Firearm Laws

Loam Ranger wrote:

'Let teachers and staff carry... In the US, we protect our money, our banks, our politicians, our celebrities, ourselves, and everything important to us with guns...

'Let teachers and staff carry...

In the US, we protect our money, our banks, our politicians, our celebrities, ourselves, and everything important to us with guns and armed guards. 

Except our children. And enough is enough.

We should do the same for our children.

Harden the schools.'

That a civilised, advanced country should even have to consider this in 2023 is absolutely fucking mental. And yet, it seem it's the only logical choice you have. All you stubborn gun nuts need to take some responsibility for the ridiculous predicament you've created for yourselves and fellow Americans. Maybe the NRA should be instructed to 'enlist' some of their most fervent supporters to patrol schools and colleges every day.

LOOnatic wrote:

I get your point and it's sad that's the reality. But to pin this solely on gun nuts or NRA is intellectually lazy IMO.   I'm...

I get your point and it's sad that's the reality.

But to pin this solely on gun nuts or NRA is intellectually lazy IMO.

 

I'm curious as to what new laws or regulations you think would of helped in this case seeing as how the shooter had no priors and legally bought the guns ?

 

The parents and therapist needed to step up and self report the person who was on the downward spiral. Seems like as usual all the signs were there but ignored. 

If you say ban assault riffles ok well "it" still could of done this crime with a hand gun .

Are you saying ban all guns?

 

Fyi I'm not a gun nut or nra member

Loam Ranger wrote:

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever...

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever change. You have a very strange affection for them, unlike any other country I can think of, which appears to be handed down through generations. In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else. I understand the attraction and reasons for hunting, though not so much trophy hunting, and keeping a handgun or something at home for protection I get. But it's the fetishisation of all the military style stuff and normalisation of owning semi-automatic weapons that's so weird and dangerous.

It's the apparent numbness to it all, the normalisation of weaponry and accessories designed to maim and kill other human beings.

I realise a nationwide amnesty is completely out of the question, but slow down on the sales and promotion at the very least. There are millions of guns in circulation in the US, it would impossible (and unconstitutional) to collect them, but you have to start reducing the volume somehow. I like TDeaths idea of a buy back scheme. I don't like casting aspersions but I imagine quite a few folk who probably shouldn't be owning guns are also the type who make regular visits the pawn shop.

We have armed police in the UK which are effective and few people have a problem with that. But they're only ever deployed in very special circumstances because so few members of the general public have access to guns or weapons that require that kind of response in the first place. And thankfully our kids are lucky enough to go to school everyday without a worry in the world, in part because the UK government   passed strict gun laws following a mass shooting in a small town in 1987 and tightened them further after a primary school massacre in 1996. There hasn't been a school shooting since.

racin mason wrote:

Its against the law to kill someone. Why doesnt that law work?  

TDeath21 wrote:

If murder were legal, do you think more or less people would be killed?

racin mason wrote:

I will ask again, Its against the law to kill someone, why doesnt that law work?

racin mason wrote:

Its against the law to kill someone. Why doesnt that law work?  

racin mason wrote:

Its against the law to kill someone. Why doesnt that law work?  

prozach wrote:

Silly comment.  Laws don't stop things from happening, they are designed to reduce them from happening.  Gun control laws are proven to do exactly that.  Reduce...

Silly comment.  Laws don't stop things from happening, they are designed to reduce them from happening.  Gun control laws are proven to do exactly that.  Reduce gun related deaths.  If that's a goal, so should be gun control. 

racin mason wrote:

Its against the law to kill someone. Why doesnt that law work?  

TDeath21 wrote:

If murder were legal, do you think more or less people would be killed?

racin mason wrote:

I will ask again, Its against the law to kill someone, why doesnt that law work?

prozach wrote:

The number one way a kid is likey to die in America is from a fire arm.  Not cancer, not car crashes, not opioids. That is...

