Getting Started in Vintage MX

KennyT
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4371
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8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA US
Fantasy
5/16/2023 12:50pm

IMG 6445How fast do you want to go? I raced a 1972 CZ 400 and had the best time in that class. The bike was bulletproof and turns were very amusing with its low center of gravity and seat height. 

I also raced a 1980 YZ250 and it was an entirely different experience. Much faster class and of course more air time. Both of those bikes were easy to keep running and parts were not an issue. 
 

vintage tracks are awesome and so are the people. 
 

good luck and have fun 

 

1
ToolMaker
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11/19/2011
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Escondido, CA US
Fantasy
5/16/2023 5:47pm
KennyT wrote:
How fast do you want to go? I raced a 1972 CZ 400 and had the best time in that class. The bike was bulletproof and...

IMG 6445How fast do you want to go? I raced a 1972 CZ 400 and had the best time in that class. The bike was bulletproof and turns were very amusing with its low center of gravity and seat height. 

I also raced a 1980 YZ250 and it was an entirely different experience. Much faster class and of course more air time. Both of those bikes were easy to keep running and parts were not an issue. 
 

vintage tracks are awesome and so are the people. 
 

good luck and have fun 

 

Have started riding again yet? And what bike did you decide on?

1983YZ125
Posts
383
Joined
2/18/2018
Location
Gulf Shores, AL US
5/16/2023 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 6:16pm

Since you already ride trials; have you thought about vintage trials? STRA has a vintage class (not sure if you ride with them currently; you're a bit north of me and much closer to most of their events)

I've just finished my bike build, and doing my first event in the vintage class this weekend up at TTC. 

Screen Shot 2022-12-21 at 5.26.17 PM.jpg?VersionId= suv.DjzSPxgq

 

Regardless of what you end up doing; be smart about what bike you pick to ride and do your research. You will need parts, and some bikes are much easier (and cheaper) to source parts than others.

For example; the TY was relatively easy and can still buy a good bit of parts new from Rocky Mountain.

Currently building a Fantic 240 for my father, and that is a pain to find parts for; almost every order is from somewhere in Europe. 

 

2
Hasletjoe
Posts
598
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7/29/2013
Location
Haslet, TX US
5/16/2023 7:01pm

Keep in mind, racing a vintage bike is about the fun of riding an older bike. As mentioned, the brakes are a limiter, but the suspension is as well. You will need to be able to spin wrenches. And a lot of times the older rides will down right baffle you when the most unexpected item decides to fail.

The fun is chasing the parts you need, adapting modern parts (Shocks, seals, tires, etc...) to get your ride back on the track. You will meet a lot folks who careless about their finish and just are happy to not do the walk of shame (push your steed back).

Been doing this for quite a while and enjoy it to this day. The warning is that while he cost of vintage racing is tolerable, the collection sometimes can get a bit out of control (My name is joe and I am a vintage addict!)....

image-20230516205713-120150118 095745.jpg?VersionId=fSESTWLMeTejPlx6TE

 20150118 095805.jpg?VersionId=Xwjv8B1rN

 20150118 095826.jpg?VersionId=le 0aoY15I7K

 

7

The Shop

Wycked31
Posts
490
Joined
3/25/2014
Location
West Palm Beach, FL US
5/16/2023 7:07pm
Longleaf wrote:
Hi everyone,  I'm interested in getting involved in vintage motocross racing and am hoping to get some insight to the nuances of riding machinery from yesteryear...

Hi everyone, 

I'm interested in getting involved in vintage motocross racing and am hoping to get some insight to the nuances of riding machinery from yesteryear from those of you who are familiar with it (my youth is showing Silly).  I love the idea of the bikes, the culture, the history, and the chance to get into motocross (I come from woods racing and trials), but my concern is that--having come onto the scene only in the past decade--I might not get along with the vintage machinery.  Can someone who rides both modern and old bikes tell me more about the skillset required to ride each, and about how you transition from one to the other?  How do the differences in the clutches, brakes, and suspensions change the techniques you use and the way you navigate the track?  Can you take a vintage bike around a modern track without any trouble?

What other advice do you have for someone interested in getting into the vintage world?  I would love some advice on what eras and models of bikes to look for (I'm a 130lb gal, for reference, so no need for monster displacement).  I've heard glowing things about the culture of the vintage community and really look forward to getting involved.  

Thanks in advance!

 

Florida has the sunshine state series which covers north Florida. Great series

1
Bearuno
Posts
5248
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
5/16/2023 11:46pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2023 3:21am

Race Tech sells an emulator to upgrade FFF.  You do have to lop off a part of the Fox damping rod.

