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So the ACU (the UK’s main mx racing governing body) recently approved the Stark Varg for it’s sanctioned competition events.
In 3 weeks time Hawkstone International which will have riders in attendance such as Herlings, Febvre, Coldenhoff, Simpson, Sterry etc. is an acu event.
I wonder if we’ll see a Varg on the line will be cool to say how they mix it up at the pro level with combustion bikes
well, first thing they have to do is actually produce one to race that's not a prototype that can only be operated under strict supervision of their engineers. You can dream, though..............
I just can't see it happening. Too much to lose if it crap out or breaks or gets dusted by the entire field Vs what they have to gain when it's already pretty hyped up (not saying whether it's deserved or not, it does look promising if it's what you're interested in).
This is only my completely uneducated opinion and there is every chance I will be proven wrong, so we'll see.
What steps are they taking to ensure that it’s not like 30% more powerful now that they approved it? They have no way of governing it’s power output.
Sure why don't you run right down and buy one to race. Be surprised if you even see a production Stark in the next couple years.
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Brilliant. If a Shart Varg ever actually sees the light of day.... 80HP "E" against 60HP ICE.
What’s the ETA on the first batch? 2024?
It could be a massive failure; they probably won't race it without getting a production unit ready first. Then, lots of development on that.
They’re still scheduled to arrive next month, right?
Royal Enfield bet $50 million on them.....
Harley planned to invest $25-50 million in Alta. How’d that work out?
https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/harley-davidson-invests-alta-motors-electric/
I’m guessing Royal Enfield didn’t exactly direct deposit $50 million into the turtleneck guy’s bank account.
Royal Enfield has a side hack already for them!!!
It’s pretty easy to limit battery size or set a current limit, both of which would govern its output power.
Isn't it displacement that determines class?
No mention of ponies in any rulebook I have seen.
MXGP should just be an open class, 450MX too. Nobody is using every bit of the 450 power., 'cept maybe Eli.
Eicher Motors supposed cash injection is probably a disguised buy out of the name and any intellectual property- to either shelve- or for use on mobility quads and scooters in Mumbai.
From MXGeoffs site, MX Large - one that a fair few here might not go to if I put up a link :
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British motocross championship promoter Gareth Hockey spoke to us last week and while we got the first part of the interview out early last week, a busy end of the week and weekend meant we didn’t get part two our until now. So here it is, more information on this Stark Varg bike racing in the UK in 2023 and some ideas Hockey has for when it does arrive.
MXlarge: How do you see the future of the sport in the UK?
Hockey: For me, I am probably looking five years in advance. I can see us in five years’ time being all electric. I think that might change the game for the sport. Why can’t we be in the middle of Birmingham or the middle of London. If we can take our sport to places like that, it opens our World right up.
MXlarge: There was that video from Sebastien Tortelli about the ACU allowing Stark to race in the UK in 2023. It wasn’t full of too much information, so what is the situation with that bike for the major British races, will we see a Stark in the British motocross championship?
Hockey: Not this year. We have looked at it and spoken with the other manufacturers. Last year I tried to push to have Sebastien Tortelli over for the last round of the British championship as a wild-card rider on the Stark Varg bike. A lot of technical issues didn’t work, but to be fair to Stark, they have answered all those question to the ACU and the rules and regulations are now just about in place. That is for us to integrate the Varg Stark bikes into the British championship in 2024. If I can find the way to get one (Stark Varg bike) into a British championship round this year, just as a demonstration type of thing, we would do it. Stephen Clarke has two ordered and expects to have them very soon and he would be a good rider to have racing one. Of course, I also have to work with every other manufacturer on this.
MXlarge: Depending how good this Stark bike is, because it seems like everyone says it is amazing, so I can imagine the other brands saying this isn’t a bike of equal capacity of whatever. How will that work?
Hockey: Having spoken to the Starg Varg guys, they have everything to be able to map the bike to a 250’s power and they are open to share that with the organizations. I have had guys who have ridden the bike and as you said, it is awesome. We know the Japanese and the Austrians are chasing it and they won’t be far behind.
MXlarge: So then its maybe a job to find a rider who isn’t racing for somebody else and can ride the bike as a wild card?
