New bike day - Stark Varg has arrived!!!!

davis224
Posts
7407
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Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
5/22/2023 3:30pm
How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2...

How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2 stroke with a Bills pipe? Or does it sound like a whiney ex gf or RC car?

I'm honestly curious what they would sound like with a resonating chamber attached that picks up motor noise, it's dead weight and defeats the purpose of being silent, but if noise is important to some people, it's certainly attainable, and not just from a speaker.

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5/22/2023 3:45pm
How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2...

How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2 stroke with a Bills pipe? Or does it sound like a whiney ex gf or RC car?

It sounds a little louder than  the Tesla the Girl/Guy drives that Your Girlfriend/Boyfriend left you for.  

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10
5/22/2023 3:56pm
How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2...

How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2 stroke with a Bills pipe? Or does it sound like a whiney ex gf or RC car?

davis224 wrote:
I'm honestly curious what they would sound like with a resonating chamber attached that picks up motor noise, it's dead weight and defeats the purpose of...

I'm honestly curious what they would sound like with a resonating chamber attached that picks up motor noise, it's dead weight and defeats the purpose of being silent, but if noise is important to some people, it's certainly attainable, and not just from a speaker.

If noise is important to you while riding...

Ear buds

 

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5/22/2023 4:01pm
Gator724 wrote:

So how quickly can it charge? How much is an extra battery to be able to swap at practice/races?

Goldmember wrote:
Battery price from Stark. Plus delivery. How quickly, if at all, a hot battery can be charged is a moot question.  Charging heats batteries the same...

image-20230523035551-1

Battery price from Stark. Plus delivery.

How quickly, if at all, a hot battery can be charged is a moot question. 

Charging heats batteries the same as discharging them and the battery control programming will have a lot to say about how quickly things happen, regardless of input voltage.

Hot swapping high voltage, high current batteries is extremely dangerous. Unlikely to happen and probably not allowed at tracks and venues.

Gator724 wrote:

7500!!!! Jesus 

How many tank fulls of gas do you use in a day of riding?  A full battery might be pretty close to the runtime of a full tank of gas on a 450 form what it sounds like.  So many people seem to be hung up on an issue they will never have. If you have a generator or outlet that can power the fast charge , its an hour from 0% .  I'm betting that most people riding MX will not run it down that low in a single ride.   And if you do, You have to weigh that in Your decision of if the Varg will work for you. Just like buying any other bike. 

You may not be able to refuel in seconds, But You can ride many places without anybody knowing you are there. and adjust many aspects of the power output in seconds . Go from 80HP to 15 HP and let Your buddy or girlfriend try the bike without worrying they will die on it. and then crank it back up. Stuff that is impossible on a gas bike or would take much longer  Just depends on what is more important.  

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The Shop

5/22/2023 4:03pm Edited Date/Time 5/22/2023 4:04pm
I am guessing based on the 3.3KW  Stark says the charger  delivers , that You would need something around 4000 continuous   watts . Maybe you could...

I am guessing based on the 3.3KW  Stark says the charger  delivers , that You would need something around 4000 continuous   watts . Maybe you could get away with one that was 3300 watts,not 100% sure. It puts it just above what a Honda EU3000 (2800 continuous   watts )    puts out for short start up power.    Harbor Freight has a  3500 ( 3000 continuous   watts)  and 9500 ( 7500 continuous   watts )inverter style  generator. I'm pretty sure you could run it off the 9500 watt one. 

I think that Bryan said he has a smaller $400 inverter style generator that he has been using. If you are doing 15-20 minute motos you could probably get away with not fast charging at the track if you showed up full and plugged in whenever not on the track. 

Some of the fast chargers I've read about  you get up to the first 80% of charge really fast and that last bit takes longer. I wonder if fast charging a battery at 50% for 30 minutes would top it off or if its slower at the upper end of charging? If you regular charged and only used 35% each moto, and there is not a drop off in charge speed you would get topped off in around 40 minutes. On a practice day split into 3 groups that should give you enough time to charge.  

