Smaller whoops this season.

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12/29/2022 10:46am
No none got hurt? They ended Nichols season. I was at A1 last year and there was carnage all day in them.    last years whoops...

No none got hurt? They ended Nichols season. I was at A1 last year and there was carnage all day in them. 
 

last years whoops were bigger than normal. I like everyone want to see big whoops and massive quads, but the obstacles can’t become do or die either, especially since how SX has evolved into such high speed tracks. 

 

the obstacles can’t become do or die either, especially since how SX has evolved into such high speed tracks. 

Mic drop post IMO

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Gollum
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12/29/2022 10:52am
No none got hurt? They ended Nichols season. I was at A1 last year and there was carnage all day in them.    last years whoops...

No none got hurt? They ended Nichols season. I was at A1 last year and there was carnage all day in them. 
 

last years whoops were bigger than normal. I like everyone want to see big whoops and massive quads, but the obstacles can’t become do or die either, especially since how SX has evolved into such high speed tracks. 

 

the obstacles can’t become do or die either, especially since how SX has evolved into such high speed tracks. 

Mic drop post IMO

There's just too many bikes out on the track. The riders aren't used to riding totally beat down tracks with whoops basically knuckled out or rolled down after every race. The reality is a lot of the riders entering the race just don't belong out there. 
 

The 450 main should have a maximum of about 12-14 guys lining up. With 22 riders lining up, its still only 18 riders out there after the first lap crashes. But then of those 18, you're still left with 3-4 riders being lapped multiple times.

 

if they're going to send so many 450's out on a supercross track, at least send them out on a fresh prep

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Johnny Ringo
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12/29/2022 11:51am
No none got hurt? They ended Nichols season. I was at A1 last year and there was carnage all day in them.    last years whoops...

No none got hurt? They ended Nichols season. I was at A1 last year and there was carnage all day in them. 
 

last years whoops were bigger than normal. I like everyone want to see big whoops and massive quads, but the obstacles can’t become do or die either, especially since how SX has evolved into such high speed tracks. 

 

the obstacles can’t become do or die either, especially since how SX has evolved into such high speed tracks. 

Mic drop post IMO

So the solution is to make the whoops smaller, allowing speeds to be even higher? Brilliant 

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Dirt.Squirt
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12/29/2022 11:58am
gregyou wrote:
On the racer x preview it mentions multiple teams campaigning for smaller whoops.    Last years racing was good to watch hope they don’t give in...

On the racer x preview it mentions multiple teams campaigning for smaller whoops. 
 

Last years racing was good to watch hope they don’t give in and make them smaller and we just get to watch follow the leader 

Chad Reed just took his shirt off

Elle Reed**

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The Shop

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12/29/2022 12:16pm

So the solution is to make the whoops smaller, allowing speeds to be even higher? Brilliant 

Whoops don't have to be high speed as many have posted in this thread but I still look forward to more of your brilliant logic leaps.

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12/29/2022 12:20pm
Gollum wrote:
There's just too many bikes out on the track. The riders aren't used to riding totally beat down tracks with whoops basically knuckled out or rolled...

There's just too many bikes out on the track. The riders aren't used to riding totally beat down tracks with whoops basically knuckled out or rolled down after every race. The reality is a lot of the riders entering the race just don't belong out there. 
 

The 450 main should have a maximum of about 12-14 guys lining up. With 22 riders lining up, its still only 18 riders out there after the first lap crashes. But then of those 18, you're still left with 3-4 riders being lapped multiple times.

 

if they're going to send so many 450's out on a supercross track, at least send them out on a fresh prep

There are solutions for the lapped traffic issues like getting a black flag if you've been lapped twice.    Going to 22 rider fields was a great thing as it gives two more riders track time instead of watching from the sidelines.

Totally agree on the fresh prep issue.

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yzr250r
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12/29/2022 1:17pm

AMA Pro Supercross is the pinnacle of the sport, they should have the biggest whoops in all of dirt biking. The top guys practice tens of thousands of hours from about 2 or 3 years old, their suspension cost more than your pickup truck. Arenacross whoops are  bigger than the pro supercross. Whoops in the late 80's - early 90's were way bigger. I have seen local supercross/arenacross whoops bigger than this new era of supercross whoops!

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bigk218
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12/29/2022 3:57pm
bigk218 wrote:
All the track are the same.   the standard “supercross triple” hasn’t been exciting since the 125 days.  Every track has the same obstacle just in...

All the track are the same.   the standard “supercross triple” hasn’t been exciting since the 125 days.  Every track has the same obstacle just in slightly different order. 

This type of comment is always strange to me. The tracks are limited by space. What do you want different?    You could say it about...

