Brand quality

yz133rider
Posts
5029
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA, USA
6/3/2023 6:24am

So many of these ratings are so far off what I’ve seen.

 

stop listening to mags and use your actual eyes.

 

although I’ve seen countless people at the track use pipe wrenches on axle nuts and I’ve even seen people tighten the axles by standing on the ratchets. Not loosening, tightening. Like good lord we need to tighten to 200lb ft now?

 

So yeah “this bike sucks junk fasteners” meanwhile using a pipe wrench and standing on the ratchet lololol

5
StillSmokin
Posts
739
Joined
3/18/2022
Location
Edmond, OK, USA
6/3/2023 6:56am Edited Date/Time 6/3/2023 6:56am
yz133rider wrote:
So many of these ratings are so far off what I’ve seen.   stop listening to mags and use your actual eyes.   although I’ve seen...

So many of these ratings are so far off what I’ve seen.

 

stop listening to mags and use your actual eyes.

 

although I’ve seen countless people at the track use pipe wrenches on axle nuts and I’ve even seen people tighten the axles by standing on the ratchets. Not loosening, tightening. Like good lord we need to tighten to 200lb ft now?

 

So yeah “this bike sucks junk fasteners” meanwhile using a pipe wrench and standing on the ratchet lololol

Most these guys are using harbor freight torque wrenches anyways. $10k bikes maintained with a fisher price tool kit.

7
lumpy790
Posts
11631
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC, USA
6/3/2023 9:16am

I had my foot calibrated so its all good.

5
Titan1
Posts
9437
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2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
6/3/2023 9:49am Edited Date/Time 6/3/2023 12:46pm
Muzzle wrote:
I have a 2006 KTM 450 EXC with I don't know how many hours are on it now, but it's a lot! Still running the stock...

I have a 2006 KTM 450 EXC with I don't know how many hours are on it now, but it's a lot! Still running the stock clutch and I haven't adjusted the valves since I rebuilt the top end 8 years ago. it just won't die. Now fork seals and countershaft seals are another matter, lol.

That bike has to have 300 hours on it…you’ve definitely gotten your moneys worth out of that motor…But…we can’t ignore the fact that I pushed/pulled it uphill out of Hobble creek…is that weak engine cases or rider error?  Haha

The Shop

Muzzle
Posts
189
Joined
6/20/2013
Location
Vernal, UT, USA
Fantasy
6/3/2023 12:24pm
Muzzle wrote:
I have a 2006 KTM 450 EXC with I don't know how many hours are on it now, but it's a lot! Still running the stock...

I have a 2006 KTM 450 EXC with I don't know how many hours are on it now, but it's a lot! Still running the stock clutch and I haven't adjusted the valves since I rebuilt the top end 8 years ago. it just won't die. Now fork seals and countershaft seals are another matter, lol.

Titan1 wrote:
That bike has to have 300 hours on it…you’ve definitely gotten your moneys worth out of that motor…But…we can’t ignore the fact that I pushed/pulled it...

That bike has to have 300 hours on it…you’ve definitely gotten your moneys worth out of that motor…But…we can’t ignore the fact that I pushed/pulled it uphill out of Hobble creek…is that weak engine cases or rider error?  Haha

Hahaha, definitely rider error. You needed the exercise!

sandtrack315
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2850
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Location
Philadelphia, PA, USA
6/3/2023 12:39pm

Honda, Yamaha, everyone else, Kawasaki 

6
Austin_Rankin
Posts
1119
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9/3/2019
Location
Georgetown, KY, USA
6/3/2023 4:31pm
CASH476 wrote:

Mate, you must be getting around with blinkers on if that's the case. 

ehhh fuk it who cares.... i just opened my 3rd modelo...

2
1
Austin_Rankin
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Location
Georgetown, KY, USA
6/3/2023 4:34pm

sorry guys. i just now realized most of you replying to my ktm with 100s of hours comment and my jap bike not making it to the 100 hour mark are all people that dont ride mx that hard in the most demanding of condistions.....

 

i was speaking of National B level or Local A level talent on the bikes.... not grandad of two and grandson is on the pw 50 ....

2
10
Austin_Rankin
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Location
Georgetown, KY, USA
6/3/2023 4:34pm
yz133rider wrote:
So many of these ratings are so far off what I’ve seen.   stop listening to mags and use your actual eyes.   although I’ve seen...

So many of these ratings are so far off what I’ve seen.

 

stop listening to mags and use your actual eyes.

 

although I’ve seen countless people at the track use pipe wrenches on axle nuts and I’ve even seen people tighten the axles by standing on the ratchets. Not loosening, tightening. Like good lord we need to tighten to 200lb ft now?

