New bike day - Stark Varg has arrived!!!!

JM485
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5/23/2023 12:43pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I'm talking about pro level and national level. The electric 50s have their own class at Loretta's which is a national championship. I don't know how it...

I'm talking about pro level and national level. The electric 50s have their own class at Loretta's which is a national championship.

I don't know how it works at the local level or what the solution is. Maybe vet and age classes? 

As for electric bikes/Stark, I've already mentioned a couple of times why I think they should have their own series/class. 

Nothing personal, but I don't feel like typing it out again. If it helps, I posted it one of the Stark threads, so if you go back in one of them you'll be able to find it. 

It makes no sense to keep them in their own class, it's very easy to limit power output to fit the current 450 and 250 class models.  There is already a plan in place to make this happen, and you'll be seeing them in SX sooner than people think. . .

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12
5/23/2023 12:47pm
Silas444 wrote:
We. Shall. See.  I'll say this: if I were in charge of advertising for the Varg, I'd already have an ad dialed up that says "LET...

We. Shall. See. 

I'll say this: if I were in charge of advertising for the Varg, I'd already have an ad dialed up that says "LET US IN, YOU COWARDS." And I'd have another in the works that says, "Stark Varg - the bike they're terrified you'll ride."

One other thing: lap times. Let's say the AMA creates an all-new Supercross class for electric bikes only (they won't, but let's say they do). The moment the lap times in that class begin to dip below the 450s (and they will) - what then? No really, I'd like to know, Mav, ML, anyone - ANYONE - 

What. Then?

Goldmember wrote:
Balance of performance can be approached in a lot of ways. The more likely homologation issue is safety related. Accident electrocution is one, but if the...

Balance of performance can be approached in a lot of ways.

The more likely homologation issue is safety related.

Accident electrocution is one, but if the bike cannot do the required time on a battery to finish moto 2 what will they do?

 

So I read all your hate on the E bike. And I wonder what it is that you really hate. All the shit you post seems kind of childish. If you look at ICE bikes. They are a mature technology. We get tiny increments of advancement every year. This is brand new tech in it's infancy that will radically change even from month to month let alone year to year. What exactly is it that's got the sand so far up there in you? LIke really? It was said "this will be the best bike ever". Do think anyone that ever built something didn't believe that about what they were going to build? Of course people think that, or why would they build something new if they didn't think it would be an improvement over what's available? So you're upset over someone's enthusiasm of their life's work? Even IF some of the things you posted had any validity, they'll be outdated before you hit post, the technology is changing that fast. You must like reading how the new bike models get BOLD NEW GRAPHICS

TM

11
KurtJ99
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5/23/2023 12:49pm
Gravel wrote:
Even if the AMA keeps electric bikes out of pro racing, the local races will tell the story. No reason at all that they can’t run...

Even if the AMA keeps electric bikes out of pro racing, the local races will tell the story. No reason at all that they can’t run local vet races. If top ten vets started winning when they switch to volts then we all know what’s the best race bike 

Still wondering how a Stark battery will do during a long weekend camping trip.. 

Like 300SX and 350SXF, the public (money flush vets) will buy what they want.  Pro races will go where the factories tell the AMA to go. Doesn't matter if there is a racing class. If there is, fine, if not, fine too. 

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truck
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Fantasy
5/23/2023 12:55pm

I used to be indifferent on these things and figured they'll either work well or they won't, but now that I've read a few of these threads and have seen how emotionally and irrationally committed to their failure that some people are, I hope they are a huge success! So weird to be so invested in hoping something fails when you could just ignore it and live your life..... If you're so convinced you're right then they'll go away soon enough. It's almost like you don't even believe your own BS.....

16

The Shop

Silas444
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5/23/2023 1:06pm
GrapeApe wrote:

Are you the guy in your avatar?

