Stark Varg Reviews

JM485
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Davis, CA US
4/13/2023 8:39pm

Again, I don't understand the point some of you are trying to make.  Ya, no shit the grid can't handle a massive wave of electric cars, that's not some novel conclusion that people are just now waking up to that's been evident to anyone clued in for a very long time.  We're talking about an electric dirtbike we all want to just have fun on and somehow you whack jobs have extrapolated way past the relevant part of the data curve into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with what this thread is about.  We're not talking about electrification, we're not talking about smart fridges, we're talking about an electric dirtbike from a PRIVATE (read: not the government) company that wants to make a performance product to compete with gas machines and profit from that vision.  What the hell is so hard to grasp about that?  Nobody buying a Stark wants to take your gas bike away, Stark does not want to take your gas bike away, what massive chasm of logic are you jumping over to connect all of this together?      

13
6
Last Braaap
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Somewhere over the rainbow CZ
4/13/2023 10:48pm
JM485 wrote:
Again, I don't understand the point some of you are trying to make.  Ya, no shit the grid can't handle a massive wave of electric cars...

Again, I don't understand the point some of you are trying to make.  Ya, no shit the grid can't handle a massive wave of electric cars, that's not some novel conclusion that people are just now waking up to that's been evident to anyone clued in for a very long time.  We're talking about an electric dirtbike we all want to just have fun on and somehow you whack jobs have extrapolated way past the relevant part of the data curve into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with what this thread is about.  We're not talking about electrification, we're not talking about smart fridges, we're talking about an electric dirtbike from a PRIVATE (read: not the government) company that wants to make a performance product to compete with gas machines and profit from that vision.  What the hell is so hard to grasp about that?  Nobody buying a Stark wants to take your gas bike away, Stark does not want to take your gas bike away, what massive chasm of logic are you jumping over to connect all of this together?      

Now we wait for AI to read your post.

 

P.S. It was on point

1

The Shop

Sandusky26
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3403
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Eastern, NC US
4/14/2023 7:09am
By the time all bikes at the track are EV you won’t be charging with generators.  Not a chance.  And don’t bother towing a big trailer...

By the time all bikes at the track are EV you won’t be charging with generators.  Not a chance.  And don’t bother towing a big trailer because you won’t be able to with whatever E-truck you’ve got.  At least do that and still get home. Oh this is going to be such an awesome future.

Just charge the bike off the electric pickup truck's massive 125+kwh battery. That's what i plan to do once I'm able to get one. No need...

Just charge the bike off the electric pickup truck's massive 125+kwh battery. That's what i plan to do once I'm able to get one. No need for a generator at that point.

Lol Mr. #1.  Why not just plug it in and ride with a really long extension cord.

You can't fuck with money.

1
4/14/2023 7:54am

         Zahrt the Dart ! The guy weighed 150 lbs , as long as he had 20 lbs of lead in his pocket !

             He sure as Hell could ride tho……        

4/14/2023 8:07am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2023 8:08am
ML512 wrote:

Couldn't stand the handlebar rear brake when I tried one. A game changer would be a very personal opinion there.

What bike did you try it on? I first tried it on my Alta MXR a few years ago and I didnt like it. On the Varg i had a much different experience and was shocked how good it was.

6
vet323
Posts
3592
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7/31/2010
Location
Lead, SD US
4/14/2023 8:09am
JM485 wrote:
Again, I don't understand the point some of you are trying to make.  Ya, no shit the grid can't handle a massive wave of electric cars...

Again, I don't understand the point some of you are trying to make.  Ya, no shit the grid can't handle a massive wave of electric cars, that's not some novel conclusion that people are just now waking up to that's been evident to anyone clued in for a very long time.  We're talking about an electric dirtbike we all want to just have fun on and somehow you whack jobs have extrapolated way past the relevant part of the data curve into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with what this thread is about.  We're not talking about electrification, we're not talking about smart fridges, we're talking about an electric dirtbike from a PRIVATE (read: not the government) company that wants to make a performance product to compete with gas machines and profit from that vision.  What the hell is so hard to grasp about that?  Nobody buying a Stark wants to take your gas bike away, Stark does not want to take your gas bike away, what massive chasm of logic are you jumping over to connect all of this together?      