 

So yeah “this bike sucks junk fasteners” meanwhile using a pipe wrench and standing on the ratchet lololol

exactly right dude....

 

"just rebuilt using wisco piston and crank and tusk gaskets" lmfao

 

6
6/3/2023 5:51pm
sorry guys. i just now realized most of you replying to my ktm with 100s of hours comment and my jap bike not making it to...

sorry guys. i just now realized most of you replying to my ktm with 100s of hours comment and my jap bike not making it to the 100 hour mark are all people that dont ride mx that hard in the most demanding of condistions.....

 

i was speaking of National B level or Local A level talent on the bikes.... not grandad of two and grandson is on the pw 50 ....

You sound like a guy who owns all the KTM power parts, including the toaster.

8
Spoonguy
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Location
Mc Kean, PA, USA
6/3/2023 6:19pm

I am a grand dad of two. Been riding Austrian bikes for decades as my main bikes. Own Japanese bikes as well, ride street too, BMWs mostly on the street. Of course my fastest days are behind me, but I still ride 250 single track hours a year at least. As far as reliability, if I am going 100 single track miles from camp and back, I take the Austrian two stroke... no question. If I want a bike one grand less expensive, I think of a Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, but of course they are shit. There is always inground pool people, and above ground pool white trash shit bags looking to save $500 so they don't have to work overtime. Always been, always will be. You want a trailer, pop up, or a motorhome, most can't handle the sacrifice regardless of what they want. Shame, of course there is always Korean and Chinese scooters too for those that don't or can't handle earning more money.

17
Titan1
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Location
Lehi, UT, USA
6/3/2023 7:03pm
sorry guys. i just now realized most of you replying to my ktm with 100s of hours comment and my jap bike not making it to...

sorry guys. i just now realized most of you replying to my ktm with 100s of hours comment and my jap bike not making it to the 100 hour mark are all people that dont ride mx that hard in the most demanding of condistions.....

 

i was speaking of National B level or Local A level talent on the bikes.... not grandad of two and grandson is on the pw 50 ....

🤦‍♂️

6/3/2023 7:04pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2023 7:05pm

Got 120 hours on my ktm mx bike and 300 on my off-road bike. No issues. Original clutch in both. Your mileage may vary

Hammer 663s
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Forest Grove, OR, USA
6/3/2023 8:45pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2023 8:49pm
lumpy790 wrote:

I had my foot calibrated so its all good.

I can torque a KTM rear axle nut within +/- 5 ft lbs with my foot, and usually tighter. I’ve won bets doing that. We are on Austrian bike #8 or so. They are pretty solid. 

1
1
spimx
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Port Isabel, TX, USA
6/3/2023 9:15pm

Yamaha over Honda, Kawi is a better brand than they get credit for. KTM is a great bike but definitely more likely to break. Triumphs are shit quality, Ricky is making a big mistake 

3
3
Richy
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UK, GB
6/4/2023 2:37am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2023 2:38am

Thanks for the continued opinion, from almost everyone in here at least 👍 In the back of my mind, I think I was kind of hoping Kawasaki were more solid nowadays.

Not to totally detail the thread, but has anyone got any specific input on the most recent gen of KX besides chain guides?

wildbill
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Christmas Valley, OR, USA
6/4/2023 7:24am

My 1980 Suzuki PE 175's frame broke in 11 places, good thing I could weld. Had a bottoming cone in my 89 CR 500 break. This caused me to have to race my friends KTM 360 that day. Making it the only KTM I've ever ridden. Weird power band but, It didn't break. 99 Yamaha YZ 400 footpeg mount broke clean, right off of the frame. See previous weld comment. 

RACERX69
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1168
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Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
6/4/2023 8:14am
TeamGreen wrote:
The funniest part is that some of us know all to well that EVERY brand has had good and bad years…good and bad models.  I’ve been...

The funniest part is that some of us know all to well that EVERY brand has had good and bad years…good and bad models. 

I’ve been fortunate enough to have bikes prepped by pros like you and your friends in the paddock. No matter what brand of bike, who preps and who knows all the little set-up and funny little tuning tricks can make ANY bike awesome.

Here’s the BEST bikes out of the crate that I’ve had over the years are…stand out bikes…

1980 CR125, 1983 CR125, 2019 CRF450X

1989 KX125, 1991 KDX200, 2022 KLR650 

1977 RD400, 1981 YZ125, 1998 WR400

2003 DR400, 2007 RM125, 2018 RMZ450

2013 450SX-F, 2019 450SX-F

2015 FE350S

 

81’ YZ-125??!!

