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Did he not say himself that he struggled with arm pump that stop his charges after a mistake and with teaming back up with his old suspension guy he figured it out with setup
Amazing what happens when your team lets you go in the direction you want with suspension. Bike looks like a marchmallow.
He’s a made guy now like a mafia boss. He’s beaten everyone on the gate enough times over the years to know when he lines up mentally he has them beat already. Coop might need more convincing though.
Yeah I caught that too at the mxdn he looked like he was happy and having fun. This year you can see it in his eyes . He knows he has it. Eli is a Scorpio once things fall into place bike, people, team,etc you can’t loose. MC , Everts r also. RC and Stewart r very close.
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He sure is smiling more now. Even when we won on the Kawasaki, he looked pissed.
I definitely agree Tomac never seeed like the right fit on the kawi. The way he rode that honda in outdoors with all time speed and perfect finesse, vs having to manhandle the kawi just never seemed right. Hes an animal so he can brute force his way to a championship, but his technical perfection is really shining through again on the yamaha.
More consistent starts have been the biggest change. Only having to race through 3 to 5 riders instead of 9 makes for a completely different approach to how furiously you have to charge, mental/physical energy expended, and what level of risk you need to take.
Right now youre kinda seeing Ferrandis and Anderson look like old Tomac: fast as hell but more time spent scrapping with also-rans or tipping over muddying their results.
The frame is only one piece of the puzzle. Glad the crew here did not debate the issue to death. If any allowable chane is used to make any rider more comfortable, more power to the team. Mc Grath raced a 1993 frame until the aluminum frame said he could not.
I tend to agree with this.
Its almost like you have to be a certain way to be a Kawi Guy and or a Honda Guy... Seems like those two brands in particular to their race teams are very specific.
He never beat RD to one championship. How can you ever put him ahead. ( I don't count last yr as RD was retired for 5 /6 years)
Eli was a generation behind racing against Dungey, but will finish on similar title count with more speed, more what-ifs, but probably the tarnish of having been seen to not beat him in 17, so hard to argue he’s higher….
But seriously, how in the flying popsicle sticks is it a toss up between RV and Dungey?
RD is one year behind RV, was there for every single one of RV’s 9 major titles, the second most pro-titles all time. 9 times you get beat by a dude and it’s a toss up? Nah.
Also, underrated part of the 17/18/19 SX title stories, which he probably should have won… a number of mechanicals and weird shit exerting some do or die like pressure to a guy who was desperately trying to get it done… and in 17 particularly, against a metronome who doesn’t really let you make mistakes let alone dnfs or low scores.
Eli is 30 and Dungey is 33. Not exactly a generation behind.
Tomac raced against Dungey for 3.5 years and then Ryan retired.
This is Tomac's 10th year in the 450 class.
Ryan raced the 450 class for 7.5 years, retired, and came back for outdoors in '22.
Eli might end up with a similar title count and more wins, but he also raced longer than Dungey.
Anyway, I thought it would be cool to compare their career stats.
Eli Tomac Career Stats (Current excluding 2023)
1x 250 SX West Champion
1x 250 MX Champion
4x 450 MX Champion
2x 450 SX Champion
7x 2nd place in points standings
4x 3rd place in points standings
250 SX CLASS
29 Races
19 Podiums
10 - Wins
5 - 2nd place
4 - 3rd place
450 SX CLASS
147 Races
83 Podiums
44 - Wins
23 - 2nd place
16 - 3rd place
SX CAREER
Total Races: 176
Total Podiums: 102
Total Wins: 54
2nd Place: 28
3rd Place: 20
250 MX CLASS
47 Races
25 Podiums
12 - Wins
7 - 2nd place
6 - 3rd place
450 MX CLASS
92 Races
71 Podiums
32 - Wins
20 - 2nd place
19 - 3rd place
MX CAREER
Total Races: 139
Total Podiums: 96
Total Wins: 44
2nd Place: 27
3rd Place: 25
SX & MX COMBINED
Total Races: 315
Total Podiums: 198
Total Wins: 98
2nd Place: 55
3rd Place: 45
Ryan Dungey Career Stats
1x 250 SX West Champion
1x 250 MX Champion
3x 450 MX Champion
4x 450 SX Champion
6x 2nd place in points standings
3x 3rd place in points standings
250 SX CLASS
25 Races
18 Podiums
12 - Wins
4 - 2nd place
2 - 3rd place
450 SX CLASS
134 Races
100 Podiums
34 - Wins
37 - 2nd place
29 - 3rd place
SX CAREER
Total Races: 159
Total Podiums: 118
Total Wins: 46
2nd Place: 41
3rd Place: 31
250 MX CLASS
37 Races
22 Podiums
7 - Wins
9 - 2nd place
6 - 3rd place
450 MX CLASS
87 Races
*75 excluding 2022
69 Podiums
39 - Wins
22 - 2nd place
8 - 3rd place
MX CAREER
Total Races: 124
*112 excluding 2022
Total Podiums: 91
Total Wins: 46
2nd Place: 31
3rd Place: 14
SX & MX COMBINED
Total Races: 283
*271 excluding 2022
Total Podiums: 209
Total Wins: 92
2nd Place: 72
3rd Place: 45
Some people age like a great wine. Others like milk.The pressure of the first SX title put him under enormous tension which made him not the most pleasant. I can understand. Everts was the same before his first 250 title.
I think like someone already said, having that monkey of his back winning the first championship was a good thing. Then his switch to Star made it even better.
Another thing to note is how he won on 3 different platforms. Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. He also nearly misses any races due to injuries. How many races did he miss? Apart from his huge shoulder injury in 2015, I can't recall him having major issues keeping him from the championship hunt and missing races. Thats the most impressive thing for me. He is racing 17 sx races, 12 outdoors, off season sx, MXONs (skipped a few) nearly every year since 2014. After this season that would be a decade. And he also had a 250 career of 4 seasons before that. Glad I could witness this legend.