 There's a Kiwi Company run by a fellow (Glynn / Glen - I've forgotten his second name) who worked with Sports Motorcycles of Ducati /  Mike Hailwood's triumphant return to the TT fame and renown,  that does Externally adjustable Emulators.

But, they want a heck of a lot of money for them. Fair enough. 

I think it Is under the Sports Motorcycle name - he bought the name from Steve Wynne to my dim recollection. I try to avoid going back into "Ducatisti Land" , as I've enough involvement / tie ins with that side of things as it is. I try to stick with my making frames for some of them. And helping a mate with his Ducati workshop and Importation business, at times. "Retirement", is Bloody Busy!

If I were ever to put the 44s back into use, I'd do a Cartridge conversion . The Removable bottom fork slider cap and damper rod circlip retention in the stanchions really lend  the 44s to have a cartridge be fitted in, quite easily, with  some simple machining ( by my standards - I've 'done' suspension since the 70s). I don't think I'd bother making new Top caps , as Thor Lawson's Vintage and Evolution Suspension Products, last time I checked, had them at a price more appealing to me than machining some myself.

Longleaf
Posts
15
Joined
3/20/2023
Location
Clayton, AL US
5/17/2023 8:00am
731chopper wrote:
I raced a 1975 KX250 for a few years and ran the absolute piss out of it. It became my favorite bike of all time. Your...

42960360 2303550146327072 4571229028521869312 oI raced a 1975 KX250 for a few years and ran the absolute piss out of it. It became my favorite bike of all time. Your riding style doesn’t really need to be any different compared to a modern bike.
 

These old air cooled two strokes are awesome sounding when they’re ripping. Make sure you’re screaming it and you’ll need to shift a lot to keep it up in the RPM. That’s the biggest difference compared to a modern two stroke. You’re going to load it up if you lug it. 

 

Other than that you just have to realize you’re running drum brakes so the power isn’t anything like modern bikes meaning your braking points are going to be much different. Try to coast/flow in the corners more than hard braking as that’ll help not load the bike up, too. The old short travel bikes are surprisingly a lot of fun to jump. As long as you’re hitting the downsides smooth, you can jump a lot of stuff even on a modern track. Get some upgraded suspending though. Buy new adjustable shocks and put race tech emulators in the forks. 
 

I wish I still had time to race vintage. I had a hell of a lot of fun doing it. 
 

 

LOVE your bike!  And great advice on things to keep in mind when riding.  I'll definitely look into suspension upgrades.  Thanks!

Longleaf
Posts
15
Joined
3/20/2023
Location
Clayton, AL US
5/17/2023 8:02am
jt.hagerty wrote:
I currently race both modern XC and "vintage" moto/gran prix. I have a 2023 KTM XCF 250 and a 1980 Husky OR 390. The older bike...

I currently race both modern XC and "vintage" moto/gran prix. I have a 2023 KTM XCF 250 and a 1980 Husky OR 390. The older bike have a few quarks, brakes suck, suspension sucks, heavy, hard to start, clutch pull suck or it slips but, there is no better filling than passing a modern bike on the old one. 

There are two technique changes that I have to be mindful of when I race the Husky - back the corner up and stand up as much as possible. The best mod you can do to the older bikes is work on the suspension. My Husky has air shocks on the rear and 45mm Marchozzi forks. 

When you go to purchase an older bike first look at the class list for the series you plan to run, find a bike that you like and research to see if you can find parts before you buy the bike. Husky's seem to be the easiest older bikes to find parts for. I've had over 30 older bikes ranging from my 1980 Husky to a 1997 CR 125 and I feel like the Honda was actually harder to find parts for. 

Everyone in vintage racing are super nice, most of the time it is older folks who don't want to go out and race a newer bike super fast but still want to go out and have a good time. 

94017772-.jpg?VersionId=pJdpNdwQwa45DQsWqwQuBx5j2znu

 

Excellent tips on backing up the corner and standing--I'll remember that.  I'll put Husky at the top of my list.  It's convenient that I also think they're some of the best looking.  Haha.  Awesome photo, too.  Thanks for the info!

Longleaf
Posts
15
Joined
3/20/2023
Location
Clayton, AL US
5/17/2023 8:05am
Steve125 wrote:
I raced my RM465 last week. Often times my motos are back to back with the Modern class that I race with my 21 Rockstar 450...

I raced my RM465 last week. Often times my motos are back to back with the Modern class that I race with my 21 Rockstar 450. Adapting is pretty easy. Biggest difference is the forks. (I have Cone Valves on the Husky because I'm a Vet Lol)  To be honest, the Full Floater rear is way better than my 450's rear suspension. The legend is true.