Dayum Team Green, that’s the first time I’ve ever read anything positive about an 81’ YZ-125. Smile

3
Hcallz5
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3279
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Location
USA
6/4/2023 10:21am

Dude on IG recently posted his 2018 250xc with 587 hours and hadn't been into the bottom end. Seems pretty durable to me.

3
6/4/2023 10:27am
Tyler D wrote:

KTMs are made out of potmetal. hondas and yamahas are best. 

Here we go again, ancient Asian vs German metal technology. 
 

While the best pan used to be Japan, until just recently Honda hasn’t been able to wok-the-wok. 

Richy
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3093
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Location
UK, GB
6/4/2023 10:41am
Hcallz5 wrote:

Dude on IG recently posted his 2018 250xc with 587 hours and hadn't been into the bottom end. Seems pretty durable to me.

A lot of the off road/enduro folks seem to have mega hours on the Euro bikes don't they.

Seen some fast homies (off road A dudes and the like) on here and thumper talk who are a couple hundred hours deep on their 350s without even rings or a valve adjustment?

I know every brand has it's good and bad, and every factory has the odd Friday afternoon bike or random low hour horror story, but the ratio of good:bad does seem pretty good for the Euro bikes.

1
Tyler D
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2396
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12/5/2022
Location
La, CA, USA
6/4/2023 10:42am
Tyler D wrote:

KTMs are made out of potmetal. hondas and yamahas are best. 

Here we go again, ancient Asian vs German metal technology.    While the best pan used to be Japan, until just recently Honda hasn’t been able...

Here we go again, ancient Asian vs German metal technology. 
 

While the best pan used to be Japan, until just recently Honda hasn’t been able to wok-the-wok. 

Ability and execution are two different things. Ktm intentionally cuts corners for reasons of weight and margins. Again, maybe the critical parts are equal or better (e.g. valve seats), but they half ass some stuff. 

1
3
6/4/2023 11:04am
Tyler D wrote:

KTMs are made out of potmetal. hondas and yamahas are best. 

Here we go again, ancient Asian vs German metal technology.    While the best pan used to be Japan, until just recently Honda hasn’t been able...

Here we go again, ancient Asian vs German metal technology. 
 

While the best pan used to be Japan, until just recently Honda hasn’t been able to wok-the-wok. 

Tyler D wrote:
Ability and execution are two different things. Ktm intentionally cuts corners for reasons of weight and margins. Again, maybe the critical parts are equal or better...

Ability and execution are two different things. Ktm intentionally cuts corners for reasons of weight and margins. Again, maybe the critical parts are equal or better (e.g. valve seats), but they half ass some stuff. 

I have been impressed with everything on my KTMs since I got off Yamahas and kawis in 09. Are there any specific examples you have?

1
TeamGreen
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37280
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Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
6/4/2023 11:07am
TeamGreen wrote:
The funniest part is that some of us know all to well that EVERY brand has had good and bad years…good and bad models.  I’ve been...

The funniest part is that some of us know all to well that EVERY brand has had good and bad years…good and bad models. 

I’ve been fortunate enough to have bikes prepped by pros like you and your friends in the paddock. No matter what brand of bike, who preps and who knows all the little set-up and funny little tuning tricks can make ANY bike awesome.

Here’s the BEST bikes out of the crate that I’ve had over the years are…stand out bikes…

1980 CR125, 1983 CR125, 2019 CRF450X

1989 KX125, 1991 KDX200, 2022 KLR650 

1977 RD400, 1981 YZ125, 1998 WR400

2003 DR400, 2007 RM125, 2018 RMZ450

2013 450SX-F, 2019 450SX-F

2015 FE350S

 

RACERX69 wrote:

81’ YZ-125??!!

Dayum Team Green, that’s the first time I’ve ever read anything positive about an 81’ YZ-125. Smile

Out of the crate it WORKED. In the long run, the front down-tubes would crack where they split over pipe/exhaust port and the frames failed on a few occasions. If Magoo’s dad or Jon Stoodley were around…? You’d be up and running in a flash. 

The ‘82 “Mono-Cross” model, to me, was a PIG. Laughing

1
ge217
Posts
785
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12/4/2013
Location
Vero Beach, FL, USA
6/4/2023 12:10pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2023 2:52pm
Titan1 wrote:
I’ve put 100 hours on my last two yz450fx’s with no issues at all (never did anything but regular maintenance: oil, oil filter, air filters, tires)...

I’ve put 100 hours on my last two yz450fx’s with no issues at all (never did anything but regular maintenance: oil, oil filter, air filters, tires).