To be fair, EV bikes are being portrayed (even in this thread) as the "Future of the Sport", not "Future of Part of the Sport".

6
fourfourone
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86oh, CT US
4/14/2023 8:19am
As a track owner I’d love to know how many 240V charging points you’ll be installing for when you have 300+ battery bikes getting ready for...

As a track owner I’d love to know how many 240V charging points you’ll be installing for when you have 300+ battery bikes getting ready for the next moto.  Generators will be outlawed before we have all BatBikes on every line of every class.

A big battery pack to charge instead of outlets. There is a power tool company that has a setup like that for their electric power  equipment...

A big battery pack to charge instead of outlets. There is a power tool company that has a setup like that for their electric power  equipment. It can fast charge the tool batteries in 8 minutes .  I've seen stuff about recovery companies working on a similar type of device to quick charge dead cars on the side of the road. 

 

I have customers talking about buying a big bank of generators , like a tractor trailer size and going to tracks to offer charging .  If I had a track I would try and get one of the solar fiend companies to come in and  see if they could build  carport like structures with solar panels on them. Charge bikes on ride/race days and sell the power to the grid on the off days. It's not possible everywhere. But in the right locations it could be a way to fix the charging problem, offer some shade and extra cash for the track owners or a less expensive way of getting charging setup at their tracks. It would also provide a beefy connection to the grid . So on race days maybe they draw power from the grid, and off days they send it out. I'm not sure how the $$ would work out. But solar farms are popping up all over the place , on some expensive land. So it could work.

Hey I used to work for Doosan Fuel Cell America.  It takes 4 acres of solar panels to equal the output of just 1 of their...

Hey I used to work for Doosan Fuel Cell America.  It takes 4 acres of solar panels to equal the output of just 1 of their fuel cells and you only need about 1/4 acre for everything involved.  The actual fuel cell is only $2.5 million plus all the installation involved.  Sounds like a pretty good solution for tracks with all the leftover profits they have.  The government will be looking at all that room the track has and think “we can just put solar panels all over this open land”.  There is the beginnings of discussion involving eminent domain regarding suitable land for green energy.  With what I’m seeing happening right now that doesn’t seem far-fetched of becoming reality.

Small world. Doosan Fuel Cell is South Windsor is one of my customers. 

Titan1
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9411
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Location
Lehi, UT US
4/14/2023 8:37am
ML512 wrote:

Couldn't stand the handlebar rear brake when I tried one. A game changer would be a very personal opinion there.

What bike did you try it on? I first tried it on my Alta MXR a few years ago and I didnt like it. On the...

What bike did you try it on? I first tried it on my Alta MXR a few years ago and I didnt like it. On the Varg i had a much different experience and was shocked how good it was.

coughconfirmationbiascough

 

3
Rad76
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406
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Location
Elk Grove Village, IL US
4/14/2023 8:46am
ML512 wrote:

Couldn't stand the handlebar rear brake when I tried one. A game changer would be a very personal opinion there.

I tried it for my two last sessions on the Stark and loved it. First, having a lever on the left seems more normal to me, it felt weird having nothing there. Once i was used to it, it was indeed a game changer. For me, i can understand it's not the case for eveyone. 

Tim507
Posts
3477
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Location
Oregon City, OR US
4/14/2023 8:51am
ML512 wrote:

Couldn't stand the handlebar rear brake when I tried one. A game changer would be a very personal opinion there.

What bike did you try it on? I first tried it on my Alta MXR a few years ago and I didnt like it. On the...

What bike did you try it on? I first tried it on my Alta MXR a few years ago and I didnt like it. On the Varg i had a much different experience and was shocked how good it was.

I have the Clake Brake on my 300 TPI (with the rear brake) and is (IMV) a game changer. I ride a lot of techncial single track and it is awesome. It is a learned skill as my Freeride and my Epure have the left hand brake - come to think about is so does my E-Mtn Bike. 

My gas MX bikes don't have the left brake and never will.....

4/14/2023 9:28am
By the time all bikes at the track are EV you won’t be charging with generators.  Not a chance.  And don’t bother towing a big trailer...