As far as setup, I'd re-spring your vintage ride for your weight, Get some good shocks or rebuild yours, maybe get some Gold Valves in the forks, and run it. As far as choosing a bike, Think of a bike, then go on Partzilla and see what wear items are actually still available oem. Then go to Ebay and look for the discontinued stuff. There's a lot of stuff out there. I'd also consider getting a parts bike to grab stuff off of in an emergency (I needed a Stator real quick one race). 

Have fun. Some of the best memories I have are from traveling to all the ACR Vintage races back in 2018. Rode some legendary bikes on some legendary tracks and met some great people. 

RM465 Now.jpeg?VersionId=rsTdh1sdBy.oT0bH6ww1me13nxDq

 

Good suggestions on checking Partzilla and eBay.  It sounds like finding the right bike and doing parts research is going to be the ticket. 

I've never heard of the "full floater" rear, but I'm curious and will do some Googling. Beautiful bike you've got!

1
Longleaf
Posts
15
Joined
3/20/2023
Location
Clayton, AL US
5/17/2023 8:13am
Hasletjoe wrote:
Keep in mind, racing a vintage bike is about the fun of riding an older bike. As mentioned, the brakes are a limiter, but the suspension...

Keep in mind, racing a vintage bike is about the fun of riding an older bike. As mentioned, the brakes are a limiter, but the suspension is as well. You will need to be able to spin wrenches. And a lot of times the older rides will down right baffle you when the most unexpected item decides to fail.

The fun is chasing the parts you need, adapting modern parts (Shocks, seals, tires, etc...) to get your ride back on the track. You will meet a lot folks who careless about their finish and just are happy to not do the walk of shame (push your steed back).

Been doing this for quite a while and enjoy it to this day. The warning is that while he cost of vintage racing is tolerable, the collection sometimes can get a bit out of control (My name is joe and I am a vintage addict!)....

image-20230516205713-120150118 095745.jpg?VersionId=fSESTWLMeTejPlx6TE

 20150118 095805.jpg?VersionId=Xwjv8B1rN

 20150118 095826.jpg?VersionId=le 0aoY15I7K

 

Holy smokes!  What a collection!  

I admit to being rather a reluctant wrench-turner...but my husband loves it. He's the natural "team mechanic." He enjoys the parts hunting and restoration work and seeing a bike he worked on perform well.  Our plan is that he'll handle (and enjoy) the wrenching, and I can focus on riding, and it'll be a true "team effort" when we finish a race. 

We bought a blown up '03 GasGas for $500 a couple of years ago, my husband rebuilt it, and I finished a 24-hour race on it later that year.  We both took a lot of pride in that finish, and having done it on the rebuilt POS made it so much sweeter.  I expect that vintage racing will have a similar appeal. 

1
Longleaf
Posts
15
Joined
3/20/2023
Location
Clayton, AL US
5/17/2023 8:14am
KennyT wrote:
How fast do you want to go? I raced a 1972 CZ 400 and had the best time in that class. The bike was bulletproof and...

IMG 6445How fast do you want to go? I raced a 1972 CZ 400 and had the best time in that class. The bike was bulletproof and turns were very amusing with its low center of gravity and seat height. 

I also raced a 1980 YZ250 and it was an entirely different experience. Much faster class and of course more air time. Both of those bikes were easy to keep running and parts were not an issue. 
 

vintage tracks are awesome and so are the people. 
 

good luck and have fun 

 

What contributed to the difference in the bikes?  Just the technology improvements between those years, or was it more the specific design of each?

Longleaf
Posts
15
Joined
3/20/2023
Location
Clayton, AL US
5/17/2023 8:20am Edited Date/Time 5/17/2023 8:21am
1983YZ125 wrote:
Since you already ride trials; have you thought about vintage trials? STRA has a vintage class (not sure if you ride with them currently; you're a...

Since you already ride trials; have you thought about vintage trials? STRA has a vintage class (not sure if you ride with them currently; you're a bit north of me and much closer to most of their events)

I've just finished my bike build, and doing my first event in the vintage class this weekend up at TTC. 

Screen Shot 2022-12-21 at 5.26.17 PM.jpg?VersionId= suv.DjzSPxgq

 

Regardless of what you end up doing; be smart about what bike you pick to ride and do your research. You will need parts, and some bikes are much easier (and cheaper) to source parts than others.

For example; the TY was relatively easy and can still buy a good bit of parts new from Rocky Mountain.

Currently building a Fantic 240 for my father, and that is a pain to find parts for; almost every order is from somewhere in Europe. 