 

I’ve got 60 hours on my current 450fx with no issues.  (A broken ankle which keep me off the bike for almost a year is the only reason it doesn’t have more hours on it…but I’ll be getting a 24 450fx when the 23 YZ changes get to the FX no matter how many hours are on it). 

Last new Yamaha I had grenaded on the face of a jump at LL in 2000, was two weeks old, rode it twice prior to LL. Fast forward 23 years I still wouldn’t think about owning on YZ bc of the frames breaking. One of the most recent photos on vital of a Yz frame breaking is a neighbor of mine.

Ive owned about 17 kx450’s during the years of 2006-2016

Kx450’s 2006-2008 

25 hours tops for me before 1 of 3 things.

1) parked bike at 25 hours and saved the cases

2) have one of the cases crack from case tolerance being too tight for main bearing.

3) completely grenade the engine  

Kx450’s 2009-2016 

Almost everyone, piston would crack right at 50 hours, if piston didn’t crack, everything was maxed out on tolerance. Except for valves. I’ve never had a valve problem, on any bike. My last kx, a 2016, took it to 80 hours from off the showroom, I’m glad I tore it apart and didn’t ride it one more time. Piston was cracking on top and cracking around piston pin. Frame also cracked on the neck, about 6 inches down the middle of a weld. Sold the bike right after that. Almost every race I needed a new clutch.
 

Rmz 450’s 2018-2019, I’ve owned 4 of these 450’s 
 
First one I took to 50 hours and head gasket blew. Replaced top end and sold. Second one went to 50 hours and got sold. This bike had demons starting at 40 hours.  Third bike went to 25 hours before spiting the rod in half and shooting it out the cases. Forth one got sold at 23ish hours. Same with kawi, needed a clutch just about every race. 
 

Ktm 350’s 2020 and 2021.

Both had right at 70 hours on them when sold. I only put a clutch in one of them, bc I went to a National enduro. The 21, I had the oil screen filter cap fall off. Locked the engine up from lack of oil on cams. That bike is still going today on all original parts. Cleaned cam journal and everything was good. Put close to 30 hours on it after that.

I just currently got off a 2020 ktm450, I picked it up used at 28 hours (personal friends with original owner), currently has  63.1 hours on original everything engine wise. Just oil and oil filter changes only. 

My newest bike I will be riding next is 23 ktm 450 that as 27.2 hours on it. This will probably be the first bike I take to/past 100 hour mark. 


 

4
1
Richy
Posts
3093
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7/18/2020
Location
UK, GB
6/4/2023 1:16pm
Titan1 wrote:
I’ve put 100 hours on my last two yz450fx’s with no issues at all (never did anything but regular maintenance: oil, oil filter, air filters, tires)...

I’ve put 100 hours on my last two yz450fx’s with no issues at all (never did anything but regular maintenance: oil, oil filter, air filters, tires).

 

I’ve got 60 hours on my current 450fx with no issues.  (A broken ankle which keep me off the bike for almost a year is the only reason it doesn’t have more hours on it…but I’ll be getting a 24 450fx when the 23 YZ changes get to the FX no matter how many hours are on it). 

ge217 wrote:
Last new Yamaha I had grenaded on the face of a jump at LL in 2000, was two weeks old, rode it twice prior to LL...

Last new Yamaha I had grenaded on the face of a jump at LL in 2000, was two weeks old, rode it twice prior to LL. Fast forward 23 years I still wouldn’t think about owning on YZ bc of the frames breaking. One of the most recent photos on vital of a Yz frame breaking is a neighbor of mine.

Ive owned about 17 kx450’s during the years of 2006-2016

Kx450’s 2006-2008 

25 hours tops for me before 1 of 3 things.

1) parked bike at 25 hours and saved the cases

2) have one of the cases crack from case tolerance being too tight for main bearing.

3) completely grenade the engine  

Kx450’s 2009-2016 

Almost everyone, piston would crack right at 50 hours, if piston didn’t crack, everything was maxed out on tolerance. Except for valves. I’ve never had a valve problem, on any bike. My last kx, a 2016, took it to 80 hours from off the showroom, I’m glad I tore it apart and didn’t ride it one more time. Piston was cracking on top and cracking around piston pin. Frame also cracked on the neck, about 6 inches down the middle of a weld. Sold the bike right after that. Almost every race I needed a new clutch.
 