No sir, that's Gaston Rahier, 125cc world champion and my favorite racer of all time. And were I to put myself forth as if I were actually him, I think you'd have a point worth making. I don't, never have, and never will. Mav, on the other hand........ well, I think I've made my view of him clear. I don't dislike him or anything, but he acts like he just buzzed the tower and is about to bang a young, busty, Kelly McGillis, and he didn't, and he isn't.

1
19
GrapeApe
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5/23/2023 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2023 1:16pm
GrapeApe wrote:

Are you the guy in your avatar?

Silas444 wrote:
No sir, that's Gaston Rahier, 125cc world champion and my favorite racer of all time. And were I to put myself forth as if I were...

No sir, that's Gaston Rahier, 125cc world champion and my favorite racer of all time. And were I to put myself forth as if I were actually him, I think you'd have a point worth making. I don't, never have, and never will. Mav, on the other hand........ well, I think I've made my view of him clear. I don't dislike him or anything, but he acts like he just buzzed the tower and is about to bang a young, busty, Kelly McGillis, and he didn't, and he isn't.

It was a rhetorical question.

Just for full disclosure I am not actually a purple cartoon ape.

20
Titan1
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5/23/2023 1:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/24/2023 6:33am
GrapeApe wrote:

Are you the guy in your avatar?

Silas444 wrote:
No sir, that's Gaston Rahier, 125cc world champion and my favorite racer of all time. And were I to put myself forth as if I were...

No sir, that's Gaston Rahier, 125cc world champion and my favorite racer of all time. And were I to put myself forth as if I were actually him, I think you'd have a point worth making. I don't, never have, and never will. Mav, on the other hand........ well, I think I've made my view of him clear. I don't dislike him or anything, but he acts like he just buzzed the tower and is about to bang a young, busty, Kelly McGillis, and he didn't, and he isn't.

What happened to you having way more important things to do, and being way to passionate about your career, and essentially being too good to post here...remember your long winded, multi-post, exit speech?

Honestly, the 
grandiloquence in every single one of your posts is way over the top. 

And for the record, that is me in my avatar... 

8
5/23/2023 1:43pm
GrapeApe wrote:

Are you the guy in your avatar?

Silas444 wrote:
No sir, that's Gaston Rahier, 125cc world champion and my favorite racer of all time. And were I to put myself forth as if I were...

No sir, that's Gaston Rahier, 125cc world champion and my favorite racer of all time. And were I to put myself forth as if I were actually him, I think you'd have a point worth making. I don't, never have, and never will. Mav, on the other hand........ well, I think I've made my view of him clear. I don't dislike him or anything, but he acts like he just buzzed the tower and is about to bang a young, busty, Kelly McGillis, and he didn't, and he isn't.

GrapeApe wrote:

It was a rhetorical question.

Just for full disclosure I am not actually a purple cartoon ape.

WTF? You're not a purple cartoon ape? Who knew?

3
lumpy790
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5/23/2023 1:47pm

You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have seen a video of 2 of the E Hondas on a MX track.

The E SX class is a lot closer than you think once the other manufacturers release them.

1
5/23/2023 1:50pm
JM485 wrote:
This is so fun to watch play out because we went through the exact same experiment in human behavior in the pitbike world as we're going...

This is so fun to watch play out because we went through the exact same experiment in human behavior in the pitbike world as we're going through with the Stark right now.  It always follows the same patter of phase, "first they laugh at you, then they acknowledge you, and then they fight you".  When we first showed up with out E-pitbikes everyone thought it was a joke, but then after developing the bike a little bit we started to win with them.  At that point people started to acknowledge them, and a decent percentage of people thought they were cool.  Then, we started dominating on them, winning by large margins as the bike got better and I got better at riding it.  Now we're starting to see the "and then they fight you" phase start up.  The same people who laughed before now want us banned because we're kicking their ass consistently, it's as laughable as it is ironic.