The spec sheet shows the cells in the Varg can take max current right away, with current tapering off just before the cell reaches 4volts (solid lines below). The Alta charge ramps in current more like a gradient, low current at <20% and > ~90%, but Alta has different cells. I'm not sure exactly the charging curve on the Varg, but i bet its similar for battery health reasons. Also, there is a cell balancing procedure that is performed after fully charged in order to equalize all of the cells in the pack, which occurs at rather low current. Charge current is also temperature dependent. 

image-20230522153152-1

10A supplied to a 4p pack means roughly 2.5A per cell (actually slightly less), which means right now the cells are only being charged at 0.55C which is actually below the "standard" charge current.

image-20230522154326-2

 13.5a Max means a charger (and the bike) would need to supply 54A and 420volts! Thats 22.68kw!!! We'd probably need a liquid cooled battery pack to handle that lol.

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5/22/2023 4:03pm Edited Date/Time 5/22/2023 4:19pm

It sounds a little louder than  the Tesla the Girl/Guy drives that Your Girlfriend/Boyfriend left you for.  

Haha at a chick ever leaving me. Also Sasquatch's are not from the East Coast, they are from the Pacific Northwest. They have a Bigfoot festival in Willow Creek once a year where I lived in Humboldt County, CA. They have museums, restaurants, and stores devoted to it. It's pretty entertaining you should look into it. Google Bigfoot days in Willow Creek. You might enjoy it and help out the local economy at the same time if you wanted to attend. You also might enjoy this movie too.

https://youtu.be/QPlc9UY2iuQ

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5/22/2023 4:05pm
davis224 wrote:

How many hours do you have on your Alta if you don't mind me asking?

about 230

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wfopete
Posts
484
Joined
7/27/2015
Location
Dover, AR US
5/22/2023 5:05pm

Does the power of the Stark electric motor build in a straight liner fashion or something different?  In different power modes is the power limited by rpm or something else?  Are there any graphs that depict the Stark's power characteristics?

 

Silas444
Posts
638
Joined
5/23/2015
Location
Mid-state, ME US
5/22/2023 5:06pm
How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2...

How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2 stroke with a Bills pipe? Or does it sound like a whiney ex gf or RC car?

A whiny EX girlfriend? 

Why do you still talk to them once they're your exes? Once my paramours were in my rear-view mirror, I had no idea what they sounded like, whiny or otherwise - but I guess you're more of the clingy type.

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5/22/2023 5:17pm
How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2...

How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2 stroke with a Bills pipe? Or does it sound like a whiney ex gf or RC car?

Silas444 wrote:
A whiny EX girlfriend?  Why do you still talk to them once they're your exes? Once my paramours were in my rear-view mirror, I had no...

A whiny EX girlfriend? 

Why do you still talk to them once they're your exes? Once my paramours were in my rear-view mirror, I had no idea what they sounded like, whiny or otherwise - but I guess you're more of the clingy type.

I take it you haven't been with an ex after the relationship has ended? I'll just say if they acted that way during the relationship they wouldn't be an ex. Marriage is the biggest sham in the world. But insecure fellas buy in everyday, knowing damn well how it's gonna end. Suckers.

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yota
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Location
Crystal River, FL US
5/22/2023 5:43pm

whiney ex girlfriends..jesus, there's like 4 decent comments in this entire thread.

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Cobbler
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432
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3/13/2023
Location
cairo, IL US
5/22/2023 6:18pm

I promise I wont spend 7500 in gas for my DinOsAUr bIKe in 230 hours lol. Foreal, post the riding video I do really wanna see the wolf in action.

What Does Copium Mean in Twitch Chat and Where Did It Originate?

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Timo
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Wichita, KS US
5/22/2023 6:25pm
Silas444 wrote:
Okay Goldmember, I'm your huckleberry.  The MXA 450 shootout recently declared the 2023 Yamaha YZ450F as its winner. Therefore, one could certainly argue that this bike...