Rmz 450’s 2018-2019, I’ve owned 4 of these 450’s 
 
First one I took to 50 hours and head gasket blew. Replaced top end and sold. Second one went to 50 hours and got sold. This bike had demons starting at 40 hours.  Third bike went to 25 hours before spiting the rod in half and shooting it out the cases. Forth one got sold at 23ish hours. Same with kawi, needed a clutch just about every race. 
 

Ktm 350’s 2020 and 2021.

Both had right at 70 hours on them when sold. I only put a clutch in one of them, bc I went to a National enduro. The 21, I had the oil screen filter cap fall off. Locked the engine up from lack of oil on cams. That bike is still going today on all original parts. Cleaned cam journal and everything was good. Put close to 30 hours on it after that.

I just currently got off a 2020 ktm450, I picked it up used at 28 hours (personal friends with original owner), currently has  63.1 hours on original everything engine wise. Just oil and oil filter changes only. 

My newest bike I will be riding next is 23 ktm 450 that as 27.2 hours on it. This will probably be the first bike I take to/past 100 hour mark. 


 

Solid info, I appreciate the thorough breakdown, thanks 👍

Sounds like you are, incomparably, faster than me and my 350 is only on 61 hours now, so happy days.

I'm gonna go 250F next so I can ring a bike out, and as I've not had one before, and as I ride a few super twisty or smaller tracks among others.

I figure as I am and will remain a goon, it'll be more fun riding a "slow" bike "fast", than riding a fast bike slow, and the 250 engine size opens things up to the other manufacturers. Sounds like I'll take a GasGas next time round.

1
Darrin Willis
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1105
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11/16/2020
Location
Red Deer County, AB, CA
6/4/2023 5:44pm

I ride Austrian now after 20 years of yz and yzfs. Only issue I've had on any of my bikes is a broken rod on a 15 yz250f. 140 mx hrs on my 19 350. Top end done at 80 hrs. I will ride this bike until about 160 hrs and sell. Original clutch still! I also ride and race a 300 and 150. Both moto and haresrambles.  I have riding buddies with 400hrs on 300s. Nothing but a topend. Guys are gnarly riders and getting 150 hrs out of clutches. Yes im now drinking orange coolaid. 

1
Gator 4
Posts
340
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12/31/2021
Location
Southern California, CA, USA
6/4/2023 6:51pm

Interesting read.  I had the impression KTM's were not that reliable and have steered away from them.  Seems they are mostly supported on this thread.  I have a 2007 Honda CR125 with over 500 hours on the clock.  So I know they are built well and engineered well/easy to work on.

1
wildbill
Posts
4382
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Christmas Valley, OR, USA
6/4/2023 9:11pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Out of the crate it WORKED. In the long run, the front down-tubes would crack where they split over pipe/exhaust port and the frames failed on...

Out of the crate it WORKED. In the long run, the front down-tubes would crack where they split over pipe/exhaust port and the frames failed on a few occasions. If Magoo’s dad or Jon Stoodley were around…? You’d be up and running in a flash. 

The ‘82 “Mono-Cross” model, to me, was a PIG. Laughing

I had an 82 YZ 490. The thing felt too long and didn't even handle as well as a shopping cart. Although, even with its 4 speed, it hillclimbed like a mofo.

6/4/2023 9:40pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2023 9:41pm
Tyler D wrote:

KTMs are made out of potmetal. hondas and yamahas are best. 

Here we go again, ancient Asian vs German metal technology.    While the best pan used to be Japan, until just recently Honda hasn’t been able...

Here we go again, ancient Asian vs German metal technology. 
 

While the best pan used to be Japan, until just recently Honda hasn’t been able to wok-the-wok. 

Tyler D wrote:
Ability and execution are two different things. Ktm intentionally cuts corners for reasons of weight and margins. Again, maybe the critical parts are equal or better...

Ability and execution are two different things. Ktm intentionally cuts corners for reasons of weight and margins. Again, maybe the critical parts are equal or better (e.g. valve seats), but they half ass some stuff. 

I don’t think you understand how things work. A manufacturer gives you the minimal acceptable product, that’s it. They do not put effort or resources into anything you are likely to change. 
 

For KTM, their slogan is “ready to race.”  They give you a solid base package to race they do not put effort into things that a racer will change on their own. 

They gave you the minimum acceptable product for these things:

- Rims/ spokes/ hubs, a racer will swap out. 
- Suspension, a racer will modify. 
- Seat, a racer will swap this out. 
- Bar, a racer will swap this out. 
- Exhaust, a racer will swap this out. 
- Engine, a racer will modify. 
- Fasteners, a racer will swap those out. 

Did KTM give you a good base product? Probably yes. Is the product reliable? Probably yes. 
 

What more do you want on a race bike?

3

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