 

The same is happening with the Stark, but we're a few years behind.  We're still in the "first they laugh at you" phase, but we're quickly transitioning into the "then they acknowledge you" phase as bikes begin to get tested and delivered.  Give it a couple years, and when people are consistently faster on the E-bikes then they are on their gas bikes, we'll quickly enter the "and then they fight you" phase as the same dumb asses who couldn't see past their nose before now have to scramble to justify their ignorance as they get proven wrong again and again.  Buckle up, it's going to be a fun ride.  

Silas444 wrote:
It is indeed, going to be a fun ride, although I must admit to feeling a bit guilty about it. It's just wrong to chuckle at...

It is indeed, going to be a fun ride, although I must admit to feeling a bit guilty about it. It's just wrong to chuckle at someone else's expense, but I've done that a lot already and am only going to do it more. It's funny - someone a few pages back in this thread mentioned how an OEM like Honda will likely get with the AMA to make sure they ban the Varg from pro races, be it Supercross or Motocross. How silly. Somewhere out there, an antitrust lawyer is already shopping for a yacht at the mere THOUGHT of winning a collusion lawsuit that big, that easily. Ban it why? It's too quiet? The graphics are too plain? It has too many horsepower? No way. Once they made traction control and ECU programming legal, the AMA effectively let the horse out of the barn. This is the one place where the bike being "green" will give it an advantage: what sanctioning body want the Feds snooping around their business because they're banning an E-bike and therefore appear to be pro-global-warming? Again: no way.

Once the first 400 are out there and homologation is accomplished, the AMA will fold like a cheap suit. What I find most laughable of all is that everyone on these Varg threads - even the most strident doubters - all know the other OEMs would only want to ban it because they fear that it with a top ten guy on it, it could not only compete, it could WIN.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I always enjoy your postings. Sanity combined with actual knowledge - sooooooooooooo refreshing.

soggy wrote:
Electric bikes don’t qualify to race at the pro level currently. Engine displacement rules state they must be single cylinder and fit within the displacement range...

Electric bikes don’t qualify to race at the pro level currently. Engine displacement rules state they must be single cylinder and fit within the displacement range. So most of your post about antitrust this suing that are not accurate. 

And Unfortunately the manufacturers have been involved in the rulemaking for years.   I agree that banning it only helps stark. But its also not able to meet current rules so I would be more surprised to see it be allowed quickly, than to see them drag their feet . I hope that the other brands are working on bikes of their own too. But everything has a beginning and an end. At one point Hodak's were the best bikes around weren't they? And Honda was considered cheap junk along with other japanese made stuff. 

 

I think they should be let into the 450 classes. But I will be surprised if it happens before 2026. I really do hope I am surprised. I see many upsides to them. And I have been excited about them since first reading about and seeing the  Redshift renders that became Alta redshift .

 If I had to say based off what I've seen, read and heard  about both Stark and Alta. I would say that Alta was trying to be bought. based off of their long public development  and short life after bringing a bike to market.

3
Titan1
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5/23/2023 1:51pm
lumpy790 wrote:
You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have...

You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have seen a video of 2 of the E Hondas on a MX track.

The E SX class is a lot closer than you think once the other manufacturers release them.

I'd love emx bikes in supercross...the four strokes are so loud in those stadiums, it just becomes one loud roar rather than specific engine noises...I'd love to be able to hear myself think during the races.

Motocross though?  It wouldn't be the same without the sound of the engines...watching the best in the world blast out of a turn at Southwick, just won't be the same without the exhaust note.   

1
soggy
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5/23/2023 2:01pm
Titan1 wrote:
I'd love emx bikes in supercross...the four strokes are so loud in those stadiums, it just becomes one loud roar rather than specific engine noises...I'd love...

I'd love emx bikes in supercross...the four strokes are so loud in those stadiums, it just becomes one loud roar rather than specific engine noises...I'd love to be able to hear myself think during the races.

Motocross though?  It wouldn't be the same without the sound of the engines...watching the best in the world blast out of a turn at Southwick, just won't be the same without the exhaust note.   