Hockey: Stephen Clarke has two ordered and expects to have them very soon and he would be a good rider to have racing one. Of course, I also have to work with every other manufacturer on this. If we are going to do it in 2023, I would want somebody like Seb to come in, somebody who is a draw. I think they have to get the bike out the door to be honest and maybe run it first in some small events in the UK.
MXLarge: The transition from what we have now to electric is obviously going to be a pretty drastic change and a lot bigger than changing from 4-strokes to 2-strokes like we had in the past. How long do you personally think that transition can happen?
Hockey: We will be led by Japan and Austria, but I think maybe in five years. Stark sort of surprised everyone with this really competitive bike. I assume 2024 we will see a lot more in the market and I think 2026 or 2027 it will be all electric. We all love the noise, but for our sport to survive, we have to go that way.
MXlarge: You mentioned if we do end up there, and obviously we will, are you thinking running the motocross in stadiums, like maybe Birmingham or something like that?
Hockey: No, I am thinking more outdoor spaces and I know places near Cardiff which are suitable for an outdoor circuit. We can find spaces in the London area. I think the stadium thing is more Matts thing, but you take away the noise and nobody complains about motocross.
From, as I said, MX Large .
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That should get some people squealing - really, I do think Hockey is kidding himself with the time frame he suggests for it to be All Electric.
In earlier news, they set 48HP for an E Bike to be in among 250s, 60(?) HP for 450s. With controls that 'lock' the Horsepower - no 'upping' it during the event. How they'd do that, I can't say - as I so often write, I can't keep my Blinkers going for long on my Vibrationary CRE, as I'm an Electronic Idiot ...........
But, I'm sure it can be done.
An E bike in UK the end of February, too cold 🥶.
question for all the experts.
30 min motos, does cold weather come into the equation?
Tyre Warmers are so bloody common nowadays - it seems Everyone that go's to the Tar Baby Track days has them . They are worth Every Bloody Penny you spend on them - they are an incredible Safety and Performance set of items.
So, if cold weather would present a problem before the batteries get warm during use in Battery Bikes, I'm sure whoever chooses to race them, in a cold environment, will have a Battery Blankie for them. Just like Linus.......
Pit Row
As far as not letting people change the power after scrutineering / inspection, I guess they'd follow most racing where ECU changes are prohibited.
Either you'd have to remove the "map" switch and replace that little portion of wiring with a pre-set and non-adjustable version / module or you'd simply seal off the map changing facility with a skinny little plastic piece to make it inaccessible and then lockwire and tag it, like has been done with ECUs, turbos, throttle body / intake (restrictor plate access) in other motorsports.
I agree 5 years for "all electric" sounds absolutely mental, and contradictory to KTM's latest talk on the matter.
There are a few stark vargs at dealerships now. One in Texas and they will start demo rides. With the guy that owns that dealership I give you 100% chance that bike will be lining up on a gate at Three palms MX very soon.
The ones with 3D plastic printed batteries?
That MX Large interview is laughable: All electric in 5 years. Moving races into "outdoor spaces" near big cities.
That Hockey guy sounds more adept to promote Cyclocross or XC MTB for the lycra clad crowd, not dirt bike races.
DJI drones have a heater built int othe batteries or a process that heats the batteries up. On the earlier ones it was done with a firmware update , but I'm not sure if they have changed the way its done now. It sounds funny to have to warm up an electric vehicle before driving it. But that's what the drones do.
I am excited for Electric bikes, but why is it always that the new tech is going to replace the current tech? Gas and diesel engines exist together, 2 stroke and 4 stroke , Sail boats , in board and outboard engines , and so on. People still ride and race 2 strokes now. When You could say that 4 strokes are faster and easier to ride , and many of the other Pros that Electric also have. But people like different styles of riding and types of power. Even if the electric MX bikes out perform gas powered bikes in every way, I know there will still be some people that prefer the gas power.
There are loopholes around emissions for older cars and trucks, so I imagine that the same would exist in most of the world for gas powered bikes. If 2 strokes were allowed to live on because the majority of bikes being made are 4 strokes. I would think the same would happen for gas bikes if Electric can perform well enough to out perform gas bikes. People will naturally buy them in higher numbers than the 2 and 4 strokes. And they will live on.