The number one way a kid is likey to die in America is from a fire arm.  Not cancer, not car crashes, not opioids. That is pretty sad.  

There were more school shootings in America last year than the rest of the world combined over the last decade. 

These are undeniable facts.  They are also only true of America. A place with the least strict gun control laws in the developed world.  Seems like common sense gun control makes for safer schools and communities against gun violence all over the world.🤷‍♀️ 

In our country the leading states for firearm death per capital are Mississippi, Louisiana, Wyoming, Missouri, Alabama, Alaska, New Mexico, Arkansas, south Carolina, Tennessee, Montana....what do they all have in common? They are all states with less strict gun control laws...

 

Gworm wrote:

I’ve asked that also. You got more response than I did.    Bad guy: I’m going to buy a gun and go shoot kids at a...

I’ve asked that also. You got more response than I did. 
 

Bad guy: I’m going to buy a gun and go shoot kids at a school… oh crap, I can’t do that because I might get in trouble for buying a gun!!!!

Gworm wrote:

I’ve asked that also. You got more response than I did.    Bad guy: I’m going to buy a gun and go shoot kids at a...

I’ve asked that also. You got more response than I did. 
 

Bad guy: I’m going to buy a gun and go shoot kids at a school… oh crap, I can’t do that because I might get in trouble for buying a gun!!!!

LOOnatic wrote:

This is a very valid point that non gun owners & haters are not fully appreciating.   If you're a bad person up to no good...

This is a very valid point that non gun owners & haters are not fully appreciating.

 

If you're a bad person up to no good then you will find a way including buying a black market gun for which we have plenty.

The genie is out of the bottle guys.

 

We either finally enforce gun laws with real teeth or the government trys to dis arm the population.

 

I can't really see a middle ground with the population becoming so mentally deranged.

Am I wrong?

early wrote:

Would you guys support a federal guns and ammo tax that is used directly to increase security at schools?

Muttly wrote:

Where have you been? I’ve been expecting you for four pages now! 

LOOnatic wrote:

I get your point and it's sad that's the reality. But to pin this solely on gun nuts or NRA is intellectually lazy IMO.   I'm...

I get your point and it's sad that's the reality.

But to pin this solely on gun nuts or NRA is intellectually lazy IMO.

 

I'm curious as to what new laws or regulations you think would of helped in this case seeing as how the shooter had no priors and legally bought the guns ?

 

The parents and therapist needed to step up and self report the person who was on the downward spiral. Seems like as usual all the signs were there but ignored. 

If you say ban assault riffles ok well "it" still could of done this crime with a hand gun .

Are you saying ban all guns?

 

Fyi I'm not a gun nut or nra member

Loam Ranger wrote:

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever...

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever change. You have a very strange affection for them, unlike any other country I can think of, which appears to be handed down through generations. In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else. I understand the attraction and reasons for hunting, though not so much trophy hunting, and keeping a handgun or something at home for protection I get. But it's the fetishisation of all the military style stuff and normalisation of owning semi-automatic weapons that's so weird and dangerous.

It's the apparent numbness to it all, the normalisation of weaponry and accessories designed to maim and kill other human beings.

I realise a nationwide amnesty is completely out of the question, but slow down on the sales and promotion at the very least. There are millions of guns in circulation in the US, it would impossible (and unconstitutional) to collect them, but you have to start reducing the volume somehow. I like TDeaths idea of a buy back scheme. I don't like casting aspersions but I imagine quite a few folk who probably shouldn't be owning guns are also the type who make regular visits the pawn shop.

We have armed police in the UK which are effective and few people have a problem with that. But they're only ever deployed in very special circumstances because so few members of the general public have access to guns or weapons that require that kind of response in the first place. And thankfully our kids are lucky enough to go to school everyday without a worry in the world, in part because the UK government   passed strict gun laws following a mass shooting in a small town in 1987 and tightened them further after a primary school massacre in 1996. There hasn't been a school shooting since.

