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I think Matthes is wrong.
RC = 150 wins/15 titles
MC = 89 wins/8 titles
Edit: Steve also only focuses on RC’s 48 wins and never acknowledges his 5 SX titles
Now, this being said, no disrespect to MC. He left a couple titles and wins on the table by going SX only. And he is the King.
I think he has a flaw in his thinking. Combined SX and MX together RC has a better win record and with more championships. What more does he want?
I remember there always being a few in here that don't see Ricky as the GOAT, but their logic is more twisted than a bottle cap.
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"RC would have dominated no matter the era or the competition. The one thing he had in spades was indomitable will power. He always found a way to beat whoever was in front of him."
It's possible, but only speculative. I think that the stats alone earn him the title, GOAT, but I still am not settled that he could have dominated in past eras on different machinery against different competition. He's not called the GOAT because it's thought he would have dominated no matter the era. He's called the GOAT based on his record breaking career and the domination of his competition. I refer to him as the GOAT, and think he is the Greatest Of All Time. But...
Roger DeCoster, Bob Hannah, Mark Barnett, Ricky Jonhson and other champions had that extra something as well, and they were mentally unbreakable during their dominance. Would he have beat McGrath in his prime in Supercross? Would he have beat James Stewart on a 125? It's all speculation, and we will never know, but I don't think he would have dominated against McGrath or Stewart in their respective primes. So while your statement that RC did find a way to beat whoever was in front of him is true, those who were in front of him were not DeCoster in his prime, Hannah in his prime, Marty Smith in his prime, RJ in his prime, etc.
So, all those guys in their respective primes couldn't put up nearly as good numbers or win percentages as RC, and you think that's a valid argument?
I do think it's a good argument and I will tell you why. It's because the variables cannot be accounted for and I'll give you an example:
In 1981 when Mark Barnett dominated the 125cc class, there were 8 Nationals. Mark won every race he entered, but did not win the final race since he did not race due to a broken collarbone.
When RC had his most dominate year in the 125 class, which I believe was 1999, RC won 9 of the 12 rounds. Not only did RC have more rounds to get more wins, his win percentage in his best year on the 125s was less than Barnett's on his best year in the 125 class.
Add to that, Barnett faced Johnson, Ward, and O'mara who together would amass 16 combined titles. In comparison, RC faced riders who would amass zero National or premier Supercross titles.
The flaw in your argument is that you are taking RC's overall win percentage (which is amazing) and casting it to more particulars. Hence, my point that I'm not convinced RC would have beat a 1981 Mark Barnett on a 125, or a dominant RJ, or McGrath at the peak of his Supercross career. RC dominated his competition in a way that has never been seen before and has rightly earned the title, GOAT. But anything beyond what he accomplished in his ere is only speculation built on the assumption he would have the same dominance against past riders, like Barnett for example, that had a higher win percentage in his peak 1981 year than RC did in his peak 125 year, and did so against stiffer competition.
Stefan Everts is called the King and rightly so. He's widely regarded as the greatest GP racer. Others would argue that Cairoli was better based on his competition. The point being that there is often more to the picture than just the numbers.
RC had very few injuries in his career... I also can't think of any mechanical failures. Those two things alone make it infinitely difficult for his records to ever be broke. Call it luck, karma or whatever you want, but think about it. 10 years of racing and not a blown tire, radiator, engine, chain snap, nothing. Incredible. He then has two perfect seasons without crashing out and never lost a championship. It's mind blowing to me.
It’s apples and oranges. MC didn’t even line up at a motocross race until he was 14. He did carry his bmx skills over to sx and no one will ever beat 72. MC is the goat of sx, RC is the goat of outdoors. Pretty simple.
Why can’t fruit be compared?
Let's say Barnett does beat out RC in 1981. That still leaves him with 9 other championships. There are other riders who had stand out seasons and accomplished amazing shit. According to your reasoning I could say RC wouldn't have beat Tomac in 2015 (and I don't think he would have), therefore Tomac is the goat. We are talking about careers, not single races or seasons.
