Sur Ron smashers

early
Posts
9802
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
2/21/2023 11:38am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2023 11:39am
JK BRO wrote:
No way would I trust a ebike with that kind of voltage in the water. I seen the youtube vids of the ktm freeride being submerged...

No way would I trust a ebike with that kind of voltage in the water. I seen the youtube vids of the ktm freeride being submerged but what a fkn idiot.

It would only take one bad ground for potential ESD. Terrifying to think you'd be motionless watching yourself drown.

KTM freeride is 18kw

1kw = 1000volts

11,000volts is likely death, imagine 18k.

early wrote:

That's not how electricity works.

JK BRO wrote:
Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it...

Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it finds one.

1kW does not equal 1000V on a e-moto, start there. 

1
JK BRO
Posts
348
Joined
7/29/2021
Location
Oroville, CA US
Fantasy
2/21/2023 3:32pm
early wrote:

That's not how electricity works.

JK BRO wrote:
Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it...

Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it finds one.

early wrote:

1kW does not equal 1000V on a e-moto, start there. 

Oh, "e-moto" sets the laws of electricity. I guess 1kw on an e-moto is not the same as 1kw in the real world because "e-moto".

Drop some of this superior knowledge Einstein, I'm more than willing to listen to reason.

1
early
Posts
9802
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
2/21/2023 3:49pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2023 3:50pm
JK BRO wrote:
Oh, "e-moto" sets the laws of electricity. I guess 1kw on an e-moto is not the same as 1kw in the real world because "e-moto". Drop...

Oh, "e-moto" sets the laws of electricity. I guess 1kw on an e-moto is not the same as 1kw in the real world because "e-moto".

Drop some of this superior knowledge Einstein, I'm more than willing to listen to reason.

A kW is a measure of power. 

The max power output of the ktm freeride motor is 18kW or about 24hp.

In electricity, Watts=Voltage x Amperage

The battery of the ktm freeride has a nominal charged voltage of about 300V.

I said 1kW =/=1000V on e-motos because you may be confusing kW with kWh, the amount of energy stored in the battery. If you had a 1kWh battery with a capacity of 1 Amp-hour, that battery would have a voltage of 1000V, but no e-motos have a battery like that, it ridiculous.

The KTM Freeride battery has a capacity of 3.9kWh, @ 300V the battery can discharge 13 Amps continuously for 1 hour.

In no world does kW=Voltage unless you are rewriting physics books.

2
RaceFace232
Posts
259
Joined
8/6/2021
Location
Northampton, MA US
2/21/2023 3:49pm
early wrote:

That's not how electricity works.

JK BRO wrote:
Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it...

Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it finds one.

early wrote:

1kW does not equal 1000V on a e-moto, start there. 

I read several articles about this and am looking for a much simpler explanation.  Don’t just say it’s not this, explain what it is if it’s not this.  I know next to nothing about all of this though I do know now that IP69k is the most watertight things can be.  Now.  I’m still not impressed with that reading what the tests consist of.  Seems they’re more interested in heated water under pressure as opposed to just pressure.  Anyway, I enjoy technology just don’t know anything about this technology.  It’s great if people want to build these as a hobby.  My hobby is restoring 2-strokes.  As much as I’d like to learn about this stuff I have zero interest in it as a product and to think this will really hurt the sport in the long run,

1
3

The Shop

Sawfish
Posts
789
Joined
6/8/2013
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
2/21/2023 5:05pm

I think it’s an awesome idea. I love shop tinkering and honestly anyone that doesn’t think this is cool probably has their local dealer change their oil for them. 

4
rivvs
Posts
87
Joined
9/15/2011
Location
saguenay CA
2/21/2023 5:15pm
JK BRO wrote:
No way would I trust a ebike with that kind of voltage in the water. I seen the youtube vids of the ktm freeride being submerged...

No way would I trust a ebike with that kind of voltage in the water. I seen the youtube vids of the ktm freeride being submerged but what a fkn idiot.

It would only take one bad ground for potential ESD. Terrifying to think you'd be motionless watching yourself drown.

KTM freeride is 18kw

1kw = 1000volts

11,000volts is likely death, imagine 18k.

early wrote:

That's not how electricity works.

JK BRO wrote:
Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it...

Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it finds one.

Actually this is not how electricity work.

1kw=1000w not volts.

voltage amperage and wattage are tree different thing.

1
sdmx
Posts
403
Joined
10/30/2013
Location
Oceanside, CA US
2/21/2023 5:46pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2023 5:49pm
Titan1 wrote:

Is that $8K for the entire bike...or just for the motor and conversion work on an existing frame I already own?

Just thinking out loud here -- So I agree that $8k plus my roller does not sound like a great deal.  What do you guys think a good deal would be?  The Electro & Co. package is only $3500 with battery, but I don't feel like (or have the skills) finding a roller and installing it.  If we could have a bike like the RM-E in the video (electric motor in an older bike) for $8k would that be worth it? 

I am thinking I an old roller like that would be worth about $1000, $3500 for the E-kit, $2000 labor,  plus $1500 for new plastics, tires, suspension rebuild...$8k.  I think I would pay that.