Splitting hairs. 

2
Silas444
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5/23/2023 2:02pm
KurtJ99 wrote:
Like 300SX and 350SXF, the public (money flush vets) will buy what they want.  Pro races will go where the factories tell the AMA to go...

Like 300SX and 350SXF, the public (money flush vets) will buy what they want.  Pro races will go where the factories tell the AMA to go. Doesn't matter if there is a racing class. If there is, fine, if not, fine too. 

And again I say: We. Shall. See.

If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions as to why the sport had no problem with letting Josh Hill ride an Alta against other pro riders on two-stroke 250s in Red Bull Straight Rhythm for a $100,000.00 purse, but sees it as catastrophic to the sport to have him (or anyone else) compete against 450s in professional Supercross (450s that can, and do, compete on-par against 250 2-strokes). And should his answer portray him as being full of shit and motivated by a fear he has of the backlash, financial and otherwise, he'll get from the existing OEMs for letting the Varg in? An antitrust lawsuit will surely follow, and I for one wouldn't bet against it winning. The AMA has been full of crap for as long as I've been aware of its existence, with the "age out" rule being a perfect example. There no legally defensible reason to exclude someone from competing in a sport due to the inevitable advancement of age. It's ludicrous, absolutely moronic. This issue has been a winnable lawsuit looking for a place to happen for years upon years now, it's just that no one has had the stones to bring it.

But I digress.

Will the Varg race pro Supercross in 2023? Doubtful. In '24? You bet your ass. 

 

17
Silas444
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5/23/2023 2:04pm
Titan1 wrote:
What happened to you having way more important things to do, and being way to passionate about your career, and essentially being too good to post...

What happened to you having way more important things to do, and being way to passionate about your career, and essentially being too good to post here...remember your long winded, multi-post, exit speech?

Honestly, the 
grandiloquence in every single one of your posts is way over the top. 

And for the record, that is me in my avatar... 

Bite me. 

How's that? Better?

3
15
Broseph
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5/23/2023 2:07pm
Silas444 wrote:
We. Shall. See.  I'll say this: if I were in charge of advertising for the Varg, I'd already have an ad dialed up that says "LET...

We. Shall. See. 

I'll say this: if I were in charge of advertising for the Varg, I'd already have an ad dialed up that says "LET US IN, YOU COWARDS." And I'd have another in the works that says, "Stark Varg - the bike they're terrified you'll ride."

One other thing: lap times. Let's say the AMA creates an all-new Supercross class for electric bikes only (they won't, but let's say they do). The moment the lap times in that class begin to dip below the 450s (and they will) - what then? No really, I'd like to know, Mav, ML, anyone - ANYONE - 

What. Then?

IMG 2818.jpeg?VersionId=MEc1lB

 

1
LungButter
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5/23/2023 2:10pm
Silas444 wrote:
And again I say: We. Shall. See. If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions...

And again I say: We. Shall. See.

If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions as to why the sport had no problem with letting Josh Hill ride an Alta against other pro riders on two-stroke 250s in Red Bull Straight Rhythm for a $100,000.00 purse, but sees it as catastrophic to the sport to have him (or anyone else) compete against 450s in professional Supercross (450s that can, and do, compete on-par against 250 2-strokes). And should his answer portray him as being full of shit and motivated by a fear he has of the backlash, financial and otherwise, he'll get from the existing OEMs for letting the Varg in? An antitrust lawsuit will surely follow, and I for one wouldn't bet against it winning. The AMA has been full of crap for as long as I've been aware of its existence, with the "age out" rule being a perfect example. There no legally defensible reason to exclude someone from competing in a sport due to the inevitable advancement of age. It's ludicrous, absolutely moronic. This issue has been a winnable lawsuit looking for a place to happen for years upon years now, it's just that no one has had the stones to bring it.

But I digress.