Titan1 wrote:

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else." Says the guy that lives...

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else."

Says the guy that lives in a country that was nearly overrun by an evil dictator (who killed millions of people)...interestingly it was guns that prevented that from happening...otherwise you might be speaking German right now...I think you're complacency toward, and acceptance of, (tyrannical) government is shortsighted and irrational.

early wrote:

Would you guys support a federal guns and ammo tax that is used directly to increase security at schools?

early wrote:

Would you guys support a federal guns and ammo tax that is used directly to increase security at schools?

Jeremy A.K. wrote:

Gun owners already pay a hefty tax that goes to maintain conservation. Maybe if all the dirty tree huggers put their money where their mouth was...

Gun owners already pay a hefty tax that goes to maintain conservation. Maybe if all the dirty tree huggers put their money where their mouth was the tax could go for security instead and nobody would even notice the change.

Loam Ranger wrote:

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever...

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever change. You have a very strange affection for them, unlike any other country I can think of, which appears to be handed down through generations. In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else. I understand the attraction and reasons for hunting, though not so much trophy hunting, and keeping a handgun or something at home for protection I get. But it's the fetishisation of all the military style stuff and normalisation of owning semi-automatic weapons that's so weird and dangerous.

It's the apparent numbness to it all, the normalisation of weaponry and accessories designed to maim and kill other human beings.

I realise a nationwide amnesty is completely out of the question, but slow down on the sales and promotion at the very least. There are millions of guns in circulation in the US, it would impossible (and unconstitutional) to collect them, but you have to start reducing the volume somehow. I like TDeaths idea of a buy back scheme. I don't like casting aspersions but I imagine quite a few folk who probably shouldn't be owning guns are also the type who make regular visits the pawn shop.

We have armed police in the UK which are effective and few people have a problem with that. But they're only ever deployed in very special circumstances because so few members of the general public have access to guns or weapons that require that kind of response in the first place. And thankfully our kids are lucky enough to go to school everyday without a worry in the world, in part because the UK government   passed strict gun laws following a mass shooting in a small town in 1987 and tightened them further after a primary school massacre in 1996. There hasn't been a school shooting since.

Titan1 wrote:

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else." Says the guy that lives...

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else."

Says the guy that lives in a country that was nearly overrun by an evil dictator (who killed millions of people)...interestingly it was guns that prevented that from happening...otherwise you might be speaking German right now...I think you're complacency toward, and acceptance of, (tyrannical) government is shortsighted and irrational.

seth505 wrote:

I know you're just looking to discredit Loam Ranger but come on dude, this thread is about citizens with guns.  Hitler wasn't defeated by "good guys...

I know you're just looking to discredit Loam Ranger but come on dude, this thread is about citizens with guns.  Hitler wasn't defeated by "good guys with guns", it took allied countries with quite heavy artillery and some good planning/good luck.

Loam Ranger wrote:

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever...

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever change. You have a very strange affection for them, unlike any other country I can think of, which appears to be handed down through generations. In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else. I understand the attraction and reasons for hunting, though not so much trophy hunting, and keeping a handgun or something at home for protection I get. But it's the fetishisation of all the military style stuff and normalisation of owning semi-automatic weapons that's so weird and dangerous.

It's the apparent numbness to it all, the normalisation of weaponry and accessories designed to maim and kill other human beings.

I realise a nationwide amnesty is completely out of the question, but slow down on the sales and promotion at the very least. There are millions of guns in circulation in the US, it would impossible (and unconstitutional) to collect them, but you have to start reducing the volume somehow. I like TDeaths idea of a buy back scheme. I don't like casting aspersions but I imagine quite a few folk who probably shouldn't be owning guns are also the type who make regular visits the pawn shop.