 

I actually do ride with STRA!  We plan to be at the event this weekend at TTC as well.  Wave me down if you see me.  My name is Caroline.  We actually bought an Ossa MAR last year and are working on restoring it, but I'm really itching to work my way into some speed/moto riding, hence the interest in vintage MX.  My husband will probably ride the Ossa when we finish it. 

That is a BEAUTIFUL TY.  Is that what you'll be riding this weekend? 

There's also a club called the North Georgia Vintage Trials Club that you might want to check out.  Might be a little far from you, but they're a great group of people.  I used to ride their events when we lived up there.  There's a fellow in that club with a Fantic 240 and he really does some amazing things on that bike.  Beats a lot of the modern bikes on it!

mx317
Posts
5296
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
5/17/2023 8:27am

IMG 2158 0.jpeg?VersionId=ROEbTGgJaS8.FNjV

 IMG 1389

Here are my two race bikes. I also have a garage queen I don’t ride. 

2
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
5/17/2023 8:27am
Steve125 wrote:
I raced my RM465 last week. Often times my motos are back to back with the Modern class that I race with my 21 Rockstar 450...

I raced my RM465 last week. Often times my motos are back to back with the Modern class that I race with my 21 Rockstar 450. Adapting is pretty easy. Biggest difference is the forks. (I have Cone Valves on the Husky because I'm a Vet Lol)  To be honest, the Full Floater rear is way better than my 450's rear suspension. The legend is true.

As far as setup, I'd re-spring your vintage ride for your weight, Get some good shocks or rebuild yours, maybe get some Gold Valves in the forks, and run it. As far as choosing a bike, Think of a bike, then go on Partzilla and see what wear items are actually still available oem. Then go to Ebay and look for the discontinued stuff. There's a lot of stuff out there. I'd also consider getting a parts bike to grab stuff off of in an emergency (I needed a Stator real quick one race). 

Have fun. Some of the best memories I have are from traveling to all the ACR Vintage races back in 2018. Rode some legendary bikes on some legendary tracks and met some great people. 

RM465 Now.jpeg?VersionId=rsTdh1sdBy.oT0bH6ww1me13nxDq

 

Those RM465s are sweet bikes. Suspension was very good and they were so easy to ride.

1
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
5/17/2023 9:45am
Hasletjoe wrote:
Keep in mind, racing a vintage bike is about the fun of riding an older bike. As mentioned, the brakes are a limiter, but the suspension...

Keep in mind, racing a vintage bike is about the fun of riding an older bike. As mentioned, the brakes are a limiter, but the suspension is as well. You will need to be able to spin wrenches. And a lot of times the older rides will down right baffle you when the most unexpected item decides to fail.

The fun is chasing the parts you need, adapting modern parts (Shocks, seals, tires, etc...) to get your ride back on the track. You will meet a lot folks who careless about their finish and just are happy to not do the walk of shame (push your steed back).

Been doing this for quite a while and enjoy it to this day. The warning is that while he cost of vintage racing is tolerable, the collection sometimes can get a bit out of control (My name is joe and I am a vintage addict!)....

image-20230516205713-120150118 095745.jpg?VersionId=fSESTWLMeTejPlx6TE

 20150118 095805.jpg?VersionId=Xwjv8B1rN

 20150118 095826.jpg?VersionId=le 0aoY15I7K

 

That is incredible! Awesome collection 👍

1983YZ125
Posts
383
Joined
2/18/2018
Location
Gulf Shores, AL US
5/17/2023 11:02am
Longleaf wrote:
I actually do ride with STRA!  We plan to be at the event this weekend at TTC as well.  Wave me down if you see me. ...

I actually do ride with STRA!  We plan to be at the event this weekend at TTC as well.  Wave me down if you see me.  My name is Caroline.  We actually bought an Ossa MAR last year and are working on restoring it, but I'm really itching to work my way into some speed/moto riding, hence the interest in vintage MX.  My husband will probably ride the Ossa when we finish it. 

That is a BEAUTIFUL TY.  Is that what you'll be riding this weekend? 

There's also a club called the North Georgia Vintage Trials Club that you might want to check out.  Might be a little far from you, but they're a great group of people.  I used to ride their events when we lived up there.  There's a fellow in that club with a Fantic 240 and he really does some amazing things on that bike.  Beats a lot of the modern bikes on it!

I'll have the TY and my Sherco out there this weekend, probably do 1 day on each assuming no issues out of the TY. This will be the first real ride on it outside of playing out at our property. We should arrive sometime Friday afternoon. 

My wife will be disappointed she's not going this time; she's always excited to meet other girl riders. 

 

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