ruts? It could make technical riding harder. It could make it easier. So that's where I think the main time will be made or lost.

mog wrote:
In all the promotion videos the lap times for established media guys who are trusted to test all the other bikes , they saw a reduction...

In all the promotion videos the lap times for established media guys who are trusted to test all the other bikes , they saw a reduction of multiple seconds a lap 

mx313 wrote:
OK... So your telling me. In a stark promotion video they saw a reduction in lap time 🤯 what a surprise. Also wasn't all the testing...

OK...

So your telling me. In a stark promotion video they saw a reduction in lap time 🤯 what a surprise.

Also wasn't all the testing done at 1 place in a controlled test done by stark? From memory there was not ice bikes there for riders to compare it to. It was simply a stark launch. 

Not hating on the stark but your story sounds bs to me. And I would never believe any manufacturer saying this is how big the improvement is.

At the end of the day if I'm riding a track with a choppy straight I can do 40mph on Into a 15mph corner upto a 60ft jump. It doesn't matter if the bike can do 200 mph. You can only ride as fast as track conditions allow. And that doesn't matter if your a c vet or jett lawrence and that's why lap times between 250s and 450s are within a second.

You said from memory so were you at the media day?

There was ICE bikes there for the media to ride as well. 

You have some crazy hot takes on this forum and not a lot seems to stick.

2
6/5/2023 6:00am
Brad460 wrote:

Results no surprise, but is anyone saying they need more HP than a 450?
 

Focus has to be on weight reduction and quicker charge times..

The bike is customizable from 10-80hp. Noone is going to ride on a motocross track with more than a 65hp setting imo. Its faster than a 450 at 60hp setting. The beauty of this bike is that it can be tailored for any rider. This dyno validates Stark's claim of up to 30% more peak power than a 450, but that's just one metric. In 80hp mode the bike has a lot more than +30% acceleration. 

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mxtech1
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6/5/2023 6:31am

The peak HP number is impressive, but the linearity of the power curve is a thing of beauty. 

Goldmember
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6/5/2023 6:38am

Stark claims 80 hp: reality18.5% less, giving 67.5 hp.

Stark claims a certain weight; bike comes in miles heavier.

Stark claims 17000 sold: still not a single average customer's bike in the wild, 19 months in.

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29
mog
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6/5/2023 9:35am

The usual trolls are here I see , they need a stark hating thread ....an

Stark said the bike would kill a 450 in power and it did ,and you can have any power from 10 to 80, try that on a 450....

Another claim verified 

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burn1986
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6/5/2023 9:35am Edited Date/Time 6/5/2023 9:47am

So it’s fast
 

 

1
6/5/2023 9:40am
mog wrote:
The usual trolls are here I see , they need a stark hating thread ....an Stark said the bike would kill a 450 in power and...

The usual trolls are here I see , they need a stark hating thread ....an

Stark said the bike would kill a 450 in power and it did ,and you can have any power from 10 to 80, try that on a 450....

Another claim verified 

You can stuff some rags in the air box and get it down a ways and it may still start. 

2
1
mog
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6/5/2023 9:40am
mx313 wrote:
Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a...

Everyone knows a 440 has to much power and a 250 is more then enough. And that a 250s lap time is as fast as a 450

So all that extra power? Unless your pinned on a 450 it won't make any difference.

As for the highest level pro. It would probably be similar unless the power is much more user friendly.

No gears, no clutch. Would that make it harder thru corners, braking, ruts? It could make technical riding harder. It could make it easier. So that's where I think the main time will be made or lost.

mog wrote:
In all the promotion videos the lap times for established media guys who are trusted to test all the other bikes , they saw a reduction...

In all the promotion videos the lap times for established media guys who are trusted to test all the other bikes , they saw a reduction of multiple seconds a lap 

mx313 wrote:
OK... So your telling me. In a stark promotion video they saw a reduction in lap time 🤯 what a surprise. Also wasn't all the testing...

OK...

So your telling me. In a stark promotion video they saw a reduction in lap time 🤯 what a surprise.

Also wasn't all the testing done at 1 place in a controlled test done by stark? From memory there was not ice bikes there for riders to compare it to. It was simply a stark launch. 

Not hating on the stark but your story sounds bs to me. And I would never believe any manufacturer saying this is how big the improvement is.

At the end of the day if I'm riding a track with a choppy straight I can do 40mph on Into a 15mph corner upto a 60ft jump. It doesn't matter if the bike can do 200 mph. You can only ride as fast as track conditions allow. And that doesn't matter if your a c vet or jett lawrence and that's why lap times between 250s and 450s are within a second.