We have armed police in the UK which are effective and few people have a problem with that. But they're only ever deployed in very special circumstances because so few members of the general public have access to guns or weapons that require that kind of response in the first place. And thankfully our kids are lucky enough to go to school everyday without a worry in the world, in part because the UK government   passed strict gun laws following a mass shooting in a small town in 1987 and tightened them further after a primary school massacre in 1996. There hasn't been a school shooting since.

Titan1 wrote:

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else." Says the guy that lives...

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else."

Says the guy that lives in a country that was nearly overrun by an evil dictator (who killed millions of people)...interestingly it was guns that prevented that from happening...otherwise you might be speaking German right now...I think you're complacency toward, and acceptance of, (tyrannical) government is shortsighted and irrational.

seth505 wrote:

I know you're just looking to discredit Loam Ranger but come on dude, this thread is about citizens with guns.  Hitler wasn't defeated by "good guys...

I know you're just looking to discredit Loam Ranger but come on dude, this thread is about citizens with guns.  Hitler wasn't defeated by "good guys with guns", it took allied countries with quite heavy artillery and some good planning/good luck.

Gworm wrote:

I’ve asked that also. You got more response than I did.    Bad guy: I’m going to buy a gun and go shoot kids at a...

I’ve asked that also. You got more response than I did. 
 

Bad guy: I’m going to buy a gun and go shoot kids at a school… oh crap, I can’t do that because I might get in trouble for buying a gun!!!!

LOOnatic wrote:

This is a very valid point that non gun owners & haters are not fully appreciating.   If you're a bad person up to no good...

This is a very valid point that non gun owners & haters are not fully appreciating.

 

If you're a bad person up to no good then you will find a way including buying a black market gun for which we have plenty.

The genie is out of the bottle guys.

 

We either finally enforce gun laws with real teeth or the government trys to dis arm the population.

 

I can't really see a middle ground with the population becoming so mentally deranged.

Am I wrong?

zookrider62! wrote:

In general, illegal things are harder to obtain and more expensive. While I don't think it would necessarily stop mass murders, I could see it having...

In general, illegal things are harder to obtain and more expensive. While I don't think it would necessarily stop mass murders, I could see it having a significant impact on "crimes of passion"

early wrote:

You are talking about hunting licenses, 2 different things. I hunt on my own land and don't need a license, maybe your state is different. The...

You are talking about hunting licenses, 2 different things. I hunt on my own land and don't need a license, maybe your state is different.

The only people who feel more entitled to trespass on private property than quad rider is a hunter.

early wrote:

You are talking about hunting licenses, 2 different things. I hunt on my own land and don't need a license, maybe your state is different. The...

You are talking about hunting licenses, 2 different things. I hunt on my own land and don't need a license, maybe your state is different.

The only people who feel more entitled to trespass on private property than quad rider is a hunter.

Jeremy A.K. wrote:

https://wildlifeforall.us/resources/pittman-robertson-wildlife-restorat…

Loam Ranger wrote:

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever...

I understand that it's a highly complex problem but the availability and mindset/approach to guns in general needs to shift in America otherwise nothing will ever change. You have a very strange affection for them, unlike any other country I can think of, which appears to be handed down through generations. In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else. I understand the attraction and reasons for hunting, though not so much trophy hunting, and keeping a handgun or something at home for protection I get. But it's the fetishisation of all the military style stuff and normalisation of owning semi-automatic weapons that's so weird and dangerous.

It's the apparent numbness to it all, the normalisation of weaponry and accessories designed to maim and kill other human beings.

I realise a nationwide amnesty is completely out of the question, but slow down on the sales and promotion at the very least. There are millions of guns in circulation in the US, it would impossible (and unconstitutional) to collect them, but you have to start reducing the volume somehow. I like TDeaths idea of a buy back scheme. I don't like casting aspersions but I imagine quite a few folk who probably shouldn't be owning guns are also the type who make regular visits the pawn shop.