By the time all bikes at the track are EV you won’t be charging with generators.  Not a chance.  And don’t bother towing a big trailer because you won’t be able to with whatever E-truck you’ve got.  At least do that and still get home. Oh this is going to be such an awesome future.

The generator idea was more of an in between idea.   The battery chargers for outdoor power equipment already exist . If the range is similar to...

The generator idea was more of an in between idea.   The battery chargers for outdoor power equipment already exist . If the range is similar to a full tank of gas on a 450. Many local racers do not even need to top off their tanks. I do not think you will see all electric until the range is similar .What is the % of riders who ride at top pro level speeds ?  Those would be the guys that will have trouble with Electric.  I think that Electric will be a bottom up revolution instead of the top down way that 4 strokes came in.  Electric range , if the Varg is close to what they say it is,, will work for many of the racers out there already when combined with a generator  gas or battery/solar powered. So the C and B class racers, the Vet racers , the smaller displacement bikes. Those will be the first to be able to go all electric with the current batteries and available power storage systems. 

Getting Electric into the Pro level racing is going to take more time. You will have pushback from all of the companies without e bikes( like you see with 2 strokes now). The batteries will keep developing and by the time  there are enough brands of electric bikes to not oppose them from being let into Pro racing there will be some basic infrastructure already in place at local tracks .

 

If they could get the charge time down to 10 minutes. And each race was 20 minutes. Put 50 chargers in down by the gate in stageing. When you go to the gate you plug in. They could setup the charger's so that it would alert you to go to the gate in the order your gate pick was.  Yes its not like it is now, But  local races are normally getting staged as the other race is on the track. So you might  have to get the the line 10 minutes sooner.  That would be a way of getting a work around in place  if they can get the bike batteries to charge as fast as the power tool batteries I've seen for Mowers and blowers.  By the time you have racers that will need to recharge from dead to full, in between motos ( if the Varg has similar range to a full tank on a 450) I would think the fast charging should be close. 

 

The battery powered fast chargers would not be the giant trailers. They would only need to have enough power to recharge 3 or 4 times  max. If a full charge is similar to the range of a full tank, for pro level racers to do 4 30+ 2 moto's on 1 bike.  And I am just a guy that sees how electric powered MX bikes can be fun, can solve some issues at smaller tracks built inside or in built up areas. I have knocked many IQ points off my score with all of the hits to my head. SO I imagine all the smart guys that stand to make million on these machines can come up with some better ideas than I have.  Maybe You could show everybody how smart you are by figuring out how to do what you feel is impossible? Because if gas goes away like you say, and Electric is the only option, killing off electric MX bikes will only kill the sport.  

Titan1 wrote:
All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport...

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport like structures with solar panels on them? Massive generator?

 

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

3
8
vet323
Posts
3592
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7/31/2010
Location
Lead, SD US
4/14/2023 10:23am
There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all...

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

I don't hate electric bikes. I don't care how my MX bike is powered as long as it's fun to ride.

This is a Stark Varg review thread, but as far as I know nobody has actually ridden a production Varg. That's why the speculation is all over the place. If energy storage issues are solved, solar farming could potentially be viable as part of a charging source, but I'm not sure you have a realistic idea how large a solar array would have to be (at current tech) to provide enough energy to charge 100 dirtbikes.

1
GrapeApe
Posts
8816
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Location
Mc Kinney, TX US
4/14/2023 10:30am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2023 10:31am
By the time all bikes at the track are EV you won’t be charging with generators.  Not a chance.  And don’t bother towing a big trailer...

By the time all bikes at the track are EV you won’t be charging with generators.  Not a chance.  And don’t bother towing a big trailer because you won’t be able to with whatever E-truck you’ve got.  At least do that and still get home. Oh this is going to be such an awesome future.

The generator idea was more of an in between idea.   The battery chargers for outdoor power equipment already exist . If the range is similar to...