This type of comment is always strange to me. The tracks are limited by space. What do you want different? 
 

You could say it about any sport. Football is always the same, it’s a run or pass play. Basketball is always the same they dribble up and down the court and shoot.  If anything, Supercross has more variety than any of the major sports. 

it’s not the size of the track. It’s the bs sub 1 min laps that hold these tracks back. It just the fact that all the all the obstacles are generic. Instead of the exact same supercross triple every weekend with the exact same takeoff and landing they should mix it up a little. Or the 3” to 5” step on step off. I know the riders  have 10 minutes to master the track but these are  some elite dudes 

 

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Gollum
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12/29/2022 4:29pm
bigk218 wrote:
it’s not the size of the track. It’s the bs sub 1 min laps that hold these tracks back. It just the fact that all the...

it’s not the size of the track. It’s the bs sub 1 min laps that hold these tracks back. It just the fact that all the all the obstacles are generic. Instead of the exact same supercross triple every weekend with the exact same takeoff and landing they should mix it up a little. Or the 3” to 5” step on step off. I know the riders  have 10 minutes to master the track but these are  some elite dudes 

 

I feel like they can't really even try to "spice up" the track too much. There will just be way too many injuries. 
 

Yeah some more complicated obstacles will look cool on paper but they will just have more separation between Tomac roczen and everyone else. Even a slightly more technical track will make the racing much less exciting and the fans will complain that the race was "boring."

 

Like it or not, people are not paying for tickets to watch one guy ride around out front for 20 minutes

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Johnny Ringo
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12/29/2022 5:56pm

Why not just do flat track

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Broseph
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12/29/2022 6:00pm
bigk218 wrote:
All the track are the same.   the standard “supercross triple” hasn’t been exciting since the 125 days.  Every track has the same obstacle just in...

All the track are the same.   the standard “supercross triple” hasn’t been exciting since the 125 days.  Every track has the same obstacle just in slightly different order. 

This type of comment is always strange to me. The tracks are limited by space. What do you want different?    You could say it about...

This type of comment is always strange to me. The tracks are limited by space. What do you want different? 
 

You could say it about any sport. Football is always the same, it’s a run or pass play. Basketball is always the same they dribble up and down the court and shoot.  If anything, Supercross has more variety than any of the major sports. 

bigk218 wrote:
it’s not the size of the track. It’s the bs sub 1 min laps that hold these tracks back. It just the fact that all the...

it’s not the size of the track. It’s the bs sub 1 min laps that hold these tracks back. It just the fact that all the all the obstacles are generic. Instead of the exact same supercross triple every weekend with the exact same takeoff and landing they should mix it up a little. Or the 3” to 5” step on step off. I know the riders  have 10 minutes to master the track but these are  some elite dudes 

 

Wall jumps. Wall jumps everywhere. 

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lumpy790
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12/31/2022 11:45am
This type of comment is always strange to me. The tracks are limited by space. What do you want different?    You could say it about...

This type of comment is always strange to me. The tracks are limited by space. What do you want different? 
 

You could say it about any sport. Football is always the same, it’s a run or pass play. Basketball is always the same they dribble up and down the court and shoot.  If anything, Supercross has more variety than any of the major sports. 

bigk218 wrote:
it’s not the size of the track. It’s the bs sub 1 min laps that hold these tracks back. It just the fact that all the...

it’s not the size of the track. It’s the bs sub 1 min laps that hold these tracks back. It just the fact that all the all the obstacles are generic. Instead of the exact same supercross triple every weekend with the exact same takeoff and landing they should mix it up a little. Or the 3” to 5” step on step off. I know the riders  have 10 minutes to master the track but these are  some elite dudes 

 

Broseph wrote:

Wall jumps. Wall jumps everywhere. 

And not a set of woops to blitz 😆 

12/31/2022 11:49am Edited Date/Time 12/31/2022 11:50am

I’m all for big whoops. Tracks become to stream lined with dart fish and bike tech these days. it’s a true skill to blitz a set of big gnarly whoops, and bigger whoops result in slower speeds through them. That’s just a fact. I understand no one likes seeing guys get carted off, but at what point do you stop simplifying tracks for a 60+hp bike to go even faster on and have even bigger crashes. The biggest problem is the bikes are just too fast, but that ship has sailed there. Keep the whoops big, keep the skill alive, that’s what separates really good riders from greats. 

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8tensolutions
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12/31/2022 12:26pm
I’m all for big whoops. Tracks become to stream lined with dart fish and bike tech these days. it’s a true skill to blitz a set...