We have armed police in the UK which are effective and few people have a problem with that. But they're only ever deployed in very special circumstances because so few members of the general public have access to guns or weapons that require that kind of response in the first place. And thankfully our kids are lucky enough to go to school everyday without a worry in the world, in part because the UK government   passed strict gun laws following a mass shooting in a small town in 1987 and tightened them further after a primary school massacre in 1996. There hasn't been a school shooting since.

Titan1 wrote:

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else." Says the guy that lives...

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else."

Says the guy that lives in a country that was nearly overrun by an evil dictator (who killed millions of people)...interestingly it was guns that prevented that from happening...otherwise you might be speaking German right now...I think you're complacency toward, and acceptance of, (tyrannical) government is shortsighted and irrational.

seth505 wrote:

I know you're just looking to discredit Loam Ranger but come on dude, this thread is about citizens with guns.  Hitler wasn't defeated by "good guys...

I know you're just looking to discredit Loam Ranger but come on dude, this thread is about citizens with guns.  Hitler wasn't defeated by "good guys with guns", it took allied countries with quite heavy artillery and some good planning/good luck.

Titan1 wrote:

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else." Says the guy that lives...

" In many cases it's a paranoid and irrational fear of government, which in itself is bizarre and unlike anywhere else."

Says the guy that lives in a country that was nearly overrun by an evil dictator (who killed millions of people)...interestingly it was guns that prevented that from happening...otherwise you might be speaking German right now...I think you're complacency toward, and acceptance of, (tyrannical) government is shortsighted and irrational.

seth505 wrote:

I know you're just looking to discredit Loam Ranger but come on dude, this thread is about citizens with guns.  Hitler wasn't defeated by "good guys...

I know you're just looking to discredit Loam Ranger but come on dude, this thread is about citizens with guns.  Hitler wasn't defeated by "good guys with guns", it took allied countries with quite heavy artillery and some good planning/good luck.

Loam Ranger wrote:

There aren't too many Spitfires on Ebay these days unfortunately. I doubt I've spent even spent a minute of my entire life worrying about an invading...

There aren't too many Spitfires on Ebay these days unfortunately.

I doubt I've spent even spent a minute of my entire life worrying about an invading army, and probably not since I was 6 years.

The risk of a foreign Nation invading us, and me having the means to prevent them even I wanted to, is so infinitesimally small it's not worth wasting my time contemplating it. And the risk to you guys in America is even LESS! That's what's so silly. No one would even get close enough to launch a land attack, they would probably target you with intercontinental ballistic missiles and I'm not sure you'll have much chance stopping those with a couple of pissy little rifles.

early wrote:

Would you guys support a federal guns and ammo tax that is used directly to increase security at schools?

LOOnatic wrote:

This is a very valid point that non gun owners & haters are not fully appreciating.   If you're a bad person up to no good...

This is a very valid point that non gun owners & haters are not fully appreciating.

 

If you're a bad person up to no good then you will find a way including buying a black market gun for which we have plenty.

The genie is out of the bottle guys.

 

We either finally enforce gun laws with real teeth or the government trys to dis arm the population.

 

I can't really see a middle ground with the population becoming so mentally deranged.

Am I wrong?

zookrider62! wrote:

In general, illegal things are harder to obtain and more expensive. While I don't think it would necessarily stop mass murders, I could see it having...

In general, illegal things are harder to obtain and more expensive. While I don't think it would necessarily stop mass murders, I could see it having a significant impact on "crimes of passion"

Gworm wrote:

I’ve not done the research, but I’d think crimes of passion are more of an immediate response crime and are done with whatever is handy. Gun...

I’ve not done the research, but I’d think crimes of passion are more of an immediate response crime and are done with whatever is handy. Gun, knife, rock, 2x4, whatever. 
When you go buy a gun for that purpose, that is premeditation. 
 

As far as something illegal being harder to get and more expensive, it seems like drugs are still prevalent in our society