Thanks for putting that together. People like to not give Dungey credit because he didn't beat Villo a ton but when you really go into the numbers, they are outstanding. Dude was a podium machine.
I agree that he doesn't get the credit he deserves. He won a lot and the stats don't lie.
Very impressive career!
And I’m not sure what people see when they say Dunge never had blazing speed. Like what?!
Pit Row
Sure, he might not have had the raw speed of James or Villopoto, but you don't rack up as many wins, podiums, titles as he did being a slouch on a dirt bike. There are plenty of riders that would kill to have a fraction of the success he achieved.
Age gap yeah but Eli moved up to race Dungey in 2014 and broke a collarbone pretty quickly right? Think he came back halfway through outdoors from memory but not sure how many SX races he rode.
By the Dunge already had three titles in that class and was pretty damn established. It’s not a total generation sure, but it’s a long time and a vet vs a newb in terms of experience.
Nice work with the numbers, assumed they’d be close overall. Looking back Eli not having those 3 titles is kind of a killer in all time rankings, especially as people see them more as mental meltdowns rather than a guy trying to get it done in hard circumstances - which is why I bring up the DNFs mechanicals and pants etc. Without that points pressure maybe he can relax through those a lot more.
I don’t care about his speed etc, unreal career and obviously won a lot, but it drives me nuts saying it was close between RV and Him.
You race your whole career and don’t beat a dude, that’s not close, and Rv won quite a few of those titles with races to spare…
No one says Reed was better than James which is a similar comparison.
Was Dungey established in the 450 class when Eli moved up, yes, but should the whole vet vs rookie thing be considered when talking about a rider's career and stats? I don't know.
Although not the norm, Dungey did win both the 450 SX and 450 MX titles in his rookie year and he was a championship contender every year from then on. Eli wasn't a consistent championship contender until year 3 and won his first 450 title in year 4. That said he did finish 2nd in the 450 SX championship in his second year.
Concerning Eli's 3 titles he could've had, the same could be said about Ryan if he hadn't run out of fuel, but that's all coulda, woulda, shoulda, and none of that matters in the record books.
Both are all-time and have had fantastic careers, but personally, I'm more impressed with Dungey than Tomac. He didn't go through the amateur ranks as a highly touted factory star, was given an opportunity, dedicated himself, and worked his way to a HOF career.
Now, I'm not saying that I'm not impressed with Tomac, because I am.
They just had different paths to success and I respect both.
Exactly. If you use the reason that Tomac didn’t beat Dungey so he can’t be considered better in the grand scheme, you can’t say Dungey is better than RV in the grand scheme. I’m not saying any of them are better than the other. Just pointing out the irony in that. And RV>RD.
I'll agree, the brake problem at Arlington in 2017 is ultimately what cost him the SX title points-wise, even if he did come apart in New Jersey. 2018 SX was him though, crashing out of A1 and having to miss Houston the next week. 2019 SX I don't think any mechanicals were to blame, he had the red plate after San Diego (probably red balls too after the lyme). He then goes 6-12-1-6 in the next 4 races while Webb goes 1-1-2-1 and that was it. The 12th at Arlington was truly bizarre.
I'm a big fan of Eli right from his rookie days, and the one thing I've always been impressed with is his streakiness. Once he's dialled in and motoring it is damn impressive. His 2nd half run in 2013 250 MX was incredible, starting in outside the top 10 almost every moto and just slamming his way to the front moto after moto, winning 11 out of the 12 final motos. His 5 moto run in 2015 MX was next level but cut short. His run from Arlington to East Rutherford in 2017 SX, his 2018 MX season in general, and last year 5 in a row in SX and that run in the MX series to get back level with Sexton.
One day I'd love to hear him explain his Kawi period from outdoors 2020 through 2021 with some detail, but we'll likely never hear it. To an outsider, it looked like the bike problems at the Loretta Lynn races just started a downslide with Kawi that could not be salvaged. I honestly think for most of 2021 he was just riding around at 90%. If the start was OK, or it was coming easy, he'd go for it but he was rarely if ever hanging it out like normal.
What year was the pants thing?
And the outdoor year Zach won he had three mechanicals I think in a shortened season just after he won the SX right? Often riders sorta have a come down after achieving some big feat.
The generation thing is tough –
Kenny beat Dungey first year out for him in MX and had a pretty handy speed advantage on him all year. He then made everyone look silly in 16.
Eli had maybe the clearest speed advantage ever in 2015 MX until he nuked himself and then from 2017 on I don't think anyone could say they were faster regardless of who won.
Kenny never got close on titles to Dungey obviously but those two outdoor titles he was clearly better. If he ended on close or similar titles maybe you give him that edge – Eli obviously had a better career and clear speed advantage but without that win over the older dude he overlapped it's hard to argue.
Much prefer watching Eli though, gonna be a shame to watch him and Kenny retire. Incredible riders to watch, so much technique!
2018 was the pants thing, running away with A1, throws it away and dings his shoulder and breaks his pants buckle. Has to miss Houston and that's all she wrote. Of all the years, that title was truly the one that got away.
Funny I think 17 was more so! Without the brake thing maybe there isn't the pressure...
His 2015 rides on the Honda was the fastest I've ever seen a person ride a dirtbike until the second moto at Thunder Valley. I was at Hangtown that year and it looked like he was racing C Class riders. It was insane.
I saw one of Ryno's IG videos this week and he mentioned a few different technique changes he has seen in Tomac. Saying his back is straighter, hips back and no longer overriding the motorcycle.
Post a reply to: Tomac, what changed?