Roczen Recon Thread

Spoonguy
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1/31/2023 5:31pm
Magoofan wrote:
Sadly, I agree.   Suzuki corporation has written off moto and I don't see anything bringing it back. Crying shame considering their pedigree in racing.   That...

Sadly, I agree.   Suzuki corporation has written off moto and I don't see anything bringing it back.

Crying shame considering their pedigree in racing.

 

That said....I think we can finally dispel the crap about the Zook being an incapable outdated dinosaur.      

 

Spoonguy wrote:
It's not that the bike isn't capable, it's that Suzuki trades on your loyalty as a consumer and makes no attempts to improve the product despite...

It's not that the bike isn't capable, it's that Suzuki trades on your loyalty as a consumer and makes no attempts to improve the product despite your loyalty and money. I own a business, I know my customers work hard for their money, I constantly search for ways to increase my value to my faithful. Suzuki gives no shit about the loyalty of their consumers. Electric start to pick a polarizing feature, no you don't need it, but it's nice. EVERY OTHER BIKE HAS IT, put it on show you give a shit. Even if it does no performance good it demonstrates you are paying attention to the consumer....

soggy wrote:
You do have a good point.  But if they just added e start it would make the bike even heavier and people would hate more. They...

You do have a good point.  But if they just added e start it would make the bike even heavier and people would hate more. They need a full redesign to add e start imo. 

Good lord, Estart is just an example. My point is make an attempt...

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wrc777
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1/31/2023 7:12pm

They won’t even update the too stiff springs on the 250 or put a standard shock on the 450. 

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Sandusky26
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2/1/2023 1:33am
TeamGreen wrote:
I’d just like to know if ANY of the other race engines on the other team bikes are making 40 ft-lbs…?  ‘Cause, I know that the yellow...

I’d just like to know if ANY of the other race engines on the other team bikes are making 40 ft-lbs…? 

‘Cause, I know that the yellow bike is! 
Laughing

That's why it sounds like a SBC.

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2/1/2023 4:00am
Spoonguy wrote:
It's not that the bike isn't capable, it's that Suzuki trades on your loyalty as a consumer and makes no attempts to improve the product despite...

It's not that the bike isn't capable, it's that Suzuki trades on your loyalty as a consumer and makes no attempts to improve the product despite your loyalty and money. I own a business, I know my customers work hard for their money, I constantly search for ways to increase my value to my faithful. Suzuki gives no shit about the loyalty of their consumers. Electric start to pick a polarizing feature, no you don't need it, but it's nice. EVERY OTHER BIKE HAS IT, put it on show you give a shit. Even if it does no performance good it demonstrates you are paying attention to the consumer....

soggy wrote:
You do have a good point.  But if they just added e start it would make the bike even heavier and people would hate more. They...

You do have a good point.  But if they just added e start it would make the bike even heavier and people would hate more. They need a full redesign to add e start imo. 

Spoonguy wrote:

Good lord, Estart is just an example. My point is make an attempt...

All ball busting aside, I completely agree with you. They have people willing to fight to the death on keyboards all across the internet yet they make no improvements to the bike. Cant even argue price point right now. Can walk out the door with a brand new Kawi for basically the same price as a Suzuki.

Before the warriors chime in.....

The Bike DOESNT NEED IMPROVEMENTS BRO!!!!

99% of people cant ride it to its full potential!!!

Blahhhhh blahhhhh blahhh

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The Shop

Coughlin639
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2/1/2023 4:34am

As much as I agree about Suzuki not dumping money into the bike to fix the little things it needs such as the spring rate on the 250 or valving improvements to the BFRC, did you think that maybe the magazines and keyboard warriors are part of the reason why the bikes don't sell? Sure, the bike finished last in all the shootouts, but when I was looking to buy mine, it checked every box I was looking for regardless of where it placed but how many people see the position it placed and just immediately think "it sucks".

Plus, how many guys on here just relentlessly shit on the bike all day like even though they've never ridden one? Maybe it's not a great bike for the hardcore A rider, but at the local level it's more bike than almost anyone can use, and you know how many KTM's I've lined up next to that couldn't start because it was 35° and their battery was dead? Unless my leg is broken, my bike starts

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Spoonguy
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2/1/2023 6:22am

Why buy a new bike when you can buy a used one exactly like it, three - four years old. Or why replace yours if the new ones are no different.