Will the Varg race pro Supercross in 2023? Doubtful. In '24? You bet your ass. 

 

You lose all credibility with that argument when you compare Red Bull Straight Rhythm to AMA Supercross and Motocross.

It's not even in the same universe.

6
NSP139
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5/23/2023 2:18pm
KurtJ99 wrote:
Like 300SX and 350SXF, the public (money flush vets) will buy what they want.  Pro races will go where the factories tell the AMA to go...

Like 300SX and 350SXF, the public (money flush vets) will buy what they want.  Pro races will go where the factories tell the AMA to go. Doesn't matter if there is a racing class. If there is, fine, if not, fine too. 

Silas444 wrote:
And again I say: We. Shall. See. If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions...

And again I say: We. Shall. See.

If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions as to why the sport had no problem with letting Josh Hill ride an Alta against other pro riders on two-stroke 250s in Red Bull Straight Rhythm for a $100,000.00 purse, but sees it as catastrophic to the sport to have him (or anyone else) compete against 450s in professional Supercross (450s that can, and do, compete on-par against 250 2-strokes). And should his answer portray him as being full of shit and motivated by a fear he has of the backlash, financial and otherwise, he'll get from the existing OEMs for letting the Varg in? An antitrust lawsuit will surely follow, and I for one wouldn't bet against it winning. The AMA has been full of crap for as long as I've been aware of its existence, with the "age out" rule being a perfect example. There no legally defensible reason to exclude someone from competing in a sport due to the inevitable advancement of age. It's ludicrous, absolutely moronic. This issue has been a winnable lawsuit looking for a place to happen for years upon years now, it's just that no one has had the stones to bring it.

But I digress.

Will the Varg race pro Supercross in 2023? Doubtful. In '24? You bet your ass. 

 

You are aware of the AMA does not have a rider age out rule LOL! You seem to have a lot of time on your hands you might want to look this stuff up!

5/23/2023 2:28pm
KurtJ99 wrote:
Like 300SX and 350SXF, the public (money flush vets) will buy what they want.  Pro races will go where the factories tell the AMA to go...

Like 300SX and 350SXF, the public (money flush vets) will buy what they want.  Pro races will go where the factories tell the AMA to go. Doesn't matter if there is a racing class. If there is, fine, if not, fine too. 

Silas444 wrote:
And again I say: We. Shall. See. If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions...

And again I say: We. Shall. See.

If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions as to why the sport had no problem with letting Josh Hill ride an Alta against other pro riders on two-stroke 250s in Red Bull Straight Rhythm for a $100,000.00 purse, but sees it as catastrophic to the sport to have him (or anyone else) compete against 450s in professional Supercross (450s that can, and do, compete on-par against 250 2-strokes). And should his answer portray him as being full of shit and motivated by a fear he has of the backlash, financial and otherwise, he'll get from the existing OEMs for letting the Varg in? An antitrust lawsuit will surely follow, and I for one wouldn't bet against it winning. The AMA has been full of crap for as long as I've been aware of its existence, with the "age out" rule being a perfect example. There no legally defensible reason to exclude someone from competing in a sport due to the inevitable advancement of age. It's ludicrous, absolutely moronic. This issue has been a winnable lawsuit looking for a place to happen for years upon years now, it's just that no one has had the stones to bring it.

But I digress.

Will the Varg race pro Supercross in 2023? Doubtful. In '24? You bet your ass. 

 

I really hope that you are right about seeing a Varg in 2024. The Red Bull thing is not really supported by all of the manufacturers like SX and MX. And is not an AMA sanctioned race.     I remember reading about how each manufacturer has somebody on the AMA board  and they vote the rules into place. That was a long while ago that I read that  so it might have changed.  I'm glad to see you back . 