And as long as there is a demand for the bikes and parts they will be available. Look at all the new old parts being made theses days. UFO has been making new runs of plastic for bikes back into the 1980's, Vintco is a new company that is making OEM style replacement parts for older bikes. DC plastic makes all stuff for older bikes. Polisport has brought back some older plastic too. I'm not really into the vintage market , so I can not recall many of the companies. There are so many that I've seen .
I think that electric will be able to outperform gas. equal HP and the electric would be easier to ride. I get it that sometimes a loud , slow bike with bad suspension is fun to ride. I've had tons of fun riding old scooters and mopeds. For the people who dislike electric , ride you gas bikes. and the people who like Electric can ride their electric bikes. Its just like the 2 VS 4 stroke debate back in the early 2000's. If you are worried about a ban on gas MX bikes than do something about it. start writing to lawmakers, start up a group , even a hashtag , complaining on here might even help in a way too. But turning every post that is about an electric into a Electric VS gas just seems so old. What would people do if I started posting about Electric bikes in EVERY post about gas powered bikes? In some cases it can be contributing to the overall conversation , but so often its just the same old tired BS of the range sucks, or it will not work in the cold.
And then You get people complaining that Suzuki doesn't have a battery or electric motor. If batteries and electric motors are so evil than why is it that everybody is demanding that their bikes have them? And people saying You'll have to run a generator to charge your battery, well you have to use electricity to pump Your gas at the gas station. While we are at it, lets throw some small engines onto power tools instead of batteries. 2 stroke drills ,sawzalls, circular saws, etc. For years there have been contractors running generators to power their silly corded electric tools. Lets just throw some small engines onto them instead and it will fix them right? Where is my gas powered toothbrush? Vacuum cleaner? Trains have been diesel generators making electricity to drive them for years. Because it is more efficient and makes for large towing capacities.
mx large needs to do some proof reading before printing.
This is one big laughable contradictory OOF haha.
I don’t think all (or at least majority) electric in 5 years is unrealistic,
4 strokes properly came in 2004ish and by 2007 2 major manufacturers stopped the production of 2 strokes all together.
that was just 3 years, and things move much quicker now with the heavier use of social media.
You’ll always have the die hard petrol heads who will keep the gas bikes but with the UK being small and densely populated I’m not surprised we’re one of the first to approve these bike into competition because since the introduction of 4 strokes tracks close weekly because of noise.
It may have been wishful thinking to think we may see a varg at hawkstone, I’m exited to see them as I think it’ll elevate the sport. I don’t care about noise I ride downhill and never once got to the bottom and thought bloody hell that was fun but I wish it was louder. It’s not a factor and will soon be forgotten.
Bikes sound amazing in isolation, a factory 250f on the limiter is a dream, but on a race or practice day after 7 hours of 40 bikes at a time is exhausting and a drone to be perfectly honest.
I believe Steven Clarke has ordered 2 Vargs and I think he’ll be pretty high up the delivery list having been on of the riders that went to the media day in Spain, so I don’t think it’ll be long before we se them at a pro level and with the lap time improvements they were seeing on the media day (I think Dylan woodcock was 6 seconds per lap faster than he was on a 450, after just a few laps of ever getting on a varg) and the no (or little) maintenance factor they are a no brainier moving forward
Cliffy615 - quote " I don’t care about noise I ride downhill and never once got to the bottom and thought bloody hell that was fun but I wish it was louder. It’s not a factor and will soon be forgotten."
Yeah....that's why people are still going apeshit over the sound of 2-strokes. Sound is not a factor.... I'm laughing my ass off right now.
The same guys crying the stark is a POS and would never own one. Are the same guys crying they need to regulate the power output.
So is it crap and not needed or 2 fast??
6 seconds per lap faster, hahahahahahaha. C'mon man. You think switching from a 450 to a Stark would make Mason Kerr as fast as Chase Sexton? Hint: they were 6 seconds apart in qualifying this weekend.
Zero offense to Mason, he just happened to be 6 seconds off Chase is all.
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