Okay Goldmember, I'm your huckleberry. 

The MXA 450 shootout recently declared the 2023 Yamaha YZ450F as its winner. Therefore, one could certainly argue that this bike is currently "the best MX bike ever made." 

Okay, fine - let's do that. What I'll do now is a quick 10 point comparison between that bike and the Stark Varg.

1. Which bike is produces virtually no noise and thus can be ridden stealthily?

2. Which bike will never, ever, find a false neutral on a jump face?

3. Which bike will never, ever, seize its motor on a steep downhill double?

4. Which bike has an endlessly adjustable torque curve and power delivery that can change from 1 horsepower to 80 - and everything in-between - in mere seconds?

5. Which bike requires less maintenance?

6. Which bike is easier to ride for anyone from a beginner to a pro?

7. Which bike feels lighter - not on a scale, but on an actual track?

8. Which bike requires less shifting?

9. Which bike has adjustable engine braking?

10. Which bike has more range?

Hmmm. Near as I can tell, the poor, hapless, Yammy went one-for-ten on my comparison test. Therefore, I do hereby confirm Wass' various statements as true and do now declare the Stark Varg to be, indeed, "the best MX bike ever made."

I'm all for electric motors, but they can totally lock up if a bearing fails. Anything mechanical that spins has a possibility of locking up.

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soggy
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8655
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Location
UT US
5/22/2023 6:30pm
Cobbler wrote:
I promise I wont spend 7500 in gas for my DinOsAUr bIKe in 230 hours lol. Foreal, post the riding video I do really wanna see...

I promise I wont spend 7500 in gas for my DinOsAUr bIKe in 230 hours lol. Foreal, post the riding video I do really wanna see the wolf in action.

What Does Copium Mean in Twitch Chat and Where Did It Originate?

Add in oil, filters, top ends, bottom ends, ecu remaps and aftermarket exhaust etc and your in the ball park. Not to mention all the time required to do it. 

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2
5/22/2023 6:41pm
soggy wrote:
Add in oil, filters, top ends, bottom ends, ecu remaps and aftermarket exhaust etc and your in the ball park. Not to mention all the time...

Add in oil, filters, top ends, bottom ends, ecu remaps and aftermarket exhaust etc and your in the ball park. Not to mention all the time required to do it. 

He doesn’t want to have a good faith discussion. 

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HD1200
Posts
1090
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Location
Greenville, GA US
5/22/2023 6:46pm
Just got word that my replacement 240V cable has been shipped out already, to arrive by Monday. Talk about excellent customer service, wow! They immediately provided...

Just got word that my replacement 240V cable has been shipped out already, to arrive by Monday. Talk about excellent customer service, wow! They immediately provided a resolution to this. Love it.

It seems like you are the only customer to have to deal with so that probably helps

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soggy
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Location
UT US
5/22/2023 7:38pm
soggy wrote:
Add in oil, filters, top ends, bottom ends, ecu remaps and aftermarket exhaust etc and your in the ball park. Not to mention all the time...

Add in oil, filters, top ends, bottom ends, ecu remaps and aftermarket exhaust etc and your in the ball park. Not to mention all the time required to do it. 

He doesn’t want to have a good faith discussion. 

I know. I caved this one time. 

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5/22/2023 7:57pm
How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2...

How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2 stroke with a Bills pipe? Or does it sound like a whiney ex gf or RC car?

Give it a rest 

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mickjs311
Posts
1
Joined
5/22/2023
Location
Kewanee, IL US
5/22/2023 8:01pm

Thank you Bryan for sharing your experience with the new bike here and on YouTube.  Congratulations on the new bike! I look forward to learning more about Stark bikes.

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Johnny Ringo
Posts
8186
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1/11/2016
Location
Tombstone, AZ US
5/22/2023 8:07pm

How the hell have we gone 15 pages without anyone asking if it comes with a turtleneck or is that an add-on?