1
cmotodad
Posts
1007
Joined
12/18/2013
Location
Yorba Linda, CA US
2/21/2023 6:13pm

A little bit about building a DIY bike. The Electro and Co. kit is all but plug and play. Controller programing is set, wiring harness that interchanges with a full size bike supplied and the option of using a battery size is determined by the builder. Skills to mount the controller and motor really are pretty basic. after building 2 CRF bikes, I made jigs so I can mount the motor and controller in the any 04-13 CRF. I enjoy fabricating and spending time down in the garage. Your first bike is a little intimidating but more than doable by most who maintain their own bikes. JMO

4
bayodome
Posts
1196
Joined
12/18/2006
Location
Mid-level, Hong Kong Island HK
2/22/2023 8:29am

Not plug and play, but here's the route I've gone so far so get as close to be as plug and play as possible:

-2015 YZ250F rolling chassis (found on FCool

-Electro & Co QS138 70h V3 kit w/ EM-260 controller pre-programmed to 200a continuous and 350a bursts

-MightE mounting brackets for QS138 70h V3 motor

-Lithium King 13t 520 sprocket for QS138 70 V3 (MightE and Lithium King are currently the only two outfits making 520 sprockets for this motor. Otherwise you are forced to use a 428 sprocket.)

-Chi Battery Systems 72v 51ah Gladiator Max Sur Ron aftermarket battery (custom built w/o top, extended charger and QS10 connector. This battery allows for 420a continuous and 540a bursts, so it can more than handle the current controller settings) 

I was fortunate enough to connect with Don Cox (might lurk on here) who has done his own conversion, also of the same generation YZ250F. He's been invaluable to my project and made me an under-the-seat mounting bracket for the EM-260 controller. 

Next hurtle is the mounting brackets for the battery.

There are also several companies out there developing kits (Lithium King has one with the same motor and is doing lower ah batteries meant to be swappable and will design the brackets specifically for your bike, Lizcat.com in Switzerland has some cool stuff in the works as well utilizing the QS138 90h and 90h V3 motors, MightE will do a complete conversion for you in the UK, Elmofo in Oz does some really high-end conversions.)

Care to learn more than you ever wanted to about e-conversions? Join the Electric Motorcycle Builders group on FB.

4
McG194
Posts
4111
Joined
9/7/2017
Location
Palm Coast, FL US
2/22/2023 8:49pm Edited Date/Time 2/22/2023 8:49pm

If anyone is wondering if an electric bike can be competitive, last weekend an electric bike won its class at our Hare Scramble. 

 

 

 

2
JM485
Posts
5787
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA US
2/22/2023 9:16pm
bayodome wrote:
Not plug and play, but here's the route I've gone so far so get as close to be as plug and play as possible: -2015 YZ250F...

Not plug and play, but here's the route I've gone so far so get as close to be as plug and play as possible:

-2015 YZ250F rolling chassis (found on FCool

-Electro & Co QS138 70h V3 kit w/ EM-260 controller pre-programmed to 200a continuous and 350a bursts

-MightE mounting brackets for QS138 70h V3 motor

-Lithium King 13t 520 sprocket for QS138 70 V3 (MightE and Lithium King are currently the only two outfits making 520 sprockets for this motor. Otherwise you are forced to use a 428 sprocket.)

-Chi Battery Systems 72v 51ah Gladiator Max Sur Ron aftermarket battery (custom built w/o top, extended charger and QS10 connector. This battery allows for 420a continuous and 540a bursts, so it can more than handle the current controller settings) 

I was fortunate enough to connect with Don Cox (might lurk on here) who has done his own conversion, also of the same generation YZ250F. He's been invaluable to my project and made me an under-the-seat mounting bracket for the EM-260 controller. 

Next hurtle is the mounting brackets for the battery.

There are also several companies out there developing kits (Lithium King has one with the same motor and is doing lower ah batteries meant to be swappable and will design the brackets specifically for your bike, Lizcat.com in Switzerland has some cool stuff in the works as well utilizing the QS138 90h and 90h V3 motors, MightE will do a complete conversion for you in the UK, Elmofo in Oz does some really high-end conversions.)

Care to learn more than you ever wanted to about e-conversions? Join the Electric Motorcycle Builders group on FB.

For mounting the batteries, we've had the best luck making a tray that interfaces the motor and motor mounts to take up the bulk of the battery support, then some additional brackets up top that help stabilize and secure it.  Go with more support than you think you need, in a crash scenario it's pretty incredible what kind of forces these bikes can see and a battery projectile would not be an ideal situation. Laughing

I'm not sure what your plan is for the battery box, but so far we've 3D printed all of ours out of PETG and had great results with them.  It's a relatively forgiving plastic to print but still has good mechanical properties for this application since it's pretty darn tough and also UV/chemical resistant. 

Post some pictures of the bike if you can, I'm really curious to see it and I'm sure a lot of others are as well.  

1
Broseph
Posts
1188
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA US
2/22/2023 9:18pm
JK BRO wrote:
No way would I trust a ebike with that kind of voltage in the water. I seen the youtube vids of the ktm freeride being submerged...

