Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
You had to go all the way to Spain? Lol, okay.
I understand that Varg was meant to compete with the 450s, and at some point it “may” (probably won’t ever happen). At this point, e-bikes like the Talaria/Surron are improving and selling at an alarming rate. Stark took a gamble on waiting a couple of years before producing a product, it’s gonna be a stretch to think these other companies and technology won’t be viable competitors.
How are they doing on the mx tracks?
They aren’t meant for that (yet). And I guess if Varg’s target audience is wealthy local/amateur/non-pro MX only, then it’s certainly a viable alternative (when it’s available).
The Surron/Talaria market-crowd is completely unpredictable, but it is growing rapidly and modifications are appearing daily and have been over the last 2-3 years.
I’d like to see the look on Honda and the OEMs faces at an industry meeting when Feld, DC, and the AMA announce that they will allow the Varg to compete in SX/ MX and that AMA will add an amendment to the AMA Pro Racing Rulebook to allow E-bikes to race. Hahaha
That’s just simply not gonna happen in at least the next 2-3 maybe 5 years. Lol
By then, how much will a Varg cost vs a Surron/Talaria type bike? Yeahh okay
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Surron and Talaria have no intention of producing motocross bikes that compete with modern day 250 and 450fs, again this is a completely different market and volume play. On one had you have Chinese made play bikes (that are incredibly fun for their intended use and price range), and on the other you have a purpose built motocross machine with the very best available battery technology built to withstand hundreds of hours of pro level riding. I don’t understand where this pipe dream is coming from of a $8k motorcycle that is somehow going to magically compete with $11k gas machines, it’s not going to happen, and if it did you’re going to have so many design and material compromises that it would be an absolute turd of a bike. People think it’s easy to build efficient controllers, batteries, phone apps, and everything else that goes into making an E-bike “good”, but in reality it takes extremely sophisticated processes and testing to get to an optimal level that will withstand high level motocross riding.
At this point I would be shocked to see even the big 5(7) manufacturers produce a machine as capable as the Varg within the next few years.
All good points.
So, can you have a pro MX/ SX series without the OEMs? And/Or will the OEMs abandon gas bikes and build E-bikes to compete in a yet-to-be-developed MX/SX racing series with purse money?
As posted by one of the Varg representatives in another forum. . . .
Hi guys. I don't mean disrespect for Mark, but if you look back at his posts he's been pretty negative about the Varg. I would consider it borderline spreading FUD.
To reiterate, what I've stated on that, and other forums was the following (at the time the data was released by Stark). And to clarify, I was one of the first buyers of the Alta MX back in 2017. I kept it until just recently as used prices started to fall fast. I am not on the Varg pre-order list (I bought a 2023 300SX)
1) I doubt the Varg will come within 15lbs of the advertised/predicted weight which was equivalent to a 2020/21 KTM 450.
2) I doubt the Varg will make full power for the duration of a 30 minute plus two laps on a MXGP track with a MXGP rider.
3) I doubt the Varg battery will make a 30 minute plus two laps on a MXGP track with a MXGP rider (kinda like #2).
4) I doubt the Varg battery will make a local Pro/A class race (20 minutes) in hot weather (100F plus) without thermal limiting/intervention.
5) I highly doubt the Varg will make the second moto after charging (without any external cooling tricks) of a local Pro/A class race (20 minutes) in hot weather (100F plus) without thermal limiting/intervention.
6) I'd be amazed if the Varg handles as good or better (as advertised) than any current MX bike as it's taken these mfgs years to perfect their chassis and one little change can alter the characteristics considerably (good and bad, look at the recent KTMs as an example).
7) I believe parts will be an issue for all the early deliveries until a network of fully inventoried dealerships/outlets are established. Remember the ridiculous prices asked and paid for the few parts Alta had available? It was literally a black market. Even in the mist of all the hype and sales, Alta didn't have any extra battery packs to sell regardless of how much you'd pay. And they weren't even exporting while Stark is based in and probably has allegiance to the European countries. The Alta at least used many KTM/aftermarket based parts as we all learned.
8) Any electronic issue will cause major downtime while service techs are trained and/or parts sent/returned from Europe. Frankly, even after a couple years Alta had no electronic repair capability outside the factory (and a few people like me).