I know that there was an agreement made to develop a standard battery between most of the current manufacturers. So we have to assume that they have electric MX bikes being developed . Who knows where they are in development. How quickly the Varg is let in, might shed some light on how far away those bikes might be.  Or atleast the rules they try and get put in place may give some insight .  Starting with more of a blank sheet of paper than I expect the current manufactures to have started with. Stark might have a big head start  .  WIth the current brands , there could be existing engineers that are stuck in their ways , or that would not have a job if they went all electric. I could see a similar division inside those companies to the one of the general public and this thread. 

No matter how you feel about them, it is exciting to be around during what could be a big evolution in motorsports.

2
Titan1
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5/23/2023 2:32pm
Titan1 wrote:
I'd love emx bikes in supercross...the four strokes are so loud in those stadiums, it just becomes one loud roar rather than specific engine noises...I'd love...

I'd love emx bikes in supercross...the four strokes are so loud in those stadiums, it just becomes one loud roar rather than specific engine noises...I'd love to be able to hear myself think during the races.

Motocross though?  It wouldn't be the same without the sound of the engines...watching the best in the world blast out of a turn at Southwick, just won't be the same without the exhaust note.   

soggy wrote:

Splitting hairs. 

Well, it’s just my opinion…some people like the noise in supercross…I’m fine agreeing to disagree on it.  

Titan1
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5/23/2023 2:32pm
Titan1 wrote:
What happened to you having way more important things to do, and being way to passionate about your career, and essentially being too good to post...

What happened to you having way more important things to do, and being way to passionate about your career, and essentially being too good to post here...remember your long winded, multi-post, exit speech?

Honestly, the 
grandiloquence in every single one of your posts is way over the top. 

And for the record, that is me in my avatar... 

Silas444 wrote:

Bite me. 

How's that? Better?

Actually, yes.  

4
5/23/2023 2:37pm
lumpy790 wrote:
You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have...

You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have seen a video of 2 of the E Hondas on a MX track.

The E SX class is a lot closer than you think once the other manufacturers release them.

The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new tech comes along they cannot incorporate it into their design. Now in a mature ICE market they shine, but in new emerging tech market, they are smarter to let others develop and then just buy the best complete design. There's too many variables for them to come out with the latest and greatest because their production cycle is measured in years. This tech is moving too fast for them to keep up.

4
soggy
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5/23/2023 3:00pm
Silas444 wrote:
And again I say: We. Shall. See. If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions...

And again I say: We. Shall. See.

If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions as to why the sport had no problem with letting Josh Hill ride an Alta against other pro riders on two-stroke 250s in Red Bull Straight Rhythm for a $100,000.00 purse, but sees it as catastrophic to the sport to have him (or anyone else) compete against 450s in professional Supercross (450s that can, and do, compete on-par against 250 2-strokes). And should his answer portray him as being full of shit and motivated by a fear he has of the backlash, financial and otherwise, he'll get from the existing OEMs for letting the Varg in? An antitrust lawsuit will surely follow, and I for one wouldn't bet against it winning. The AMA has been full of crap for as long as I've been aware of its existence, with the "age out" rule being a perfect example. There no legally defensible reason to exclude someone from competing in a sport due to the inevitable advancement of age. It's ludicrous, absolutely moronic. This issue has been a winnable lawsuit looking for a place to happen for years upon years now, it's just that no one has had the stones to bring it.

But I digress.

Will the Varg race pro Supercross in 2023? Doubtful. In '24? You bet your ass. 

 

LOL so much wrong in your post I don’t even know where to start?  
 

care to share your dealers number. They’ve apparently got the high test shit. 

5/23/2023 3:09pm

What if Stark went through Feld directly and sponsored an exhibition race during SX? Maybe start with 6 - 10 guys and only at the triple crown races or something. Don’t need to involve the AMA. Feld owns SX and want sponsor money this could be a good platform to get exposure on a real sx track for stark.

2
1
zookrider62!
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5/23/2023 3:10pm
KurtJ99 wrote:
Like 300SX and 350SXF, the public (money flush vets) will buy what they want.  Pro races will go where the factories tell the AMA to go...