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wrc777
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People like new stuff. Ktm made significant updates (improvements) to their forks in 2021 two years after they launched that model. They appear to at least care about the optics. Suzuki doesn’t. Should this influence your purchasing decision? That is up to each individual. The Suzuki is not a good buy if it needs a revalve and respring and the kawi doesn’t. Right now as someone else posted the kawi (250 and 450) is cheaper to buy new. 

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Spoonguy
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2/1/2023 7:01am

Planned obsolescence...

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2/1/2023 7:13am
wrc777 wrote:
People like new stuff. Ktm made significant updates (improvements) to their forks in 2021 two years after they launched that model. They appear to at least...

People like new stuff. Ktm made significant updates (improvements) to their forks in 2021 two years after they launched that model. They appear to at least care about the optics. Suzuki doesn’t. Should this influence your purchasing decision? That is up to each individual. The Suzuki is not a good buy if it needs a revalve and respring and the kawi doesn’t. Right now as someone else posted the kawi (250 and 450) is cheaper to buy new. 

If you’re buying a new bike and not revalving respringing you would never know the difference anyway, I’ll buy another Suzuki over the current gen Kawi any day of the week, strictly based on reliability and durability. A bike being “bad” is perception, durability and quality control can’t be argued and the Kawi is far behind here. This is reflected in the price 

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seth505
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2/1/2023 7:51am
Spoonguy wrote:
Why buy a new bike when you can buy a used one exactly like it, three - four years old. Or why replace yours if the...

Why buy a new bike when you can buy a used one exactly like it, three - four years old. Or why replace yours if the new ones are no different.

Good point, and it's actually a nice option to have IMO, if you like the bike.  A low hour used bike is going to provide the same experience out on the track as the brand new off the showroom bike.  I remember when I went from my 2013 KTM to a 2017, I wanted no part to ever be on the 2013 again. If you don't gel with the current Suzuki then it sucks they haven't changed but if you do then you can stock up on some parts and ride happily into the sunset.

Jrey2
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2/1/2023 8:31am
Spoonguy wrote:
It is fitting Roczen is on Suzukis. Both have great racing histories and can contend on any day. But the writing is on the wall, racing...

It is fitting Roczen is on Suzukis. Both have great racing histories and can contend on any day. But the writing is on the wall, racing is not their foremost interest anymore. 

Worst post of the year so far. Step away from the keyboard sir.

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2/1/2023 9:28am Edited Date/Time 2/1/2023 9:34am

He still doesn't look as comfy on the bike as he did on the Honda. 

wrc777 wrote:

I haven’t seen the anchor come out mid race this year like it did all last year. 

He also won a race by this time last year.  He looks good on the bike, but doesn't have that smooth Kenny flow that he usually...

He also won a race by this time last year. 

He looks good on the bike, but doesn't have that smooth Kenny flow that he usually has. 

Kenny Through three rounds:

2022 HRC: 5th overall; avg finish:7; 42 points

2023 HEP: 4th overall; avg finish:4; 48 points

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ADynes
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2/1/2023 9:43am

Suzuki should build a 350; a lower cost alternative to the Austrian offerings. I bet they'd sell a ton of em

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Sandusky26
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2/1/2023 9:51am
wrc777 wrote:
People like new stuff. Ktm made significant updates (improvements) to their forks in 2021 two years after they launched that model. They appear to at least...

People like new stuff. Ktm made significant updates (improvements) to their forks in 2021 two years after they launched that model. They appear to at least care about the optics. Suzuki doesn’t. Should this influence your purchasing decision? That is up to each individual. The Suzuki is not a good buy if it needs a revalve and respring and the kawi doesn’t. Right now as someone else posted the kawi (250 and 450) is cheaper to buy new. 

My stock Kawi forks were worse than the OEM Suzuki shock. 

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fourfourone
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2/1/2023 11:36am
wrc777 wrote:

I haven’t seen the anchor come out mid race this year like it did all last year. 

He also won a race by this time last year.  He looks good on the bike, but doesn't have that smooth Kenny flow that he usually...

He also won a race by this time last year. 

He looks good on the bike, but doesn't have that smooth Kenny flow that he usually has. 

Kenny Through three rounds:

2022 HRC: 5th overall; avg finish:7; 42 points

2023 HEP: 4th overall; avg finish:4; 48 points

I know that. Not what I was referencing. 

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motodad805
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2/1/2023 1:51pm

There’s a whole generation of kids who have never seen a yellow bike in the top 5 in the SX premier class. I think Kenny is doing great and probably 1 or 2 testing sessions from full potential. I wouldn’t count him out of a win or 2 this year.