The generator idea was more of an in between idea.   The battery chargers for outdoor power equipment already exist . If the range is similar to a full tank of gas on a 450. Many local racers do not even need to top off their tanks. I do not think you will see all electric until the range is similar .What is the % of riders who ride at top pro level speeds ?  Those would be the guys that will have trouble with Electric.  I think that Electric will be a bottom up revolution instead of the top down way that 4 strokes came in.  Electric range , if the Varg is close to what they say it is,, will work for many of the racers out there already when combined with a generator  gas or battery/solar powered. So the C and B class racers, the Vet racers , the smaller displacement bikes. Those will be the first to be able to go all electric with the current batteries and available power storage systems. 

Getting Electric into the Pro level racing is going to take more time. You will have pushback from all of the companies without e bikes( like you see with 2 strokes now). The batteries will keep developing and by the time  there are enough brands of electric bikes to not oppose them from being let into Pro racing there will be some basic infrastructure already in place at local tracks .

 

If they could get the charge time down to 10 minutes. And each race was 20 minutes. Put 50 chargers in down by the gate in stageing. When you go to the gate you plug in. They could setup the charger's so that it would alert you to go to the gate in the order your gate pick was.  Yes its not like it is now, But  local races are normally getting staged as the other race is on the track. So you might  have to get the the line 10 minutes sooner.  That would be a way of getting a work around in place  if they can get the bike batteries to charge as fast as the power tool batteries I've seen for Mowers and blowers.  By the time you have racers that will need to recharge from dead to full, in between motos ( if the Varg has similar range to a full tank on a 450) I would think the fast charging should be close. 

 

The battery powered fast chargers would not be the giant trailers. They would only need to have enough power to recharge 3 or 4 times  max. If a full charge is similar to the range of a full tank, for pro level racers to do 4 30+ 2 moto's on 1 bike.  And I am just a guy that sees how electric powered MX bikes can be fun, can solve some issues at smaller tracks built inside or in built up areas. I have knocked many IQ points off my score with all of the hits to my head. SO I imagine all the smart guys that stand to make million on these machines can come up with some better ideas than I have.  Maybe You could show everybody how smart you are by figuring out how to do what you feel is impossible? Because if gas goes away like you say, and Electric is the only option, killing off electric MX bikes will only kill the sport.  

Titan1 wrote:
All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport...

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport like structures with solar panels on them? Massive generator?

 

If a track owner can't find a way to make charging stations a major revenue boost he is a terrible businessman. Sell the rights to a 3rd party or invest in the infrastructure yourself, either way the track owner would have close to a monopoly on "race fuel".

 

4
4
Titan1
Posts
9411
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
4/14/2023 10:32am
The generator idea was more of an in between idea.   The battery chargers for outdoor power equipment already exist . If the range is similar to...

The generator idea was more of an in between idea.   The battery chargers for outdoor power equipment already exist . If the range is similar to a full tank of gas on a 450. Many local racers do not even need to top off their tanks. I do not think you will see all electric until the range is similar .What is the % of riders who ride at top pro level speeds ?  Those would be the guys that will have trouble with Electric.  I think that Electric will be a bottom up revolution instead of the top down way that 4 strokes came in.  Electric range , if the Varg is close to what they say it is,, will work for many of the racers out there already when combined with a generator  gas or battery/solar powered. So the C and B class racers, the Vet racers , the smaller displacement bikes. Those will be the first to be able to go all electric with the current batteries and available power storage systems. 

Getting Electric into the Pro level racing is going to take more time. You will have pushback from all of the companies without e bikes( like you see with 2 strokes now). The batteries will keep developing and by the time  there are enough brands of electric bikes to not oppose them from being let into Pro racing there will be some basic infrastructure already in place at local tracks .

 

If they could get the charge time down to 10 minutes. And each race was 20 minutes. Put 50 chargers in down by the gate in stageing. When you go to the gate you plug in. They could setup the charger's so that it would alert you to go to the gate in the order your gate pick was.  Yes its not like it is now, But  local races are normally getting staged as the other race is on the track. So you might  have to get the the line 10 minutes sooner.  That would be a way of getting a work around in place  if they can get the bike batteries to charge as fast as the power tool batteries I've seen for Mowers and blowers.  By the time you have racers that will need to recharge from dead to full, in between motos ( if the Varg has similar range to a full tank on a 450) I would think the fast charging should be close. 