Like 300SX and 350SXF, the public (money flush vets) will buy what they want.  Pro races will go where the factories tell the AMA to go. Doesn't matter if there is a racing class. If there is, fine, if not, fine too. 

Silas444 wrote:
And again I say: We. Shall. See. If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions...

And again I say: We. Shall. See.

If I were the head of the AMA, I'd be having my legal team pepper me with practice questions as to why the sport had no problem with letting Josh Hill ride an Alta against other pro riders on two-stroke 250s in Red Bull Straight Rhythm for a $100,000.00 purse, but sees it as catastrophic to the sport to have him (or anyone else) compete against 450s in professional Supercross (450s that can, and do, compete on-par against 250 2-strokes). And should his answer portray him as being full of shit and motivated by a fear he has of the backlash, financial and otherwise, he'll get from the existing OEMs for letting the Varg in? An antitrust lawsuit will surely follow, and I for one wouldn't bet against it winning. The AMA has been full of crap for as long as I've been aware of its existence, with the "age out" rule being a perfect example. There no legally defensible reason to exclude someone from competing in a sport due to the inevitable advancement of age. It's ludicrous, absolutely moronic. This issue has been a winnable lawsuit looking for a place to happen for years upon years now, it's just that no one has had the stones to bring it.

But I digress.

Will the Varg race pro Supercross in 2023? Doubtful. In '24? You bet your ass. 

 

Hot take saying Stark won’t make it into the supercross season that already ended

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KurtJ99
Posts
2635
Joined
2/6/2017
Location
USA
5/23/2023 3:12pm
lumpy790 wrote:
You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have...

You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have seen a video of 2 of the E Hondas on a MX track.

The E SX class is a lot closer than you think once the other manufacturers release them.

Yes, we've seen those videos. I am holding out for a Honda but for how long? If it isn't in the next 3 years I'll go with a Varg once the lead time is reasonable. 

Ob917
Posts
1166
Joined
9/29/2021
Location
Cardiff, CA, USA
5/23/2023 3:15pm
lumpy790 wrote:
You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have...

You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have seen a video of 2 of the E Hondas on a MX track.

The E SX class is a lot closer than you think once the other manufacturers release them.

ToolMaker wrote:
The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new...

The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new tech comes along they cannot incorporate it into their design. Now in a mature ICE market they shine, but in new emerging tech market, they are smarter to let others develop and then just buy the best complete design. There's too many variables for them to come out with the latest and greatest because their production cycle is measured in years. This tech is moving too fast for them to keep up.

Didn’t Pit of KTM recently come out and say they were done with electric stuff for now? Didn’t he say at the current time electric race bikes were not very feasible? Even if what he thinks is true I don’t think they should stop trying and developing things for the future, shit is just to hard to predict. But I’m not very smart enough like some people here so who knows 🍻

2
5/23/2023 3:37pm

2hr tire check on the Varg. 3 broken knobbies already. Nice, Pirelli. The Bridgestone Battlecross X31's i run on my Alta never do this. Guess im changing tires already.

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 20230523 153434

 

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5/23/2023 3:48pm
lumpy790 wrote:
You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have...

You guys do realize that the big manufacturers like Honda and KTM have been working on building these for a couple years don't you? I have seen a video of 2 of the E Hondas on a MX track.

The E SX class is a lot closer than you think once the other manufacturers release them.

ToolMaker wrote:
The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new...

The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new tech comes along they cannot incorporate it into their design. Now in a mature ICE market they shine, but in new emerging tech market, they are smarter to let others develop and then just buy the best complete design. There's too many variables for them to come out with the latest and greatest because their production cycle is measured in years. This tech is moving too fast for them to keep up.

Ob917 wrote:
Didn’t Pit of KTM recently come out and say they were done with electric stuff for now? Didn’t he say at the current time electric race...