I’m all for big whoops. Tracks become to stream lined with dart fish and bike tech these days. it’s a true skill to blitz a set of big gnarly whoops, and bigger whoops result in slower speeds through them. That’s just a fact. I understand no one likes seeing guys get carted off, but at what point do you stop simplifying tracks for a 60+hp bike to go even faster on and have even bigger crashes. The biggest problem is the bikes are just too fast, but that ship has sailed there. Keep the whoops big, keep the skill alive, that’s what separates really good riders from greats. 

I agree and would argue we see far more injuries from rhythm sections and step on/offs.  Roczen, Villopoto, Reed, and Webb right off the top of my head.  Whoops all come down to the right hand and they control how fast they go into them.  Look at Musquin.....he has been very successful but how strong could he be if was as fast as Reed or Craig in whoops?  

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wreckitrandy
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12/31/2022 1:26pm
HonDawg17 wrote:
Just put the same whoops as last year. They actually separated guys and weren't as bad as everyone is letting on. Just need to be smart...

Just put the same whoops as last year. They actually separated guys and weren't as bad as everyone is letting on. Just need to be smart, sack up, grab 4th, and pin it!

Right on Ellie...

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ProKawi24
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12/31/2022 1:58pm

Obviously not everyone will agree on a topic like this but personally I prefer tall, well-spaced whoops right out of a bowl turn. Keeps the speed down a bit and having a bowl turn before allows lots of opportunities for block passes and/or 2 riders to enter at the same time and really see who has the skill.  It's boring to see guys go flying through a short set like simple braking bumps plus the higher speed means any little mistake really can end with serious injury. 

It will never happen but I'd love to see whoops like the ones in that Pastrana video at his home track on a 125. They were massive and he was skimming but still not going very fast because of how big they were. You're pretty much guaranteed to wreck if timing isn't perfect but I'd much rather go over the bars at 10mph than 20+. 

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bigk218
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12/31/2022 3:15pm
bigk218 wrote:
it’s not the size of the track. It’s the bs sub 1 min laps that hold these tracks back. It just the fact that all the...

it’s not the size of the track. It’s the bs sub 1 min laps that hold these tracks back. It just the fact that all the all the obstacles are generic. Instead of the exact same supercross triple every weekend with the exact same takeoff and landing they should mix it up a little. Or the 3” to 5” step on step off. I know the riders  have 10 minutes to master the track but these are  some elite dudes 

 

Gollum wrote:
I feel like they can't really even try to "spice up" the track too much. There will just be way too many injuries.    Yeah some...

I feel like they can't really even try to "spice up" the track too much. There will just be way too many injuries. 
 

Yeah some more complicated obstacles will look cool on paper but they will just have more separation between Tomac roczen and everyone else. Even a slightly more technical track will make the racing much less exciting and the fans will complain that the race was "boring."

 

Like it or not, people are not paying for tickets to watch one guy ride around out front for 20 minutes

Fair point.  As a fan I’m just waiting for that one obstacle where I’m like “wow I’ve never seen that before”. 

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12/31/2022 3:46pm

Going off of the assumption here, but campagning for smaller whoops would only make me expect there to be LARGER whoops this season, just for the simple fact of realtime results to show who is in charge no matter the complaints and compliments.

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wreckitrandy
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12/31/2022 6:02pm
Going off of the assumption here, but campagning for smaller whoops would only make me expect there to be LARGER whoops this season, just for the...

Going off of the assumption here, but campagning for smaller whoops would only make me expect there to be LARGER whoops this season, just for the simple fact of realtime results to show who is in charge no matter the complaints and compliments.

Clearly, you have no concept of who pulls the strings in this sport. There's one guy with the horsepower to make things happen. I mean, do the math. Who has the sauce to make sure Herlings doesn't race desNations? That his guy is on the French team? Coincidence you say? You notice how low of a profile he has maintained since the race? Face it, there can only be one bull of the woods.... 

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12/31/2022 6:52pm
Going off of the assumption here, but campagning for smaller whoops would only make me expect there to be LARGER whoops this season, just for the...

Going off of the assumption here, but campagning for smaller whoops would only make me expect there to be LARGER whoops this season, just for the simple fact of realtime results to show who is in charge no matter the complaints and compliments.

Clearly, you have no concept of who pulls the strings in this sport. There's one guy with the horsepower to make things happen. I mean, do...

Clearly, you have no concept of who pulls the strings in this sport. There's one guy with the horsepower to make things happen. I mean, do the math. Who has the sauce to make sure Herlings doesn't race desNations? That his guy is on the French team? Coincidence you say? You notice how low of a profile he has maintained since the race? Face it, there can only be one bull of the woods.... 

Who is the puppet master? 

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Vet57
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1/1/2023 8:36am Edited Date/Time 1/1/2023 8:36am

May have to adjust the clickers a little though.