 

The battery powered fast chargers would not be the giant trailers. They would only need to have enough power to recharge 3 or 4 times  max. If a full charge is similar to the range of a full tank, for pro level racers to do 4 30+ 2 moto's on 1 bike.  And I am just a guy that sees how electric powered MX bikes can be fun, can solve some issues at smaller tracks built inside or in built up areas. I have knocked many IQ points off my score with all of the hits to my head. SO I imagine all the smart guys that stand to make million on these machines can come up with some better ideas than I have.  Maybe You could show everybody how smart you are by figuring out how to do what you feel is impossible? Because if gas goes away like you say, and Electric is the only option, killing off electric MX bikes will only kill the sport.  

Titan1 wrote:
All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport...

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport like structures with solar panels on them? Massive generator?

 

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all...

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

I think You have the record for the longest posts on vital….holy smokes bro…every one of your posts is a novel…less is more sometimes.

 

Im not an electric hater…I own an electric dirt bike. And I love it…except the range.  

1
2
GrapeApe
Posts
8816
Joined
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Location
Mc Kinney, TX US
4/14/2023 10:37am

Left Hand Rear Brake is a game changer. 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR3HN6W8/

ML512 wrote:

Couldn't stand the handlebar rear brake when I tried one. A game changer would be a very personal opinion there.

I think if I ever tried a hand brake I would have to go with a cycling setup of rear brake on the right front on the left. Or just stick to the standard moto and mtb setups.

1
GrapeApe
Posts
8816
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX US
4/14/2023 10:38am
Titan1 wrote:
All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport...

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport like structures with solar panels on them? Massive generator?

 

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all...

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

Titan1 wrote:
I think You have the record for the longest posts on vital….holy smokes bro…every one of your posts is a novel…less is more sometimes.   Im...

I think You have the record for the longest posts on vital….holy smokes bro…every one of your posts is a novel…less is more sometimes.

 

Im not an electric hater…I own an electric dirt bike. And I love it…except the range.  

I may have said the same thing as sasquatch in my reply to you, but I don't know because TLDR. lol

1
1
4/14/2023 11:40am
There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all...

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

vet323 wrote:
I don't hate electric bikes. I don't care how my MX bike is powered as long as it's fun to ride. This is a Stark Varg...

I don't hate electric bikes. I don't care how my MX bike is powered as long as it's fun to ride.

This is a Stark Varg review thread, but as far as I know nobody has actually ridden a production Varg. That's why the speculation is all over the place. If energy storage issues are solved, solar farming could potentially be viable as part of a charging source, but I'm not sure you have a realistic idea how large a solar array would have to be (at current tech) to provide enough energy to charge 100 dirtbikes.

 Why would they need to charge 100 bikes at a time?   Lets assume the Varg can go 25 minutes at Pro speed.  a lot of C class and vet racers could possible get practice and a Moto , maybe 2 out of a charge. How often do you fill your tank? Its been a longtime since I raced , but I could do my practice , and  2 motos at southwick on a single tank on my 450 in the B class. 3 laps practice, 4 lap first moto and 20 plus 2 second moto.  So if a Emx bike has a similar range you wouldn't need to charge from 0 to 100% for many people. 

And I do not have a real idea as far as the amount of panels it would take. But like I said, if you have a solar farm , you would have a connection to the grid. So maybe the meter spins backwards on off days and you pull power on race days. either way you have the connection to the grid power  to supplement the solar and have that beefy grid connection to handle  the power that would be needed to charge the bikes.

 

I think that by the time there are that many electric MX bikes at a track , the charging speeds will be much faster than now.  I think the average racer might top off their charge and might just need to go from 40% to 75% to be able to run their motos.  You do not need to go from empty to 100% every time you charge. They do not have the memory issues nicads do. 

I imagine that the amount of power it takes to charge a EMX bike up would be less than a Tesla model 3. Which costs $10-$15 to charge from close to 0 to 100% at my rates at my shop.  If you charged $20 per day or $10 per charge  for charging acces that should be profitable if your able to get a solar farm and the grid connection in for free or be paid for it.  There are so many things that will cost less with electric, and some that will cost more. When I was working for a developer the power company would give us the wire for free to run the underground power in the new roads and also to the houses. They charged for poles, but if we dug and buried the wire it was free.     