9) That the Varg looked like a definite step (not leap) forward from the Alta. It would be faster, lighter and a better MX bike in general. However, in my opinion it would not be a "game changer" for those looking for significantly less weight and more range equivalent to a gas MX bike (maybe with the exception of the Suzuki, sorry Suzuki owners) unless it's used in a "putt putt" mode.
10) That the bike would be great for Vet racing and other "unclassified" categories. The lure for a young, up-and-coming B or A class rider will be limited to the open class if the racing organization even allows it. Any AMA sanctioned completion other than the Vet classes just isn't in the cards right now. If you're fast, under 25, and looking at LL's or Mammoth you don't have a choice. Plus, riding one of the big 6 (or 7/8) is the only way to get shop/aftermarket and/or factory support to help you with the cost of racing. The demographic and market are pretty slim right now. Alta faced the same dilemma, so they tried to push into markets even less tolerant to the limitations of electric. The beginning of the end.
HOWEVER - Soon we'll all be able to judge for ourselves. There'll be the initial "rush to be the first" test articles of course. When the Alta was first released to the magazine folks, I don't remember reading a bad word. One of the reasons I was probably the first in SoCal to buy one. It was only after the "honeymoon period" that reports of limited range, thermal limiting, battery pack issues, parts availability problems, non-existent dealer service support, etc, started to leak its way onto social media. Only then it could be said that buyers were truly informed consumers.
So, I'll revisit this post in six or eight months and see which of my predictions held true and where I was full of SH--! I've been known to be wrong before . . . . . . hopefully I'll be wrong more than I'm right in the case of the Varg.
Well everyone's entitled to their opinion.
Everytime I see a new post notification I hope its Bryan with the tracking info or an opening the crate video. And so far its just been more arguments against the concept. Time for speculation and and arguing without data to back it up is getting closer to coming to an end. Soon we will find out if Stark is just a really great promotional company, or if they have changed the world of Motocross racing.
Kawasaki has already said they will be all Electric by a certain year. And just about all of the current motocross bike manufactures have agreed to develop a shared battery platform. So they will have Electric MX bikes sometime . I hope they are waiting to see what the Varg does in the real world and then they put out what they have if its close to the Varg . But that part is hopes and dreams, mixed in with a little Psychic feelings.
I think all of the manufactures play a part in the rulemaking process for Pro MX and SX racing in the US so I imagine that until they have a bike ready, or close to ready that there will not be any rule changes to allow the Varg into pro racing. I think that is a mistake on their parts. It makes it look like they are afraid of Stark's bike being better. So maybe they will let it in sooner , maybe if Stark puts a team together they could be racing in AMA MX and SX next year.
When the Varg's come out, You will be able to race them in many many more local originations and be competitive.If you tried to race a Sur-ron or similar style bike if you could find a class it would fit into, who knows how you would do. The Sur-ron style bikes are a bike without a class. The Varg is designed to compete against 450's . You can Race an Alta in the age classes, and Open classes at most local tracks. And price wise its not really much different than a Gas bike after you put a pipe on and have the suspension valved and sprung for you. The App the Varg comes with will allow you to tune it to have a much wider range of power levels than is possible on a gas bike. And the suspension comes setup for the person who ordered it , to their weight , style of riding and ability. Not sure if Varg's that come from a dealer will also have that standard or not. And for a play bike ,I hear amazing things about the Sur-ron's Segway, and that style bike. But they are definatly not in the smae class.
How many Pro level racers are there in the world? None of the current brands are selling bikes that are just for Pros, or Pro racing. Pro racing is a way to prove a product against others. If they are not let into race against them, Stark can then claim they are not allowed in because their bikes would beet the gas bikes. Chances are that unless they also had a top level rider on it, that it would not be winning races no matter how good it is, Unless its a bigger advantage than I see . It wouldn't surprise me to be an amazing SX bike.
It's not that everyone is a pro or not, it's that Stark promised those things and I was calling them out on it. I was proved correct on the weight promise, so we'll see over time how many other promises are validated.
Ha, ha so if the Stark made more power or weighed less then they still broke their promise?
Alta did not have the benefit of being second to build an EMX bike.