No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of THEIR CHOICE 

If you are not trusting of their opinions you had better not read a single article in future as they had pretty much every major outlet bar mxa ...

No one doubted them if they said an ice brand made them faster 

It's a simple fact a bike with no clutch , no gears , good mapping , very low centre of gravity , no vibration will turn faster lap times than an ice bike with it's inherent flaws which are many 

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burn1986
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6/5/2023 9:55am
mog wrote:
No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of...

No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of THEIR CHOICE 

If you are not trusting of their opinions you had better not read a single article in future as they had pretty much every major outlet bar mxa ...

No one doubted them if they said an ice brand made them faster 

It's a simple fact a bike with no clutch , no gears , good mapping , very low centre of gravity , no vibration will turn faster lap times than an ice bike with it's inherent flaws which are many 

So it’s fast and performs well. We already know that. That’s good. No need to keep over hammering that point. You sound like you’re really getting worked up. 

9
djr
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6/5/2023 9:58am
mog wrote:
No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of...

No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of THEIR CHOICE 

If you are not trusting of their opinions you had better not read a single article in future as they had pretty much every major outlet bar mxa ...

No one doubted them if they said an ice brand made them faster 

It's a simple fact a bike with no clutch , no gears , good mapping , very low centre of gravity , no vibration will turn faster lap times than an ice bike with it's inherent flaws which are many 

So are you saying that they tested the stark against 450s on the same day, at the same track ?

And compared lap times ?

I must have missed that test , where can I find it , please ?

1
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mog
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6/5/2023 10:01am
mog wrote:
No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of...

No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of THEIR CHOICE 

If you are not trusting of their opinions you had better not read a single article in future as they had pretty much every major outlet bar mxa ...

No one doubted them if they said an ice brand made them faster 

It's a simple fact a bike with no clutch , no gears , good mapping , very low centre of gravity , no vibration will turn faster lap times than an ice bike with it's inherent flaws which are many 

burn1986 wrote:
So it’s fast and performs well. We already know that. That’s good. No need to keep over hammering that point. You sound like you’re really getting...

So it’s fast and performs well. We already know that. That’s good. No need to keep over hammering that point. You sound like you’re really getting worked up. 

Nope just setting the record straight , very calm here 

No need to reply any further , can chat about the Dyno ,it's unlike any mxbike ever made , the most hp and the most tunable , from a company that's never made a single motorcycle ever.... 

Simply astonishing 

8
4
6/5/2023 10:05am
mog wrote:
No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of...

No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of THEIR CHOICE 

If you are not trusting of their opinions you had better not read a single article in future as they had pretty much every major outlet bar mxa ...

No one doubted them if they said an ice brand made them faster 

It's a simple fact a bike with no clutch , no gears , good mapping , very low centre of gravity , no vibration will turn faster lap times than an ice bike with it's inherent flaws which are many 

djr wrote:
So are you saying that they tested the stark against 450s on the same day, at the same track ? And compared lap times ? I...

So are you saying that they tested the stark against 450s on the same day, at the same track ?

And compared lap times ?

I must have missed that test , where can I find it , please ?

Yeah, the same media test day that you are referring to.  In fact they had an active pro MX racer from England who races an FC 450 there.  He turned 3 laps on a stock FC 450, then got on the Varg and was seconds a lap faster on it.

5
burn1986
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6/5/2023 10:06am
mog wrote:
Nope just setting the record straight , very calm here  No need to reply any further , can chat about the Dyno ,it's unlike any mxbike...

Nope just setting the record straight , very calm here 

No need to reply any further , can chat about the Dyno ,it's unlike any mxbike ever made , the most hp and the most tunable , from a company that's never made a single motorcycle ever.... 

Simply astonishing 

Astonishing? Everything you said was good until that. 
Look, this is Bryan’s little expensive project. And yeah it’s cool, no doubt. Glad for him. 
But some if you guys have like a weird crusader-type pressure or something “off”.

 

1
10
6/5/2023 10:08am Edited Date/Time 6/5/2023 10:09am
mog wrote:
No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of...

No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of THEIR CHOICE 

If you are not trusting of their opinions you had better not read a single article in future as they had pretty much every major outlet bar mxa ...

No one doubted them if they said an ice brand made them faster 

It's a simple fact a bike with no clutch , no gears , good mapping , very low centre of gravity , no vibration will turn faster lap times than an ice bike with it's inherent flaws which are many 

djr wrote:
So are you saying that they tested the stark against 450s on the same day, at the same track ? And compared lap times ? I...

So are you saying that they tested the stark against 450s on the same day, at the same track ?