I don’t want anyone to take this as a slight against MC because it’s not.
When that argument comes up, I always think about how McGrath went SX only at age 26. The same age Carmichael retired from full time racing. Had Carmichael went SX only instead of retiring, I have no doubt he would have had a great shot at breaking the 7 championships and 72 wins records.
It’s also a bit silly as we are obviously talking about combining both and determining an AMA GOAT. And in that debate, nobody else comes close to Carmichael.
Respectfully, that is not my argument. I have already agreed that RC is the GOAT based on his career stats. My reasoning is not that if Barnett beat RC in 1981, that Mark would be the the GOAT. I argued against the idea that RC would beat any rider in any era for a title.
I'm not exactly sure why you used 2015 Tomac, either, as an example since 2015 was not his best year, or even close to it.
RC lost a 125 moto to John Dowd when his engine blew at Southwick. He also locked up his 2006 450 outdoor title with a flat tire and a broken wrist. https://racerxonline.com/2006/08/21/monday-conversation-ricky-carmichael
But, you are right, he did have very few issues, all in all, over a long period of going crazy fast.
You are right, it's all speculation, hypotheticals. But I feel RC had a little something extra that we never saw before or since.
One point, RC did beat Stewart in his prime in 2005, 2006, and early 2007 before he retired. Even though everyone said RC would have nothing for him. Stewart also did not duplicate RC's level of domination after RC retired.
RC won 100% of the races in the premier class two separate years. Barnett winning 87% of the races in a single 125 season doesn't tilt the odds in any meaningful way.
Best of all time SX- MC. Best of all time MX- RC. (AMA only).
Overall GOAT- RC.
I can’t see how any reasonable person can argue against that???
Brian Deegan is the goat. He won everything there is to win in the dirt
Pit Row
It’s easy, RC changed the game he won 5 SX titles by the age of 26 but since he was so successful outdoors there was no need to keep going. Plus his competition on his way to his titles was all time. He dethroned or beat 3 of the top 5 winningest SX riders while doing it and the only year you could say he didn’t race a legendary racer at the top or close to the top of their powers was 2002 so he spotted them a round with a DNF.
Senna is still often considered the the greatest F1 driver of all time yet his title totals and win total are less then half of the record holders.
Lamson was the dominant rider 95,96. Basically a Barnette of that time beating a lot of hvy competition. Top 3,s in 91, a win in 92, 2 wins in 94, 6 in 95& 9 wins in 96. Lamson was sick at the 1st race Gainsville. RC learned a lot from Lammy on how hard to race in the lead. Little stuff like ovr jumping, later braking, etc. Windom had a full season racing in 96 & was more of the next guy. Craig had a big lead in 1 moto but threw it away. So RC had a little luck to get his 1st win. I was there at Gainsville. The talk was RC has a ton of races there, Lammy was sick, other riders had problems, the track was slick& dangerous. The rest of the nationals RC rode out of control more than the others to get the lead. I think the KX stability ovr the other bikes had a lot to do with keeping it on 2 wheels. Everyone said he’s so out of control there’s no way he finishes all the races. Remember exploding the hail bail wo on the glen Helen down hill. Once Ricky figured it out that no rider is gonna push it out of control to get out front . He knew what he needed to do. To get the win. I saw RC race 4 times in 97. Later yrs the chopper setup helped with the higher speeds. Not sure why no other rider set there bike up that way. I know it’s odd just get used to it. So you can go after him.
When you can pinpoint and discuss someone’s losses due to their rarity. I think that sums it up.
Anyone know what the 3rd set of gear will be? I'm hoping it's a 360 set because the 180 gear is just a bit too warm for the summer months here. I dig the Strafer gear but not with the 180 chassis.
I really hope it is this
Agree.
Might be slightly off task, but this is the same train people have been riding with Deegan. Not saying he's going to be the best ever, but he's definitely proved he's got something special.
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