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kiwifan
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2/1/2023 10:36pm

Personally I think he will start tapering off his results from now on, but happy to be proven wrong.

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2/2/2023 5:30am
motodad805 wrote:
There’s a whole generation of kids who have never seen a yellow bike in the top 5 in the SX premier class. I think Kenny is...

There’s a whole generation of kids who have never seen a yellow bike in the top 5 in the SX premier class. I think Kenny is doing great and probably 1 or 2 testing sessions from full potential. I wouldn’t count him out of a win or 2 this year.

There’s grown men that haven’t seen Honda win a premier class championship lol 

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Jonny Crash
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2/2/2023 6:53am
motodad805 wrote:
There’s a whole generation of kids who have never seen a yellow bike in the top 5 in the SX premier class. I think Kenny is...

There’s a whole generation of kids who have never seen a yellow bike in the top 5 in the SX premier class. I think Kenny is doing great and probably 1 or 2 testing sessions from full potential. I wouldn’t count him out of a win or 2 this year.

Chad Reed got a 3rd and a 5th in 2019. Did Bogle not get 2 holeshots last year aswell and lead a lap 

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wrc777
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2/2/2023 8:08am
motodad805 wrote:
There’s a whole generation of kids who have never seen a yellow bike in the top 5 in the SX premier class. I think Kenny is...

There’s a whole generation of kids who have never seen a yellow bike in the top 5 in the SX premier class. I think Kenny is doing great and probably 1 or 2 testing sessions from full potential. I wouldn’t count him out of a win or 2 this year.

There’s grown men that haven’t seen Honda win a premier class championship lol 

The 450 has never won a supercross championship. It only won a single outdoor title. 

Magoofan
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2/2/2023 9:56am
wrc777 wrote:
People like new stuff. Ktm made significant updates (improvements) to their forks in 2021 two years after they launched that model. They appear to at least...

People like new stuff. Ktm made significant updates (improvements) to their forks in 2021 two years after they launched that model. They appear to at least care about the optics. Suzuki doesn’t. Should this influence your purchasing decision? That is up to each individual. The Suzuki is not a good buy if it needs a revalve and respring and the kawi doesn’t. Right now as someone else posted the kawi (250 and 450) is cheaper to buy new. 

Marketing is behind people "liking" new stuff.         It's about "want" not "need". 

Marketing makes that fat, ugly dork guy think he can land a buxom babe because he drinks Budweiser.

Marketing makes you think you can win like Cooper Webb on that "brand new" 450.

 

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kiwifan
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2/4/2023 8:03pm
kiwifan wrote:

Personally I think he will start tapering off his results from now on, but happy to be proven wrong.

damn it happened a bit sooner than I thought, 8th is a disappointment after the last few rounds

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8tensolutions
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2/4/2023 8:07pm
kiwifan wrote:

Personally I think he will start tapering off his results from now on, but happy to be proven wrong.

kiwifan wrote:

damn it happened a bit sooner than I thought, 8th is a disappointment after the last few rounds

Yep, I am sure the downvotes will come, but he will start making excuses anytime now about the bike and/or his health as he just got by Justin Cooper.  Nothing against Cooper, but Roczen in 8th is a disaster for him.....but looks strangely like last year.....and the year before.....and the year before.  Color of the bike doesn't matter and while we are at it, that Honda sure looks like shit with Sexton riding it.

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Spoonguy
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2/5/2023 4:20am
wrc777 wrote:
People like new stuff. Ktm made significant updates (improvements) to their forks in 2021 two years after they launched that model. They appear to at least...

People like new stuff. Ktm made significant updates (improvements) to their forks in 2021 two years after they launched that model. They appear to at least care about the optics. Suzuki doesn’t. Should this influence your purchasing decision? That is up to each individual. The Suzuki is not a good buy if it needs a revalve and respring and the kawi doesn’t. Right now as someone else posted the kawi (250 and 450) is cheaper to buy new. 

Magoofan wrote:
Marketing is behind people "liking" new stuff.         It's about "want" not "need".  Marketing makes that fat, ugly dork guy think he can land...

Marketing is behind people "liking" new stuff.         It's about "want" not "need". 

Marketing makes that fat, ugly dork guy think he can land a buxom babe because he drinks Budweiser.

Marketing makes you think you can win like Cooper Webb on that "brand new" 450.