Stark has a giant in the motorcycle industry that invested in them that they can lean on for advice and getting parts and dealer inventory setup. Alta was a tiny operation compared to Stark.
I too wonder about it being the best handling. BUT all of the existing bikes all have the same giant rotating weight on them that the Varg will not have. So that could be a key to how they got it right.
Like another poster posted, Sur-rons are selling like hotcakes. A varg is a step up from one of those bikes that You can probable get away with riding in all of the same places. So if there is that much interest in Sur-ron style bikes, I could see Stark being able to sell enough bikes to build the dealer network up to a level Alta dreamed of. They could probable come out with a Sur-ron competitor in another year. And a street commuter bike based off the Varg that would be great for people in City's . Now with the known demand for Sur-rons, If the Varg is as good as or even close to what they claim. They should be able to make their own sur-ron sized bike to help with bring in funds.
I'm sure there will be some downsides to the Varg. Even if Pros are unable to do a 30 + 2 moto, I don't think that is the end of the world for Stark. I hope that people start to try and find the downsides ealy in the release of the Varg and include them in their opinions. A bike that everybody says is perfect , sounds too good to be true, even if it is. Its always easier to be the second at something than the first. Stark has that advantage so they may be able to be the first to make an impact in racing with electric. And KTM and the Japanese brands will let Stark do all that R&D for them. Hopefully the Japanese are not as conservative with their EMX bikes as they have been with their Sport SXS's . And they bring something out that is on par or better at some point.
This thread is like a winning golden ticket to Willy Wonka world. You hear all of the stories about how badass the Stark is and the guys with the golden tickets rave about this mysterious machine but in all reality this bike is not to be truly judged until it is released to the masses so it can be viewed fairly good or bad. I'm not willing to plunk out a down payment to something that is not really in production as of today or if it is what it's hyped up to be by a few.
If you have to fly to a foreign country to test ride one and there is no real time frame to when the public can actually purchase it, then to me it's just a worthless thought.
I agree that the OEMs are waiting to see what’s gonna come out. There’s a whole lot going on right now with e-technology.
Stark could be a pioneer, or be slightly ahead of their time and fizzle out, while bigger manufacturers (OEMs) take the idea and implement it successfully after the smaller companies have failed.
I find it funny as hell that on this forum people trust it enough to ask every question under the son, I.e. wife probs, boot cleaner, helmets, pipes, oils, bikes, injuries etc. etc. but don’t trust the word of a frequent member about the performance of the Stark. It’s intriguing that it’s just glossed over as if it never happened all because he can’t “answer” all your questions and then turns to conspiracy. Humans!
the key to the great handling of the old Maico's wasn't a great frame design. it was the chain driven primary that canceled out the engine gyro effect to a large degree. and I'm not a wolf fan. is this the first mx bike to be named after an animal?
wait, Hodaka did that with the wombat.
I don’t think anyone doubts its performance, it’s just that no one has one yet.
Y’all need meds.
Pit Row
Yeah also mind blowing that people act as if nothing in their life has ever been delayed. Weird!
Found it !
Maybe ..
It's one of these ;
What is that? So you know someone who already has one? You obviously have more information than we do. So how many have already been shipped and received? It looks like a lot by that map. Do you have a link? How did they get theirs before Bryan?
There is fuck all going on with the sort of E tech applicable to MX bikes actually.
Li ion battery power density/operating requirements is maxed at woeful, with nothing on the horizon better. That is all that matters.
The E hire scooters in my city have as much or more tech as the hypothetical Varg.
There aren't many ships that depart Barcelona and head to the US, likely to be the Chicago Express...
There's nothing hypothetical about it, I literally just rode a production bike and watched others roll off the assembly line with my own two eyes.
20 years down the track there will be a Red Bull Straight Rhythm, 4 strokes only….
More Stark bullshit.
Proof is what, where?
Maybe we are wrong, and the Stark is the worlds greatest bike after all.
https://instagram.com/p/CsHWd9atTYj/
Here ya go, video proof of riding it on MX and SX yesterday.
Someone rattling around on one of the old bullshit specials is proof? LOL
Where is the video of hundreds of bikes coming off the production line?
Post a reply to: Stark Varg - First Customer Review