And compared lap times ?

I must have missed that test , where can I find it , please ?

https://www.cyclenews.com/2022/10/article/stark-varg-review/

That was the first one that popped up. That was the setup for all the media intros they did last year I think. So you can probably pick any outlet and see what they thought back to back.
 

Bold statement, no other manufacturer is gonna have all the other bikes there to ride back to back at an intro. 

1
1
mog
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6/5/2023 10:12am
mog wrote:
Nope just setting the record straight , very calm here  No need to reply any further , can chat about the Dyno ,it's unlike any mxbike...

Nope just setting the record straight , very calm here 

No need to reply any further , can chat about the Dyno ,it's unlike any mxbike ever made , the most hp and the most tunable , from a company that's never made a single motorcycle ever.... 

Simply astonishing 

burn1986 wrote:
Astonishing? Everything you said was good until that.  Look, this is Bryan’s little expensive project. And yeah it’s cool, no doubt. Glad for him.  But some...

Astonishing? Everything you said was good until that. 
Look, this is Bryan’s little expensive project. And yeah it’s cool, no doubt. Glad for him. 
But some if you guys have like a weird crusader-type pressure or something “off”.

 

It is truly astonishing yes , double the torque at almost half the revs if the very powerful yzf 450 

And you can detune it to 10hp 

What word words  would you prefer ? 

Amazing , incredible, unreal , next to impossible...

A yzf has gained a few hp in 10 years , the stark made it look weak ...

 

As Bryan said you can set it to10 hp for a novice and 80hp for a pro , astonishing yes 

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6
6/5/2023 10:13am Edited Date/Time 6/5/2023 12:54pm
https://www.cyclenews.com/2022/10/article/stark-varg-review/ That was the first one that popped up. That was the setup for all the media intros they did last year I think. So you...

https://www.cyclenews.com/2022/10/article/stark-varg-review/

That was the first one that popped up. That was the setup for all the media intros they did last year I think. So you can probably pick any outlet and see what they thought back to back.
 

Bold statement, no other manufacturer is gonna have all the other bikes there to ride back to back at an intro. 

Test rider roundtable of ride day.  Comparisons with all the gas bikes at about 51 min mark:

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1
6/5/2023 10:16am
Goldmember wrote:
Stark claims 80 hp: reality18.5% less, giving 67.5 hp. Stark claims a certain weight; bike comes in miles heavier. Stark claims 17000 sold: still not a...

Stark claims 80 hp: reality18.5% less, giving 67.5 hp.

Stark claims a certain weight; bike comes in miles heavier.

Stark claims 17000 sold: still not a single average customer's bike in the wild, 19 months in.

You should know that getting the same number on  any 2 different dynos is unlikely , and did they claim that number measured in a specific way? With UTV's manufactures will put out claimed HP ratings. And those are  based off the power at the crank before drivetrain loss. I do not remember seeing HP numbers for MX bikes other than when they get dynoed during a test. If they did state HP I'm guessing they would go off the crank like Honda, Kawasaki,Yamaha, etc. do with UTV's.  So  it would make sense for Stark to also state the HP before the drivetrain.  Somebody was saying that Stark has a claimed torque # at the rear wheel. If that comes back way off then I'll give you that. 

 

The weight change is somewhat a valid argument. 

 

As far as the # sold. I do not think they have used the term "sold". Pre orders , or deposits . And really  there is not anything saying they did not "sell" the number claimed either. 

 

And we can come back around to their claim of making the best MX bike.  as far as power and controlling the power. I think it is clear that the Varg is the best at that . You might not be able to get the long runtime that would bring it to Goldmember approved standards yet. But  look at cordless tools from  20 years ago VS 10 years ago, and then today. By the time Kawasaki is all electric I bet they will have a way around the range and or charging speeds. 

Or maybe if the bikes are a lot better , and more people want to ride them VS gas bikes. Maybe they have classes tailored to electric.  SX has the triple crown style  races. And 2 bikes are allowed for those. You  could probably run a triple crown style race with a top pro and 2 Vargs. 

2
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Brad460
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6/5/2023 10:25am
The bike is customizable from 10-80hp. Noone is going to ride on a motocross track with more than a 65hp setting imo. Its faster than a...

The bike is customizable from 10-80hp. Noone is going to ride on a motocross track with more than a 65hp setting imo. Its faster than a 450 at 60hp setting. The beauty of this bike is that it can be tailored for any rider. This dyno validates Stark's claim of up to 30% more peak power than a 450, but that's just one metric. In 80hp mode the bike has a lot more than +30% acceleration. 