 

 

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Broseph
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1/1/2023 10:15am

There are so many more obstacles that dirt bikes are capable of traversing other than the 4 or 5 that get repeated at every SX round.

How about a set of low whoops around a sweeping corner? Desert race style!

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tomlopez
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1/1/2023 11:08am

The key to designing tracks that create separation between riders is by making more awkward rhythm sections. They're called rhythm sections because it's supposed to be a challenge for the racers to find a rhythm in them. Most modern rhythm sections are all smooth and spaced out in a manner in which it is easy for any top-10 rider to get through them smoothly. 

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MXMattii
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1/1/2023 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 1/1/2023 6:15pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:

If they can build them like the Bercy whoops I think we'd be in a good spot. I know, different builders... Just a reference.

Indeed, the first one there is helping you to gain speed. In the USA SX the first one is just like all the others a bubble. It's not very clear on this video, but the first one in most French Supercrosses is that the first whoop is more a ramp setting you up for the huge, sick sets of whoop-die-doos. So indeed they should build the first one differently instead of shaping them down, building a plateau where they can make some speed for a long line of monster whoops is also a possibility.
 

 

 

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CPR
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1/1/2023 6:38pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:

If they can build them like the Bercy whoops I think we'd be in a good spot. I know, different builders... Just a reference.

MXMattii wrote:
Indeed, the first one there is helping you to gain speed. In the USA SX the first one is just like all the others a bubble...

Indeed, the first one there is helping you to gain speed. In the USA SX the first one is just like all the others a bubble. It's not very clear on this video, but the first one in most French Supercrosses is that the first whoop is more a ramp setting you up for the huge, sick sets of whoop-die-doos. So indeed they should build the first one differently instead of shaping them down, building a plateau where they can make some speed for a long line of monster whoops is also a possibility.
 

 

 

They were good whoops, being rounded and flatter on top, instead of peaky helps.

Also notice whoop masters Roczen and Brayton carried the front wheel over the first whoop, which was faster and smoother.

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1/1/2023 6:46pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:

If they can build them like the Bercy whoops I think we'd be in a good spot. I know, different builders... Just a reference.

MXMattii wrote:
Indeed, the first one there is helping you to gain speed. In the USA SX the first one is just like all the others a bubble...

Indeed, the first one there is helping you to gain speed. In the USA SX the first one is just like all the others a bubble. It's not very clear on this video, but the first one in most French Supercrosses is that the first whoop is more a ramp setting you up for the huge, sick sets of whoop-die-doos. So indeed they should build the first one differently instead of shaping them down, building a plateau where they can make some speed for a long line of monster whoops is also a possibility.
 

 

 

First whoop in a whoop pad is always a starter whoop. 

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bigk218
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1/1/2023 7:50pm
Broseph wrote:
There are so many more obstacles that dirt bikes are capable of traversing other than the 4 or 5 that get repeated at every SX round...

There are so many more obstacles that dirt bikes are capable of traversing other than the 4 or 5 that get repeated at every SX round.

How about a set of low whoops around a sweeping corner? Desert race style!

Yeah. It’s pathetic whoops, supercross triple, finishline double, and the exact same step on step off.  These riders are robots.  Slow the tracks down, build new obstacles, make the riders think outside the box and get rid of 45 second lap times. 

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JMX82
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1/2/2023 4:47am

Bring back proper sized whoops to really slow down the speeds

 

  

1/2/2023 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 1/2/2023 2:37pm
Broseph wrote:
There are so many more obstacles that dirt bikes are capable of traversing other than the 4 or 5 that get repeated at every SX round...

There are so many more obstacles that dirt bikes are capable of traversing other than the 4 or 5 that get repeated at every SX round.

How about a set of low whoops around a sweeping corner? Desert race style!

bigk218 wrote:
Yeah. It’s pathetic whoops, supercross triple, finishline double, and the exact same step on step off.  These riders are robots.  Slow the tracks down, build new...

Yeah. It’s pathetic whoops, supercross triple, finishline double, and the exact same step on step off.  These riders are robots.  Slow the tracks down, build new obstacles, make the riders think outside the box and get rid of 45 second lap times. 

The biggest problems Dirt Wurx runs into is limitations from Feld for safety. They have to leave x amount of space around the track, can’t have whoops and triples in certain parts of the track (hot topic for awhile), piping for tv and all the electrical, finish line structure, the beast, staging/entry, no bowl turns on certain parts of the track, the nets take up a lot of space for hauling it, a lot of track desgins get modified by teams/Feld as well. Everyone has to sign off on them. It’s not as simple as just making new obstacles unfortunately, it’s pretty insane what goes into track building, then you only have 2-3 days to build them in time for press day. 

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