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5/22/2023 8:14pm
wfopete wrote:
Does the power of the Stark electric motor build in a straight liner fashion or something different?  In different power modes is the power limited by...

Does the power of the Stark electric motor build in a straight liner fashion or something different?  In different power modes is the power limited by rpm or something else?  Are there any graphs that depict the Stark's power characteristics?

 

No the throttle is more like a progressive S-curve on the Varg, sort of like a gas bike. The Alta is more linear i'd say. You can do a tiny crack of a throttle and creep the bike up a loading ramp into the bed of your truck with only one hand, but at like 20% the bike fricken comes alive and beyond that hang on! That said its really easy to manage the power throughout the entire throttle range.

The "power" setting in each map affects the entire throttle range. so 50% throttle at 60hp will feel way more powerful than 50% throttle at 40hp.

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#434
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1913
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Location
DE
5/22/2023 10:00pm

I like how you can see by the question and comments in this thread that it’s slowing dawning on a lot of people, that this thing really is the game changer. 

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#434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
5/22/2023 10:06pm
Silas444 wrote:
Okay Goldmember, I'm your huckleberry.  The MXA 450 shootout recently declared the 2023 Yamaha YZ450F as its winner. Therefore, one could certainly argue that this bike...

Okay Goldmember, I'm your huckleberry. 

The MXA 450 shootout recently declared the 2023 Yamaha YZ450F as its winner. Therefore, one could certainly argue that this bike is currently "the best MX bike ever made." 

Okay, fine - let's do that. What I'll do now is a quick 10 point comparison between that bike and the Stark Varg.

1. Which bike is produces virtually no noise and thus can be ridden stealthily?

2. Which bike will never, ever, find a false neutral on a jump face?

3. Which bike will never, ever, seize its motor on a steep downhill double?

4. Which bike has an endlessly adjustable torque curve and power delivery that can change from 1 horsepower to 80 - and everything in-between - in mere seconds?

5. Which bike requires less maintenance?

6. Which bike is easier to ride for anyone from a beginner to a pro?

7. Which bike feels lighter - not on a scale, but on an actual track?

8. Which bike requires less shifting?

9. Which bike has adjustable engine braking?

10. Which bike has more range?

Hmmm. Near as I can tell, the poor, hapless, Yammy went one-for-ten on my comparison test. Therefore, I do hereby confirm Wass' various statements as true and do now declare the Stark Varg to be, indeed, "the best MX bike ever made."

Timo wrote:

I'm all for electric motors, but they can totally lock up if a bearing fails. Anything mechanical that spins has a possibility of locking up.

Oh please… a catastrophic bearing failure in a perfectly balanced motor? That‘s about as likely as being hit by a meteorite while riding your laps..

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Goldmember
Posts
671
Joined
12/23/2021
Location
Tel Aviv IL
5/22/2023 11:35pm
#434 wrote:
I like how you can see by the question and comments in this thread that it’s slowing dawning on a lot of people, that this thing...

I like how you can see by the question and comments in this thread that it’s slowing dawning on a lot of people, that this thing really is the game changer. 

E bikes have been 'good' in the performance and dynamics sense for well over 140 years; longer than combustion bikes. The Alta showed that it had good performance recently.

It is the major shortcomings of the range/weight/cost/convenience equation that has lead all to fail; and while they were alive, to be, basically, niche novelties.

On trajectory I think the Stark will be the same. 18 months in and no bikes delivered to ordinary customers.  Fancy gold leaf logos and CNC routed Swedish conifer timber tool boxes to one special dude are no substitute for hundreds of machines delivered, well at least to me that is. ;-)

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Last Braaap
Posts
1696
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4/19/2019
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow CZ
5/22/2023 11:48pm

Pro circuit or FMF pipe?

They make pipes for generators?

Nope... the quality of FMF welds isn't up to the snuff even for generators.

*sarcasm from unrelated thread*

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