Yes for sure aware of this..my thinking (for example) was could the motor be smaller (less weight) by spec-ing it for max 60hp? Or is a 60HP motor the same size as a 80 HP motor? 

1
LungButter
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6/5/2023 10:28am
Goldmember wrote:
Stark claims 80 hp: reality18.5% less, giving 67.5 hp. Stark claims a certain weight; bike comes in miles heavier. Stark claims 17000 sold: still not a...

Stark claims 80 hp: reality18.5% less, giving 67.5 hp.

Stark claims a certain weight; bike comes in miles heavier.

Stark claims 17000 sold: still not a single average customer's bike in the wild, 19 months in.

I must say, I admire your commitment to waste huge amounts of your life shit talking a bike that has absolutely zero affect on your life.

It's admirable to find a cause and stick with it, keep it up little buddy.....

5
6/5/2023 10:31am
mog wrote:
No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of...

No I am telling you that all the people you trust to test ice bikes said themselves that lap times were less against the 450 of THEIR CHOICE 

If you are not trusting of their opinions you had better not read a single article in future as they had pretty much every major outlet bar mxa ...

No one doubted them if they said an ice brand made them faster 

It's a simple fact a bike with no clutch , no gears , good mapping , very low centre of gravity , no vibration will turn faster lap times than an ice bike with it's inherent flaws which are many 

djr wrote:
So are you saying that they tested the stark against 450s on the same day, at the same track ? And compared lap times ? I...

So are you saying that they tested the stark against 450s on the same day, at the same track ?

And compared lap times ?

I must have missed that test , where can I find it , please ?

Yeah, the same media test day that you are referring to.  In fact they had an active pro MX racer from England who races an FC...

Yeah, the same media test day that you are referring to.  In fact they had an active pro MX racer from England who races an FC 450 there.  He turned 3 laps on a stock FC 450, then got on the Varg and was seconds a lap faster on it.

That was one of the things that stuck out to me. How a rider was faster quickly on a bike he had never ridden VS one of the same brand that he has been racing.  Even if he was the same speed , it would have shown the Varg is a great bike.  It sounds like there is a learning curve with jumping  and I'm sure other things. To me it makes it more impressive that a majority of riders were faster on the Varg than the ICE bikes.  Even given that they may have picked a track that gave the varg an advantage. It just shows that there are tracks that would favor a Varg. 

On the last Gypsy Tales that Anton was on , he was talking about how fast they will be able to build the bikes when they can run the assembly line at full speed. I can not remember an exact # but it was pretty impressive. I am hopeful that day comes soon. 

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mog
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6/5/2023 10:33am
The bike is customizable from 10-80hp. Noone is going to ride on a motocross track with more than a 65hp setting imo. Its faster than a...

The bike is customizable from 10-80hp. Noone is going to ride on a motocross track with more than a 65hp setting imo. Its faster than a 450 at 60hp setting. The beauty of this bike is that it can be tailored for any rider. This dyno validates Stark's claim of up to 30% more peak power than a 450, but that's just one metric. In 80hp mode the bike has a lot more than +30% acceleration. 

Brad460 wrote:
Yes for sure aware of this..my thinking (for example) was could the motor be smaller (less weight) by spec-ing it for max 60hp? Or is a...

Yes for sure aware of this..my thinking (for example) was could the motor be smaller (less weight) by spec-ing it for max 60hp? Or is a 60HP motor the same size as a 80 HP motor? 

Same ,it's software only 

It's the battery that's the real weight , but solid state battieries are starting to be produced , they have double the capacity, and much reduced charging times 

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davis224
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6/5/2023 10:34am
The bike is customizable from 10-80hp. Noone is going to ride on a motocross track with more than a 65hp setting imo. Its faster than a...

The bike is customizable from 10-80hp. Noone is going to ride on a motocross track with more than a 65hp setting imo. Its faster than a 450 at 60hp setting. The beauty of this bike is that it can be tailored for any rider. This dyno validates Stark's claim of up to 30% more peak power than a 450, but that's just one metric. In 80hp mode the bike has a lot more than +30% acceleration. 

Brad460 wrote:
Yes for sure aware of this..my thinking (for example) was could the motor be smaller (less weight) by spec-ing it for max 60hp? Or is a...

Yes for sure aware of this..my thinking (for example) was could the motor be smaller (less weight) by spec-ing it for max 60hp? Or is a 60HP motor the same size as a 80 HP motor? 

This was my main question too, hoping I could get the 80 hp model and set it to 50 for even more life, but apparently the only difference is firmware, same motor/battery in each.

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