I know that less can be more. But I am lazy and just type my thoughts out as they come through my head. And if you do not hate electric bikes then your not a hater of electric bikes.So wouldn't that not apply to you? 

Hasn't Brian ridden a production Varg?  

 

I think that most of the electric haters have never ridden or driven a performance electric vehicle and are going off of 3rd party info. Of course range and charging speed will be issues at first. But like I've said a million times, todays EV's will not be tomorrow's EV's and for EV's to overtake Gas and Diesel they will have to have longer range and quicker charging speeds to be viable for some of the market. 

 

Look at the price of any new electronic tech when it first came out VS at its peak use and end of life cycle. VCR's were $400 in the 1980's when they first came out and by the time they died off you could get a new VCR/DVD combo for $79.99.  Camcorders, $1000+  at first around the sametime. now you can get a camera with better image quality and more storage space for $60 or less.  Big screen TV's   same thing. 3or 4K for a 65" now you can get one for $299.   If and when bigger manufactures like Honda get into electric they will be able to share so much more between models as far as powertrain and then the cost goes way down to produce the bikes. As soon as somebody is able to make a competitive EMX bike  the clock starts to a countdown to when the prices can be half of what they are to begin with. All it takes is one company to do it and the others will have to also.  The motors could be shared across  all types of vehicles if they design them from the start to be able to work that way. Have 5 motors that could handle the entire range of bikes,atv's and UTV's  maybe even extend into cars by using multiple motors and or in wheel motors. 

 

I hope they can start delivering bikes soon so we can all see how they really are.  And remember no matter how good the Varg is, its just the start.  Its kinda like the YZ426 where the 400 was the Alta.  And then compared to todays 450's. The Varg may not be the bike of tomorrow, it might be, But if its close, it will be the spark that started to epower revolution.

PS. I'm slowly working towards filling an entire page with  single reply. LOL, just kidding, or am I......  

15
4/14/2023 12:03pm
Titan1 wrote:
All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport...

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport like structures with solar panels on them? Massive generator?

 

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all...

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

Titan1 wrote:
I think You have the record for the longest posts on vital….holy smokes bro…every one of your posts is a novel…less is more sometimes.   Im...

I think You have the record for the longest posts on vital….holy smokes bro…every one of your posts is a novel…less is more sometimes.

 

Im not an electric hater…I own an electric dirt bike. And I love it…except the range.  

Can you imagine talking to him in person, I bet he never shuts up Blush  I give him a thumbs down for every post over 5 lines long so 95% of his ramblings gets the thumbs down even if I bail on reading more than a couple lines. 

2
8
4/14/2023 1:34pm
ML512 wrote:

Couldn't stand the handlebar rear brake when I tried one. A game changer would be a very personal opinion there.

Rad76 wrote:
I tried it for my two last sessions on the Stark and loved it. First, having a lever on the left seems more normal to me...

I tried it for my two last sessions on the Stark and loved it. First, having a lever on the left seems more normal to me, it felt weird having nothing there. Once i was used to it, it was indeed a game changer. For me, i can understand it's not the case for eveyone. 

I liked it on the KTM Freeride... until I clutched it.

Laughing

 

6
Silas444
Posts
638
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Location
Mid-state, ME US
4/14/2023 4:01pm
ML512 wrote:

Couldn't stand the handlebar rear brake when I tried one. A game changer would be a very personal opinion there.

Rad76 wrote:
I tried it for my two last sessions on the Stark and loved it. First, having a lever on the left seems more normal to me...

I tried it for my two last sessions on the Stark and loved it. First, having a lever on the left seems more normal to me, it felt weird having nothing there. Once i was used to it, it was indeed a game changer. For me, i can understand it's not the case for eveyone. 

I love the handlebar rear brake on my Freeride. My track has some steep downhills, and being able to simply squeeze the bike with your knees while you gauge the pressure of each brake with your hands allows for much clearer information about what's happening vis-a-vis traction. My foot cannot offer me nearly as much input, largely because it's stuck in a boot. It's just one of many things that will take some getting used to, I suppose, but much like the electric start button on ICE bikes, eventually there comes a moment when you go, "Whoops, I didn't think I would, but I actually LIKE this."