Didn’t Pit of KTM recently come out and say they were done with electric stuff for now? Didn’t he say at the current time electric race bikes were not very feasible? Even if what he thinks is true I don’t think they should stop trying and developing things for the future, shit is just to hard to predict. But I’m not very smart enough like some people here so who knows 🍻

I don't know but if he did, but that's pretty good PR. What company in their right mind would actually come out and say "we don't care what you want, we don't want to spend the money to design it because there's no ROI. Because by the time we come out with it, it's out dated"

Natester551v
Posts
996
Joined
1/11/2015
Location
St. George, UT, USA
5/23/2023 4:06pm
ToolMaker wrote:
The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new...

The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new tech comes along they cannot incorporate it into their design. Now in a mature ICE market they shine, but in new emerging tech market, they are smarter to let others develop and then just buy the best complete design. There's too many variables for them to come out with the latest and greatest because their production cycle is measured in years. This tech is moving too fast for them to keep up.

Ob917 wrote:
Didn’t Pit of KTM recently come out and say they were done with electric stuff for now? Didn’t he say at the current time electric race...

Didn’t Pit of KTM recently come out and say they were done with electric stuff for now? Didn’t he say at the current time electric race bikes were not very feasible? Even if what he thinks is true I don’t think they should stop trying and developing things for the future, shit is just to hard to predict. But I’m not very smart enough like some people here so who knows 🍻

ToolMaker wrote:
I don't know but if he did, but that's pretty good PR. What company in their right mind would actually come out and say "we don't...

I don't know but if he did, but that's pretty good PR. What company in their right mind would actually come out and say "we don't care what you want, we don't want to spend the money to design it because there's no ROI. Because by the time we come out with it, it's out dated"

What Pit said is that the power density of current battery technology cannot support anything larger than a 125cc play bike (or something to that effect); there is no way that the current battery tech can provide anything close to what a gas engine can in terms of range and run time at the pro MX level or offroad.  

I don't care for the hyperbole either for or against the Stark, but the laws of physics still apply.  Doesn't mean I'm not taking delivery of my Varg, but if I go through with it I'll do it with my eyes open and utilize it for shorter rides (and hopefully someday on my own property so I don't piss off my neighbors).  It has its place, but without significant leaps in battery tech it simply cannot compete head-to-head at the pro level, no matter how much folks want to believe it can.

1
5/23/2023 4:09pm
Ob917 wrote:
Didn’t Pit of KTM recently come out and say they were done with electric stuff for now? Didn’t he say at the current time electric race...

Didn’t Pit of KTM recently come out and say they were done with electric stuff for now? Didn’t he say at the current time electric race bikes were not very feasible? Even if what he thinks is true I don’t think they should stop trying and developing things for the future, shit is just to hard to predict. But I’m not very smart enough like some people here so who knows 🍻

ToolMaker wrote:
I don't know but if he did, but that's pretty good PR. What company in their right mind would actually come out and say "we don't...

I don't know but if he did, but that's pretty good PR. What company in their right mind would actually come out and say "we don't care what you want, we don't want to spend the money to design it because there's no ROI. Because by the time we come out with it, it's out dated"

What Pit said is that the power density of current battery technology cannot support anything larger than a 125cc play bike (or something to that effect)...

What Pit said is that the power density of current battery technology cannot support anything larger than a 125cc play bike (or something to that effect); there is no way that the current battery tech can provide anything close to what a gas engine can in terms of range and run time at the pro MX level or offroad.  

I don't care for the hyperbole either for or against the Stark, but the laws of physics still apply.  Doesn't mean I'm not taking delivery of my Varg, but if I go through with it I'll do it with my eyes open and utilize it for shorter rides (and hopefully someday on my own property so I don't piss off my neighbors).  It has its place, but without significant leaps in battery tech it simply cannot compete head-to-head at the pro level, no matter how much folks want to believe it can.

You realize how fast the tech is changing though right?

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