 

Isn't marketing about making better, more useful products as well?

2/5/2023 4:33am
Spoonguy wrote:

Isn't marketing about making better, more useful products as well?

Well, it is supposed to be, but it doesn’t always work out like that- how many ‘new & improved’ bikes have we seen over the years that actually turned out to be not as good as the previous model? It happens..

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2/5/2023 4:34am
Spoonguy wrote:

Isn't marketing about making better, more useful products as well?

Well, it is supposed to be, but it doesn’t always work out like that- how many ‘new & improved’ bikes have we seen over the years...

Well, it is supposed to be, but it doesn’t always work out like that- how many ‘new & improved’ bikes have we seen over the years that actually turned out to be not as good as the previous model? It happens..

2003 YZ450

2009 CRF450

2010 YZ450

2013 CRF450

come to mind.

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2/5/2023 4:48am
kiwifan wrote:

Personally I think he will start tapering off his results from now on, but happy to be proven wrong.

kiwifan wrote:

damn it happened a bit sooner than I thought, 8th is a disappointment after the last few rounds

Yep, I am sure the downvotes will come, but he will start making excuses anytime now about the bike and/or his health as he just got...

Yep, I am sure the downvotes will come, but he will start making excuses anytime now about the bike and/or his health as he just got by Justin Cooper.  Nothing against Cooper, but Roczen in 8th is a disaster for him.....but looks strangely like last year.....and the year before.....and the year before.  Color of the bike doesn't matter and while we are at it, that Honda sure looks like shit with Sexton riding it.

In hindsight I question his mental strength(racing wise) even before his almost career ending injury, he's never been that consistent in SX, yes his first few races on Honda he looked like "the guy" but that was only a couple of rounds, this is SX judgement only it just seems he wants to be in his own race by himself or something I don't know...

It can't be fitness because he's done 30min motos comfortably in recent years.

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Spoonguy
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2/5/2023 12:19pm
Spoonguy wrote:

Isn't marketing about making better, more useful products as well?

Well, it is supposed to be, but it doesn’t always work out like that- how many ‘new & improved’ bikes have we seen over the years...

Well, it is supposed to be, but it doesn’t always work out like that- how many ‘new & improved’ bikes have we seen over the years that actually turned out to be not as good as the previous model? It happens..

So the manufacturers of products conspire to sell us inferior products to previous models rather than improve them? This is what you propose? For what purpose would this accomplish for any manufacturer?

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2/5/2023 1:02pm
In hindsight I question his mental strength(racing wise) even before his almost career ending injury, he's never been that consistent in SX, yes his first few...

In hindsight I question his mental strength(racing wise) even before his almost career ending injury, he's never been that consistent in SX, yes his first few races on Honda he looked like "the guy" but that was only a couple of rounds, this is SX judgement only it just seems he wants to be in his own race by himself or something I don't know...

It can't be fitness because he's done 30min motos comfortably in recent years.

Agreed. KRoc has the tendency to place blame on outside influences (the bike, his health, etc.) rather than considering that he may be the one constant in every scenario. 

Not too long ago, Eli Tomac's biggest hurdles were mental. He has very impressively gotten out of his own head, and, at the age of 30, is at the peak of his career. 

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Spoonguy
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2/5/2023 3:04pm
In hindsight I question his mental strength(racing wise) even before his almost career ending injury, he's never been that consistent in SX, yes his first few...

In hindsight I question his mental strength(racing wise) even before his almost career ending injury, he's never been that consistent in SX, yes his first few races on Honda he looked like "the guy" but that was only a couple of rounds, this is SX judgement only it just seems he wants to be in his own race by himself or something I don't know...

It can't be fitness because he's done 30min motos comfortably in recent years.

Agreed. KRoc has the tendency to place blame on outside influences (the bike, his health, etc.) rather than considering that he may be the one constant...

Agreed. KRoc has the tendency to place blame on outside influences (the bike, his health, etc.) rather than considering that he may be the one constant in every scenario. 

Not too long ago, Eli Tomac's biggest hurdles were mental. He has very impressively gotten out of his own head, and, at the age of 30, is at the peak of his career. 

Give KR credit 2 world and national championships, but like the bike he is on and the manufacturer he represents, he doesn't really care about current results so much as past glories. Like he has said " it's just a motorcycle race." Great past champion though, glad he is filling up the ranks now, great battle with 450 rookie Justin Cooper in Texas. 

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