Hcallz5
Posts
3279
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8/20/2013
Location
UT US
4/14/2023 4:19pm

Stark better hurry and release these before Surron catches up. The Ultra Bee already provides pretty damn good performance comparatively. At half the price of the Stark it's not an exact moto replacement but for messing around $6500 is much easier to swallow than $13.5k.

2
ML512
Posts
16934
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
4/14/2023 4:30pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2023 4:31pm
What bike did you try it on? I first tried it on my Alta MXR a few years ago and I didnt like it. On the...

What bike did you try it on? I first tried it on my Alta MXR a few years ago and I didnt like it. On the Varg i had a much different experience and was shocked how good it was.

I've tried it on at Alta, a Freeride, and on a regular KTM 450 SX-F. Hated it on all three. Personal opinion of course, but really didn't like it.

1
-MAVERICK-
Posts
65953
Joined
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Location
Ontario CA
4/14/2023 4:38pm
ML512 wrote:
I've tried it on at Alta, a Freeride, and on a regular KTM 450 SX-F. Hated it on all three. Personal opinion of course, but really...

I've tried it on at Alta, a Freeride, and on a regular KTM 450 SX-F. Hated it on all three. Personal opinion of course, but really didn't like it.

Curious. Was it a comfort thing? Would it have made a difference if it was setup like a MTB bike? 

soggy
Posts
8659
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
4/14/2023 4:39pm
ML512 wrote:
I've tried it on at Alta, a Freeride, and on a regular KTM 450 SX-F. Hated it on all three. Personal opinion of course, but really...

I've tried it on at Alta, a Freeride, and on a regular KTM 450 SX-F. Hated it on all three. Personal opinion of course, but really didn't like it.

Do you ride mtn bikes often?  It seems like one of those things you’d get used to after a little while riding with it. I have no experience with it on a moto but the benefits seem undeniable once you get accustomed to it. 

1
1911
Posts
4960
Joined
4/2/2008
Location
LAS VEGAS, NV US
4/14/2023 4:40pm
Titan1 wrote:
All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport...

All we hear is how much money tracks DON'T make...how do you propose tracks pay for 50 charging stations down by the start gate? Massive carport like structures with solar panels on them? Massive generator?

 

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all...

There are companies that will PAY YOU to build a solar field on YOUR land. And give you  long term contracts. They build  and handle all of the costs when they get all of the power and then PAY the owners.  It would be an additional stream of money for the track. Maybe the money that the owner would normally be paid could go into the  carport like structure . They already build frames to elevate the panels off the ground.   Maybe they just elevate the panels up high enough to drive under and there is not much shade. Or just  have people charge themselves. 

 For the electric haters , why do you choose to believe the people saying that gas stuff will be outlawed over the ones saying it will not be?  I keep checking to make sure I clicked on the review thread  because it just keeps going so off subject its crazy. All of the same evils keep being brought up over and over. If you really believe that gas bikes will be outlawed and it bothers you that much, do something real about it. Posting the same tired arguments over and over to a group of people that already support keeping gas bikes around for whoever wants to buy one is not going to do much to help save them if they are going to be killed off. 

Any review that says the bike is really good is written off as paid or propaganda . Until somebody comes out with a review that says something bad about the bike all of the haters of electric on here wil keep saying the same things. All of the same media that puts out the gas bike tests and shootouts have all ridden and reviewed the Varg. They even had the current  gas 450's there at the time to compare side by side.  And you guys will not believe a review until  a hard core 2 stroke lover like Ronnie Mac gets on one and says how bad it is because its not loud enough, and doesn't vibrate enough for you. What if the bike is really good? Maybe its good enough that its worth putting up with having to deal with charging and the downtime you'll have. And again for the people who dislike them, just keep riding your gas bikes.  I'm just so blown away at how divided people are about a new option . 

Titan1 wrote:
I think You have the record for the longest posts on vital….holy smokes bro…every one of your posts is a novel…less is more sometimes.   Im...

I think You have the record for the longest posts on vital….holy smokes bro…every one of your posts is a novel…less is more sometimes.

 

Im not an electric hater…I own an electric dirt bike. And I love it…except the range.  

image-20230414163959-1

3

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