No way would I trust a ebike with that kind of voltage in the water. I seen the youtube vids of the ktm freeride being submerged but what a fkn idiot.

It would only take one bad ground for potential ESD. Terrifying to think you'd be motionless watching yourself drown.

KTM freeride is 18kw

1kw = 1000volts

11,000volts is likely death, imagine 18k.

early wrote:

That's not how electricity works.

JK BRO wrote:
Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it...

Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it finds one.

He was talking about your nonsensical watts to voltage conversion.

Maico4
Posts
29
Joined
12/8/2020
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ US
2/22/2023 10:31pm
JK BRO wrote:
Oh, "e-moto" sets the laws of electricity. I guess 1kw on an e-moto is not the same as 1kw in the real world because "e-moto". Drop...

Oh, "e-moto" sets the laws of electricity. I guess 1kw on an e-moto is not the same as 1kw in the real world because "e-moto".

Drop some of this superior knowledge Einstein, I'm more than willing to listen to reason.

early wrote:
A kW is a measure of power.  The max power output of the ktm freeride motor is 18kW or about 24hp. In electricity, Watts=Voltage x Amperage...

A kW is a measure of power. 

The max power output of the ktm freeride motor is 18kW or about 24hp.

In electricity, Watts=Voltage x Amperage

The battery of the ktm freeride has a nominal charged voltage of about 300V.

I said 1kW =/=1000V on e-motos because you may be confusing kW with kWh, the amount of energy stored in the battery. If you had a 1kWh battery with a capacity of 1 Amp-hour, that battery would have a voltage of 1000V, but no e-motos have a battery like that, it ridiculous.

The KTM Freeride battery has a capacity of 3.9kWh, @ 300V the battery can discharge 13 Amps continuously for 1 hour.

In no world does kW=Voltage unless you are rewriting physics books.

You are absolutely right Early.  Good Class on Electricity, in Ebikes and the world.

 

Maico4
Posts
29
Joined
12/8/2020
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ US
2/22/2023 11:17pm
Titan1 wrote:

Is that $8K for the entire bike...or just for the motor and conversion work on an existing frame I already own?

sdmx wrote:
Just thinking out loud here -- So I agree that $8k plus my roller does not sound like a great deal.  What do you guys think...

Just thinking out loud here -- So I agree that $8k plus my roller does not sound like a great deal.  What do you guys think a good deal would be?  The Electro & Co. package is only $3500 with battery, but I don't feel like (or have the skills) finding a roller and installing it.  If we could have a bike like the RM-E in the video (electric motor in an older bike) for $8k would that be worth it? 

I am thinking I an old roller like that would be worth about $1000, $3500 for the E-kit, $2000 labor,  plus $1500 for new plastics, tires, suspension rebuild...$8k.  I think I would pay that.

SDMX you are pretty close on your estimate. I have built quite a few Ebike conversions.  3 x  KX80-100;s, 2 x KTM's 150, and 450SX, 5 x Yamaha's YZ250F's 2 x 2003, and 2008, and 2 x 2014, next build is a 2006 YZ85, and then a 2020 KTM 250SX.  Most have been with the QS 138 70H V3 motor and either the Votol EM 150 or 260 controller depending on bike size.  The battery is the big variable in the price. Size and or if you build it yourself.  A good 72V 50AH battery could cost $3500 from a good vendor. You can build it yourself for about 1/2 the price if you build it yourself. I would recommend a good builder.  The battery is the heart of a fun bike. The controller can drive you crazy too, I have installed other controllers, many Kelly's and Sevcon's. I have heard of the Bac8000 and Curtis and problems with faults and dropouts, but the Votol EM150 and 260 I have used and they work flawlessly.  Mostly thanks to Electro and Company's kit with there programming. Every one of their kits have plugged together, add a battery and drive it down the road.  Here is the YouTube of one of my builds in about 5 days, with E&C.com kit. The bike had been an electric bike before, with a battery already in it, so that made the build faster. You can see some other builds I done on my YouTube channel.  Manny Guerrero in Norhtern California Builds an awesome E-bike and a quality product, I really admire his work. You can build your own and have a lot of fun on them as Casmoto has talked about on this thread.  He really rips on his CRF.  The second YouTube is him on the REM track at Glen Helen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1lioYhFW3c&t=4s&ab_channel=DonaldCox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmfd10CqUks&ab_channel=CasMoto

2
ns503
Posts
4555
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NS Toolies CA
2/23/2023 2:12am
JK BRO wrote:
Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it...

Actually it is. An open ground does not complete the circuit. Therefore the circuit will look for the nearest ground through the conductive water until it finds one.

early wrote:

1kW does not equal 1000V on a e-moto, start there. 

JK BRO wrote:
Oh, "e-moto" sets the laws of electricity. I guess 1kw on an e-moto is not the same as 1kw in the real world because "e-moto". Drop...

Oh, "e-moto" sets the laws of electricity. I guess 1kw on an e-moto is not the same as 1kw in the real world because "e-moto".

Drop some of this superior knowledge Einstein, I'm more than willing to listen to reason.

You have no idea of what you speak.

1kw = 1000 watts.

One watt does not equal one volt.

Bro.

 

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